

Deviate
Rolf Potts
Rolf Potts veers off-topic in this unique series of conversations with experts, public figures, and intriguing people.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 8, 2018 • 1h 17min
Kink Doctor Dulcinea Pitagora on sex therapy, BDSM, and dominatrix work
“My specializations come from who I am. I’m a little unusual in the therapy field because I state very clearly what my identifications are. Which is that I’m kinky, and that I’m poly, and that I identify as queer, and that I’m gender fluid, and that I’m a former sex worker.” –Dulcinea Pitagora
Dulcinea Pitagora (@KinkDoctor) is a New York-based psychotherapist specializing in alternative sexuality. She is the host of the web series Kink Doctor.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dulcinea discuss the specifics of dominatrix work (2:00); the difficulties and hurdles involved with dominatrix and other sex work (25:00); Dulcinea’s personal path into sex work and sex therapy (31:00); sex therapy and alternative sexualities (47:00); and Fifty Shades of Grey and public perceptions of kink (1:00:00).
For more on Dulcinea, check out http://www.dulcineapitagora.com
Sex terms dicussed:
Cisgender (gender identity)
Non-binary/gender fluidity (gender identity)
Pain play (sex practice)
Role play (sex practice)
BDSM/power exchange (sex practice)
Vanilla (sex behavior)
Kink (sex behavior)
Safe word (BDSM communication)
Fetish (sexual fixation)
Polyamory (relationship practice)
“Pegging” for straight men (Subreddit page, NSFW)
Other links:
The Erotic Mind, by Jack Morin (book)
Perv, by Jesse Bering (book)
Modern Sexuality, by Michael Aaron (book)
Sexual Outsiders: Understanding BSM Sexualities, by David Ortmann and Richard Sprott (book)
Rewriting the Rules, by Meg John Barker (book)
50 Shades of Grey, by E.L. James (novel)
Tristan Taormino (feminist author)
Janet Hardy (sex educator)
FetLife (social networking for kinky people)
AltSex NYC (conference)
Manhattan Alternative (sex-positive therapist coalition)
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

May 1, 2018 • 1h 2min
Sarah von Bargen is here to help you correct your bad self-help habits
“Better or happier usually takes much less time than we think.” – Sarah Von Bargen
Sarah Von Bargen (@yesandyesblog) is a writer, teacher, and business/lifestyle consultant. Her work focuses on goal-setting, work/life balance, productivity habits, money management, and the pursuit of happiness.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sarah deconstruct her six principles for identifying, embracing, and maintaining happiness:
Principle #1: You’re probably not the exception to the rule (6:30)
Principle #2: Stop pretending it’s easy (15:30)
Principle #3: The truth about work/life balance is that you’re going to find “success” a lot slower if you have that balance (17:30)
Principle #4: Track your process not your progress (37:30)
Principle #5: You probably can’t predict what will work (45:50)
Principle #6: Don’t set goals you can’t control (50:00)
For more from Sarah, check out her blog, yesandyes.org
Notable Links:
Moment (productivity app)
Pomodoro Technique (time management method)
Freedom (productivity app)
Anti-Social (productivity app)
Association of Writers and Writing Programs Conference
Everest mountaineer Alison Levine on introversion and finding mentors (episode of Deviate with Rolf Potts podcast
True Story (interview series, by Sarah Von Bargen)
Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil in Rosedale, Mississippi, by Rolf Potts (article)
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Apr 24, 2018 • 1h 33min
The way we teach and learn has been broken for 300 years (but we can fix it)
“All lessons are delayed. Very few of us actually receive the lesson right there, when it is delivered to us.” –Al Filreis
Al Filreis (@Afilreis) is a Professor at the University of Pennsylvania and Director of the Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing at the University of Pennsylvania. He is also the founder and Faculty Director of The Kelly Writers House, a non-profit, community organization dedicated to creative writing and the literary arts. He is also author of such books as Counter-revolution of the Word: The Conservative Attack on Modern Poetry, 1945-1960 and Modernism from Right to Left.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Al discuss the underpinnings today’s educational framework (2:45); improving our educational process (20:00); self-learning (30:00); curation of content (44:00); Twitter and our ongoing societal dialogue (1:01:00); and pedagogy and the polis (1:17:00).
