Deviate

“You open up a map, and it’s like, ‘I could go anywhere here.’ It’s just a world of possibility.” – Ari Shaffir Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Putting together the podcast has been like swimming laps or practicing free-throws — it’s creative cross-training that benefits my broader writing pursuits, even as it allows me to explore esoteric topics that fascinate me.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate (which is remixed from Jay Acunzo’s 3 Clips podcast) Rolf and Jay talk about how a visual medium like travel gets translated to audio, and how podcasting serves Rolf’s creative career (4:00); how the walking episode differed from normal ones, and the walk naturally mixed spiritual and practical themes (10:00); how to approach an interview without an outline, creating unstructured content that is beholden to things like having to take a pee (15:00); ow smooth conversation is often the result of planning and effort, deviating yet remembering what the core topic is (22:00); using spontaneous moments in a strategic way, and how Rolf will organize and plan the podcast looking forward (34:00). Jay Acunzo has worked for companies like Google and ESPN, and his projects (such as his 3 Clips podcast) aim to demystify the creative process behind creating memorable projects, careers, and companies. Notable Links: Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Idiosyncrasies of global train travel (Deviate episode) Thich Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) Paris Writing Workshops (creative writing class) Guildhall School of Music and Drama Archive of Deviate episodes with Ari Shaffir Scriptnotes (screenwriting podcast) The Rewatchables (movie podcast) Super Bowl special (Deviate episode) Why dinosaurs matter (Deviate episode) J. Yuenger on music and long-term travel (Deviate episode) Ian MacKaye on rock music (Deviate episode) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00). Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities. For more livability tips, check out its rankings of the best small to mid-sized cities in the USA. Livability also publishes its methodology. Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA; Cincinnati, OH; Yellow Springs, OH; Athens, OH; Astoria, OR; Lincoln City, OR; Nashville, TN; Asheville, NC; Black Mountain, NC; Brevard, NC; Traverse City, MI; Marfa, TX; Charleston, SC; Bend, OR; and Hood River, OR. Notable Links: Konza Prairie (biological preserve) Tallgrass National Prairie Preserve Kanopolis State Park Stiefel Theater “One of the Coolest Cities in America Doesn’t Even Realize It Yet” (Thrillist article) Dollywood (theme park) Alicia Underlee Nelson (travel writer) Gooding (band) 1,000 Places to See Before You Die, by Patricia Shultz (book) Oregon Shakespeare Festival Transcendental Meditation Wollowa Mountains (mountain range) Terminal Gravity (brewery) Maharishi Vastu Architecture Audio contributors: Adam Karlin (Staunton, VA) Alicia Ard (Bend, OR) Sarah Bell (Phoenixville, Pennsylvania) Gooding (Kingston Springs, TN) Steven Gray (Pensacola, FL) Avery Gunns (Truth or Consequences, NM) Max Hartshorne (Northampton, MA) Michele Hermann (Buffalo, NY) Karen Hugg (Ashland, OR) Jamie-Lee Josselyn (Galena, IL) Brian Kevin (Joseph, OR and Enterprise, OR) Tim Leffel (Chattanooga, TN) Deborah Lewis (Middlebury, VT) Dinty W. Moore (Athens, OH) Chrystine Olson (Graham, NC) Patricia Schultz (Beacon, NY) Jessica Voigts (Traverse City, MI) Jason Wisdom (Fairfield, IA) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Holiday gave its writers room to tell a comprehensive story. A place was evoked in thousands of words instead of the usual 800 we are now accustomed to reading.” – Pamela Fiori In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pamela talk about the origins of Holiday Magazine, why it attracted good writers, and how its creation was connected to advertising markets (2:15); famous articles to appear in the magazine, and why it was successful (7:00); who the magazine’s audience was, how television and political-cultural changes in America affected things in the 1960s (15:00); the decline of Holiday Magazine magazine amid the economic and cultural changes of the 1970s, and why there are no archives (24:30); and the legacy of Holiday Magazine in the 21st century. Pamela Fiori made publishing history in May 1993, when she became the first woman to be named editor in chief of Town & Country, America’s oldest continuously published general-interest magazine. She is the author of Holiday: The Best Travel Magazine that Ever Was. Notable Links: Holiday Magazine (travel publication) See the USA in Your Chevrolet (song performed by Dinah Shore) The Dinah Shore Chevy Show (1950s TV show) Travels with Charley (1962 John Steinbeck travel book) Saturday Evening Post (American general-interest magazine) Ladies’ Home Journal (American women’s magazine) Curtis Publishing (American magazine publisher) Ted Patrick (magazine editor) Joan Didion (American essayist) Roger Angell (American essayist) Here is New York (essay and book by E.B. White) Mad Men (TV show about advertising) Big Sur (coastal region of central California) Travel + Leisure (American travel magazine) Mag Men, by Walter Bernard (book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In ancient Greece, entire eras were measured by Olympiads. It’s how history was arranged. The Olympics were that important.” – Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss how the ancient games was a religious festival, now it was never delayed, and why it was important (2:00) non-sports events that happened the the ancient Games, performance enhancing potions, and Greek competitiveness (17:00); the sporting events competed in the ancient games, and how they differed from modern sports (24:00); the training and diet that went into the games, aristocrats versus commoners who competed, and which ancient Olympians are still remembered (32:00); and what non-Greeks thought to the games, Greek skeptics of the games, and what it’s like to travel to the old sites of the ancient Greek games (45:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games, upon which this interview is based. Notable Links: Ancient Olympic Games (sporting festival) Olympia, Greece (location of the ancient Games) Statue of Zeus at Olympia (ancient tourist attraction) Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) Pausanias (ancient Greek geographer) Symposium (ancient Greek drinking banquet) Monty Python (British comedy troupe) Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Enkidu (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Funeral games (ancient honor ritual) Pankration (ancient fighting sport) Ben Hur (epic historical movie) Pierre de Coubertin (founder of the modern Olympics) Milo of Croton (ancient Greek wrestler) 300 (2007 epic historical movie) Battle of Thermopylae (ancient Greek battle) Diogenes the Cynic (ancient Greek philosopher) Karate gets its due at the Olympics, by Tony Perrottet (article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Don’t define your journey while you’re still on it. Be open to it. Don’t think it’s only going to be one way.” – Paul Barach In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul discuss why Paul chose Japan for a pilgrimage, and the seven categories of disciplines he used on the hike (1:40); the route and history of the Shikoku Pilgrimage (9:40); Paul’s experiences on the trail (21:00); and Paul’s lessons and regrets from the trip, including why you shouldn’t define your journey while you’re still on it (34:30). Paul Barach is a stand-up comic, storyteller, producer, and writer. He is the author of Fighting Monks and Burning Mountains, about his experience hiking the Shikoku Pilgrimage trail. Notable Links: Kūkai (Japanese Buddhist monk) Burning Mountain Temple (Shikoku pilgrimage site) Camino de Santiago (Spain pilgrimage route) Shikoku Henro Trail (online resource) Ryokan (Japanese inn) Kyokushin (karate style) Gōjū-ryū (karate style) Ichiro Suzuki (Japanese baseball player) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Travel is life’s best education, if you allow it be.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Looking Up Podcast, by Max McCoy. They discuss why travel is a great catalyst for finding direction in life (1:30); how being lonely, lost, and bored allow you to experience travel in a deeper, more vulnerable, more spiritual way (12:30); how traveling and journaling about it can focus one’s writing discipline (20:00); the relationship of one’s travels and one’s work over time (31:00); how to whet your travel appetite by finding adventures at home, and how to navigate relationships as a traveler (41:30); the weird ways souvenirs can deepen the experience and memory of travel (46:00); and Rolf’s life advice to his younger self (50:00). Max McCoy is the host of the Looking Up podcast. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) Time Wealth and the spiritual texture of travel (Deviate episode) Thomas Merton (American monk and writer) Rumi (13th-century Persian poet) Stephen King (American horror author) Astronaut pen (writing tool) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s writing classes) Geoarbitrage (lifestyle-location strategy) Robert Creeley (American poet) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) One Month On the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) Donald Barthelme (American author) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Digital nomadism is still being figured out. In twenty years digital nomadism will have a concrete reality that we can’t even predict now.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, which is excerpted from an in-progress documentary called The Nomads, filmmaker Anne von Petersdorff asks Rolf to discuss how digital nomadism is defined, how it has emerged from earlier generations of travel and human mobility, and how it is more than just a “Western” trend (3:00); how the digital nomad movement will affect the nation-state and global citizenship, and how these notions have historically always been in flux (10:00); the importance of respecting local cultures versus treating destinations as utilitarian backdrops, and how the concept of digital nomadism is changing (24:00); and what happens to the concept of “home” when one is leading a nomadic life (32:30). Anne von Petersdorff is a scholar, writer, filmmaker, and educator from Berlin, Germany. Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact producer Wade Shepard at wadeshepard@protonmail.com. Notable Links: Digital nomadism (location-independent lifestyle) Nation-state (political unit) Social welfare (government support for individuals) Go Viral (media festival in Kazakhstan) China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) In Patagonia, by Bruce Chatwin (travel book) Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) Grand Tour (upper-class 18th/19th century travel ritual) Thomas Cook (19th century travel entrepreneur) Dispatches, by Michael Herr (Vietnam War book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Stewardesses were instructed to not serve caffeinated beverages or alcohol during a hijacking, and were encouraged to use their femininity to manipulate the hijackers.” – Julia Cooke In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Julia talk about how Julia came to write a book about international airline stewardesses in the golden age of jet travel, and how commercial air travel as we know it came of age more than half a century ago (1:30); what Pan Am was, what made it special, and the role of stewardesses on the airline (11:00); the former Pan Am stewardesses that Julia interviewed, how she found them, and what she learned from them (18:30); how stewardesses foreshadowed and became a unique part of the feminist movement (26:00); how military flights, refugee flights, and hijackings were a common part of the Pan Am flight experience in the 1970s (30:00); and the research methods and surprises that came with writing Julia’s book (41:00). Julia Cooke (@juliaccooke) has written for Condé Nast Traveler, The New York Times, Playboy, The Village Voice, and The Atavist. She is the author of Come Fly The World and The Other Side of Paradise: Life in the New Cuba. More about her at https://www.juliacooke.com/ Notable Links: PanAm (airline) Eero Saarinen (architect) Paul Theroux (author) Italo Calvino (author) Second wave of feminism (social movement) The Power of Glamour, by Virginia Postrel (book) Internationalism (movement) Coffee, Tea, or Me? (fictitious 1967 memoir) The Skies Belong to Us, by Brendan I. Koerner (book) Barbara Romack (pro golfer) Flag carrier (type of airline company) Operation Babylift (1975 evacuation of children from Vietnam) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Wanderlust can dictate the course of your life.” – Dave Seminara In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dave discuss the philosophical underpinnings of wanderlust (2:00); the subculture of competitive travelers (10:00); the mystery of William Baekeland (20:00); and the impact of wanderlust on peoples’ lives (44:00). Dave Seminara is a writer and former diplomat. His latest book, Mad Travelers: A Tale of Wanderlust, Greed and the Quest to Reach the Ends of the Earth, is a deep exploration of wanderlust, focused around the true story of William Baekeland, a young Brit who conned many of the world’s most traveled people as they sought to reach the planet’s most remote and off-limits places. For more about Dave, check out his website at https://daveseminara.com. Notable Links: Most Traveled People (club) Nomadmania (club) The Travelers’ Century Club (club) Charles Veley (traveler) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.