Unbundled Attorney Mastermind

Episode 44: The Economics of Unbundling Your Estate Practice: Taking a Close Look at the Profitability of Flexible “Pay-As-You-Go” Fee Structures Ross Tew is an estate attorney out of Dallas/Ft Worth, TX who believes in being flexible and taking a problem solving approach to the way he works for his clients. Today, Ross joins us to share the creative ways he works with clients. He describes how he breaks cases up into billable segments and allows clients to pay-as-they-go. He will also let clients in certain cases pay his fees out of the settlement of the estate. Let’s take a close look at how this degree of flexibility has improved the profitability of his practice. The results, as you will hear, are astounding. To read a complete transcript of this interview, click here In this episode, you’ll learn: How Ross became interested in estate and property work His philosophy of flexibility and willingness to find creative ways to serve his clients, and how this shows up in his practice Why Ross has chosen to stop accepting credit card payments His reasons for offering the majority of his services as a flat fee and why his clients appreciate that How Ross is able to get his fees paid from the settlement of an estate in certain cases which allows him to limit the upfront cost of his services for his clients How he manages cash flow from smaller cases which enables him to be patient about collecting fees that aren’t paid out until the estate is settled Ross’s thoughts about the access to justice problem in this country, and why he believes it’s important for attorneys to find creative ways to work with clients within their budget How being a solo practitioner enables him to take a client-centered, problem solving approach The ways in which Ross can break up his case into specific billable segments so he doesn’t have to require clients to pay a large retainer up front Examples of cases where he can offer “pay-as-you-go” options, and the types of separate billable segments he creates for some clients Why so many lawyers don’t offer these unbundled and flexible payment options The approximate numbers of additional clients he has been able to take on because of the flexible payment options he offers, and how this impacts the overall profitability of his practice His feelings about being able to offer services to so many orphans and widows that would otherwise be unable to obtain the legal help they need at very emotional times in their lives A broad vision for how just a few lawyers who share actual numbers on their profitability from unbundled legal services will gradually turn the tide on the number of attorneys introducing these options in their practice, and the impact this has on access to justice nationwide And much more… If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 43: A Discussion with the Founder of Unbundled Legal Services, Forrest “Woody” Mosten: Exploring the History and Exciting Future of Unbundling Considered to be the founder of the “Unbundled” concept, Forrest “Woody” Mosten has spent the last 20+ years advocating for the awareness and ethical acceptance of unbundled legal services. Today Woody joins us to share the background and history of unbundled legal services, and how it is positioned to have a tremendous impact on access to justice in the future. He gives us a fundamental understanding of what the core unbundled services offerings are, including examples of what he offers in his own practice. We share a ton of resources, websites, books, and training that help educate attorneys on how to ethically and effectively deliver unbundled services in their practice. To read a complete transcript of this interview, click here In this episode, you’ll learn: The story of the genesis of unbundled legal services, including how Woody came up with the name and how the first ethics opinions were released by the ABA How Woody uses popsicle sticks to teach unbundled services to his students Woody’s 7 core unbundled service options, and how to implement each of them in your own practice Why he considers “Advising Client” to be the fundamental unbundled service that often goes overlooked and underutilized in the average lawyer’s practice How Woody defines the difference between “Discovery” and “Gathering Facts”, and how you can start to think about offering each as separate discrete tasks Why unbundled was once considered to be a standalone service separate from litigation, but has now become a valuable service option for both uncontested and contested legal matters How to offer “Negotiation” as an unbundled service, and the different ways you can assist your clients by handling this aspect of their case How drafting documents can encompass a lot more than just preparing court forms and documents The value of offering to write letters for your clients, either as a ghostwriter or on your law firm letterhead How judges influenced Woody to change his mind about the value of attorneys offering to make a limited appearance for their clients A breakdown of organizations and committees that provide valuable information for lawyers and have been instrumental in the growth and acceptance of unbundled legal services The topics Woody covers in his most recent book “Unbundled Legal Services: A Family Lawyer's Guide” How unbundled legal services helps attorneys build a more profitable practice Some of the barriers that still need to be overcome in order for unbundled legal services to be offered by a greater number of attorneys Details on the first