“Mixtapes were more than a way to share music in the 1980s and 1990s: They were, in fact, a type of extraverbal language — a vivid, inexpensive form of folk communication.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the film Cassette, and reads an informal essay about how mixtapes are a kind of lost language (00:45); then Rolf, Liesl, and Michael talk about how person-to-person connection was essential to sharing music in the 1990s, and the legacy of cassettes (8:00); the era when cassettes were a new technology, and the craft and care that went into creating mixtapes (22:00); how finding new music is different in the era of online algorithms, versus what music curation was like before cassettes (33:00); and how music and music-nostalgia is generationally specific, according to what technology was used when a given generation was young (45:30). Zack Taylor is an actor and cinematographer, known for Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (2016). Notable Links: Cassette: A Documentary Mixtape (film) Rondo Rolf essay and track listing High Fidelity (2000 movie) The Fall (English post-punk band) Kevin Young (poet and author) Gouache (type of paint) KROQ-FM (LA “alternative music” radio station) Siouxsie and the Banshees (English rock band) Fishbone (American rock band) Henry Rollins (musician) Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck (documentary film) Cut-up technique (art method popularized by William S. Burroughs) Payola (music industry practice) “Home Taping Is Killing Music” (1980s slogan) “It’s Raining Tacos” (Parry Gripp song) Lou Ottens (inventor of the cassette tape) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire” In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast. Introduction (00:35 – 11:20) Vintage Sears Wish Book online archive What Exactly is Christmas Tree Flocking? from Mental Floss Klonopin (anxiety medication) Janis Ian (singer-songwriter) Enchroma glasses (to correct colorblindness) Literature of Desire essay (11:20 – 32:20) Richard Warren Sears (catalog founder) Mr. Sears’ Catalog (video) from PBS’s American Experience Sears Catalog Home (ready-to-assemble houses) That ’70s Show, Happy Days, Good Times, Welcome Back, Kotter (TV shows) Christie Brinkley and Renee Russo (fashion models) Pong (video game) Big Jim’s P.A.C.K. (toy line) Jay J. Armes (private investigator) JJ Armes action figure (TV commercial) “Is Jay J. Armes For Real?” from Texas Monthly WishBookcom Sears Wish Book memories (32:20 – 50:10) Action figures (dolls marketed to boys) Toughskins (jeans for children) Huffy (bicycle brand) BEST (showroom retail store) “Kerouac’s Fantasy Baseball Obsession” from Mental Floss Coleco’s Electronic Quarterback (game) This episode was sponsored by the Paris Writing Workshops, which offer intensive one-week travel-writing courses in the artistic heart of Europe. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

“When you smell a place, that’s when your experience of it starts.” – Rolf Potts Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact Wade at wadeshepard@protonmail.com. Notable Links: Baywatch (TV show) Damara (African ethnic group) Herrero (African ethnic group) @lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account) Malagasy invasion of Africa (10th century battle) Pollyanna principle (positivity bias) Mursi (African ethnic group) FOMO (fear of missing out) The Beach (1996 novel) The Beach (2000 film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one — even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world — in part because there’s something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time.” –Rolf Potts In this encore episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different for two young men in 1994 (23:30); the route they took through North America, what happened along the way, and how they kept daily journals recounting events (36:00); the experience riding with cops in Houston, celebrating Mardi Gras in New Orleans, volunteering at a church in Mississippi, meeting girls in Florida, and seeing New York for the first time (51:00); the experience of staying at a Trappist monastery in Massachusetts for one week (1:14:30); visiting National Parks in the American South, Northeast, and West, and memorable books read along the way (1:28:00); and why the trip was life-changing (1:42:00). Van trip preparation and planning links: Digital nomadism (travel lifestyle) #VanLife (travel lifestyle) Composting toilet Blue Highways, by William Least Heat-Moon (1982 book) On the Road, by Jack Kerouac (1957 book) Travels With Charley, by John Steinbeck (1962 book) Vanagon (Volkswagen van) Volkswagen Westfalia (camper van) Trangia (alcohol-burning camp-stove) A (literal) photo album from my 1994 van vagabonding trip (blog post) Links regarding early months of the 1994 trip: 924 Gilman Street (Berkeley punk club) Northridge earthquake (1994 earthquake) “The Mystical High Church of Luck” (Salon essay about Las Vegas) Lollapalooza (music festival) O. J. Simpson murder case (1994 media incident) USCGC Northwind (Coast Guard icebreaker) Bourbon Street (historic street in New Orleans) The Geto Boys, by Rolf Potts (2016 book) Fifth Ward (Houston neighborhood) Cops (TV show) Canton (town in Mississippi) In His Steps (Mississippi Christian outreach ministry) Waffle House (southern restaurant chain) Savannah State (historically black university) Debbie Does Dallas (1978 pornographic film) Tompkins Square (New York