Deviate

“Holiday gave its writers room to tell a comprehensive story. A place was evoked in thousands of words instead of the usual 800 we are now accustomed to reading.” – Pamela Fiori In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pamela talk about the origins of Holiday Magazine, why it attracted good writers, and how its creation was connected to advertising markets (2:15); famous articles to appear in the magazine, and why it was successful (7:00); who the magazine’s audience was, how television and political-cultural changes in America affected things in the 1960s (15:00); the decline of Holiday Magazine magazine amid the economic and cultural changes of the 1970s, and why there are no archives (24:30); and the legacy of Holiday Magazine in the 21st century. Pamela Fiori made publishing history in May 1993, when she became the first woman to be named editor in chief of Town & Country, America’s oldest continuously published general-interest magazine. She is the author of Holiday: The Best Travel Magazine that Ever Was. Notable Links: Holiday Magazine (travel publication) See the USA in Your Chevrolet (song performed by Dinah Shore) The Dinah Shore Chevy Show (1950s TV show) Travels with Charley (1962 John Steinbeck travel book) Saturday Evening Post (American general-interest magazine) Ladies’ Home Journal (American women’s magazine) Curtis Publishing (American magazine publisher) Ted Patrick (magazine editor) Joan Didion (American essayist) Roger Angell (American essayist) Here is New York (essay and book by E.B. White) Mad Men (TV show about advertising) Big Sur (coastal region of central California) Travel + Leisure (American travel magazine) Mag Men, by Walter Bernard (book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In ancient Greece, entire eras were measured by Olympiads. It’s how history was arranged. The Olympics were that important.” – Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss how the ancient games was a religious festival, now it was never delayed, and why it was important (2:00) non-sports events that happened the the ancient Games, performance enhancing potions, and Greek competitiveness (17:00); the sporting events competed in the ancient games, and how they differed from modern sports (24:00); the training and diet that went into the games, aristocrats versus commoners who competed, and which ancient Olympians are still remembered (32:00); and what non-Greeks thought to the games, Greek skeptics of the games, and what it’s like to travel to the old sites of the ancient Greek games (45:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games, upon which this interview is based. Notable Links: Ancient Olympic Games (sporting festival) Olympia, Greece (location of the ancient Games) Statue of Zeus at Olympia (ancient tourist attraction) Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) Pausanias (ancient Greek geographer) Symposium (ancient Greek drinking banquet) Monty Python (British comedy troupe) Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Enkidu (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Funeral games (ancient honor ritual) Pankration (ancient fighting sport) Ben Hur (epic historical movie) Pierre de Coubertin (founder of the modern Olympics) Milo of Croton (ancient Greek wrestler) 300 (2007 epic historical movie) Battle of Thermopylae (ancient Greek battle) Diogenes the Cynic (ancient Greek philosopher) Karate gets its due at the Olympics, by Tony Perrottet (article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Don’t define your journey while you’re still on it. Be open to it. Don’t think it’s only going to be one way.” – Paul Barach In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul discuss why Paul chose Japan for a pilgrimage, and the seven categories of disciplines he used on the hike (1:40); the route and history of the Shikoku Pilgrimage (9:40); Paul’s experiences on the trail (21:00); and Paul’s lessons and regrets from the trip, including why you shouldn’t define your journey while you’re still on it (34:30). Paul Barach is a stand-up comic, storyteller, producer, and writer. He is the author of Fighting Monks and Burning Mountains, about his experience hiking the Shikoku Pilgrimage trail. Notable Links: Kūkai (Japanese Buddhist monk) Burning Mountain Temple (Shikoku pilgrimage site) Camino de Santiago (Spain pilgrimage route) Shikoku Henro Trail (online resource) Ryokan (Japanese inn) Kyokushin (karate style) Gōjū-ryū (karate style) Ichiro Suzuki (Japanese baseball player) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Travel is life’s best education, if you allow it be.