Igniting Imagination

This is a first for us: we recorded this bonus episode on location at a gathering we hosted in Austin, Texas! You’ll hear from eleven amazing leaders and practitioners of physical and digital ministry, or “phygital” as we’ve now learned to say. These pioneers in digital ministry will share their experiences, questions, and ideas for what the digital space makes possible for formation. From designing apps that reach younger generations to exploring virtual reality in the Metaverse, and so much more, this episode is interesting, informative, and inspiring! In this episode, we discuss: What formation is and what the digital space makes possible? (3:20)Three experiences of digital ministry: worship, an app, and campus ministry (18:38)Experiments in the Metaverse and the possibilities of virtual reality (34:36)Ethics and digital ministry (44:37)Reaching the unchurched or dechurched in digital space (51:54)Quotes:“I think the church is supposed to be the one making that clarion call to adventure for people to accept and then we're supposed to equip them along the way to launch them back into the world they came from so they can awaken others. … All the things that happen along the way take us from walking towards Jesus to walking with Jesus.” -Christian WashingtonThere's an app that you can download that actually wakes you up inside of a homeless person's tent. It starts with 360 degree recording of a real person's tent being arrested and dragged out of her tent. Then it fades to black and then you open up in a virtual environment, it's still her tent, but you can reach out and grab her mug, and then it plays an audio story of where the mug came from. You can pick up her journal and flip through it, or you can pick up her family photo and it flashes back to a memory of her and her family. It’s immersive, empathy building storytelling where you take somebody and transport them into somebody else's life, experiencing what other people are going through and building empathy across people groups.” -Dan BrackenBios of GuestsRachel BillupsRachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker and author. Currently she serves as Senior Pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church, New Albany/Columbus, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission. Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Bible/Religion and History from Anderson University and a Master of Divinity Degree from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is a popular speaker for national gatherings and has recently authored BE BOLD: Finding Four Fierce published by Abingdon Press. You can find her on social media at: @rlbillups.Dan BrackenDan has been on staff at Ginghamsburg Church since 2006, where he serves as Ginghamsburg’s communication director. Dan also leads the Ginghamsburg Design Studio, the church’s in-house creative media resourcing team where he practices all aspects of communication – video production, graphic design, social media, website development, app creation, creative storytelling, marketing and wayfinding.Phil DiekePhil is a Deacon in the North Texas Conference, currently serving as the Associate Pastor of Discipleship and Digital Ministry at White Rock UMC in East Dallas. He chairs the Board of Church and Society for the North Texas Conference, is a facilitator for Project Unity's Together We Dine, sits on the Executive Board of Texas Impact and the Leadership Council for Faith Forward Dallas. Phil believes technology, like human nature, has the potential to do good and all kinds of harm in this world, and creation as a whole. Rohini Drake Rohini Drake is the Director of Welcoming and Online Ministries at First UMC Richardson. Rachel GilmoreRachel is a former Peace Corp Volunteer who spent 10 years as a church planter and spiritual entrepreneur in Virginia Beach before serving as the Director of Recruiting, Assessing and Training of Church Planters for the United Methodist Church at Path 1/Discipleship Ministries. She now serves as the Director of New and Vital Faith in the Desert Southwest Conference and lives with her husband, two kids and two dogs in Phoenix, Arizona. She has also authored two books and launched two podcasts and co-founded Intersect: a Co-Planting Network in the fall of 2021.Aaron ManesAaron Manes is a Spiritual Director, Enneagramist and haphazard participant in spiritual practices. Aaron is the Director of Online Ministry and Spiritual Engagement at Arapaho United Methodist Church where he produces content and leads small groups. Aaron is also a trained and practicing Spiritual Director and is nearing completion of a Somatic Inquiry certification (a meditative prayer practice using the body as a guide for healing). Matt RawleMatt is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church, and he loves meditating on scripture, listening to the heart of God, and inspiring people to build God’s kingdom through radical love. He currently serves as Lead Pastor of Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, LA. He has authored eleven studies through Abingdon Press (Including Jesus Revealed, The Grace of Les Miserables, The Redemption of Scrooge, and Faith of a Mockingbird). Matt is a Louisiana delegate to the General and Jurisdictional Conferences, and the LA Conference Board of Ordained Ministry. He has a BA in Music from LSU and a MDiv from Duke Divinity School. His website is http://www.MattRawle.com.Derrick ScottDerrick is first a follower of Jesus. He seeks to offer everything he