Cloud Security Podcast by Google

Guest: Alex Polyakov, CEO of Adversa.ai Topics: You did research by analyzing 2000 papers on AI attacks released in the previous decade. What are the main insights? How do you approach discovering the relevant threat models for various AI systems and scenarios?  Which threats are real today vs in a few years? What are the common attack vectors? What do you see in the field of supply chain attacks on AI, software supply, data? All these reported cyberphysical attacks on computer vision, how real are they, and what are the possible examples of exploitation? Are they a real danger to people? What are the main differences between protecting AI vs protecting traditional enterprise applications? Who should be responsible for Securing AI? What about for building trustworthy AI? Given that the machinery of AI is often opaque, how to go about discovering vulnerabilities? Is there responsible disclosure for AI vulnerabilities, such as in open-source models and in public APIs?  What should companies do first, when embarking on an AI security program? Who should have such a program? Resources: “EP52 Securing AI with DeepMind CISO” (ep52) “EP68 How We Attack AI? Learn More at Our RSA Panel!” (ep68) Adversarial AI attacks work on Humans (!) “Maverick* Research: Your Smart Machine Has Been Conned! Now What?” (2015) “The Road to Secure and Trusted AI” by Adversa AI “Towards Trusted AI Week 37 – What are the security principles of AI and ML?”  Adversa AI blog AIAAIC Repository Machine Learning Security Evasion Competition at MLSec

Guest:  Badr Salmi, Product Manager for reCAPTCHA Topics: What is reCAPTCHA? Aren’t you guys the super annoying 'click on the busses' thing? What is account defender? Why was this a natural next step for you? What are the actual threats that this handles - and handles well? Specific web attacks? Web fraud? Let’s talk about account fraud, what do these attacks look like and how do bad guys monetize today? What about payment fraud? Could you score a payment session as well as a login session risk, or is that different?  How does this work with multi factor authentication? Recommended reading: “Code” book Recapcha page “Protect your users’ accounts with reCAPTCHA Enterprise’s account defender” blog “Double-clicking, but not on fire hydrants, with bot fighters” (ep19)

Guest: Dimitri McKay,  Principal Security Strategist @ Splunk Topics: How do you define that "XDR thing" that you are so skeptical about? So within that definition of XDR, you think it’s not so great, why? If you have to argue pro-XDR, what would you say? Two main XDR camps are “XDR as EDR+” and “XDR as SIEM-”, which camp do you think is more right? Are both wrong? What approach do you think is more useful as a lens to understand the potential upsides/downsides of XDR? What about the cloud? "Cloud XDR" seems a bit illogical, but what do you think is the future of D&R in the cloud? Resources: “Anton and The Great XDR Debate, Part 1” “Anton and The Great XDR Debate, Part 2” “Anton and The Great XDR Debate, Part 3” SURGe content on splunk blog “Today, You Really Want a SaaS SIEM!” Red Canary 2022 Threat Detection report Verizon DBIR 2022 report.

Guest:  Christopher “CJ” Johnson, retired Fire Chief, and Global Regulated Cloud Product Lead @ Google Cloud Topics: In political science, they define sovereignty as a local monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Why are we talking about “sovereignty” in IT? What is a sovereign cloud?  How much of the term is marketing vs engineering? Who cares or should care about sovereign cloud? Is this about technical controls or paper/policy controls? Or both? What is the role for encryption and key management and key access justifications (like say Google Cloud EKM with KAJ) for sovereign cloud? Is sovereign cloud automatically more secure or at least has better data security? What threat models are considered for sovereign cloud technologies? Resources: Google Cloud External Key Manager (EKM)  “Trust Google Cloud more with ubiquitous data encryption” blog “Software-Defined community cloud - a new way to “Government Cloud”” blog

Guest: David Stone,  Staff Consultant  at Office of the CISO, Google Cloud Topics: Speaking as a former CISO, what triggered your organization migration to the cloud? When did you and the security organization get brought in? How did you plan your security organization journey to the cloud? Did you take going to Cloud as an opportunity to change things beyond the tools you were using?  As you got going into the cloud, what was the hardest part for your organization ? What was most surprising? Good surprise and bad surprise? How did you design security controls for the cloud? How do you validate and verify security controls in the cloud?  How did you incorporate your cloud environment into your SOC’s responsibility Having covered all that tactical terrain, one final strategic question: is moving to Cloud a net risk reduction? Can it be? Resources: “How CISOs need to adapt their mental models for cloud security” “Megatrends drive cloud adoption—and improve security for all” “EP47 Megatrends, Macro-changes, Microservices, Oh My! Changes in 2022 and Beyond in Cloud Security“ (ep47) “CISO’s Guide to Cloud Security Transformation“ paper [PDF] Google SRE book GCAT site