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Looking Up Podcast, by Max McCoy. They discuss why travel is a great catalyst for finding direction in life (1:30); how being lonely, lost, and bored allow you to experience travel in a deeper, more vulnerable, more spiritual way (12:30); how traveling and journaling about it can focus one’s writing discipline (20:00); the relationship of one’s travels and one’s work over time (31:00); how to whet your travel appetite by finding adventures at home, and how to navigate relationships as a traveler (41:30); the weird ways souvenirs can deepen the experience and memory of travel (46:00); and Rolf’s life advice to his younger self (50:00). Max McCoy is the host of the Looking Up podcast. Notable Links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) Time Wealth and the spiritual texture of travel (Deviate episode) Thomas Merton (American monk and writer) Rumi (13th-century Persian poet) Stephen King (American horror author) Astronaut pen (writing tool) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s writing classes) Geoarbitrage (lifestyle-location strategy) Robert Creeley (American poet) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) One Month On the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (essay) Donald Barthelme (American author) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Digital nomadism is still being figured out. In twenty years digital nomadism will have a concrete reality that we can’t even predict now.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, which is excerpted from an in-progress documentary called The Nomads, filmmaker Anne von Petersdorff asks Rolf to discuss how digital nomadism is defined, how it has emerged from earlier generations of travel and human mobility, and how it is more than just a “Western” trend (3:00); how the digital nomad movement will affect the nation-state and global citizenship, and how these notions have historically always been in flux (10:00); the importance of respecting local cultures versus treating destinations as utilitarian backdrops, and how the concept of digital nomadism is changing (24:00); and what happens to the concept of “home” when one is leading a nomadic life (32:30). Anne von Petersdorff is a scholar, writer, filmmaker, and educator from Berlin, Germany. Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact producer Wade Shepard at wadeshepard@protonmail.com. Notable Links: Digital nomadism (location-independent lifestyle) Nation-state (political unit) Social welfare (government support for individuals) Go Viral (media festival in Kazakhstan) China and Mongolia with my parents (Deviate episode) In Patagonia, by Bruce Chatwin (travel book) Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea (Deviate episode) @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) Grand Tour (upper-class 18th/19th century travel ritual) Thomas Cook (19th century travel entrepreneur) Dispatches, by Michael Herr (Vietnam War book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Stewardesses were instructed to not serve caffeinated beverages or alcohol during a hijacking, and were encouraged to use their femininity to manipulate the hijackers.” – Julia Cooke In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Julia talk about how Julia came to write a book about international airline stewardesses in the golden age of jet travel, and how commercial air travel as we know it came of age more than half a century ago (1:30); what Pan Am was, what made it special, and the role of stewardesses on the airline (11:00); the former Pan Am stewardesses that Julia interviewed, how she found them, and what she learned from them (18:30); how stewardesses foreshadowed and became a unique part of the feminist movement (26:00); how military flights, refugee flights, and hijackings were a common part of the Pan Am flight experience in the 1970s (30:00); and the research methods and surprises that came with writing Julia’s book (41:00). Julia Cooke (@juliaccooke) has written for Condé Nast Traveler, The New York Times, Playboy, The Village Voice, and The Atavist. She is the author of Come Fly The World and The Other Side of Paradise: Life in the New Cuba. More about her at https://www.juliacooke.com/ Notable Links: PanAm (airline) Eero Saarinen (architect) Paul Theroux (author) Italo Calvino (author) Second wave of feminism (social movement) The Power of Glamour, by Virginia Postrel (book) Internationalism (movement) Coffee, Tea, or Me? (fictitious 1967 memoir) The Skies Belong to Us, by Brendan I. Koerner (book) Barbara Romack (pro golfer) Flag carrier (type of airline company) Operation Babylift (1975 evacuation of children from Vietnam) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Wanderlust can dictate the course of your life.” – Dave Seminara In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dave discuss the philosophical underpinnings of wanderlust (2:00); the subculture of competitive travelers (10:00); the mystery of William Baekeland (20:00); and the impact of wanderlust on peoples’ lives (44:00). Dave Seminara is a writer and former diplomat. His latest book, Mad Travelers: A Tale of Wanderlust, Greed and the Quest to Reach the Ends of the Earth, is a deep exploration of wanderlust, focused around the true story of William Baekeland, a young Brit who conned many of the world’s most traveled people as they sought to reach the planet’s most remote and off-limits places. For more about Dave, check out his website at https://daveseminara.com. Notable Links: Most Traveled People (club) Nomadmania (club) The Travelers’ Century Club (club) Charles Veley (traveler) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“This