national training for unbundled legal services taught by Woody coming up during March in Chicago An invitation for a “Round Two” discussion with Woody on law schools, incubators, and how to educate and inspire our next generation of attorneys to offer unbundled legal services in their practice And much more… Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Neutral Zone #unbundlenow (Twitter) Dave Gross’s Podcast (Limited appearances) Thomas King’s Podcast (Offering unbundled and limited appearances in traditional courts) Unbundling Resource Center - ABA Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services Forrest Mosten's Article - Unbundled Services to Enhance Peacemaking for Divorcing Families IAALS - Materials from Better Access Through Unbundling Conference Forrest Mosten’s Website Forrest Mosten’s Newest Book: Unbundled Legal Services: A Family Lawyer's Guide AFCC (Association of Family and Conciliation Courts) Building a Successful Unbundling Practice Training - March 5-6th, 2018 in Chicago, IL Blog post with resources mentioned and a complete transcription of this interview If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 42: Automating Client Follow Up: How You Can Leverage Email Management Systems to Easily Stay in Touch with New Prospects and Clients Every day clients are contacting your office to meet with you for consultations. Some of these clients retain your services right away, but what about the rest? Most law firms fail to follow up with prospects who do not call back or are not retained immediately. It is a task that often doesn’t get done because it takes too much time. What if there is a way to automatically stay in touch with these prospects at the click of a button? Today, Chicago, IL family law attorney, Robert Buchanan, joins our show and explains how lawyers can easily leverage email management systems and automate client follow up. By applying these systems, attorneys can stay connected with and ultimately be retained by clients they met days, weeks, or even months earlier. We also discuss valuable lessons Robert has learned when considering acquiring associate-attorneys and partners. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why Robert elected to end the partnership he created, and hear his valuable advice for lawyers who are considering partnering with another attorney Some of the benefits from being a solo practitioner compared to building a large law firm Tools he uses to complete forms and documents faster and more efficiently How to identify areas of your practice that can be streamlined or automated How text expanders on your mobile phone help you respond much faster to emails and text messages A complete walkthrough of how to set up a “Zap” that subscribes each lead to an autoresponder that sends a series of emails to your Unbundled Attorney leads automatically The benefits and applications of email marketing, including automatic follow ups with uncontacted leads and clients who do not enroll during the initial consultation Examples of emails Robert uses in his email auto-responder series The difference between a newsletter vs a broadcast email, and how to effectively implement both in your email marketing strategy The topics Robert covers in his broadcast emails, and his tips on how to write unique and relevant emails The three service options he offers clients, what they cost, and what is included How offering unbundled services reduces some of the stress from being a family law attorney A discussion about paying associate attorneys hourly vs salary, and why Robert elects to pay his associates a salary Some book recommendations for building a systemized and leveraged practice And much more… Resources Mentioned in This Episode The Form Tool Zapier Brian Reidy’s Podcast Episode E-Myth Attorney Book If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 41: Delivering Unbundled Services Safely and Ethically: Guidelines for Retainer Agreements, Limited Appearances, and Being Proactive with Traditional Courts When Thomas King started his own practice, he saw an opportunity in the market to provide assistance for clients trying to handle cases by themselves using the internet. Now with the help of Unbundled Attorney, Thomas built a thriving practice by delivering clients a full range of unbundled legal services. However, being an effective provider of unbundled services comes with its own challenges. Today, Thomas joins our show to help lawyers understand how to deliver unbundled options both ethically and effectively. We discuss how to structure limited-scope retainer agreements, as well as best practices for offering limited appearances. Thomas also provides some very practical advice for dealing with traditional courts and judges who may not be used to working with attorneys offering unbundled services. In this episode, you’ll learn: How the internet has transformed the business and practice of law, and how you can adapt to serve the expanding DIY market The different types of cases Thomas sees in family law, and how they contribute to the profitability of his practice The components of a well structured limited-scope retainer agreement The importance of reviewing limited-scope retainer agreements with your clients to ensure they are clear on the scope of your services Some of the challenges you can face in courts not used to working with attorneys who provide unbundled services, and how to protect yourself How to identify which courts and judges may require additional communication and documentation to prevent