Igniting Imagination

Our guest is Dr. Aaron Kuecker, President of Trinity Christian College in Chicago. We can’t wait for you to hear what they are doing at Trinity Christian to tend to the wellbeing of their students. It is intentional and generous and nothing short of life-changing – from their approach to the funding model to how they are protecting the mid-week “Wellbeing Wednesday.” You can’t help but think: What if all campuses were trying similar things? How would this generation be shaped for good? Perhaps we might all be a bit more grounded and generous and less despairing. We are excited for you to meet Aaron and hear how truth-telling, transparency and a commitment to wellbeing is transforming individual lives, a campus, and a community. We hope it sparks a new imagination in you for what is possible in this season and if it does, let us know! Share with friends and leave us a review. In this conversation, you’ll hear:Challenges college campuses are facing todayHow Christian theology led to prioritizing student wellbeingExploring a new economic model for higher educationLeading an established institution through significant changeAbout Aaron KueckerDr. Aaron Kuecker serves as president of Trinity Christian College. Before assuming this role, he had served as the College’s provost since July 2016. His work as interim president and provost represent a sort of homecoming to the Trinity community. From 2008-2013, Kuecker was associate professor of theology and director of education at the College. In the intervening years, he served at LeTourneau University in Longview, Texas, most recently as dean of the School of Theology & Vocation, professor of theology, and director of the Honors College.Kuecker’s academic work has largely focused on identity formation in the early Christian church, with an emphasis on New Testament studies and biblical theology. He received his Ph.D. in New Testament studies from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland; his M.Div., from Western Theological Seminary; and his B.A. in political science from Central College. Before earning his Ph.D., Kuecker served as associate pastor and youth pastor at Community Reformed Church in Zeeland, MI.For more information about Trinity Christian College, visit their website at https://www.trnty.edu/To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

This conversation with Dr. Pauline Boss, author of Ambiguous Loss: Learning to Live with Unresolved Grief, is hope-filled, encouraging, validating, and motivating. Her insights manage to be both practical and weighty. She reminds us that we live in a mastery culture – that is, we want to be in control, have the answers, and win – which is, of course, a myth, so we are a nation (yes, a whole nation!) of unresolved grief, needing to name our profound sense of loss in the face of so much uncertainty. Wow! Think about the implications for the church – the essential role we can play in stewarding grief today, navigating uncertainty, residing in hope. This conversation feels like holy ground. We hope it ignites a new imagination for your leadership, your relationships, your way of being in the world. In this conversation, you’ll hear:How Dr. Boss came to coin the term “ambiguous loss” Loss vs. Grief in our culture Learning to sit with loss and unanswered questionsAmbiguous loss in congregations / leading congregations to grieve ambiguous lossWhy closure is a myth and what that means for how we live and leadAbout Dr. Pauline BossPauline Boss, PhD, Professor Emeritus at the University of Minnesota is a Fellow in the American Psychological Association and the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy and a former president of the National Council on Family Relations. She practiced family therapy for over 40 years. With her groundbreaking work in research and practice, Dr. Boss coined the term ambiguous loss in the 1970s and since then, developed and tested the theory of ambiguous loss, a guide for working with families of the missing, physically or psychologically. She summarized this research and clinical work in her widely acclaimed book Ambiguous Loss: Learning to Live with Unresolved Grief (Harvard University Press, 2000). In addition to over 100 peer reviewed academic articles and chapters, her other books include Loss, Trauma, and Resilience: Therapeutic Work with Ambiguous Loss (W. W. Norton, 2006) and Loving Someone Who Has Dementia: How to Find Hope While Coping with Stress and Grief (Jossey-Bass, 2011). Her most recent book is The Myth of Closure: Ambiguous Loss in a Time of Pandemic and Change (W. W. Norton, 2022). Her work is known around the world wherever ambiguous losses occur, and her books have been translated 23 times into various languages. As of 2022, Dr. Boss was granted Emeritus status as a longtime family therapist, and, as of 2023, Emeritus status in the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy. For more information about Dr. Boss, her writings, and the ambiguous loss online training program, see www.ambiguousloss.com.