
Innovative Legal Leadership
Innovative Legal Leadership is the podcast dedicated to the world’s most innovative General Counsel and their leadership teams. In this show, you’ll hear best practices in running a Fortune 500 inhouse legal department: the challenges, wins, roadblocks and what lies ahead.
Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Latest episodes

Jan 3, 2023 • 49min
Dr. Elouise Epstein: Kearney — Revisiting The Changing Landscape of Legal and Procurement
The pandemic forced the entire world to pivot on a moment’s notice, but perhaps no other industry felt the brunt of its impact like procurement.
Procurement and legal have always had a rocky partnership. But the pandemic reset expectations by driving innovation, both in technology and relationships.
Dr. Elouise Epstein, Partner at Kearney and author of Trade wars, pandemics, and chaos, shares how procurement was forced to fast-forward its digital transformation in a world turned upside down.
Join us as we discuss:
- How the pandemic accelerated procurement’s evolution (2:42)
- Bridging the legal-procurement gap through relationships (20:20)
- The impact of ESG initiatives on the future of procurement (32:55)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
- Dr. Elouise Epstein
- Kearney
- Trade wars, pandemics, and chaos: How digital procurement enables business success in a disordered world
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.
Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Dec 27, 2022 • 37min
Cynthia Lareine: PERSUIT — Bridging Client and Law Firm Values
Cynthia Lareine, Director of Community Development at PERSUIT, fanned a fire in her resolve from a young age. The daughter of proud Nigerian parents, Cynthia endured discrimination from students and teachers alike while attending boarding school. Later, she handled her share of well-meaning depreciation and racial assumptions as a junior associate.
Today, she’s applying the lessons she’s learned to help improve legal relationships and push the industry toward a brighter future.
Cynthia shares how her formative experiences pushed her to where she is today and her passion for bridging the gaps in legal-client services.
Join us as we discuss:
- How childhood discrimination influenced her career path (3:44)
- The pressures endured by junior associates at large firms (10:02)
- Her work with the African legal community and PERSUIT (23:00)
- Cynthia’s future as the podcast’s host (37:03)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
- Cynthia Lareine
- PERSUIT
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.
Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Dec 20, 2022 • 43min
Sabrina Nguyen: Danone UK & Ireland — Peeling Back Cultural Layers
For Sabrina Nguyen , General Counsel and CCO at Danone UK & Ireland , the odds were stacked against her on day one. Born in post-war Vietnam, she and her mother spent three years in refugee camps before finding a new life in America.
But after growing up among the farmlands of Missouri, she felt the pull back to her international roots.
Sabrina shares the experiences of her career journey across three continents and the impact her cultural immersion has had on her work and with her teams.
Join us as we discuss:
How Sabrina’s background influenced her career journey (5:14)
Peeling back cultural layers in international teams (14:07)
Weighing potential against experience when evaluating talent (26:18)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
Sabrina Nguyen
Danone UK & Ireland
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Dec 13, 2022 • 41min
Doug Barnard: CF Industries — Overseeing an IPO That Grew Faster Than Google
When Doug Barnard , Senior Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary at CF Industries , joined the company in 2004, he was already fighting an uphill battle.
On the verge of bankruptcy, the owners of CF were determined to sell the company. But Doug saw an opportunity - why not take the company public? In 2005, Doug’s vision became a reality as CF Industries presented its IPO, turning CF’s fortunes around in the process.
In this episode, Doug shares his experience participating in his first successful IPO and what legacy he’d like to leave behind.
Join us as we discuss:
Drafting the CF Industries IPO prospectus (6:48)
A harrowing four-way takeover battle (14:05)
Recruitment and retention of in-house legal talent (23:56)
Leaving a proud legacy with your team (30:31)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
Doug Barnard
CF Industries
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Dec 6, 2022 • 1h 5min
Thomas Barothy: Former UBS — A COO’s Shared Strategic Vision in Legal Operations
Big legal departments have plenty of brainpower, but any team without direction is doomed to underachieve.
That’s why the powers that be at UBS asked Thomas Barothy to bring his financial management expertise to his current role with them as Chief Operating Officer of Legal.
By painting a clear vision and implementing a proper strategy for his legal department, Thomas helped his supportive team reach their true potential.