misunderstandings about the scope of your representation The types of letters and documentation Thomas uses to inform courts of unbundled services or limited appearances being offered How to turn late night and weekend leads into your highest converting clients How to set proper boundaries and expectations when providing clients with your cell phone number, or responding after business hours The criteria Thomas uses to decide if he will work with a client Suggestions on when to offer flat rates versus hourly billing Some important considerations for hiring contract lawyers or expanding into new regions, including why hiring contract lawyers did not work for him How to effectively and profitably offer limited appearances for your clients When Thomas uses teleconferences and other creative solutions to appear in court for clients on a limited budget How he explains to his clients the value of retaining him for a limited appearance And much more… If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 40: The “Try It Before You Buy It” Enrollment Strategy: A Unique Sales Approach That Could Skyrocket Your Lead Conversion Rate After working with Unbundled Attorney as a solo practitioner for over a year, Anthony Saunders decided to take a break to close up his practice and start working with a local Salt Lake City, UT law firm as an associate. When Anthony started working with us again he implemented a new sales strategy that enables him to consistently convert an astounding 80% or more of his leads into paying clients. What is even more impressive is 90% of those clients end up retaining him for full representation. Today Anthony joins us on the show to share exactly how he has been able to accomplish such incredible numbers, including his unique “try it before you buy it” approach to enrolling his clients. He also offers over 20 different unbundled service options, and outlines what each of these options are and what he typically charges. To read the complete transcript of this interview, click here In this episode, you’ll learn: Why Anthony decided to open a solo practice immediately after graduating from law school How Unbundled Attorney’s lead generation service helped launch the growth of his practice Why Anthony started offering unbundled services to his clients, and how this has allowed him to fulfill on his desire to help people in a cost-effective manner His “try it before you buy it” sales approach, and why it has been so incredibly effective at converting his leads into paying clients The value of breaking each case into segments so you can focus on delivering services one segment at a time Why Anthony will not discuss providing full representation with any of his clients until after he has delivered an unbundled service for them A complete breakdown of 15+ unbundled services that he offers, including exact pricing for each option The benefits and importance of delivering unbundled services at a flat rate Why Anthony’s “try it before you buy it” approach makes it so much easier for clients to refer his services to their friends and family The payment options he offers to his clients when they are unable to pay the entire flat rate up front How to train new associates or contract lawyers to deliver unbundled services by narrowing their focus to the task at hand The value of drafting a timeline for each client’s case so they know exactly what needs to be done Why 90% of the clients that enroll for unbundled services transition to retaining him for full representation The different types of payment options he offers to his full representation clients And much more… If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 39: Expand Your Practice into New Regions Using Contract Lawyers and a Virtual Client Enrollment, Intake, and Management System After launching his practice early in 2017 in the Hudson Valley, NY, Alexander Keenan quickly expanded to serve the nearby metropolitan Albany, NY community despite the fact that he lives 2-3 hours away. After trying to manage the travel time involved, Alex decided to hire contract lawyers to serve his clients in those courts farthest from his office. The relationships he forged with his contract lawyers are so successful that Alex is now working on expanding his practice into the metro areas of Rochester, Syracuse, and Buffalo, NY. Today he joins us on the show to explain the process he uses to hire and train new contract lawyers, who are helping him to significantly expand the reach of his practice. He also discusses his “streamlined” virtual enrollment process utilizing technology that enables him to enroll and manage clients from literally anywhere in the world. To read the complete transcript of this interview, click here. In this episode, you’ll learn: How a virtual office can help you expand into a new region with minimal overhead The importance of acquiring a local area code phone line, and how to do it How to “batch” your appointments when they are long distances from your office How to source potential contract lawyers from Craigslist and Indeed The pay structure Alex uses with his three contract lawyers The philosophy behind representing “working families”, and how to ensure that your contract lawyers embody this philosophy during the hiring process Tips and advice for hiring great contract lawyers, including how to screen for attorneys that will communicate empathy to your clients How to handle the “hand-off” to a contract lawyer during the initial phone consultation The systems Alex has developed using Lexicata, Clio