For more from Al, check out The Kelly Writers House, his PoemTalk podcast, or “The end of the lecture as we know it.”
Education-oriented links:
MOOC (Massive Open Online Courses)
Modern Poetry (“ModPo”) MOOC (online course)
TED (media organization)
The Great Courses (audio courses)
Coursera (education company)
iTunes U (audio courses)
edX (MOOC provider)
Chautauqua (19th century adult education movement)
Other links:
Heart of Darkness, by Joseph Conrad (novel)
Things Fall Apart, by Chinua Achebe (novel)
Colonialism (national imperial policy)
William Carlos Williams (poet)
Emily Dickerson (poet)
Triumph of the Will (German propaganda film)
Schindler’s List (film)
Rambo (film series)
Free Speech Movement (student protest)
Quakers (religious theology)
Lutheranism (religious theology)
Socratic method (teaching theory)
Net neutrality (principle)
Desegregation in Yonkers (political campaign)
Shooting of Stephon Clark (police shooting)
ProPublica (non-profit newsroom)
Slate Culture Gabfest (podcast)
Stephon Clark: Rhythms of Tragedy, by Charles M. Blow (article)
#NeverAgain (student gun-control movement)
Third Reich (sociopolitical period)
National Socialism (sociopolitical ideology)
Wannsee Conference (meeting of Nazi leadership)
Vietnam War (Wikipedia entry)
Battle of Dien Bien Phu (battle during First Indochina War)
This episode was recorded at Kelly Writers House on the UPenn campus, with the help of Wexler Studio coordinator Zach Carduner. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Apr 17, 2018 • 1h 12min
How we die in America (and why it’s important to talk about it)
“What we have found is that technologies are not prolonging human life. They are really just prolonging human death.” – Ann Neumann
Ann Neumann (@otherspoon) is a visiting scholar at the NYU Center for Religion and Media and author of the book, The Good Death.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ann discuss what got her involved in the topic of death and dying (5:00); end-of-life care (13:00); confronting the finality of death, and the parallels between death and travel (22:00); hospice, and dignity in death (39:00); the evolving definition of death and associated medical logistics (44:00); and how we address death as a society (56:00).
For more from Ann, check out her author website.
People and books mentioned:
Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey
Ecclesiastes (book of the Old Testament)
Barbara Ehrenreich (author and political activist)
Joanne Lynn (author and policy advocate)
Natural Causes: An Epidemic of Wellness, the Certainty of Dying, and Killing Ourselves to Live Longer, by Barbara Ehrenreich (book)
Knocking on Heaven’s Door, by Katy Butler (book)
“What Broke My Father’s Heart,” by Katy Butler (article)
Being Mortal, by Atul Gawande (book)
“Letting Go,” by Atul Gawande (article)
Caitlin Doughty (author and mortician)
Karen Ann Quinlan (significant figure in the history of the right to die)
Nancy Cruzan (significant figure in the history of the right to die)
Terri Schaivo (significant figure in the history of the right to die)
Michel Foucault (philosopher)
Jacob Appel (writer)
Notable concepts and medical terms:
Memento mori (theory of mortality)
Alzheimer’s disease (neurodegenerative disease)
Hospice (type/philosophy of health care)
Intubation (medical procedure)
Do not resuscitate (medical legal order)
Persistent vegetative state (disorder of consciousness)
Advance healthcare directive (legal document)
#BucketListPlus1 (end-of-life care campaign)
Biopolitics (intersectional academic discipline)
Mensch (Yiddish word/concept)
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Apr 10, 2018 • 1h 15min
Deviate Live in New York City: Travel Stories and Souvenirs
“That’s the lovely thing about a souvenir: It’s a touchstone that reminds you of what you can do, and what you have done, and what you can be proud of. And what can make you laugh.” –Jeanmarie Theobalds
To celebrate the debut of his new book Souvenir, Rolf invited various writers, performers, and world-wanderers onstage at New York’s underground Cornelia Street Cafe to tell travel stories. Storytellers included:
Comedian Ari Shaffir
Ari Shaffir tells a story about a t-shirt, a Czech model, and a bunch of gibbons in Thailand. Ari is a comedian, actor, podcaster, writer, and producer. He is the host of the Skeptic Tank podcast, the stand up series This Is Not Happening on Comedy Central, and the Netflix comedy special Double Negative. He also co-hosts the podcast Punch Drunk Sports with Jayson Thibault and Sam Tripoli, and is a regular guest on The Joe Rogan Experience podcast.
