Igniting Imagination

We kick off Season 7 of the Igniting Imagination podcast in conversation with pastor and social entrepreneur Tim Soerens about the immense opportunity to reenergize the church today by daring to be “faithfully present” to what God imagines for us in our churches, our neighborhoods, and in our daily lives. The challenges the church faces today are very real, yet Tim shows us a path forward that blends an active spiritual journey with the material realities of daily life. Tim provides insights from his work as well as his experience as a dad with three children. In this conversation we discuss:The purpose of the church (7:03)Why we are at a crossroads in the life of the church (9:53)‘What is God’s dream right here in my neighborhood and right here in my church, right now?’ (13:25)The church is both events in a building at set times AND people out in their neighborhoods every day. (17:01)Our spiritual formation is happening to us all the time(21:03)How we can avoid a “path of despair” and move the church forward (25:00)How Tim puts this into action in his own daily life, with his three children. (30:13)Tim’s own continual process of spiritual formation and how he lives it on a daily basis. (35:13)About Tim Soerens Tim Soerens is a pastor, social entrepreneur, and co-founding director of the Parish Collective, a growing network and global movement of Christians reimagining what it means to be church in, with and for the neighborhood. He’s the author of Everywhere You Look, Discovering the Church Right Where You Are and co-author of The New Parish: How Neighborhood Churches Transform Mission, Discipleship and Community. He co-founded Neighborhood Economics which catalyzes entrepreneurship as a path to wealth for marginalized communities and has helped to raise over 3 million dollars. With a global reach, Tim speaks to organizations and denominations across the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand. Show NotesMore information about Tim Soerens can be found on his website.Tim Soerens is the author of Everywhere You Look, Discovering the Church Right Where You Are.This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

This season on Igniting Imagination host Lisa Greenwood, co-host Tim Soerens, and special guests explore spiritual formation: what is formation and what is the church’s role in formation? Join our email, contact us, and find more resources from Leadership Ministry at tmf-fdn.org

We conclude our season on Jacob’s Bones (the core truths, values and practices to carry forward in the new church) in the wilderness where identity and purpose can become clear. Bishop Palmer reflects on the gifts of this wilderness time in the church and through his no-nonsense, compelling way, challenges the church to move beyond navel-gazing to face out to the world. This inspired and hope-filled conversation invites us to consider what it really means to be the church today. Bishop Palmer embodies the passion and possibility of the church’s bold witness for the present and future church. What will be your bold witness for the church?   In this conversation:  Lisa and Gil answer the question: “What do you hope is true about the church 20-30 years from now?” (01:29) Bishop Palmer reflects on the gifts of wilderness (09:43) What Bishop Palmer means when he says the church “campaigned to be chaplains of the middle class” (16:34) Helping the church face out to the world (22:41) “We overvalued being respected and being nice” (32:22) Bishop Palmer talks racism, mass incarceration, poverty (37:44) What Bishop Palmer hopes is true about the church in 20-30 years (52:19)   QUOTES “The fact that there are many natural born leaders that are incarcerated, how are we tapping that resource to learn more about leadership? And how are we making room for them in the pew, in the life of the church?” -Bishop Gregory Palmer [50:16] “I believe the Gospel is large enough to have whether you want to say multiple angles of view or a wide angle of view.” -Bishop Gregory Palmer [55:26]   Bishop Gregory Palmer​’s bio Bishop Palmer is the Resident Bishop of the West Ohio Conference of The United Methodist Church. Born and reared in Philadelphia, Bishop Gregory Vaughn Palmer is a “child of the church,” the son of a retired United Methodist pastor and a schoolteacher in the Philadelphia Public School system. A graduate of Duke University Divinity School, Palmer was ordained a deacon in 1977. In 1981, he was elected to full membership and ordained an elder. Palmer also served as superintendent. He was elected to the episcopacy in 2000. He has served as president of the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry and president of the Council of Bishops and he is currently a member of the Standing Committee on Central Conference Matters and chair of the Comprehensive Africa Plan. He also is a board member of several organizations, including The United Methodist Publishing House, Methodist Theological School in Ohio, United Theological Seminary and OhioHealth. Married for 45 years to his wife Cynthia, they are the parents of two adult children, Monica and Aaron.