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Jump into 2024 with a special Bonus Episode of Igniting Imagination! We have invited two of our most frequent (and beloved) guests, Rev. Rachel Billups and Rev. Matt Rawle, to engage with Carey Nieuwhof’s list of 7 Church Trends That Will Disrupt 2024. Matt and Rachel reflect that this year’s list seems particularly spot on. From the endangered stable church to the normative adoption of AI, these trends are real and happening now. Throughout the conversation, they offer practical nuggets – things they are trying in the midst of so much change and challenge and possibility. Thanks for listening and sharing our podcast with colleagues and friends! We hope this conversation inspires and even provokes you to new conversations and imagination in this New Year!  In this conversation, you’ll hear: How Rachel and Matt have experienced the trend that the “stable church” is an “endangered species” (5:30)What it means for congregations where Millennials are becoming the core (10:45)The different generational needs and expectations of pastoral leadership (14:00)How Gen Z is reshaping the church and how leaders can cultivate Gen Z community (25:00)Growing opportunities for digital discipleship (30:00)Leaning into AI in 2024 and beyond (38:10)GuestsRev. Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Churchmulti-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor’s degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.Rev. Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. Learn more about Matt on his website, mattrawle.com. To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Read Rev. Dr. Paul Escamilla’s response to the Wheatley episode on our website here. In this episode, you’ll hear us:Discuss of Wheatley’s unsettling insistence that we are ‘addicted to hope’ (9:19)Consider what the notion of “islands of sanity” means for local congregations (13:55)Analyze becoming vs. gaining (22:34)Interpret Wheatley’s Two Loop theory for the work of the church today (37:24)Experience Danielle Shroyer reading an excerpt from the new intro to the 10th Anniversary of her book, “Boundary Breaking God” (53:00) Danielle Shroyer’s BioDanielle spent over a decade in pastoral leadership and was a founding member of the emerging church movement. She speaks often across the country on issues of theology, faith, culture, and story, and she blogs at beasoulninja.com. Danielle currently serves as the Spiritual Director in Residence at Preston Hollow Presbyterian Church in Dallas.Danielle is the author of Original Blessing: Putting Sin in its Rightful Place; Where Jesus Prayed: Illuminations on the Lord’s Prayer in the Holy Land; and The Boundary Breaking God: An Unfolding Story of Hope and Promise. Gil Rendle’s BioGil is a retired Senior Vice President and part-time consultant with The Texas Methodist Foundation in Austin, Texas, and an independent consultant working with issues of change and leadership in denominations.Rendle has an extensive background in organizational development, group and systems theory, and leadership development. He has consulted with congregations on planning, staff and leadership development, and issues of change. He is well known for his work with middle judicatory and national denominational offices and staff as they wrestle with denominational and congregational change.He is the author of ten books, a contributor to four books, and the author of numerous articles and monographs. His most recent books include Journey in the Wilderness: New Life for Mainline Churches (2010) and Back to Zero: The Search to Rediscover the Methodist Movement (2011) both published by Abingdon Press and Doing the Math of Mission: Fruits, Faithfulness and Metrics (2014) and Quietly Courageous: Leading the Church in a Changing World (2018) both published by Rowman & Littlefield.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Dr. Margaret Wheatley has greatly influenced our leadership ministry work over the past several decades. We have given her book Who Do We Choose to Be? Facing Reality, Restoring Sanity, Claiming Leadership to many leaders. Meg’s foundational idea that “conversation is the currency of change” is at the heart of everything we do. The Two-Loop Theory she developed with Deborah Frieze has helped us clarify and articulate our role in forming cohorts that network, nourish, and inspire leaders to bring about the new Wesleyan ecosystem and the world that God imagines. Needless to say, getting to meet Meg and record a podcast with her was thrilling for us! And…this interview truly wowed us. In fact, it was so dang good we are releasing it way earlier than we anticipated! We want you to hear Meg’s insights about the age we are living in, how she’s changed her mind, and what is ours to do as leaders today.If you find our podcast meaningful, share with a friend and leave us a review! And as we mention in each episode, we love hearing from you! Visit our websites for our contact information and more! https://ignitingimagination.org/ and https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/In this conversation, you'll hear:Response to those who think money, not conversation is the currency of change today (7:18)Analysis of the “Age of Threat” we are living in and the role of islands of sanity (12:00)Updated thinking about the Two-Loop theory and role of catalyst (20:05)The antidote to despair and grief in our time (34:15)The need for health refugias (43:35)What’s going to be on her tombstone (50:30)Lisa Greenwood and Shannon Hopkins reflect on the conversation with Meg (53:27)Dr. Margaret Wheatley is a consultant, senior-level advisor, teacher, speaker, co-founder and President of The Berkana Institute; she has worked on all continents (except Antarctica) with all levels, ages, and types of organizations, leaders, and