Playwright Alex Dawson
Alex Dawson tells a story about Alabama, and his mother’s boots. Alex is the founder of Raconteur Ventures, a company dedicated to reviving communities through cultural programming, and the host of Raconteurs & Roustabouts, a vaudevillian variety show that puts authors on stage alongside musicians and sideshow performers. He teaches creative writing and audio narrative at Rutgers University. He is the curator/host of Rutgers University’s “Inside the Writers House,” a weekly series of candid conversations with acclaimed authors.
Photographer Jeanmarie Theobalds
Jeanmarie Theobalds tells a story about a “magic ring” she bought in Brazil. Jeanmarie is a freelance oral historian and oral history project consultant. For many years she was an editorial portrait photographer in New York. She was awarded the William J. Fulbright to photograph and interview women potters in Bahia Brazil. Upon her return from Brazil, she pursued her interest in the art of interviewing through oral history and earned a M.A. in oral history from Columbia University.
Poet Tommy Pico
Tommy Pico reads an excerpt from his forthcoming book Junk, which Tin House Books will debut this May. Tommy is also the author IRL (Birds LLC, 2016) and Nature Poem (Tin House Books, 2017). He was a Queer/Art/Mentors inaugural Fellow, Lambda Literary Fellow in poetry, and NYSCA/NYFA Fellow in Poetry from the New York Foundation for the Arts, and he’s the winner of a Whiting Award and the Brooklyn Public Library’s Literature Prize. Originally from the Viejas Indian reservation of the Kumeyaay nation, he now lives in Brooklyn.
Writer-actor Ayun Halliday
Ayun Halliday tells a story about a household souvenir she has come to call “Mike.” Ayun is best known as the author and illustrator of the long-running zine The East Village Inky. She is the author of a number of books, including the travel book No Touch Monkey! And Other Travel Lessons Learned Too Late, the food-themed Dirty Sugar Cookies: Culinary Observations, Questionable Taste, and the graphic novel Peanut.
Filmmaker Pegi Vail
Pegi Vail tells a story about being offered the chance to name a newborn baby in Kenya. Pegi is an anthropologist, documentary filmmaker, and professor at New York University. A former Fulbright Scholar, Vail began as a visual artist and museum educator. Receiving her Ph.D. at NYU in Sociocultural Anthropology in 2004, Vail’s dissertation focused on the “backpacker subculture,” travel narratives and the ‘gentrification’ of the Bolivian tourism industry, a topic she would return to in her award-winning feature-length 2013 documentary film, Gringo Trails.
TV host Ernest White II
Ernest White II tells a story about a souvenir vendor he met on a journey to Namibia. Ernst is a storyteller, explorer, and the producer/host of global reality-travel television series Fly Brother. Ernest’s writing includes fiction, literary essay, and travel narrative, and has been featured in Time Out London, USA Today, Getaway, Ebony, The Manifest-Station, Sinking City, Lakeview Journal, Matador Network, National Geographic Traveler’s Brazil and Bradt’s Tajikistan guidebooks, and at TravelChannel.com.
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Apr 3, 2018 • 1h 6min
How romance novels reveal the secret history of life in America
“Essentially, a romance is a courtship story. And if you think about it, courtship stories are part of the foundation of human storytelling” –Sarah Wendell
Sarah Wendell (@SmartBitches) is an author and blogger whose work primarily focuses on the romance fiction genre. She is co-author of the book, Beyond Heaving Bosoms: The Smart Bitches’ Guide to Romance Novels.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sarah discuss the elements of a romance novel book cover (13:00); plot and structure of a romance novel (24:00); the history the romance genre (34:00); and the evolution of romance fiction characters and tropes (46:00).