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Bishop Palmer’s Podcast (with Bishop Easterling and Bishop McKee) is The Unfinished Church. Visit their website here: https://theunfinishedchurch.org Bishop Palmer’s Leadership Clinics are inspiring! Find out more here: https://www.westohioumc.org/clinics This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Andy Crouch believes that one of the biggest challenges of pastoral ministry right now is not being seduced by the false vision of human flourishing that our culture offers and that technology optimizes. “You’re not going to get to the Kingdom of God by providing these religious goods and services that your system has been set up to provide and that technology can help you optimize,” Crouch says. “You're only going to get there by finding ways to reinvest in small communities, small enough for people to actually be known and to actually encounter God together.” This conversation begins with a robust discussion of how we have displaced the need for authentic relationships with the ease of technology and concludes with real clarity for how leaders in the church can lead us back to true community. To be clear, Crouch is not saying to get rid of technology and devices, rather he shows us how to put them in their proper place in our church and world. Andy articulates a deeply thoughtful, challenging, and compelling vision for the church’s role in restoring true community and facilitating human flourishing in the world. We can’t wait for you to listen!   Our Leadership Ministry team has returned again and again to Andy’s book and to this conversation with him… here are some key points in this episode:  Gil reflects on Jacob’s Bones in light of the denominational divisions happening right now (01:36) Andy describes the false vision of human flourishing (12:18) The life we’re looking for, the true vision of human flourishing (15:20) Why there are no technological solutions to the problems technology has created (27:53) Putting tech in its proper place in our lives and in the church (30:32) Why Andy says “This is all very Wesleyan!” (34:30) Why the numbers 3 and 12 are SO important for leaders (42:42)   QUOTES “I think the task of every shepherd, whether you’re ordained or a lay shepherd like I am, is to find ways to circumvent the production system and get people into real relationships.” -Andy Crouch [33:57] “The problem is we think culture making requires scale because we think about the millions of consumers, but the actual creation of new culture happens in these tiny groups. And it’s because creation requires trust. It’s the most risky thing human beings do.” -Andy Crouch [48:40]   Andy Crouch’s bio Andy Crouch is the author of four books; he is also a partner for theology and culture at Praxis, an organization that works as a creative engine for redemptive entrepreneurship. For more than ten years, Crouch was a producer and then executive editor at Christianity Today. His work and writing have been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Time, Best Christian Writing, and Best Spiritual Writing.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Grace Church is the perfect name for the now large, multi-site, United Methodist congregation in Southwest Florida that Jorge Acevedo started two decades ago. “Help us be the church for people that nobody sees” has been the church’s focus and that is exactly the church they have become. Grace Church is taking the healing ministry of Jesus seriously by bringing together people, places, and processes that make it possible for those who are affected by addiction to heal–and Grace Church is leading the way as one of America’s most effective churches in recovery ministries. Jorge shares his own story of how God’s saving grace saved him from addiction and offers a rich theology of salvation and formation that is deeply moving and convicting. Do we have the courage as the church to create spaces for people who need help and healing?   In this conversation: Gil Rendle considers what resilience looks like for the church right now (01:01) Jorge shares his story of recovery from addiction and how his experience of God’s grace has shaped his ministry (10:27) What is the role of healing in Christian ministry? (14:50) Jorge’s conviction that spiritual leaders primarily do three things (18:39) Why Jorge says the “hardest thing for a spiritual leader to lead is themselves” and his wisdom for leading your life well (22:37) Creating a disciple-making culture (29:59) The depth at the heart of innovative ministry (38:09) The one question Jorge asked NT Wright that guides his vision for the church’s future (50:53)   QUOTES “Deep within our theology and the early practices of Methodist was this desire to see the goodness and the grace of God penetrate our addictions and our afflictions and compulsive behaviors.” -Jorge Acevedo [12:31] “So we believe that God is at work in every person in every human heart, but do we have the courage to join God in those spaces and in those places and amongst those people who may be very far from God?” -Jorge Acevedo [36:08]   Jorge Acevedo’s bio Jorge is the Lead Pastor at Grace Church, a multi-site, United Methodist congregation in Southwest Florida with three campuses.  Jorge is a 1984 graduate of Asbury College where he received a Bachelor of Arts Degree majoring in Bible. He is also a graduate of Asbury Theological Seminary with a Master of Divinity Degree. He is currently working on a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary focusing on building generative teams for congregational vitality and sustainability. He’s been a faithful United Methodist, serving for many years as a delegate to the General Conference; he also served on the Call to Action Steering Team and the Commission on a Way Forward. Jorge has co-authored and written many books, including: A Field Guide for Methodist Fresh Expressions, Neighboring and The Grace-Full Life: God’s All-Reaching, Soul-Saving, Character-Shaping, Never-Ending Love.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Find out more about Fresh Expressions here. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Gil Rendle says in the intro that this conversation with Father Greg Boyle is “one of the richest conversations I’ve ever been in.” How grateful we are to have recorded this beautiful and rich back and forth between Gil, Rev. Lisa Greenwood, Father Boyle and Rev. Justin Coleman! Father Boyle’s approach to gang intervention rehabilitation and re-entry at his organization Homeboy Industries is not really about providing services, although they do provide holistic services from education to tattoo removal. The real heart of the work is relationship and creating a culture of kinship, tenderness, and joy. Boyle returns again and again to the heart of God and the heart of Jesus, inviting us again and again to embrace our own belovedness and everyone else’s belovedness.   