activists. Her work now focuses on developing and supporting leaders globally as Warriors for the Human Spirit. These leaders put service over self, stand steadfast through crises and failures, and make a difference for the people and causes they care about. With compassion and insight, they know how to invoke people’s inherent generosity, creativity, kindness, and community–no matter what’s happening around them.Meg has written ten books, including the classic Leadership and the New Science, and been honored for her pathfinding work by many professional associations, universities, and organizations. Her website is designed as a library of free resources as well as information about products and her speaking calendar. www.margaretwheatley.comWe reference Margaret Wheatley and Deborah Frieze’s Two Loop Theory in the conversation. Find information about the theory and so much more on the Berkana website resource page here.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Rev. Kathi McShane, a retired United Methodist pastor, and Rabbi Elan Babchuck, a millennial, experienced an immediate connection when they met, a Spirit connection that made them fast friends from the beginning. In this episode, they share how their friendship naturally manifested in Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership After Empire. They discuss the vision of the book, moving away from the pyramid model of leadership where power is centered around one person or a group of people and towards a shared power where every person can stretch toward the fullness of their God-given gifts, regardless of where they land on an organizational chart. Their vision of leadership, born of their friendship, shows how holy friendship truly benefits not only those in the friendship but blesses the whole world.Poem from the Podcast“Red Brocade” by Naomi Shihab NyeThe Arabs used to say,When a stranger appears at your door,feed him for three daysbefore asking who he is,where he’s come from,where he’s headed.That way, he’ll have strengthenough to answer.Or, by then you’ll besuch good friendsyou don’t care.Let’s go back to that.Rice? Pine nuts?Here, take the red brocade pillow.My child will serve waterto your horse.No, I was not busy when you came!I was not preparing to be busy.That’s the armor everyone put onto pretend they had a purposein the world.I refuse to be claimed.Your plate is waiting.We will snip fresh mintinto your tea.(Nye, Naomi Shihab. “Red Brocade.” 19 Varieties of Gazelle: Poems of the Middle East, HarperCollins Publishers, 2005, pp. 40.)Quotations"I know I'm in a holy friendship when I feel in every interaction like I am so gifted by this person's presence in my life and what I want for him is only good. I think those are the same things that sound like love."-    Rev. Kathleen McShane We discuss:A rabbi and a pastor, living on different coasts and born in different generations, form a holy friendship. (04:13)The friends discuss the concept of a soul friend and their deep connection with each other. (11:30)The two reflect on the spontaneous and immediate response that led them to collaborate on writing a book, believing it was something bigger than themselves. (13:51)The friends reflect on the dynamics of power and friendship, highlighting the importance of humility, learning, and letting go of pride. (28:33)The suggestion that religious organizations have the potential to experiment with alternative leadership models and add value to society. (34:43) About Rev. Kathleen McShane is the director of Leadership and Innovation for Texas Methodist Foundation and Wesleyan Impact Partners. She retired from active ministry as an ordained Elder in the California-Nevada Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2022. She led four congregations and served eight years as the vice president for Institutional Advancement at the Pacific School of Religion. Before attending seminary, she was a civil litigator, practicing law in the San Francisco Bay Area. She co-founded the Changemaker Initiative, a small national movement of churches committed to empowering lay people to become compassion-driven changemakers like Jesus. Rabbi Elan Babchuck is the executive vice president at Clal, the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, and the founding executive director of Glean Network, which partners with Columbia Business School. He is a sought-after thought leader, having delivered keynotes at stages ranging from TEDx to the US Army’s General Officer Convocation, published in The Atlantic, The Guardian, Washington Post, and Religion News Service, has a column for The Wisdom Daily, and he contributed to Meaning Making – 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations (2020, St. Mary’s Press). He also serves as a founding partner of Starts With Us, a movement to counteract toxic polarization in America, and a founding research advisory board member of Springtide Research Institute, which focuses on spirituality, mental health, and Gen Z.Rev. Kathleen McShane and Rabbi Elan Babchuck co-authored Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership after Empire (Fortress Press, to be published January 2024). The book offers a provocation to religious leaders to exercise institutional power more generously. It speaks to leaders ready to shift from organizational patterns that demand over-functioning and instead share power so that power multiplies.Show NotesRev. Kathleen McShane is