does, all that he has and all that he is in response to all God has done for him. His passion is raising up a new generation of leaders and laborers who will live as disciples of Jesus Christ to transform the world. Derrick believes all of life flows from our spiritual being. He believes the deeper we go into understanding who we are as souls, the more we are able to experience life in its fullness. Wherever he goes, his goal is to inspire individuals to steward this moment we are in by holding space for all to bring their true selves. Jeremy SteeleJeremy Steele is a writer, technologist, conspirator and spiritual entrepreneur who refuses to give up on Christianity. He is the Founder of the Zoay app and currently works two jobs as the Church Translator for the Changemaker initiative in Silicon Valley and as the Executive director of the Wesley Foundation in Mobile, Al. Jeremy also consults with digital ministry innovators and churches on developing new ministry and scaling up their digital strategy to impact more people and reach sustainability. You can find more about him and his work at Jeremy-Steele.comChristian WashingtonChristian Washington serves as lead pastor of Upper Room Heights, an intentionally multiethnic community of Chapelwood UMC. Prior to his work in ministry Christian started REAL Coaching, Incorporated (realcoaching.net) in 2004 as the first “rapid solutions” consulting practice that focuses on faith-based and non-profit organizations. Much in demand as a public speaker, Christian is a native of Los Angeles (It’s true, he is from Compton!) and enjoys inspiring leaders to make a significant impact on the world. He studied theology at Princeton Theological Seminary and management science at the University of California in San Diego. Christian sits on numerous non-profit boards, is a Project Curate Lily Fellow and a Fellow of the Loyola University Institute of Politics. John WhirledgeJohn believes he was placed in the world by God to be a shepherd of people. He has served churches as a youth pastor, worship pastor and now finds himself immersed in all things related to digital ministry. His greatest joy comes from seeing people connect with Jesus, wherever they are physically, spiritually, emotionally, or anywhere else in between. Show NotesThis podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Humans are equipped with an innate capacity for spirituality and our brains become more resilient and robust the more we engage with spirituality. This groundbreaking research from Dr. Lisa Miller has enormous implications for the church. Dr. Miller joins our podcast to make a case for why the church is desperately needed today, not just as an antidote to the “diseases of despair,” but also as a key and necessary ingredient for human thriving. From her own personal journey of spiritual awakening to her passionate plea to bring religion back into the public square, Dr. Miller shares insight and inspiration that is not to be missed. Quotations“Sometimes God tells you when there’s only one answer and that answer is ‘yes!’” (07:12)“Just as we have two eyes, two ears and a nose, every single baby is born with a capacity for spiritual life” (12:01) (Quote for Graphic)“We can no longer locate diagnosis, suffering, or despair at the level of the individual. This is a culture and climate crisis. Our entire society needs to put our spiritual heart back into the center of who we are.” (23:30)“I feel that our culture at large is in a state of developmental depression. This is the knock at the door for our own spiritual awakening and deepening.” (31:10)“The greatest gift that I wish for my children is not that they ace AP Chemistry, it's that they can develop a sacred relationship through which they find guidance in very unpredictable waters.” (38:56)We discuss:Dr. Miller’s ‘aha’ moment that led her to study spirituality and the brain (5:23)Key research about the brain not to be missed (9:00)Our capacity of spiritual life is one third innate and two-thirds environmental (14:40)Why we can’t throw religion out of the public square (15:50)Dr. Miller’s work with the military to integrate spiritual life into the armed forces (19:30)The impact of spiritual decline on the mental well-being of our youth (21:30)The path forward out of the epidemic of despair among young people (26:20)Research insights about the impact of spirituality on children and young people (36:38)We are all born with the ability to see and know God (42:30)About Lisa MillerLisa Miller, Ph.D., is the New York Times bestselling author of The Spiritual Child and The Awakened Brain, and a professor in the Clinical Psychology Program at Teachers College, Columbia University. She is the founder and director of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute, the first Ivy League graduate program and research institute in spirituality and psychology, and has held over a decade of joint appointments in the Department of Psychiatry at Columbia University Medical School. Dr. Miller has published more than one hundred peer-reviewed articles in leading journals in leading journals such as The American Journal of Psychiatry and the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. She is also Editor of the Oxford Handbook of Psychology and Spirituality and Founding Co-Editor-in-Chief of Spirituality in Clinical Practice.Show NotesLisa Miller is a professor in the Clinical Psychology Program at Teachers College, Columbia University and Founder and Director of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute at Teachers College, Columbia University. Find out more about her work at her work with the awakened brain and the spiritual child at her website.Lisa Miller is author of The Awakened Brain: The New Science of Spirituality and Our Quest for an Inspired Life and the New York Times bestseller The Spiritual Child: The New Science on Parenting for Health and Lifelong Thriving.This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Our podcast aims to “spark the Spirit within you” and what you will hear in this conversation with Anne Snyder is a person whose spirit is on fire for something bigger than herself. What an inspired and inspiring time we had with Anne Snyder–we can’t wait for you to listen! From her vulnerable sharing of her own formation story to her reflection on why institutions matter today and how we can become whole people, Anne offers us so much to be hopeful for. In addition to her wise and thoughtful articulation of these ideas, Anne also shares inspiring stories of the everyday heroes she’s encountered who humbly bring people together, working to be “agents of repair” in their institutions, their neighborhoods, and on their front porches. Enjoy this dynamic conversation, share with others, and keep the conversation going! Thanks for listening.Quotations“Love, to be, to have integrity, has to suffer with.” (12:34)“If we can name some of the deeper principles at work in a healthy organization that save people and provide a bridge in times of displacement and loss, maybe that's where we need to begin in the century of so much institutional distrust. (15:01)“Institutions are the bridge for us between individual self-actualization and contribution and understanding our role within something larger.” (19:56)“We awaken to the deepest truth of things always in dialogue, and institutions are the containers that allow us to experience that dialogue, even when it's discordant.” (21:21)“I long to be welcomed into an alternative reality through words and bread and hugs, and tears and shared prayers.” (49:00)We discuss:Anne’s formation story (12:00)Why institutions bring important gifts in these challenging times (14:53)The deeper stream of change and growth available to us (19:30)What it means to to be a whole human (23:30)Positive change through institutionalists with a revolutionary impulse (29:50)Every day, people “suffer their way to serve our world and keep our democracy alive” (37:18)How institutions can be life-giving and uniting (38:00)The mystery of God plays out in the mix people, neighborhoods and churches (45:05)Anne’s current formation lies in the tensions of being a “weaver of people.” (48:03)Being a woman in a public and the role of the feminine spirit in the world (52:28)About Anne SnyderAnne Snyder is the editor in chief of Comment Magazine and oversees Comment’s partner project Breaking Ground. She's the host of the podcast The Whole Person Evolution and co-editor of Breaking Ground: Charting Our Future in a Pandemic Year that came out in January of 2022. Her book, The Fabric of Character: A Wise Giver’s Guide to Renewing our Social and Moral Landscape was published in 2019.Before leading Comment, she directed the Philanthropy Round Table Character Initiative, a program seeking to help foundations and business leaders strengthen the “middle ring” of morally formative institutions. In addition to regular pieces for Comment, Anne has also published in The Atlantic Monthly, The Washington Post, and Bittersweet Monthly, and her writings are available at her site, Souls and Silos.Show NotesAnne Snyder is editor in chief of Comment MagazineAnne Snyder is the author of The Fabric of Character: A Wise Giver’s Guide to Renewing our Social and Moral Landscape (2019) and co-editor of Breaking Ground: Charting Our Future in a Pandemic Year (2022). This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

We kick off Season 7 of the Igniting Imagination podcast in conversation with pastor and social entrepreneur Tim Soerens about the immense opportunity to reenergize the church today by daring to be “faithfully present” to what God imagines for us in our churches, our neighborhoods, and in our daily lives. The challenges the church faces today are very real, yet Tim shows us a path forward that blends an active spiritual journey with the material realities of daily life. Tim provides insights from his work as well as his experience as a dad with three children. In this conversation we discuss:The purpose of the church (7:03)Why we are at a crossroads in the life of the church (9:53)‘What is God’s dream right here in my neighborhood and right here in my church, right now?’ (13:25)The church is both events in a building at set times AND people out in their neighborhoods every day. (17:01)Our spiritual formation is happening to us all the time(21:03)How we can avoid a “path of despair” and move the church forward (25:00)How Tim puts this into action in his own daily life, with his three children. (30:13)Tim’s own continual process of spiritual formation and how he lives it on a daily basis. (35:13)About Tim Soerens Tim Soerens is a pastor, social entrepreneur, and co-founding director of the Parish Collective, a growing network and global movement of Christians reimagining what it means to be church in, with and for the neighborhood. He’s the author of Everywhere You Look, Discovering the Church Right Where You Are and co-author of The New Parish: How Neighborhood Churches Transform Mission, Discipleship and Community. He co-founded Neighborhood Economics which catalyzes entrepreneurship as a path to wealth for marginalized communities and has helped to raise over 3 million dollars. With a global reach, Tim speaks to organizations and denominations across the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand. Show NotesMore information about Tim Soerens can be found on his website.Tim Soerens is the author of Everywhere You Look, Discovering the Church Right Where You Are.This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