and LawPay to create a streamlined online enrollment and intake process Why taking additional time during your initial phone consultation makes it more likely to enroll the lead right over the phone The importance of scheduling a client conference with a contract lawyer that same week How to use Clio to “assign” clients to a specific contract lawyer, so the contractor only sees those clients who have been assigned to them and no one else The benefits of offering “Layaway” payment options, how to determine the best times to offer them, and when not to, and learn how Alex explains Layaway to his clients And much more… Resources Mentioned in this Episode Clio LawPay Lexicata Vonage If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 38: Fundamentals of Closing the Deal: Sales Strategies That Help Solidify Relationships and Retain More Clients New Jersey attorney Matt Rosen has the “sales gene.” Not just because his father was a successful corporate salesman, but because of his extensive background in sales and many years studying the art of building rapport with clients and closing the deal. Today Matt joins us on the show to discuss some of these core strategies, and how they have helped him consistently convert his leads into paying clients. We also discuss the many challenges of starting a new practice, investing in advertising with a limited budget, and how working the leads from Unbundled Attorney has helped him develop the knowledge and experience to overcome these barriers. To read the complete transcript of this interview, click here. In this episode, you’ll learn: How Matt Rosen’s past work with the Peace Corp influenced his practice Why utilizing a lead generation service lends itself well to developing optimized systems for your practice Matt’s exact process for contacting each lead, which enables him to consistently convert 30-40% of his leads into paying clients Questions you can ask to qualify your clients during the initial call How understanding the law of averages removes the pressure from feeling like you have to convert every lead, especially when you first get started Strategies for relating to clients with confidence Why fielding leads is an opportunity for new lawyers to develop core competencies by getting a great deal of hands-on client and court experience Strategies that improve your sales ability, regardless of whether sales come naturally to you or not What it takes to start a practice from scratch, and what Matt has gone through to overcome some of those startup barriers The importance of respecting your clients, particularly by giving them enough space to make their own decision on whether to retain you or not How to make your clients feel more comfortable and become a calming and stabilizing force How working for Greenpeace in the streets of NYC taught Matt about learning to overcome “No’s,” and fear of rejection The value of making your website, appearance, and overall brand consistent And much more… If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 37: Running a Leveraged Solo Practice from Home: Hiring Staff and Delegating Tasks, Adaptive Payment Options, and Enrolling Clients Over the Phone Lisa Brown began working with Unbundled Attorney less than two years ago. During this time, she transitioned from handling 100% of her practice alone to hiring a team of trained and competent staff to support her. Today Lisa walks us through her procedure for successfully hiring and training new staff members, including what tasks you should delegate and which ones you should not. Lisa often works from home and she has developed systems that enable her to enroll the majority of her new leads over the phone, without the need for office appointments. She explains what these systems are, as well her unique approach to the first phone consultation with each lead. To read the complete transcript from this interview, click here. In this episode, you’ll learn: How to find a balance between family and business if you work from home The steps for hiring support staff, including which task you should delegate first When to hire a full-time secretary, and an effective training program to avoid losing clients in the process The most important considerations while training staff members to call leads when you are unavailable The monthly payment plan options she offers her clients, and how she communicates fee structures to the rest of her team The core strategies that enable Lisa to enroll at least ½ of her leads right over the phone How to detach from the results of each call, so you can apply your complete focus towards serving each client The creative unbundled options Lisa offers, and how she adapts these options to the needs of each client The typical retainer fees she quotes, as well as pricing for each unbundled option and different payment plans she makes available to her clients The pluses and minuses of quoting flat fees The technology and processes behind enrolling clients over the phone, including online practice management and billing tools How to ensure each client feels cared about and their case is important, especially when you are handling a high volume of cases Lome tips and tricks for tracking each case, and keeping your entire team updated every step of the way And much more… Resources Mentioned in this Episode Clio LawPay If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 36: Experienced Social Worker Turned Practicing Attorney: Active Listening, Cultivating and Communicating Empathy, and Understanding the Lifetime Value of