the director of Leadership and Innovation for Texas Methodist Foundation and Wesleyan Impact Partners. She retired from active ministry as an ordained Elder in the California-Nevada Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2022. She led four congregations and served eight years as the vice president for Institutional Advancement at the Pacific School of Religion. Before attending seminary, she was a civil litigator, practicing law in the San Francisco Bay Area. She co-founded the Changemaker Initiative, a small national movement of churches committed to empowering lay people to become compassion-driven changemakers like Jesus. Rabbi Elan Babchuck is the executive vice president at Clal, the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, and the founding executive director of Glean Network, which partners with Columbia Business School. He is a sought-after thought leader, having delivered keynotes at stages ranging from TEDx to the US Army’s General Officer Convocation, published in The Atlantic, The Guardian, Washington Post, and Religion News Service, has a column for The Wisdom Daily, and he contributed to Meaning Making – 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations (2020, St. Mary’s Press). He also serves as a founding partner of Starts With Us, a movement to counteract toxic polarization in America, and a founding research advisory board member of Springtide Research Institute, which focuses on spirituality, mental health, and Gen Z.Rev. Kathleen McShane and Rabbi Elan Babchuck co-authored Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership after Empire (Fortress Press, to be published January 2024). The book offers a provocation to religious leaders to exercise institutional power more generously. It speaks to leaders ready to shift from organizational patterns that demand over-functioning and instead share power so that power multiplies.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

The guests in this episode became friends through a common commitment to activism and social justice. Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV and Rev. Dr. Matt Russell became best friends both by cultivating their common ground and exploring the very real differences between their perspectives and experiences. They share how their friendship has profoundly shaped their work, their personal growth, and their lives as Christian men. Their conversation, very real and full of laughter, feels like an experience of the holy, showing us how sanctified friendships are a work of the Spirit bringing us together, especially for such a time as this. It’s well worth just taking the time to be fully immersed in this wonderful conversation.Find the poem from the podcast here.Quotations"Matt enables me to be creative because he's one of the few persons in the world who would understand my decisions and commitment to my integrity of conscience."-    Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV We discuss:Matt and Cleve discuss how they met and became friends through their shared passion for social justice and activism. (5:27)The importance of building friendships across divides and the challenges of understanding different experiences and perspectives. (26:01)The speakers discuss how their friendship changed them and impacted their personal growth, creativity, and ability to thrive. (33:30)Exploring the challenges and importance of forming meaningful friendships between Christian men. (41:33)Exploring the concept of holiness and the need for the church to redefine it, emphasizing the importance of relational and shared resourcing. (49:18)About Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV is assistant professor of history and political science in the School of Arts and Sciences at Virginia Union University (VUU), where he has also been appointed the inaugural executive director of the Center for African-American History and Culture (CAAHC).Dr. Tinsley is quickly emerging as a noted interpreter of religion and Black freedom movements, recently commenting on the role of religion in light of recent uprisings for Black lives for the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace and World Affairs at Georgetown University. He is the co-author of Embodiment and Black Religion: Rethinking the Body in African-American Religious Experience and is working on his first monograph, tentatively entitled Making Black Lives Matter: Religion and Race in the Struggle for African-American Identity.Rev. Dr. Matt Russell is an academic, activist, pastor, professor, and teacher. He is on staff at Chapelwood United Methodist Church in Houston and is co-founder and co-managing director of Project Curate, which works with religious, academic, and community organizations by curating and bringing together different voices and traditions to realize a radical vision of a more just and equitable world. He is also co-founder and executive director of Iconoclast Artists, a program that empowers young artists throughout the community. Show NotesDr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV is assistant professor of history and political science in the School of Arts and Sciences at Virginia Union University (VUU), where he has also been appointed the inaugural executive director of the Center for African-American History and Culture (CAAHC). He is the co-author of Embodiment and Black Religion: Rethinking the Body in African-American Religious Experience