park) Trappist monastery experience links: St. Joseph’s Abbey (Massachusetts monastery) Trappists (order of Catholic monks) Thomas Merton (Trappist monk and writer) Memento Mori (existential expression) Chant (1994 Monks of Santo Domingo de Silos album) Compline (end-of-day church service) Links regarding the final months of the 1994 trip: Ocala National Forest (protected area in Florida) Shenandoah National Park (Virginia wilderness area) Mount Washington (tallest mountain the northeast U.S.) Arches National Park (Utah wilderness area) Fisher Towers (photogenic cliffs near Moab, Utah) Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (1968 book) Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (1855 poetry collection) The Razor’s Edge, by W. Somerset Maugham (1944 book) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert M Pirsig (1974 book) Uinta National Forest (protected area in Utah) Yellowstone National Park (Wyoming wilderness area) Glacier National Park (Montana wilderness area) Pike National Forest (protected area in Colorado) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Life’s journey is as rewarding as my travel journeys. It’s been fun to travel the world as a slightly older person.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and participants in the Nomadic Network book club discuss the stories behind the travel tales in his 2008 book Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, including what inspired him to collect the essays into a single book, and why he decided to include endnotes (2:00); which stories stand out as favorites, for both Rolf and his readers, and how Rolf finds stories on the road (12:30); how his writing and his travels have changed in the years since these stories were first written (19:00); what it’s like to create a home amid a life of travel, and how journaling feeds creative writing (26:00); and the new book Rolf is working on now (35:00). Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt) is the founder of TravelCon and the author of Travel the World on $50 a Day and Ten Years a Nomad. The Nomadic Network is a global community of travel-enthusiasts who support and inspire one another to travel better, cheaper, and longer. Travel essays mentioned: “Storming The Beach“ (Thailand) ​”Going Native in the Australian Outback” (Australia) “Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel” (Egypt) “My Beirut Hostage Crisis” (Lebanon) “Be Your Own Donkey” (Egypt) “Turkish Knockout” (Turkey) Notable links: Paris Writing Workshops (writing class) ​Travelers Tales (publisher) Wilfred Thesiger (travel writer) Gertrude Bell (travel writer) American Notes, by Charles Dickens (travelogue) Herodotus (Greek historian) Best Hostel Ever (Deviate episode) Whodunit (storytelling genre) Bootsnall (travel community) Mentawai Islands (archipelago in Indonesia) Tracy Kidder (journalist) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“You open up a map, and it’s like, ‘I could go anywhere here.’ It’s just a world of possibility.” – Ari Shaffir Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Putting together the podcast has been like swimming laps or practicing free-throws — it’s creative cross-training that benefits my broader writing pursuits, even as it allows me to explore esoteric topics that fascinate me.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate (which is remixed from Jay Acunzo’s 3 Clips podcast) Rolf and Jay talk about how a visual medium like travel gets translated to audio, and how podcasting serves Rolf’s creative career (4:00); how the walking episode differed from normal ones, and the walk naturally mixed spiritual and practical themes (10:00); how to approach an interview without an outline, creating unstructured content that is beholden to things like having to take a pee (15:00); ow smooth conversation is often the result of planning and effort, deviating yet remembering what the core topic is (22:00); using spontaneous moments in a strategic way, and how Rolf will organize and plan the podcast looking forward (34:00). Jay Acunzo has worked for companies like Google and ESPN, and his projects (such as his 3 Clips podcast) aim to demystify the creative process behind creating memorable projects, careers, and companies. Notable Links: Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode) Idiosyncrasies of global train travel (Deviate episode) Thich Nhat Hanh (Buddhist monk) Paris Writing Workshops (creative writing class) Guildhall School of Music and Drama Archive of Deviate episodes with Ari Shaffir Scriptnotes (screenwriting podcast) The Rewatchables (movie podcast) Super Bowl special (Deviate episode) Why dinosaurs matter (Deviate episode) J. Yuenger on music and long-term travel (Deviate episode) Ian MacKaye on rock music (Deviate episode) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“We all have different priorities in life, and there is a place for each of us where we can live according to what those priorities are.” – Winona Dimeo In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Winona discuss what people are looking for in a place to live (2:00) and Livability.com’s latest rankings for America’s most livable cities (23:00). Then, Rolf takes recommendations from listeners on their favorite places to live in America (53:00). Winona Dimeo (@winona_rose) is the managing editor of Livability.com, a website that ranks America’s most livable small and mid-sized cities. For more livability tips, check out