This season on Igniting Imagination host Lisa Greenwood, co-host Tim Soerens, and special guests explore spiritual formation: what is formation and what is the church’s role in formation? Join our email, contact us, and find more resources from Leadership Ministry at tmf-fdn.org

We conclude our season on Jacob’s Bones (the core truths, values and practices to carry forward in the new church) in the wilderness where identity and purpose can become clear. Bishop Palmer reflects on the gifts of this wilderness time in the church and through his no-nonsense, compelling way, challenges the church to move beyond navel-gazing to face out to the world. This inspired and hope-filled conversation invites us to consider what it really means to be the church today. Bishop Palmer embodies the passion and possibility of the church’s bold witness for the present and future church. What will be your bold witness for the church?   In this conversation:  Lisa and Gil answer the question: “What do you hope is true about the church 20-30 years from now?” (01:29) Bishop Palmer reflects on the gifts of wilderness (09:43) What Bishop Palmer means when he says the church “campaigned to be chaplains of the middle class” (16:34) Helping the church face out to the world (22:41) “We overvalued being respected and being nice” (32:22) Bishop Palmer talks racism, mass incarceration, poverty (37:44) What Bishop Palmer hopes is true about the church in 20-30 years (52:19)   QUOTES “The fact that there are many natural born leaders that are incarcerated, how are we tapping that resource to learn more about leadership? And how are we making room for them in the pew, in the life of the church?” -Bishop Gregory Palmer [50:16] “I believe the Gospel is large enough to have whether you want to say multiple angles of view or a wide angle of view.” -Bishop Gregory Palmer [55:26]   Bishop Gregory Palmer​’s bio Bishop Palmer is the Resident Bishop of the West Ohio Conference of The United Methodist Church. Born and reared in Philadelphia, Bishop Gregory Vaughn Palmer is a “child of the church,” the son of a retired United Methodist pastor and a schoolteacher in the Philadelphia Public School system. A graduate of Duke University Divinity School, Palmer was ordained a deacon in 1977. In 1981, he was elected to full membership and ordained an elder. Palmer also served as superintendent. He was elected to the episcopacy in 2000. He has served as president of the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry and president of the Council of Bishops and he is currently a member of the Standing Committee on Central Conference Matters and chair of the Comprehensive Africa Plan. He also is a board member of several organizations, including The United Methodist Publishing House, Methodist Theological School in Ohio, United Theological Seminary and OhioHealth. Married for 45 years to his wife Cynthia, they are the parents of two adult children, Monica and Aaron.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Bishop Palmer’s Podcast (with Bishop Easterling and Bishop McKee) is The Unfinished Church. Visit their website here: https://theunfinishedchurch.org Bishop Palmer’s Leadership Clinics are inspiring! Find out more here: https://www.westohioumc.org/clinics This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Andy Crouch believes that one of the biggest challenges of pastoral ministry right now is not being seduced by the false vision of human flourishing that our culture offers and that technology optimizes. “You’re not going to get to the Kingdom of God by providing these religious goods and services that your system has been set up to provide and that technology can help you optimize,” Crouch says. “You're only going to get there by finding ways to reinvest in small communities, small enough for people to actually be known and to actually encounter God together.” This conversation begins with a robust discussion of how we have displaced the need for authentic relationships with the ease of technology and concludes with real clarity for how leaders in the church can lead us back to true community. To be clear, Crouch is not saying to get rid of technology and devices, rather he shows us how to put them in their proper place in our church and world. Andy articulates a deeply thoughtful, challenging, and compelling vision for the church’s role in restoring true community and facilitating human flourishing in the world. We can’t wait for you to listen!   