and is working on his first monograph, tentatively entitled Making Black Lives Matter: Religion and Race in the Struggle for African-American Identity.Rev. Dr. Matt Russell is an academic, activist, pastor, professor, and teacher. He is on staff at Chapelwood United Methodist Church in Houston and is co-founder and co-managing director of Project Curate, which works with religious, academic, and community organizations by curating and bringing together different voices and traditions to realize a radical vision of a more just and equitable world. He is also co-founder and executive director of Iconoclast Artists, a program that empowers young artists throughout the community.This podcast is brought to you by the Learning and Innovation team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Learning and Innovation connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

The guests in this episode are ‘all in’ with the church; they are dear friends of our host, Rev. Lisa Greenwood, who also happen to be Bishops in the United Methodist Church, Bishop Laura Merrill, and Bishop Janice Huie. In their conversation the three of them explore what has been meaningful about their friendship and how their friendship has impacted their leadership for the better, throughout their careers. They provide important insight into the critical role of vulnerability in friendship and how that means intentionally creating space for unlikely friendships, especially during challenging times. And they discuss how friendship is vital not only for us personally, but for the thriving of the church itself. Please enjoy and let us know what you think!Quotations"I'm in a holy friendship when I have both the desire and the energy and the willingness to be better, to be my best, truest self—that I want to, and I feel empowered to do so by that relationship."-    Bishop Laura Merrill“[Sanctified friendship] is a time and a space and a relationship in which love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, gentleness—all those are expanded and make us more whole. It's when the fruit of the spirit is enlarged.”-    Bishop Janice Huie We discuss:The depth and breadth of friendship (8:35)The importance of deep trust and vulnerability in friendship, even during challenging times. (23:08) Intentionally creating spaces for unlikely friendships and the potential impact of these connections in the church and society. (29:35) The significance of friendship in leadership roles (34:52)Challenges of maintaining friendships as a bishop (36:16) Find the poem from the podcast here.About Bishop Janice Huie serves with Texas Methodist Foundation in the area of Learning and Innovation, following twenty years as a bishop of the United Methodist Church. Previously, she served as bishop of the Texas Annual Conference and the Arkansas Conference. Bishop Huie served as president of the General Board of Higher Education & Ministry from 2000-2004, president of the Council of Bishops from May 2006 through May 2008, president of the UMCOR Board of Directors from 2008-2012, and president of the South Central Jurisdiction College of Bishops in 1998 & 2013.Bishop Laura Merrill is Capital District Superintendent for the Rio Texas Conference of the UMC in Austin, Texas. Her Cabinet experience includes service as Assistant to the Bishop, Director of Clergy Excellence, and El Valle District Superintendent on the Texas-Mexico border.When she was ten, Bob and Bishop Janice Huie were her pastors, and Bishop Huie has supported her ever since. As a young adult, Laura served as a missionary in Chile and with the Desert Southwest Conference in Tucson, Arizona. After seminary, she pastored local churches in Victoria, Los Fresnos, and Wimberley, Texas, followed by her appointment to the Cabinet in 2010. Her experience working with people experiencing poverty and in cross-cultural regions has fundamentally shaped her approach to ministry.  Show NotesBishop Janice Huie serves with Texas Methodist Foundation in the area of Learning and Innovation, following twenty years as a bishop of the United Methodist Church. Previously, she served as bishop of the Texas Annual Conference and the Arkansas Conference. Bishop Huie served as president of the General Board of Higher Education & Ministry from 2000-2004, president of the Council of Bishops from May 2006 through May 2008, president of the UMCOR Board of Directors from 2008-2012, and president of the South Central Jurisdiction College of Bishops in 1998 & 2013.Bishop Laura Merrill is Capital District Superintendent for the Rio Texas Conference of the UMC in Austin, Texas. Her Cabinet experience includes service as Assistant to the Bishop, Director of Clergy Excellence, and El Valle District Superintendent on the Texas-Mexico border. After seminary, she pastored local churches in Victoria, Los Fresnos, and Wimberley, Texas, followed by her appointment to the Cabinet in 2010. This podcast is brought to you by the Learning and Innovation team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Learning and Innovation connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

