As In Heaven

Jim Davis and Justin Holcomb welcome Ligon Duncan in the first of a two-part discussion of the history of Black people in America. Duncan begins with the onset of chattel slavery in 1619 and carries us all the way to the Civil War. Understanding these historical realities will help White believers understand how they still play a part in our cultural moment and grow a greater empathy for our black brothers and sisters. The group discusses:Introduction and background for Ligon (1:10)How chattel slavery began (2:43)Africans selling other Africans into slavery (8:40)Tribal identity and the slave trade (11:27)Conditions on slave ships (13:30)Impact of slavery on the early colonies (17:53)Slave Codes (23:00)How the Bible was misused to support slavery (27:07)People and movements who fueled abolition (33:34)How slavery and segregation affected the development of churches and denominations (38:00)The fundamental purpose of the Civil War (43:53)The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 and Dred Scott vs. Sandford (48:21)Ligon Duncan’s personal journey (52:13)Explore more from TGC on the topics of Race and Slavery.

In this episode of As in Heaven, Jim Davis and guest host, Skyler Flowers, welcome Darryl Williamson to continue the conversation on race and justice.Williamson addresses the wide spectrum of opinions on the race issue and our tendency to try to find voices that agree with our preconceived notions. He claims the antidote is a posture of empathetic listening, which he unpacks with examples from his own life in a very pastoral and charitable way. The group discusses:Introduction and background for Darryl (1:25)Understanding the Black experience in America (4:02)Societal institutions and the Black experience (10:39)No monolithic Black perspective or experience (15:24)The bell curve of Black opinion on race and justice (21:55)Processing a spectrum of voices, including social media (24:35)Loving interaction with the full spectrum of opinions (30:14)Encouragement for those on the extremes of the spectrum (35:00)Understanding confirmation bias (41:55)Practicing gospel listening (47:30)Explore more from TGC on the topic of Race. Check out a panel discussion, including Darryl Williamson, titled “Learning from Jesus on Justice.”Discussion Questions:1. On the topic of race, which voices do you most frequently listen to? Where do you listen to them and why? 2. In light of the discussion on a black bell curve, which side of the curve would you place the voices you most frequently listen to? For those black voices whom you disagree with, how do you come to find out about their perspectives?3. What should our posture be when engaging with different voices on this topic, especially those that disagree with us? What are postures that are unhelpful? 4. Do you think it is important to engage with voices across the spectrum of voices? What are ways to do this?5. How should our conversations differ from the world? How should this affect the world around us?

Trevin Wax drills down on his idea of multi-directional leadership and how it relates to our national conversation on race and justice. He helps us understand some of the dangers on either side of the political spectrum on this topic as well as the relative proportional size of those respective threats. Wax shows us how the historic black church offers us a paradigm for cultural engagement in our secular age and encourages us to embrace a posture of humility as we enter into these challenging conversations.The group addresses:Introduction and background for Trevin (1:30)Defining multi-directional leadership (3:43)Speaking prophetically as a leader (6:36)Application to race conversations (11:06)Racial injustice and evangelicalism (15:04)Evangelicalism and Black Lives Matter (19:35)Problematic associations in race conversations (23:38)Barriers to engaging in this conversation well (27:34)Differences between the Civil Rights Movement and Black Lives Matter (34:00)Learning from the historically Black church (39:25)Questions to discuss with your family and community:1. How would you define a one-directional leader? What are the threats of one-directional leadership? How would you define multi-directional leadership? 2. What are examples we see in the Bible of multi-directional leadership? How were Paul and James talking about the same doctrine of justification but guarding that doctrine from different errors from opposite directions?3. What do you view as the greatest threat to the American church today? Which side of the spectrum do you most naturally see these threats coming from?4. If you were to stray from biblical orthodoxy (right beliefs or doctrine) or orthopraxy (right or ethical actions or behaviors) on one side of the field, which way would it be? What are ways you can bring voices into your life that would help with that drift?5. How can we apply the principles of multi-directional leadership to how we process uppercase “Black Lives Matter” (the organization) and lowercase “black lives matter” (the statement of human dignity)?6. As the church loses the cultural authority it has enjoyed, what are ways it can learn to lead and lead “from the margins”? How does the historic black church help us in this leading from the margins?

Isaac Adams unpacks certain painful aspects of the broken trust in American culture and in the church. He talks about the challenges of being profiled, leaned upon as people’s “one black friend,” de facto segregated society, redlining, over-policing, and the long tail of the cumulative effects of these and a number of other things. Adams  explains how public videos like George Floyd elicit secondary trauma in black persons due to other negative incidents from their own lives, as well as the ways in which there is a greater collective cultural dynamic. Adams unpacks the ways in which people interpret data and encourages how it relates to humility, compassion, and kindness. Encouraging us to believe black people when they share their experiences instead of putting them on trial, Adams also urges us to pray for human flourishing in this cultural moment, sharing why he started United? We Pray.The hosts and Isaac Adams discuss:Introduction and background for Isaac (1:51)“Why is there so much anger out there?” (3:36)Factors (injustices) that fuel anger (8:14)Black people in plain sight, yet unseen (13:00)Basic primer on historical racial pains (13:36)Redlining, accumulated wealth, over-policing, and a growing national concern (16:58)The symbolism of a police knee on a George Floyd’s neck (22:04)Why we should care (26:52)Personal experiences of racism in Israel Adams’ life (28:49)Continuing to care when you feel overwhelmed (30:50)Engaging the conversation in a redemptive manner (34:38)United We Pray—encouragement to pray together through these issues (40:30)A hopeful vision for the church in these volatile times (45:01)Questions to discuss with your family and community:1. What might be factors that limit our perspective on other cultures? What factors might limit our perspective on acts of injustice? 2. When you think of a racist action, what type of things come to your mind? How might other ethnicities answer this question differently? 3. How might Christians lead on issues of injustice? How would that be different than what the world has to offer? 4. What can we do on this matter that would make the world say, “Wow, look at the way they love each other”? 5. End in prayer. Pray for our country, city, and community. Pray that God would make these places where justice thrives. Pray that God would open our hearts to hear the instruction and rebuke of voices that are different from ours. Pray that God would make us more loving in our listening, speaking, and care for one another, that the world may see our good deeds and glorify God.