In this conversation… Gil shares the difference between the work of improving and the work of creating (01:06) The short game of trying experiments and the long game of deep institutional work (04:39) Father Boyle’s vocational journey that led him to start Homeboy Industries (16:41) Providing services vs being in relationship (22:35) The theology that guides Father Boyle (31:58) When there is so much grief and pain, how do you not get caught up in a constant cycle of desolation? (36:54) Creating a culture of the Gospel (42:03) Why Father Boyle says “Gang members have taught me everything of value.” (50:41)   QUOTES “We’re always getting ahead of ourselves, right? Just about tomorrow or lamenting what I did yesterday. Ouch. Why did I say that? And as opposed to staying anchored in the present moment. I think that’s where the joy is.” -Father Boyle [27:41] “Don’t just look at the services. Look at the language that’s being used. Look at the approach towards the other person.” -Rev. Coleman [48:54]   Father Greg Boyle’s bio Gregory Boyle is an American Jesuit priest and the founder of Homeboy Industries in Los Angeles, the largest gang-intervention, rehabilitation, and re-entry program in the world. He has received the California Peace Prize and been inducted into the California Hall of Fame. In 2014, the White House named Boyle a Champion of Change. He received the University of Notre Dame’s 2017 Laetare Medal, the oldest honor given to American Catholics. He is the acclaimed author of Tattoos on the Heart and Barking to the Choir.  The Whole Language is his third book, and all net proceeds go to Homeboy Industries.    Rev. Justin Coleman’s bio Justin grew up in Texas, and attended Southern Methodist University, graduating in 2000 with a major in religious studies.  He, too, was highly active in SMU’s Wesley Foundation, and served as Associate Pastor at SMU’s Wesley Foundation from 2001 to 2003 as he began seminary studies at SMU’s Perkins School of Theology.  Justin transferred to Duke Divinity School in 2003 and graduated with a Master of Divinity in 2005. Justin’s first clergy appointment was to University UMC, as an intern in 2004 and then as Associate Pastor from 2005 to 2007.  In 2007, Justin was called back to the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, where he is an elder, and was appointed Associate Pastor at St. Luke’s United Methodist Church in Houston, Texas.  For six years from 2008 to 2014, Justin served as the Executive and Lead Pastor of the Gethsemane Campus of St. Luke’s Church and led it through a remarkable period of growth in ministry and service to its community.  From 2014 to June 2017 Justin served as the Chief Ministry Officer of the United Methodist Publishing House in Nashville, Tennessee.  During this time, he has also continued to frequently offer lectures, sermons, and lead worship.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Find out more about Homeboy Industries here. Father Greg Boyle’s bestselling book is Tattoos on the Heart, his newest book is The Whole Language. All proceeds go to Homeboy Industries. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

“America’s crisis of despair crashed into my life while I was getting paid to think about joy,” is how Dr. Angela Gorrell begins her book on joy and that is where we begin our conversation. What is authentic joy and how do you experience joy when there is so much to NOT be joyful about? One key, says Dr. Gorrell, is to recognize joy as a gift, like grace, and not something you can pursue like the “choose joy” coffee mugs and wall hangings imply. This episode includes a dynamic discussion between Lisa and Gil about the “we” and “I” culture that carries into their conversation with Angela: what are the communal and individual aspects of joy and ultimately: what is the church’s role in cultivating space for people to experience and receive joy?   What to listen for Lisa and Gil discuss the “I” based culture and the “we” based culture (00:54) and what the church has to offer How despair came crashing into Angela’s life (12:54) Joy as a gift, not something you can choose (18:30) Gil wonders if we do have to choose to be open to joy for the gift to be received (26:12) How we all have a “flashlight” to look for truth, beauty, goodness (28:37) What’s the role of the church in cultivating joy? (36:12) The Future of Church Project (42:38)   QUOTES “Joy is about open hands. It’s about a posture that we have in the world. It’s about a readiness.” -Dr. Angela Gorrell [22:12] “We can't receive a gift if our hands are closed.” -Dr. Angela Gorrell [28:08]   Angela Gorrell’s Bio Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell joined Baylor's George W. Truett Theological Seminary in Fall 2019 as Assistant Professor of Practical Theology. Prior to joining the faculty at Baylor University, she was an Associate Research Scholar at the Yale Center for Faith & Culture, working on the Theology of Joy and the Good Life Project, and a lecturer in Divinity and Humanities at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. She is an ordained pastor with 14 years of ministry experience.  Dr. Gorrell is passionate about finding issues that matter to people and shining the light of the Gospel on them. She is the author of always on: practicing faith in a new media landscapeand a new book, The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found, which shares findings of the joy project while addressing America’s opioid and suicide crises. Dr. Gorrell’s expertise is in the areas of theology and contemporary culture, education and formation, meaning-making, joy, new media, and youth and emerging adults. Dr. Gorrell regularly consults, speaks, and leads workshops and retreats on her research and areas of expertise.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Visit Angela’s Gorrell’s website for more information about her work including a free book discussion guide, and information about her speaking and consulting.  Angela’s Gorrell book is The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