is a weird time to be grateful for, but I’m sure we’ll feel heaps of nostalgia for it.” – Kristen “Kiki” Bush In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki talk about how interacting with objects from your past (or getting rid of them) forces a kind of nostalgia on you (2:00); how cultural nostalgia can fall on generational lines, and how venues like YouTube curate generational nostalgia (7:30); how nostalgia can hinge on sports and music from the past, how going to concerts to reconnect with times of your life, and the phenomena known as the “nostalgia bump” (12:00); how journals are a way to collect and hold on to moments and memories, and what it feels like to revisit them (24:00); how technology has changed the way we interact with other people, as well as the way we experience things and remember and revisit things (31:30); and how it’s hard to tell what from the current moment will evoke nostalgia later (36:00). Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center. Notable Links: A personal history of nostalgia (Deviate episode) Revisiting “American Pilgrim” (Deviate episode) Generation X (demographic cohort) Emergency! (TV show) Denny Matthews (Kansas City Royals announcer) Disintegration (1989 album by The Cure) Robert Smith (musician) Dillon’s (Kansas supermarket chain) Van life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) “I Wanna Go Back” (Billy Satellite song sung by Eddie Money) “If You Don’t Know Me by Now” (1972 Harold Melvin song) Our Town (play by Thornton Wilder) The Joshua Tree (album by U2) 2017 Joshua Tree Tour (U2 30th anniversary album tour) Live Aid (1985 benefit concert) Achtung Baby (1991 U2 album) Kyuss (1990s rock band) Cleveland Browns (pro football team) NCIS: New Orleans (TV show) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“For as much as we seek our paths and have questions about the journey, there is a sense deep within us, like a primeval compass, that shows we already know where to go.” – Sophfronia Scott In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophfronia talk about how they came to know of Merton, and how his journals reveal his truer self (2:00); being “spiritual but not religious,” the language of beholding versus the language of belief, and how interactions with nature are a spiritual exercise (9:00); human versus divine love, and how the most spiritual moments are often the most difficult ones in life (17:00); the importance of seeking a life of needing less, and how not be in a constant state of wanting (25:00); contemplation versus activism, learning to love people we do not agree with, and regulating desire in a world of abundance (34:30); and what Merton’s example can teach us in the 21st century, in an age of click-bait and decontextualized life (45:00). Sophfronia Scott (@Sophfronia) is the author of five books. Her newest, The Seeker and the Monk, is about Catholic writer and activist Thomas Merton. She last appeared on Deviate to discuss mid-life career change, and her role in defining Generation X. Notable Links: Thomas Merton (monk and writer) Merton Prayer Conjectures of a Guilt Bystander (1968 Merton book) The Seven Storey Mountain (1948 Merton autobiography) The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton (1975 book) Festival of Faith and Writing Barbara Brown Taylor (theologian) New Seeds of Contemplation (1962 Merton book) Moonstruck (1987 movie) Abbey of Gethsemani (Merton’s monastery in Kentucky) Henri Nouwen (theologian) 2021 Capitol insurrection (attack on the U.S. Congress) Sandy Hook shooting (2012 mass shooting) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I came to live and work in Korea and walked out two years later way more equipped in life, not just as a traveler, but as a person.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friends Brian and Steve talk about the factors that led them to live and work in South Korea when they were in their twenties, and what they experienced when they first arrived (2:30); the cultural differences, idiosyncrasies, and lessons learned as expat English teachers during South Korea’s globalization boom-years (17:30); culture shock, North Korean provocations, anti-U.S. sentiment, and how what was “normal” was different in Korea than in the U.S. (30:00); drinking-culture, dating rituals, expat meltdowns, what they loved about being in Korea, and how it changed their lives (47:30). Notable Links: Lost Generation (Paris expats in the 1920s) Jeonju (city in South Korea) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Mid-20s crisis (quarter-life anxiety) Michael Bolton (American singer) Culture shock (cross-cultural disorientation) Confucianism (Asian system of behavior) Hagwon (private learning academies in Korea) Parasite (2019 South Korean movie) Chan-Ho Park (Korean MLB baseball player) Sunshine Policy (South Korean diplomacy) Dokdo (islet disputed between Korea and Japan) Busan (city in South Korea) Korean bathhouse (sex-segregated spas) Bosintang (Korean dog-meat strew) Man Bites Dog, by Rolf Potts (essay) Tico (small Daewoo car in the 1990s) Ondol (Korean heated floor) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.