its rankings of the best small to mid-sized cities in the USA. Livability also publishes its methodology. Cities mentioned in the main interview include: Portland, OR; Austin, TX; Minneapolis, MN; Pittsburgh, PA; Manhattan, KS; Lawrence, KS; Overland Park, KS; Lindsborg, KS; Ottawa, KS; Wichita, KS; Buffalo, NY; Rochester, MN; Kingsport, TN; Sevierville, TN; Fargo, ND; Savannah, GA; New Orleans, LA; Cincinnati, OH; Yellow Springs, OH; Athens, OH; Astoria, OR; Lincoln City, OR; Nashville, TN; Asheville, NC; Black Mountain, NC; Brevard, NC; Traverse City, MI; Marfa, TX; Charleston, SC; Bend, OR; and Hood River, OR. Notable Links: Konza Prairie (biological preserve) Tallgrass National Prairie Preserve Kanopolis State Park Stiefel Theater “One of the Coolest Cities in America Doesn’t Even Realize It Yet” (Thrillist article) Dollywood (theme park) Alicia Underlee Nelson (travel writer) Gooding (band) 1,000 Places to See Before You Die, by Patricia Shultz (book) Oregon Shakespeare Festival Transcendental Meditation Wollowa Mountains (mountain range) Terminal Gravity (brewery) Maharishi Vastu Architecture Audio contributors: Adam Karlin (Staunton, VA) Alicia Ard (Bend, OR) Sarah Bell (Phoenixville, Pennsylvania) Gooding (Kingston Springs, TN) Steven Gray (Pensacola, FL) Avery Gunns (Truth or Consequences, NM) Max Hartshorne (Northampton, MA) Michele Hermann (Buffalo, NY) Karen Hugg (Ashland, OR) Jamie-Lee Josselyn (Galena, IL) Brian Kevin (Joseph, OR and Enterprise, OR) Tim Leffel (Chattanooga, TN) Deborah Lewis (Middlebury, VT) Dinty W. Moore (Athens, OH) Chrystine Olson (Graham, NC) Patricia Schultz (Beacon, NY) Jessica Voigts (Traverse City, MI) Jason Wisdom (Fairfield, IA) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Holiday gave its writers room to tell a comprehensive story. A place was evoked in thousands of words instead of the usual 800 we are now accustomed to reading.” – Pamela Fiori In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pamela talk about the origins of Holiday Magazine, why it attracted good writers, and how its creation was connected to advertising markets (2:15); famous articles to appear in the magazine, and why it was successful (7:00); who the magazine’s audience was, how television and political-cultural changes in America affected things in the 1960s (15:00); the decline of Holiday Magazine magazine amid the economic and cultural changes of the 1970s, and why there are no archives (24:30); and the legacy of Holiday Magazine in the 21st century. Pamela Fiori made publishing history in May 1993, when she became the first woman to be named editor in chief of Town & Country, America’s oldest continuously published general-interest magazine. She is the author of Holiday: The Best Travel Magazine that Ever Was. Notable Links: Holiday Magazine (travel publication) See the USA in Your Chevrolet (song performed by Dinah Shore) The Dinah Shore Chevy Show (1950s TV show) Travels with Charley (1962 John Steinbeck travel book) Saturday Evening Post (American general-interest magazine) Ladies’ Home Journal (American women’s magazine) Curtis Publishing (American magazine publisher) Ted Patrick (magazine editor) Joan Didion (American essayist) Roger Angell (American essayist) Here is New York (essay and book by E.B. White) Mad Men (TV show about advertising) Big Sur (coastal region of central California) Travel + Leisure (American travel magazine) Mag Men, by Walter Bernard (book) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In ancient Greece, entire eras were measured by Olympiads. It’s how history was arranged. The Olympics were that important.” – Tony Perrottet In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tony discuss how the ancient games was a religious festival, now it was never delayed, and why it was important (2:00) non-sports events that happened the the ancient Games, performance enhancing potions, and Greek competitiveness (17:00); the sporting events competed in the ancient games, and how they differed from modern sports (24:00); the training and diet that went into the games, aristocrats versus commoners who competed, and which ancient Olympians are still remembered (32:00); and what non-Greeks thought to the games, Greek skeptics of the games, and what it’s like to travel to the old sites of the ancient Greek games (45:30). Tony Perrottet (@TonyPerrottet) is the author of six books, including Pagan Holiday: On the Trail of Ancient Roman Tourists; The Sinner’s Grand Tour: A Journey Through the Historical Underbelly of Europe; and The Naked Olympics: The True Story of the Greek Games, upon which this interview is based. Notable Links: Ancient Olympic Games (sporting festival) Olympia, Greece (location of the ancient Games) Statue of Zeus at Olympia (ancient tourist attraction) Herodotus (ancient Greek historian) Pausanias (ancient Greek geographer) Symposium (ancient Greek drinking banquet) Monty Python (British comedy troupe) Gilgamesh (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Enkidu (Mesopotamian mythological hero) Funeral games (ancient honor ritual) Pankration (ancient fighting sport) Ben Hur (epic historical movie) Pierre de Coubertin (founder of the modern Olympics) Milo of Croton (ancient Greek wrestler) 300 (2007 epic historical movie) Battle of Thermopylae (ancient Greek battle) Diogenes the Cynic (ancient Greek philosopher) Karate gets its due at the Olympics, by Tony Perrottet (article) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.