For more from Sarah, check out her website: Smart Bitches, Trashy Books
Notable Links:
RT Booklovers Convention
“Where no Travel Writer has Gone Before“, by Rolf Potts (article)
Elements of Surprise: Our Mental Limits and the Satisfactions of Plot, by Vera Tobin (book)
Gone with the Wind, by Margaret Mitchell (novel and film)
Gone Girl, by Gillian Flynn (novel)
Pride and Prejudice, by Jane Austen (novel)
Turducken (novelty dish)
Fabio (romance cover model)
Mullet (hairstyle)
#MeToo movement
The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (viral video)
Asexuality
Demisexuality
Black Panther (film)
Wrinkle in Time, by Madeleine L’Engle (novel and film)
Simon vs. the Homo Sapiens Agenda , by Becky Albertalli (novel)
Highlander (film)
Romance novels, novelists, and genres mentioned:
Prowl the Night, by Crystal Jordan (romance novel)
The Raider, by Jude Deveraux (romance novel)
Jude Deveraux the Raider Barbie & Ken Set (collectible toy)
Sharon Shinn (romance novelist)
Suzanne Brockmann’s Troubleshooters series
Kate Duffy, editor at Kensington
The Flame and the Flower, by Kathleen E. Woodiwiss (romance novel)
Carina Press Romance Promise
Paranormal romance (genre)
Amish Vampires in Space, by Kerry Nietz (romance novel)
Tamed: A Menage Dinosaur Shifter Romance, by Jenny Clemens (romance novel)
Hot and Badgered, by Shelly Laurenston (romance novel)
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Mar 20, 2018 • 1h 32min
Unsane writer James Greer on the death of Cobain and birth of Gen X
“This is a thing that journalists do—they take a ‘two is a coincidence, three is a trend’ sort of thing and try to manufacture an idea out of it.” – James Greer
James Greer is a screenwriter, music critic, author, and former rock musician. He-wrote the screenplay for Steven Soderbergh’s film Unsane, which is set for release on March 23rd.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and James discuss his early career as a music critic and Spin magazine (4:00); Generation X and James’ role in popularizing this demographic cohort (13:00); the Nirvana revolution and the band’s impact on music (25:00); the legend of with Kurt Cobain (39:00); James’ post-Spin life (54:00); and his transition into screenwriting and making movies with Steven Soderbergh (1:04:00).
Notable Links:
The Upside to All the Online Chatter About ‘Girls”, by Rolf Potts (article)
Proceeding With Caution, by David M. Gross and Sophronia Scott (article)
Greer’s 1991 Spin article about Perry Farrell and Generation X
Generation X: Tales for an Accelerated Culture, by Douglas Coupland (book)
Pretty in Pink: The Golden Age of Teenage Movies, by Jonathan Bernstein (book)
Generation X (demographic cohort)
Grunge speak (hoax)
Richard Linklater (director)
Slacker (film)
Janeane Garofalo (comedian)
Jim Rose Circus
Bro (subculture)
Max Keeble’s Big Move (film)
Just My Luck (film)
Lindsay Lohan (actress)
Jonathan Bernstein (screenwriter)
Steven Soderbergh (filmmaker)
Sex, Lies, and Videotape (film)
Sex, Lies, and Videotape Movie Edition (film journal and screenplay)
Raiders of the Lost Ark, by Steven Spielberg (remix version by Steven Soderbergh)
Unsane (film)
Red (digital camera company)
Day-and-Date Release Strategy
John Barth (author)
Music-related links:
Spin (magazine)
Bob Guccione, Jr. (Spin publisher)
Rolling Stone (magazine)
Nirvana (band)
Lollapalooza (music festival)
Perry Farrell (musician)
Slanted and Enchanted (music album by Pavement)
Matador Records (indie music label)
Sub Pop (indie music label)
Nils Bernstein (music publicist)
Post-punk (music genre)
R.E.M. (band)
Hüsker Dü (band)
The Replacements (band)
Pixies (band)
Fugazi (band)
Soundgarden (band)
Sonic Youth (band)
Billy Idol (musician)
U2 (band)
Eddie Vedder (band)
Kurt Cobain (musician)
Janis Joplin (musician)
Jimi Hendrix (musician)
Jim Morrison (musician)
Ian Curtis (musician)
Mia Zapata (musician)
Kim Deal (musician)
Courtney Love (musician)
Henry Rollins (musician)
Guided by Voices (band)
Dead Moon (band)
Death Hags (band)
MTV Buzz Bin
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Mar 13, 2018 • 21min
The Epic One-Against-Five Foul-Out Basketball Game of 1964
In the spirit of March Madness, Rolf brings us special episode of Deviate from the American heartland, where he tells us a basketball story about one of those “never before seen” sports moments.