Our Leadership Ministry team has returned again and again to Andy’s book and to this conversation with him… here are some key points in this episode:  Gil reflects on Jacob’s Bones in light of the denominational divisions happening right now (01:36) Andy describes the false vision of human flourishing (12:18) The life we’re looking for, the true vision of human flourishing (15:20) Why there are no technological solutions to the problems technology has created (27:53) Putting tech in its proper place in our lives and in the church (30:32) Why Andy says “This is all very Wesleyan!” (34:30) Why the numbers 3 and 12 are SO important for leaders (42:42)   QUOTES “I think the task of every shepherd, whether you’re ordained or a lay shepherd like I am, is to find ways to circumvent the production system and get people into real relationships.” -Andy Crouch [33:57] “The problem is we think culture making requires scale because we think about the millions of consumers, but the actual creation of new culture happens in these tiny groups. And it’s because creation requires trust. It’s the most risky thing human beings do.” -Andy Crouch [48:40]   Andy Crouch’s bio Andy Crouch is the author of four books; he is also a partner for theology and culture at Praxis, an organization that works as a creative engine for redemptive entrepreneurship. For more than ten years, Crouch was a producer and then executive editor at Christianity Today. His work and writing have been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Time, Best Christian Writing, and Best Spiritual Writing.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Grace Church is the perfect name for the now large, multi-site, United Methodist congregation in Southwest Florida that Jorge Acevedo started two decades ago. “Help us be the church for people that nobody sees” has been the church’s focus and that is exactly the church they have become. Grace Church is taking the healing ministry of Jesus seriously by bringing together people, places, and processes that make it possible for those who are affected by addiction to heal–and Grace Church is leading the way as one of America’s most effective churches in recovery ministries. Jorge shares his own story of how God’s saving grace saved him from addiction and offers a rich theology of salvation and formation that is deeply moving and convicting. Do we have the courage as the church to create spaces for people who need help and healing?   In this conversation: Gil Rendle considers what resilience looks like for the church right now (01:01) Jorge shares his story of recovery from addiction and how his experience of God’s grace has shaped his ministry (10:27) What is the role of healing in Christian ministry? (14:50) Jorge’s conviction that spiritual leaders primarily do three things (18:39) Why Jorge says the “hardest thing for a spiritual leader to lead is themselves” and his wisdom for leading your life well (22:37) Creating a disciple-making culture (29:59) The depth at the heart of innovative ministry (38:09) The one question Jorge asked NT Wright that guides his vision for the church’s future (50:53)   QUOTES “Deep within our theology and the early practices of Methodist was this desire to see the goodness and the grace of God penetrate our addictions and our afflictions and compulsive behaviors.” -Jorge Acevedo [12:31] “So we believe that God is at work in every person in every human heart, but do we have the courage to join God in those spaces and in those places and amongst those people who may be very far from God?” -Jorge Acevedo [36:08]   Jorge Acevedo’s bio Jorge is the Lead Pastor at Grace Church, a multi-site, United Methodist congregation in Southwest Florida with three campuses.  Jorge is a 1984 graduate of Asbury College where he received a Bachelor of Arts Degree majoring in Bible. He is also a graduate of Asbury Theological Seminary with a Master of Divinity Degree. He is currently working on a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary focusing on building generative teams for congregational vitality and sustainability. He’s been a faithful United Methodist, serving for many years as a delegate to the General Conference; he also served on the Call to Action Steering Team and the Commission on a Way Forward. Jorge has co-authored and written many books, including: A Field Guide for Methodist Fresh Expressions, Neighboring and The Grace-Full Life: God’s All-Reaching, Soul-Saving, Character-Shaping, Never-Ending Love.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Find out more about Fresh Expressions here. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Gil Rendle says in the intro that this conversation with Father Greg Boyle is “one of the richest conversations I’ve ever been in.” How grateful we are to have recorded this beautiful and rich back and forth between Gil, Rev. Lisa Greenwood, Father Boyle and Rev. Justin Coleman! Father Boyle’s approach to gang intervention rehabilitation and re-entry at his organization Homeboy Industries is not really about providing services, although they do provide holistic services from education to tattoo removal. The real heart of the work is relationship and creating a culture of kinship, tenderness, and joy. Boyle returns again and again to the heart of God and the heart of Jesus, inviting us again and again to embrace our own belovedness and everyone else’s belovedness.   