Guest:  John Stone,  Chaos Coordinator @ Office of the CISO, Google Cloud Topics: So what is Autonomic Data Security, described in our just released paper?  What are some notorious data security issues today? Perhaps common data security mistakes security leaders commit? What never worked in data security, like say manual data classification? How should organizations think about securing the data they migrated and the data that was created in the cloud? Do you really believe the cloud can make data security better than data security in traditional environments? Resources: “Modern Data Security: A path to autonomic data security” paper (NEW) “How autonomic data security can help define cloud’s future” blog “Megatrends drive cloud adoption—and improve security for all” blog “Modernizing SOC ... Introducing Autonomic Security Operations” blog “Autonomic Security Operations: 10X Transformation of the Security Operations Center" paper “Zero Trust: Fast Forward from 2010 to 2021” (ep8) “Data Security in the Cloud” (ep2) and the resource. “Modern Data Security Approaches: Is Cloud More Secure?” (ep16) “Reflections on Trusting Trust” paper (1984).

Guest: Gorka Sadowski,  Chief Strategy Officer @ Exabeam Topics: How do we get a legacy SOC team to think about the cloud? How to think about cloud threat detection, in general? What is different … threats, the environment, what else? What is the same?  How do we know which TTPs are relevant for the new environments? What to bring with us to the cloud? Do content/rules and detection engines need to be different to cover the cloud detection use cases? What cases are appropriate for machine learning (ML) in the cloud? Does cloud threats drive the need for new ML detections? Resources: “11 Strategies of a World-Class Cybersecurity Operations Center” paper “Autonomic Security Operations: How to 10X Your SOC” paper “Indicators Of Compromise Vs. Tactics, Techniques, And Procedures” blog “How to Build and Operate a Modern Security Operations Center” (Gartner subscription required) “A SOC Tried To Detect Threats in the Cloud … You Won’t Believe What Happened Next” blog

Guest: Cyrus Robinson, SOC Director and IR Team lead at Ingalls Information Security Topics: You’ve been using SOAR tools for years, so what do you think of the technology so far? What is driving SOAR adoption today? And what is inhibiting SOAR adoption? Realistically, how hard is SOAR to operationalize for a typical company? What are your favorite SOAR playbooks to start with? How to build, train and keep the SOAR team? Do they need to code to succeed? We like the SOAR maturity model approach. How would you imagine a SOAR adoption maturity model? How to implement SOAR from scratch in scaling operations? How to start? How to plan? How to not fail? Resources: “A Simple SOAR Adoption Maturity Model” blog  “Planning Is Paramount When Adopting SOAR” blog Siemplify community version

Guest: Ben Johnson, CTO/co-founder @ Obsidian Security Topics: Why is there so much attention lately on SaaS security? Doesn’t this area date back to 2015 or so? What do you see as the primary challenges in securing SaaS? What does a SaaS threat model look like? What are the top threats you see? CASB has been the fastest growing security market and it has grown into a broad platform and many assume that “securing SaaS = using CASB”, what are they missing? Where would another technology to secure SaaS fit architecturally, inline with CASB or as another API-based system? Securing IaaS spanned a robust ecosystem of vendors (CWPP, CSPM, now CNAPP) and many of these have ambitions for securing SaaS, thus clashing with CASB. Where do you fit in this battle? For a while, you were talking more about CDR - what is it and do we really need a separate CDR technology? Resources: Obsidian Security blog and Resource Center Does the World Need Cloud Detection and Response (CDR)? blog Does the world need Cloud Detection and Response (CDR) as a new market segment? poll MITRE ATT&CK for SaaS matrix CISA SCUBA resource “Essentialism” book.

Guest: Tim Nguyen, Director of Detection and Response @ Google Topics: I know we don’t like to say “SOC” here, so why don’t we talk about the role of automation in detection and response (D&R) at Google? One SRE concept we found useful in security operations is “toil” - How do we squeeze toil out of D&R practice at Google? A combined analyst and engineer role (just like an SRE) was critical for both increasing automation and reducing toil, how hard was it to put this into practice? Tell us about that journey? How do we automate security signal analysis, can you give us a few examples? D&R metrics have been a big pain point for many organizations, how does SRE thinking of SLOs and SLIs (and less about SLAs) helps us in our “not SOC”? How do we avoid falling into the “time to respond” trap that rewards fast response, sometimes at the cost of good? Resource: SRE book, Chapter 5 - Eliminating Toil SRE book, Chapter 4 - Service Level Objectives “Building Secure and Reliable Systems” book “Achieving Autonomic Security Operations: Automation as a Force Multiplier” “Achieving Autonomic Security Operations: Reducing toil” “Taking an autonomic approach to security operations” video “Modern Threat Detection at Google” (ep17)