This episode features two “besties” talking honestly and openly about their friendship of many years and how it has deeply nourished them, even though they’ve never even lived in the same state. They discuss being fully present in real friendship, giving each other accountability, compassion, love, and care. They engage with the challenges that all leaders face, especially clergy and lay leaders in the church, and how none of us are immune to the loneliness epidemic in our culture. Heartfelt and real, this episode is a call to all of us to take care of our friendships because they are core to who we are and our well-being. We hope you’ll listen and then share it with all your friends!Quotations "The people around us are better because of the way that we've challenged each other."-Matt Rawle"I don't know how often I find myself in a group of people who, at one moment or another, there's a confession time that says, 'I ain't got anybody... I don't have friends.'"-Rachel Billups We discuss:  The need for affirmation and cheerleading in friendships, as well as the importance of being able to challenge and give honest feedback. (14:42)  The challenges clergy face in forming friendships, particularly due to the isolation and boundaries that come with their work. (20:06) How the church can be a space where people can find and nurture holy friendships, emphasizing the transformative power of community. (32:05) Understanding the need for pastors to strike a balance between vulnerability while maintaining appropriate boundaries with their congregations. (34:09) The different spaces where people can connect, such as online platforms and retreat centers, help remove barriers for gathering and help foster relationships. (40:06) Find the poem from the podcast here. About:Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Church multi-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. Learn more about Matt on his website, mattrawle.com. Show Notes:Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Church multi-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. Learn more about Matt on his website, mattrawle.com.This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

One of God’s greatest gifts to us is friendships, especially what our guest Rev. Dr. Victoria White calls “holy friendships.” These are the friendships that not only make life more enjoyable and more creative, but they are also core to who we are and who we become. They are “mutual and sacred relationships formed in God’s love,” and they help us be who God designs us to be. She gives us permission to drop the idea that we have to be hyper-productive lone rangers in the world and calls us to spend more time with our friends. She points out that even Jesus depended on the diversity and friendship of his disciples for his ministry. We are excited for you to hear this conversation on the life-giving importance of holy friendship. Listen with a friend over coffee!Quotations"Our society has commodified friendship and developed it into something that can be consumed. The church offers a real opportunity for us to cultivate the conditions for more authentic, more mutual, more holy relationships that help form us into the people God is creating us to be."Rev. Dr. Victoria White"My holy friends are going to do that for me because they know that my work matters; they know that what I am doing contributes to the way that I am bearing witness to God's work in this world."Rev. Dr. Victoria White"You know you're in a holy friendship when you can be uber confident and unashamedly yourself."Rev. Dr. Victoria WhiteWe discuss:The different forms that holy friendships can take and how they can impact various aspects of life. (6:00)The power of friendship in forming disciples and the importance of cultivating authentic relationships in the church. (11:39)The positive impact of spending time with friends on energy, creativity, and overall performance in various aspects of life. (16:00)The significance of mutual respect, covenant, and conversation in friendships, especially in the face of inequality and social issues. (29:44)Exploring the connection between holy friendships and institutions, highlighting the need for friendships among institutions. (34:03)Find the poem from the podcast here.About Victoria Atkinson White is the managing director of grants at Leadership Education at Duke Divinity. In this role, she encourages traditioned innovation among Christian institutions and their leaders. For eight years, Victoria was a chaplain at the 900-resident Westminster Canterbury Community in Richmond, Virginia. Before that, she worked as minister to alumni at the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond. Victoria is a graduate of Duke Divinity School, Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond and Rhodes College. She is an ordained minister affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship.Victoria is author of Holy Friendships: Nurturing Relationships That Sustain Pastors and Leaders, a book about how pastors and Christian institutional leaders serve more creatively, effectively, and joyfully when they feel supported and art of an intimate community of colleagues and friends who care about their personal and professional wellbeing.Show NotesVictoria Atkinson White is the managing director of grants at Leadership Education at Duke Divinity. In this role, she encourages traditioned innovation among Christian institutions and their leaders. Victoria is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and an ordained minister affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. She is also author of Holy Friendships: Nurturing Relationships That Sustain Pastors and Leaders.This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?