Each Client Brian Picarello spent the first years of his professional life working as a social worker. After graduating law school in 2010 at the age of 38, Brian brings the years of experience working with clients in crisis situations to the practice of law. He explains how to become an effective active listener, including how to cultivate and communicate empathy with your clients. Brian has also been working with Unbundled Attorney since the day we launched in January of 2015, and has tracked his metrics and revenue from every lead he has received. He shares what his numbers are, and how understanding the long term, “lifetime” value of each client can inform your practice decisions and impact how you price your services. To read the complete transcript of this interview, click here. In this episode, you’ll learn: The fundamentals of active listening, and the difference between connecting with people versus trying the sell a product How to cultivate and communicate empathy for the emotional challenges your clients are facing Valuable lessons Brian has learned from other guests on the Unbundled Attorney Mastermind Podcast The importance of attorneys making the initial calls to their leads, and the only way to have staff make the call for you if you are unavailable to do so The two categories of leads (instant gratification vs. legitimate issues), how to identify each category and how Brian’s process differs for each type of lead Brian’s revenue, contact and conversion rate numbers from 2.5 years of fielding leads from Unbundled Attorney Why analyzing his numbers and the long term value of each lead was an influential factor in Brian's decision to shift away from an “hourly retainer” mentality and start to offering more affordable pricing options The real meaning behind “lifetime value” of each client, and how this understanding can impact the way you run your practice How Brian offers limited appearances, including how he sets appropriate expectations with his clients The percentage of Brian’s business that comes from referral income, and why so many lawyers fail to take this revenue into account when evaluating a lead generation service How Unbundled Attorney compares to other lead generation companies he has worked with The biggest complaint client’s have about lawyers, and how you can prevent this from happening in your practice The value of understanding your local courts, both in your ability to be an effective lawyer, and as a selling point to your clients And much more... If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com

Episode 35: How to Compete in the DIY Internet Age: A Practical, Step-by-Step Guide to Delivering Unbundled Legal Services Efficiently and Profitably in Your Practice There is no question that YouTube and the availability of “Do It Yourself” information online continues to have a significant impact on the legal profession. There are a lot more people nowadays who are handling their cases pro se, and this trend is likely to continue for years to come. Today, Brian Reidy joins us to talk about how attorneys can adapt to this shift in the marketplace by providing unbundled legal services. He provides examples of the types of unbundled options he offers, typical price points, as well as great advice on how to convey the value of these services to your clients. We also discuss ways to leverage technology and develop a “systems mindset” that builds a more efficient and cost-effective practice. In this episode, you’ll learn: What Brian learned while working for DCFS (Department of Children and Family Services), and different ways lawyers can offer unbundled services to clients who are dealing with child abuse and neglect issues The importance of telling clients what they need to hear, and conveying to clients how important it is that they do the same with you Brian’s perspective on the changing legal marketplace, the impact of YouTube, and the increase in the number of pro se litigants nationwide Why the courts and legal community benefit from lawyers who provide unbundled legal services Why Brian switched from offering a free one-hour in-person consultation, to offering a free phone consultation and charging for the initial in-office case assessment The value of being flexible with the length of time you invest in the initial phone consultation to ensure you develop good rapport and trust with each client How to explain what unbundled legal services are and how they work to your clients’ advantage The typical unbundled services Brian provides, how much he charges, and how he determines when to offer them The importance of identifying the steps involved with each type of case you handle, and then developing systems that allow you to make each step easier and simpler How to build an efficient and cost-effective practice using technology such as electronic intake and document automation How quoting flat rates and the proper use of technology increases your effective hourly rate The value of being open to making investments in systems of efficiency that carry long term benefits for your practice The importance of calling leads in real time, and how Brian trains his staff to make the calls when he is unavailable And much more... If you enjoy this podcast, please head over to iTunes, subscribe to the show, and leave us a review. We love hearing from our listeners and look forward to reading your feedback! For more information about Unbundled Attorney and how our Lead Generation services help grow your practice, visit: https://www.unbundledattorney.com