What better way to start our season about the values the church must carry forward into the future than with the ‘gadfly of the church,’ Bishop Will Willimon! Co-host Gil Rendle points out that as the gadfly of the church, Will both loves and cares about the institution AND asks critically important questions that challenge the church to be better. You won’t want to miss this compelling story-packed episode that includes topics like how Jesus disrupts contented churches, why purpose is so important right now and Will’s advice to pastors in today’s context.    In this conversation, you’ll hear: Gil Rendle shares the meaning behind his paper “Jacob’s Bones.” What should we carry forward? (02:52) Will Willimon’s call to ministry and relationship with the church (13:36) How Jesus Christ disrupts otherwise happy, contented churches (19:46) Why getting clear on purpose is so important and how easy it is to get distracted (22:19) How to stay focused on what to keep and what to let go of (33:17) Willimon’s hope for the church 20, 30, 40 years from now (51:00)   QUOTES “It is easy to get distracted in the present moment. And sometimes I think the church argues about some of the stuff we’re fighting over because it's’ easier to fight over those subjects than to have a good argument about how can we have a future? How can we welcome in the two or three generations of Christians that we have excluded? That’s hard, and maybe that’s why we’ve been arguing.” -Will Willimon [25:59] “There’s times when I think sometimes our Methodist problems are due to the fact that maybe we have taken our eye off of the ball. We have not allowed the main thing to be the main thing, and we’ve had our arguments. But at the end of the day, those arguments have got to answer to Jesus Christ.” -Will Willimon [29:17]   Will Willimon’s Bio The Reverend Dr. William H. Willimon is Professor of the Practice of Christian Ministry at the Divinity School, Duke University. He served eight years as Bishop of the North Alabama Conference of The United Methodist Church, where he led the 157,000 Methodists and 792 pastors in North Alabama. For twenty years prior to the episcopacy, he was Dean of the Chapel and Professor of Christian Ministry at Duke University, Durham, North Carolina. Willimon is the author of over 80 books. His articles have appeared in many publications including Theology Today, Interpretation, Liturgy, and Christianity Today.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS More information about Bishop Will Willimon can be found on his website. Will Willimon is the author of 80 books. His latest is “Don’t Look Back: Methodist Hope for What Comes Next.” This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Season 6 of Igniting Imagination is coming soon! Host Lisa Greenwood, co-host Gil Rendle, and special guests from diverse theological perspectives discuss what core values and truths to carry forward and include in the future church. What values and truths will you carry forward? Our guests this season are:   Bishop Will Willimon Dr. Angela Gorrell Father Greg Boyle and Rev. Justin Coleman Rev. Jorge Acevedo Andy Crouch Bishop Gregory Palmer   We’re so grateful to share these conversations with you and pray they spark the spirit within you and ignite your imagination for what’s possible in your life and ministry. Join our weekly email, contact us, and find more resources from Leadership Ministry at tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry. If you like our podcast, please share your favorite episodes with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!

Our most-downloaded episode is back (!) for one big reason: this conversation remains incredibly relevant today. We are inviting you to listen again or for the first time to Tod Bolsinger because the way he talks about how to manage change, stress and resistance without burning out is as practical as it is inspiring. In this conversation, you’ll hear:   What’s the most important thing to hold on to in the face of change (05:54) Tod’s response to a leader who said “I think I can lead change, I’m not sure I can survive it.” (07:21) Who in history is the exemplar of tempered resilience and what we can learn from him (11:52) What are the qualities of leaders who can persevere under trial (14:20) Why ‘heat’ shapes a leader and Tod’s helpful blacksmithing metaphor (19:39) Why a rule of life and a rhythm of leading and not leading are vitally important (25:11) What are the practices I need in order to become resilient? (28:31)   QUOTES “The hardest thing about leading change is having to grapple with our own vulnerability.” -Dr. Tod Bolsinger [11:18] “Empathy is what we need for leadership. Because when you attune to people and they feel cared for, they will trust you and go further into their own pain and further into their own discomfort if they don’t.” -Dr. Tod Bolsinger [16:11]   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Follow Tod Bolsinger: @todbol For more resources from Tod and his team, text change to 66866. Tod Bolsinger is the author of Canoeing the Mountains, It Takes a Church to Raise a Christian, and most recently, Tempered Resilience: How Leaders are Formed in the Crucible of Change. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?