Crawford Loritts shares how love is a preamble for why we ought to care about the conversation about race and justice. He explains why love means that we don’t just get to walk away from the conversation and how black people have no choice whether to have it or not. Loritts helps frame the conversation while providing excellent working definitions for a number of challenging, technical terms. The hosts and Crawford Loritts discuss:Introductions and the basics (1:51)Why we do cultural exegesis (4:53)Comprehend, Commend, and Critique (7:36)Defining “race” (11:05)Biblical distinctions within definitions regarding race (13:14)Biological fiction, sociological reality (16:01)The problem with being “colorblind” (18:36)The sin of partiality (23:01)Breaking down partiality (26:35)Omission and Commission (32:29)The subtleness and seductiveness of sin (36:14)Justice (40:04)White Privilege (45:58)White Fragility (51:18)Framing Our Cultural Moment (54:44)Questions to discuss with your family and community:1. Why are each of the three components of good cultural exegesis necessary (comprehend, commend, and critique)? Why is it important for Christians to do cultural exegesis? What happens when cultural exegesis involves only critique but little to no comprehension or commendation?2. What does the Bible say about racism, and how did racism manifest itself in the early church?3. What sin is at the heart of racism?4. What practical ways do the Scriptures offer to kill racism at the heart level?5. What is the biblical definition of justice and how does it apply to our cultural moment?6. Peter writes on how we should deal with each other by writing, “Clothe yourself with humility.” How does it apply to our conversations and relationships with people of different ethnicities?

As in Heaven, hosted by Jim Davis and Michael Aitcheson, is a new podcast in The Gospel Coalition podcast network. Jim, Mike, and guest co-hosts will talk with more than two dozen ministry leaders about how to faithfully process our national conversation on race and justice. These conversations will help listeners think through racial justice biblically, historically, and relationally. Our prayer is that our spheres of influence would be places that look more like God’s kingdom—where love reigns, humanity flourishes, and Christ is glorified.Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Tune in to Episode 01 with Crawford Loritts on Monday, October 5.

Today’s guests are Dee Coleman and Lindsey Holcomb. Both of them serve at Samaritan Village, Dee as the executive director and Lindsey as the communications coordinator. According to their website, Samaritan Village is a safe home and therapeutic program for adult survivors of sex trafficking.This episode is by far one of the most eye-opening, emotional, and practical on the podcast thus far. There were several moments where all of us in the room were left speechless as Dee and Lindsey unpacked the realities of sex trafficking in 2020, specifically in Orlando.We don’t intend for this episode to invoke fear, but simply to educate and encourage action for those who’ve been victimized by this unspeakable practice. As a disclaimer, the following conversation includes descriptions of sexual abuse and content some listeners or young ears may find unsettling. Listener discretion is advised.

Our guest on this episode is Dr. Scott Swain. Dr. Swain is President and James Woodrow Hassell Professor of Systematic Theology at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida.He unpacks some of the origin story of Reformed Theological Seminary, how he strives to maintain a healthy organizational culture among a diverse staff, and how he thinks through the future of theological education.It was a pleasure to pick Dr. Swain’s brain on this episode, and we’re glad he agreed to chat.

Today’s guest is Damein Schitter. He’s Senior Pastor at New City Presbyterian Church here in Orlando. He is also a visiting professor at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, where he teaches evangelism. In this interview, Damein dives into the way Christians conceive of and practice discipleship. Rather than just a few spiritual disciplines, Damein details how churches and Christians should be seeking a whole-life discipleship. If Christ is Lord of all of our lives, our discipleship practices must reach into the workplace, our home lives, our finances, and our leisure time. Damein has thought and written a lot on this issue, and it was great to have him on the show to explain it.

Today’s guest is Zach Van Dyke. Zach is the teaching pastor at Summit Church Herndon Campus. He also teaches for Key Life and can be heard weekly on the nationally syndicated radio program Steve Brown, Etc.Zach began his tenure at Summit in the wake of an abrupt succession and eventual tragedy surrounding the previous pastor, leaving much of his congregation reeling. In this interview, he discusses how he navigated the difficult waters of trauma at his church, how Summit successfully reaches and nurtures millennial Christians, and how he processes Orlando’s increasingly post-Christian culture.Zach is a humble, down-to-earth guy who clearly has a massive heart for both his congregation and his city. We really loved the time we got to spend with him.