Join us as we discuss:
Pivoting a financial background into legal (5:01)
How to approach team members resistant to change (26:10)
Advice for those starting their journey in legal operations (42:11)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
Thomas Barothy
UBS
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nov 29, 2022 • 35min
Jackie Rice: MillerKnoll — Getting Comfortable With Being Uncomfortable
In days past, in-house legal was traditionally seen as a “last resort” for up-and-coming lawyers.
While that mindset is fading, corporate in-house legal teams are constantly exposed to unique challenges, especially when it's a small team stretched to its limits.
Jackie Rice, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary at MillerKnoll, tells us about her transition from a large team at General Motors to her smaller IP-focused team and setting them up for success.
Join us as we discuss:
Learning core competencies in a new industry (6:19)
Her priorities in transitioning to her new role as GC (18:54)
Alleviating her team’s duties with tech and automation (24:16)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
Jackie Rice
MillerKnoll
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nov 22, 2022 • 48min
Maurus Schreyvogel — Former Novartis: Operational Excellence in Legal
Early on in his legal career at Novartis, Maurus Schreyvogel encountered a frustrating obstacle. The legal team had no tools, no technology, no access to knowledge, and consequently, they found themselves reinventing the wheel over and over.
It was so frustrating, in fact, that he was prepared to leave the company. Instead, he was presented with a mission that convinced him to stay: Establish transparency and bring about positive operational change within legal.
He has remained at Novartis ever since. In his current capacity of Chief Legal Innovation Officer, he is working to set the vision for how law can help society operate more equitably in the future.
We discuss:
- Auditing the legal function to bring about operational change
- Focusing on value rather than cost
- Legal’s role in the digital transformation journey
- Transforming into collaborators instead of counselors
- Increasing access to law for all
Hear more stories by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nov 15, 2022 • 43min
Standard Bank Group: Rene Du Preez — Test Your Boundaries When Things Get Scary
As a child of young parents, Rene Du Preez always felt she had to jump right in and give her all with everything she did.
Rene started her career as the only female associate at her first South African law firm in the early 90s. Since then, the GC at Standard Bank Group has become an advocate and mentor for other African women breaking into the field.
Rene shares with us how her experiences in investment and retail banking helped shape her as a leader and a champion for change in the African legal space.
Join us as we discuss:
Takeaways from Rene’s experience with multiple South African firms (8:42)
Technology and workplace pivots post-pandemic (21:04)
Doing away with time sheets in favor of outcome-driven expenses (32:00)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
Rene Du Preez
Standard Bank Group
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop and can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nov 8, 2022 • 37min
Alex Su: Ironclad — The Sh*twork in Measuring Profitability
With nearly 100 thousand TikTok followers and over 5 million likes, Alex Su is one of several young professionals leading the charge for change in legal through social media.
The Head of Community Development at Ironclad and columnist for Above The Law also caused a stir when his article, Profitable Misery, went viral this summer.
In this episode, Alex shares his thoughts on technology, the hourly rate, and the “sh*twork" often attached to it.
Join us as we discuss:
The Profitable Misery article and the billable hour disconnect (4:23)
Younger generations forcing change in billing practices (14:53)
Shedding the self-imposed lawyer identity (26:29)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
Alex Su
Ironclad
Above The Law
Profitable Misery
Legaltechbro (Alex’s TikTok)
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nov 3, 2022 • 39min
American Family Insurance: Asya Alexandrovich — Be Faster than Change
Asya Alexandrovich developed a deep appreciation for the American legal system after immigrating to the U.S. as a young teenager. Her Ukrainian upbringing instilled resilience and determination that helped push her through the ranks of the in-house legal field.
Today, as Chief Legal Officer for American Family Insurance in Madison, Wisconsin, she leads the charge in guiding her team to find solutions for their customers.
Join us as we discuss:
The Ukrainian-American dynamic in Asya’s career path (3:50)
Innovation hacks for risk management and problem-solving (15:48)
Why empathy is a critical leadership quality in tough times (31:44)
Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:
Asya Alexandrovich
American Family Insurance
Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
Save insights instantly, chat with episodes, and build lasting knowledge - all powered by AI.