Notable Links:
Kipp, Kansas (town)
Aurora, Kansas (town)
Schilling Air Force Base
Donald J. Sobol (writer)
Encyclopedia Brown, by Donald J. Sobol (book series)
Encyclopedia Brown’s Second Record Book of Weird and Wonderful Facts
1964 NCAA University Division Basketball Tournament
Gypsum, Kansas (town)
Assaria, Kansas (town)
Southeast of Saline School
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Mar 6, 2018 • 1h 1min
Adventure writer Tim Cahill on fear, and what it’s like to be dead for ten minutes
“I think fear comes out of ignorance.” – Tim Cahill
Tim Cahill is a journalist, author, and pioneering travel writer.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss hooking the reader from the first line of a story (2:15); the start of Tim’s career and his early experiences in journalism (8:50); travel writing in the 1970s, and the evolution of travel writing (16:30); his relationship with risk and fear (24:00); his brush with death in the Grand Canyon (36:45); and how his connection with walking and travel has changed as he has aged (51:00).
For more from Tim, check out his Rolling Stone and Outside archives, or his 2004 Q&A with Rolf.
Mentioned writing by Tim Cahill
In the Valley of the Shadow of Death: Guyana After the Jonestown Massacre, by Tim Cahill (article)
The Shame of Escobilla, by Tim Cahill (article)
My Drowning (and other Inconveniences), by Tim Cahill (article)
Buried Dreams: Inside the Mind of John Wayne Gacy, by Tim Cahill (book)
Pecked to Death by Ducks, by Tim Cahill (book)
A Wolverine is Eating my Leg, by Tim Cahill (book)
Hold the Enlightenment, by Tim Cahill (book)
Jaguars Ripped my Flesh, by Tim Cahill (book)
Pass the Butterworms, by Tim Cahill (book)
Road Fever, by Tim Cahill (book)
Other notable links
Outside Magazine (publication)
Gonzo Journalism (style of journalism)
In medias res (narrative technique)
Walt Whitman (poet and essayist)
Ernest Hemingway (author)
Emily Dickinson (poet)
Mark Twain (author)
Bill Cardoso (journalist)
Queen Charlotte Islands (i.e., Haida Gwaii)
Lava Falls (Grand Canyon rapids)
Paleface v. Redskin (American literary dichotomy)
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Feb 27, 2018 • 1h 4min
Filmmaker Rod Pocowatchit on Native American zombie movies and DIY film
“I tell people that all the time. Just do it. Just dive in and figure it out. And you’re going to make mistakes and you’re going to fail. But I learned incredible things from that first experience…just from doing that first film.” – Rod Pocowatchit
”Rodrick Pocowatchit (@rawd) is a journalist, screenwriter, actor, and film director.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rod discuss Native Americans in popular culture and movies (3:10); Native American identity (13:40); creating art within your means (23:00); Rod’s entrance into the film industry, and his distribution strategies (30:00); and pow-wow and Native American culture (42:00).
“Other” short clip from Rodrick Pocowatchit on Vimeo.
Feature films by Rodrick Pocowatchit:
Dancing on the Moon
Sleepdancer
The Dead Can’t Dance
Red Hand
Notable Links
Shaun of the Dead (film)
Little Big Man (film)
Chief Dan George (actor)
Smoke Signals (film)
Chris Eyre (film director)
King Kung Fu (film)
Guy Pocowatchit (actor)
George A. Romero (filmmaker)
Robert Rodriguez (filmmaker)
Richard Linklater (filmmaker)
Sundance Institute (film program)
Native Program (film program)
Rebel Without a Crew, by Robert Rodriguez (book)
Sherman Alexie (writer)
Pow wow (Native American cultural gathering)
Grass Dance (style of Native American dance)
Fancy Dance (style of Native American dance)
Comanche language
LA Skins Fest (film festival)
American Indian LA Film and TV Awards
Reporting in Indian Country “bingo card,” from the Native American Journalists Association.
The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.
Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.