In this conversation… Gil shares the difference between the work of improving and the work of creating (01:06) The short game of trying experiments and the long game of deep institutional work (04:39) Father Boyle’s vocational journey that led him to start Homeboy Industries (16:41) Providing services vs being in relationship (22:35) The theology that guides Father Boyle (31:58) When there is so much grief and pain, how do you not get caught up in a constant cycle of desolation? (36:54) Creating a culture of the Gospel (42:03) Why Father Boyle says “Gang members have taught me everything of value.” (50:41)   QUOTES “We’re always getting ahead of ourselves, right? Just about tomorrow or lamenting what I did yesterday. Ouch. Why did I say that? And as opposed to staying anchored in the present moment. I think that’s where the joy is.” -Father Boyle [27:41] “Don’t just look at the services. Look at the language that’s being used. Look at the approach towards the other person.” -Rev. Coleman [48:54]   Father Greg Boyle’s bio Gregory Boyle is an American Jesuit priest and the founder of Homeboy Industries in Los Angeles, the largest gang-intervention, rehabilitation, and re-entry program in the world. He has received the California Peace Prize and been inducted into the California Hall of Fame. In 2014, the White House named Boyle a Champion of Change. He received the University of Notre Dame’s 2017 Laetare Medal, the oldest honor given to American Catholics. He is the acclaimed author of Tattoos on the Heart and Barking to the Choir.  The Whole Language is his third book, and all net proceeds go to Homeboy Industries.    Rev. Justin Coleman’s bio Justin grew up in Texas, and attended Southern Methodist University, graduating in 2000 with a major in religious studies.  He, too, was highly active in SMU’s Wesley Foundation, and served as Associate Pastor at SMU’s Wesley Foundation from 2001 to 2003 as he began seminary studies at SMU’s Perkins School of Theology.  Justin transferred to Duke Divinity School in 2003 and graduated with a Master of Divinity in 2005. Justin’s first clergy appointment was to University UMC, as an intern in 2004 and then as Associate Pastor from 2005 to 2007.  In 2007, Justin was called back to the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, where he is an elder, and was appointed Associate Pastor at St. Luke’s United Methodist Church in Houston, Texas.  For six years from 2008 to 2014, Justin served as the Executive and Lead Pastor of the Gethsemane Campus of St. Luke’s Church and led it through a remarkable period of growth in ministry and service to its community.  From 2014 to June 2017 Justin served as the Chief Ministry Officer of the United Methodist Publishing House in Nashville, Tennessee.  During this time, he has also continued to frequently offer lectures, sermons, and lead worship.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Find out more about Homeboy Industries here. Father Greg Boyle’s bestselling book is Tattoos on the Heart, his newest book is The Whole Language. All proceeds go to Homeboy Industries. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

“America’s crisis of despair crashed into my life while I was getting paid to think about joy,” is how Dr. Angela Gorrell begins her book on joy and that is where we begin our conversation. What is authentic joy and how do you experience joy when there is so much to NOT be joyful about? One key, says Dr. Gorrell, is to recognize joy as a gift, like grace, and not something you can pursue like the “choose joy” coffee mugs and wall hangings imply. This episode includes a dynamic discussion between Lisa and Gil about the “we” and “I” culture that carries into their conversation with Angela: what are the communal and individual aspects of joy and ultimately: what is the church’s role in cultivating space for people to experience and receive joy?   What to listen for Lisa and Gil discuss the “I” based culture and the “we” based culture (00:54) and what the church has to offer How despair came crashing into Angela’s life (12:54) Joy as a gift, not something you can choose (18:30) Gil wonders if we do have to choose to be open to joy for the gift to be received (26:12) How we all have a “flashlight” to look for truth, beauty, goodness (28:37) What’s the role of the church in cultivating joy? (36:12) The Future of Church Project (42:38)   QUOTES “Joy is about open hands. It’s about a posture that we have in the world. It’s about a readiness.” -Dr. Angela Gorrell [22:12] “We can't receive a gift if our hands are closed.” -Dr. Angela Gorrell [28:08]   Angela Gorrell’s Bio Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell joined Baylor's George W. Truett Theological Seminary in Fall 2019 as Assistant Professor of Practical Theology. Prior to joining the faculty at Baylor University, she was an Associate Research Scholar at the Yale Center for Faith & Culture, working on the Theology of Joy and the Good Life Project, and a lecturer in Divinity and Humanities at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. She is an ordained pastor with 14 years of ministry experience.  Dr. Gorrell is passionate about finding issues that matter to people and shining the light of the Gospel on them. She is the author of always on: practicing faith in a new media landscapeand a new book, The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found, which shares findings of the joy project while addressing America’s opioid and suicide crises. Dr. Gorrell’s expertise is in the areas of theology and contemporary culture, education and formation, meaning-making, joy, new media, and youth and emerging adults. Dr. Gorrell regularly consults, speaks, and leads workshops and retreats on her research and areas of expertise.   RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here. Visit Angela’s Gorrell’s website for more information about her work including a free book discussion guide, and information about her speaking and consulting.  Angela’s Gorrell book is The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found. This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry. If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?