Deviate

“We need to avoid cherry-picking pandemic data that suits our personal narrative of what we think is going on.” –Dr. JP Santiago In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how the “existential threat” of pandemic is changing the way family-practice doctors are dealing with patients right now (1:40); the role of data in medicine, the definition of “observer bias,” and how the willingness to arrive at conclusions that contradict one’s initial hypothesis is essential in a medical context (9:30); a history of the shortcomings and dangers of naming infectious diseases after animals, people, or geographical places (20:00); how capitalism can be a force that can both enable and compromise solutions during a pandemic (33:30); and Dr. Santiago’s advice on how people should respond to the pandemic (40:00). JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/ Notable Links: World Health Organization COVID-19 updates (website) JP’s updates on the COVID-19 pandemic (Facebook posts) 2020 COVID-19 pandemic (global viral outbreak) Mike Pompeo (American secretary of state) WHO Best Practices for the Naming Infectious Diseases (PDF) AIDS (immunodeficiency virus) Gay-related immune deficiency (original name for AIDS) 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) 2003 SARS outbreak (global viral outbreak) 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) 2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome (global viral outbreak) This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“All the struggles of travel have taught me lessons about survival that will be useful coming up.” –Rollie Peterkin “I don’t think there are any ‘right’ choices at the moment. We’re all making the best with what we’ve got to work with.” –Aimée Bruneau “I think we’ll come out of this with a better sense that caring for other people is the most important thing in life. Not material possessions. Not political differences. Not ethnicity or religion. Just the fact that we’re all one human family.”  –Barbara Weibel In this episode of Deviate, Mike and Anne Howard describe what it’s like to be staying put in Poland during the pandemic lockdown (2:30); Justine Miller talks about being stuck in a Tunis hotel after flights stopped leaving the airport (6:00); Rollie Peterkin recounts what it was like to travel in Turkey as news of the pandemic mounted (9:00); Samantha Page talks about how Australian emergency preparedness was enhanced by the recent wildfire outbreak there (13:30); Aimée Bruneau describes a comparatively laid-back atmosphere in Mexico (17:00); Jeremy Kroeker talks about how his inter-continental motorcycle journey has come to a stand-still in Uruguay (22:00); Barbara Ann Weibel talks about how locals and expats are working together to solve problems in Thailand (26:00); Karen Catchpole and Eric Mohl describe uncertain attitudes toward outsiders in parts of Argentina (30:45); Troy Nahumko talks about how his kids are dealing with new developments in Spain (35:00); and Dennis and Stephanie Kay describes how pandemic life in France is a model for what could happen in the United States (39:30). Pandemic dispatch correspondents: Mike & Anne Howard (@HoneyTrek) are the authors of Ultimate Journeys for Two: Extraordinary Destinations on Every Continent, and Comfortably Wild: The Best Glamping Destinations in North America. Justine Miller (@JustineIMiller)  is a TV reporter for News 12 The Bronx and News 12 Brooklyn in New York City. She and her husband are in the middle of a seven-month sabbatical that is taking them around the world. Rollie Peterkin (@Rolliepeterkin) is the author of The Cage: Escaping the American Dream, which recount his experience of becoming an MMA fighter in Peru after having left a career as a bond trader on Wall Street. Samantha Page (@sampagee) has traveling internationally for more than two years, and is now based in Canberra, where she works as a writer and content developer for the Australian National University. Aimée Bruneau is a professor of acting, a public speaking coach, an audiobook narrator, a children’s book author, a yoga teacher, a world travel addict, and an international pet-sitter. Jeremy Kroeker (@Jeremy_Kroeker) is the author of Motorcycle Therapy: A Canadian Adventure in Central America, and Through Dust and Darkness: A Motorcycle Journey of Fear and Faith in the Middle East. Barbara Ann Weibel (@holeinthedonut) has been traveling the world since she walked away from corporate life in 2007. She shares stories about the places she visits and the people she meets on her blog, Hole in the Donut Cultural Travel. Karen Catchpole and Eric Mohl (@transamericas_journey) have been traveling full-time since 2006, when they left their apartment in New York City and embarked on their ongoing Trans-Americas Journey. Troy Nahumko is an author and musician based in Caceres, Spain. His recent travel writing focuses on travels around the Mediterranean, from Tangiers to Istanbul. Dennis and Stephanie Kay are Americans who have been living abroad and traveling the world since 2003. They are currently living as full time residents in Strasbourg, France. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit a given journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Being diagnosed with COVID-19 creates a lot of anxiety. And then you think: Is this thing I’m feeling just anxiety, or is it shortness of breath? Do I need to go to the hospital?” –Nomadic Matt Kepnes This episode of Deviate, begins with Rolf and Matt Kepnes taking about what it has been like for Matt to suffer from COVID-19, where he might have contracted it (having recently traveled to Taiwan, Paris, and New York), and what will happen to TravelCon in 2020 (2:30); digital nomad Melissa Witmer describes her social isolation in the Canary Islands after having traveled in Turkey (13:00); Marco Ferrarese talks about getting stuck in Peru while COVID-19 ravages his home country of Italy (16:40); Stephanie Johnson explains her decision to stay in rural Kenya rather than try and return stateside (21:05); Jon DeHart describes a seemingly lackadaisical pandemic atmosphere in Tokyo (27:10); Amber Hoffman recounts reactions to COVID-19 in Hong Kong and Spain (32:15); Claire and Sam Jessup talk about waiting out the lockdown in a motorhome in Denmark (37:50); and Brooks Eakin recounts the atmosphere in Shanghai, dating back to the first time in made headlines back in January (43:55). Travelers and correspondents appearing in this episode: Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as “Nomadic Matt,” is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the World on $50 a Day. He is also the founder of TravelCon, a yearly conference to help people learn the skills needed to develop a profitable and sustainable career in the travel industry. His newest book is Ten Years a Nomad. Melissa Witmer is the founder of UltyResults.com a business that helps ultimate frisbee players and coaches improve their performance on the frisbee field. She has been running this business as a digital nomad with no permanent location since 2015. Marco Ferrarese is an independent researcher and freelance writer. He is author of Nazi Goreng, and Banana Punk Rawk Trails: A Euro-Fool’s Metal Punk Journeys in Malaysia, Borneo and Indonesia, and has reported from all over Asia for a number of international publications including BBC, CNN and National Geographic Traveller. Originally from Washington DC, Stephanie Nasbe Johnson currently lives in Kabarnet, Baringo County, Kenya, where she teaches art and computers through the Polkadot Library, which was set up to encourage a reading culture and promote gender equality. Jonathan DeHart is a Tokyo-based writer and editor focused on culture and society in Asia. He is the author of a first-edition Japan guidebook for Moon Travel Guides and a journalist with more than 500 published articles. Amber Hoffman is the food and travel writer behind With Husband In Tow, and, more recently, The Bean Bites, which is a recipe site that focuses on beans and lentils, including pantry staples. Her newest book is The Food Traveler’s Guide to The Costa Brava. Claire and Sam Jessup have been traveling by motorhome since getting married in September 2018. You can follow our adventures on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, or Twitter. Brooks Eakin (@BrooksEakin) is an American writer and musician based in Shanghai, China. The Deviate podcast is sponsored by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit a given journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Travel is in our nature. We’ll have to counterbalance our new ‘normal’ when borders reopen to weigh in an extra element of risk.” –Dr. JP Santiago In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Dr. JP Santiago talk about how to make sense of the misinformation about COVID-19 that has flooded social media, and how American cultural attitudes toward the pandemic differ from those in Asia (2:10); how COVID-19 affects its victims, and what data doctors are looking for about the pandemic (12:00); how the virus replicates itself, the duration of its incubation period, and how to stay healthy in public places (17:45); the importance of social distancing and self-quarantine for sick people, and how to keep from transmitting sickness to health workers (22:00); reliable online sources for information about the COVID-19 virus (29:00); how the pandemic has affected travel, and how travelers can stay healthy moving forward (32:00); what happens next with the COVID-19 pandemic worldwide, our efforts to create a vaccine, political foresight, and how the virus will affect human behavior moving forward (38:20). JP Santiago has been a family medicine physician in private practice in Dallas/Fort Worth for nearly 20 years. He earned his medical degree in 1997 from the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, and did his residency training and was chief resident at the University of Kansas Medical Center before returning to Texas. He will be retiring from private practice in April to work for the Indian Health Service to provide medical care to Native American reservations as a traveling physician. His wife is a physician as well and he has four children. He maintains an aviation magazine online at: https://theavgeeks.com/ Notable Links: World Health Organization COVID-19 updates (website) JP’s updates on the COVID-19 pandemic (Facebook posts) Ajit Pai (FCC chairman under Donald Trump) 2020 COVID-19 pandemic (global viral outbreak) Social distancing (anti-contagion action) Intubation (medical procedure) Acute respiratory distress syndrome (lung inflammation) 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) 2003 SARS outbreak (global viral outbreak) 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic (global viral outbreak) 2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome (global viral outbreak) CDC Travelers’ Health (website resource) Joshua Lederberg (American molecular biologist) This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. COVID-19 episode art was created by Luke Van Tassel. More of his art online here. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The average human ear tunes out after about six minutes of orality. It used to be nine.” –Elena Passarello In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Elena talk about the first giraffe ever to live in Paris in the 19th century (3:30); how public presentation and performance differs from other kinds of speaking and reading, and how to prepare for it (9:00); the role of nervousness in public speaking, and how to deal with it (21:00); how prepare a text or script before reading or using it as an outline in a public speaking situation (31:00); and the importance of concrete language and “syntactical music” in public speaking (42:00). Elena Passarello is an American writer, actor, and professor. Her book Let Me Clear My Throat (Sarabande, 2012), won the gold medal for nonfiction at the 2013 Independent Publisher Awards, and her essays on performance, pop culture, and the natural world have been published in Oxford American, Slate, and Creative Nonfiction, among other publications,. For more on Elena, check out https://www.elenapassarello.com/. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshop (annual summer creative-writing class) Jardin des Plantes (botanical garden in Paris) Zarafa (giraffe who lived in the Jardin des Plantes) King Charles X of France (19th century king) Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire (French naturalist) Luis Alberto Urrea (poet, novelist, and essayist) Stump speech (standard speech used by a politician) Stage combat (theater technique) Bob Dole (American politician) Ian MacKaye on the history of rock (Deviate episode) Cher Ami (heroic World War I homing pigeon) Gerald Ford (38th president of the United States) T. Geronimo Johnson (author) Al Gore (American politician) Benjamin Percy on telling stories (Deviate episode) Karen Russell (novelist and short story writer) George Saunders (novelist) This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Travel is kind of strength-training for your soul.” –Tara Quinn In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tara talk about she got started coaching people pm setting up work sabbaticals, what her clients’ most common concerns are, and how Americans’ attitude toward work are different from the rest of the world (3:00); common tactics and techniques she employs as a sabbatical coach, and what kinds of clients she attracts (17:00); how to use travel as a pretext for professional development, self-education, and changing careers (28:00); the importance of imperfection and failure in learning useful lessons from travel (40:00); and ending a long-term sabbatical journey and transitioning back into professional life (48:00). Tara Quinn (@threemonthvisa) is a certified life and career coach with a passion for working with clients who dream of taking time off to travel, live, work, study or volunteer abroad. Tara roster of clients includes people from companies such as Apple, Google, Microsoft, Bank of America, UC Berkeley, and The United Nations. For more on Tara and her career, check out http://www.threemonthvisa.com/. Notable Links: Dude, Where’s My Car? (movie) Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) Wanderlust, edited by Don George (book) “Why We Travel,” by Pico Iyer (essay) Pico Iyer on what Japan can teach us about life (Deviate episode) Tales of a Female Nomad, by Rita Golden Gelman (book) Gap year (yearlong break before or after university) Wharton School (business school at UPenn) Gap analysis (comparison of desired versus actual performance) Explore Europe on Foot (Deviate episode) Le Cordon Bleu (culinary school) Digital nomadism (mobile work-travel movement) Bodh Gaya (Buddhist pilgrimage site in India) Culture shock (anxiety from being in an unfamiliar place) CSI: Miami (police procedural TV drama series) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“It doesn’t matter where you’re going. Just find a reason to go.” –Ari Shaffir Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. This episode of Deviate is excerpted from Ari Shaffir’s Skeptic Tank episode #298: Vagabonder. ​In this episode of Deviate, Ari and Rolf sit down in New York’s Tompkins Square Park and talk about the esoteric obsessions that lead you into unique adventures in faraway countries, and the best way to meet people on the road (4:20)​; ​learning languages other than English (11:30); how the presence of communication technology has changed travel, including its social dynamic (17:30); using toilets, eating unfamiliar food, and haggling in markets in non-Western countries (28:00); how travel changes once you’re more experienced as a traveler (53:00); comfort food, ordering food overseas, living as an expat overseas, and getting started out in your career overseas (1:04:00); how expectations affect a journey, and how expectations affect one’s task as a travel writer (1:17:00). Notable Links: The Chernobyl Podcast (HBO companion podcast) Scriptnotes (screenwriting podcast) Another Name for Every Thing (Richard Rohr podcast) Qamishli (Syrian-Turkish border town) Ulpan (school for the intensive study of Hebrew) Yinzer (Pittsburgh vernacular word) Quiet, by Susan Cain (book) Squat toilet (toilet common in Asia and Africa) A few notes on wiping your ass (Barry Sonnenfeld essay) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Hogg Market (Kolkata market) Kelsey Timmerman (author) “Man bites dog,” by Rolf Potts (dog meat article) Balut (Asian street food, boiled egg embryo) Vélib’ (bicycle sharing system in Paris) Mandarin Oriental (Bangkok luxury hotel) Yeshiva (Jewish educational institution) “On the Trans-Siberian Express,” by Rolf Potts (travel essay) Freighthopping (riding a railroad freight car) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate podcast episode) Donahue Show (TV talk show) Thomas Merton (Trappist monk and author) Postcolonialism (academic study of the legacy of imperialism) Cockfighting (blood sport) “Turkish Knockout,” by Rolf Potts (travel essay) Skeptic Tank interview with Henry Rollins (podcast episode) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Part of our lives are lived on social media and part are lived in our heart and in the real world. The discrepancy between the two often makes people miserable.” – Aaron Hamburger In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Aaron discuss identifying with Nirvana (3:00); the nature of genius (11:00); and the search of authenticity (20:00). Aaron Hamburger (@hamburger_aaron) is an author whose writing has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune. He is the author of Nirvana is Here and The View from Stalin’s Head, which was awarded the Rome Prize by the American Academy of Arts and Letters and nominated for a Violet Quill Award. For more on Aaron, check out https://aaronhamburger.com/. Notable Links: Nevermind (music album) Smells like Teen Spirit, by Nirvana (song) Kurt Cobain (musician) Leonard Cohen (singer) McCabe & Mrs. Miller (film) Hallelujah (song) Random Access Memories (music album) The Stone Roses (band) Pixies (band) The Smashing Pumpkins (band) Ferris Bueller’s Day Off (film) Marcel Proust (writer) Claudine at School, by Colette (novel) This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In the late 1980s human beings were your YouTube algorithm. Flesh-and-blood people introduced you to the music that changed your life.” —Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and and Tod talk about Tod’s experience of being in the Jane’s Addiction “Stop!” video (3:00); Rolf reads his essay about discovering the album “Nothing’s Shocking” in 1989 (7:00); Rolf and Tod discuss what it was like to see Jane’s Addiction in the southern California music scene of the mid-late 1980s, versus what listening to AOR radio music was like in the middle of the country (19:30); how radio programming, independent record stores, and personal relationships dictated musical tastes in the 1980s, and how music enabled certain alternative lifestyles (30:00); how Jane’s Addiction influenced the sound of certain 1990s Seattle grunge bands, (38:00); what it’s like when you’re older to listen to music you loved when you were young, and how online algorithms and new technologies have changed the way people now listen to music (44:00); and the legacy of bands like Jane’s Addiction and how they changed the way we listen to music now. Novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg) is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, including the novel Gangsterland, which is currently being developed into a television series for Amazon. He is also the director of the University of California-Riverside Palm Desert Low-Residency MFA, and the co-host of the Literary Disco podcast. Notable links: The 33 1/3 B-sides: Authors on Beloved Albums (book) Jane’s Addiction (alternative band) Nothing’s Shocking (Jane’s Addiction album) Ian MacKaye on the official history of rock music (Deviate episode) Jane’s Addiction’s “Stop!” MTV video Andrew McCarthy on how travel changed his life (Deviate episode) Dramarama (1980s alternative rock band) KROQ (radio station) High Fidelity (movie) Grunge (heavy 1990s “Seattle sound” rock music) Nirvana (1990s alternative rock band) Pansexuality (sexual orientation) Alternative Press (magazine) John the Baptist (biblical figure) Mother Love Bone (pre-Pearl Jam alternative band) Temple of the Dog (1990s rock supergroup) Bruce Springsteen’s cover of Prince’s “Purple Rain” New Order‘s “Age of Consent” (song) Gary Numan‘s “M.E.” (song) This episode is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. Tod Goldberg and Jane’s Addiction bassist Eric Avery at Mt. Baldy in 1990. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Home is in dialogue with the places you travel, and often serves as an interpretive lens.” – Rolf Potts  In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his parents reflect their journey to China and Mongolia many years ago. The episode starts with an excerpt of Rolf’s 2001 NPR dispatch about the experience, then they recall their visit Korea four years earlier, when Rolf worked as an English teacher in Pusan (13:00); then they recount their impressions of staying together in a youth hostel in China, and exploring the sights of Beijing (20:00); and finally they recall their train ride to Mongolia, and their unusual experiences in the countryside outside of Ulan Bator (48:00). George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks. Notable Links: Raising My Parents in Mongolia, by Rolf Potts (NPR broadcast) The Rewatchables (podcast) The great railway bizarre (2018 Deviate podcast episode) On the Trans-Siberian Express, by Rolf Potts (1999 essay) Noraebang (Korean interactive music entertainment) Temple of Heaven (complex of religious buildings in Beijing) Tiananmen Square (large public square in Beijing) Summer Palace (ensemble of gardens and palaces in Beijing) Beijing Museum of Natural History Beijing Zoo  Sedgwick County Zoo (Kansas wildlife park) Flint Hills (iconic prairie region in Kansas) Naadam (Mongolian festival) Ger (Mongolian-style tent) Karakorum (old Mongolian imperial capital) Tough Mongolian horse-riding girl mentioned in episode (photo) This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.