Cold War Conversations

What is it like to be under secret police surveillance? On 10 March 1983, 12-year-old Carmen Bugan returned from school to find Romanian secret police in her living room. Her father’s protest against the regime had changed her life forever. In recent years Carmen gained access to the files of the Romanian secret police. She herself is surprised by the intimacy of the surveillance. Forgotten conversations, love letters, and arguments are all laid bare via the detailed notes taken by the Securitate. We hear the sadness of discovering friends and family members were involved in informing on them too.  Carmen and I discuss the “language of oppression”, the subtle and not-so-subtle methods used to try and ensure a compliant population but still thwarted by humanity even in the darkest recesses of the Romanian prison system. It’s a warning from history and the meaning of freedom in current times.0:00 Introduction of guest Carmen Bugan and her experience with the Romanian secret police4:08 Carmen's first experience with the secret police at the age of twelve10:55 Initial reactions to reading the secret police files and seeing recorded intimate details18:28 Carmen's discovery of surveillance files and their impact24:12 Carmen reads out a transcript from the files33:57 Carmen on the conflicts stirred by the files41:17 Carmen elaborates on why the secret police needed justifications for arrests49:21 Carmen discusses how family members justified their involvement with the secret police1:02:28 Carmen talks about the power of language to harm and inspire1:13:33 Ian Sanders introduces Carmen Bugan's book and previous episodeTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Buy the book here Carmen Bugan Books UK Listeners Carmen Bugan books US listenersCold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation me will keep this project going and allow me to continue preserving these incredible stories. You’ll join our community, get a sought-after CWC drinks coaster as a thank you, and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome back Carmen Bugan to our Cold War conversation…Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode242/Follow us on Twitter here https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Don't miss Carmen's previous episode " A Childhood under the eye of the Secret Police" here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode147/Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Keith Bailey Joined British Army at 16 in 1973. He was recruited into the Blues and Royals, (Household Cavalry) and served in West Germany as a gunner in Chieftain tanks. However, he was keen to serve in the Royal Military Police and particularly 19 (Support) Platoon known as "The White Mice". Their role was to track the SOXMIS (Soviet Military Mission) in West Germany. SOXMIS operated under a 1946 agreement where the Soviets, British, US and French agreed to exchange mission groups to patrol the opposing side’s then zones of occupation.The agreement continued to 1990 and needless to say both sides bent the rules somewhat… 0:00 Introduction 2:35 Keith Bailey's Military Career and Transition to the Royal Military Police16:39 The Role of the RMP during the Cold War and Bailey's Experience19:11 Joining the 19 Support Platoon and Training23:29 The Presence of Soviet Troops in West Germany and Interactions38:07 Soviet Intelligence Gathering and Anecdotes43:28 Discussion about Soviet Precautions and Protocol for Crossing Sectors51:35 Keith's Collection of Cold War Photos and Discussion on Detaining SOXMIS Vehicles1:07:03 Reaction to the Fall of the Berlin Wall and Post-Cold War Interactions1:18:15 Invitation to Facebook Discussion Group and Closing RemarksTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome Keith Bailey to our Cold War conversation…Episode notes & photos here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode241/Follow us on Twitter here https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/ Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Graham Bate was 30-year-old Civil Servant when he built his own nuclear bunker in the garden of his rural home 20 miles outside Hull in the UK.It was here that the Bate family expected to survive for at least 3 weeks after a nuclear attack.We speak with Graham Bate and his son Conrad who was 5 years old when the bunker was built and has vivid memories of the period.0:00 Introduction and background0:53 Guest Introduction: Graham Bate and his nuclear bunker2:26 The inception and design of Graham's bunker7:04 Family's experience and trial run in the bunker13:27 Reflections on the bunker project20:10 The family's nuclear emergency plan29:11 Security measures and local perspectives on the bunker32:37 Living conditions in the bunker37:03 Graham's fame and bunker building business43:39 Impact of the Cold War on the bunker business46:03 Learning curve and survival in a post-apocalyptic scenarioTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will help preserve these accounts and keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome Graham and Conrad Bate to our Cold War conversation…There’s further information on this episode here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode240/Special thanks to Al McCann who helped facilitate this episode. Please visit his website Northern Ireland's Secret Bunker. A Cold War 'Living' Museum situated in County Armagh https://www.facebook.com/nibunker/If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation.Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You might remember listening to short wave radio during the Cold War and coming across weird transmissions of metallic voices reciting random groups of numbers through the ether. These are number stations, shortwave radio stations characterised by broadcasts of formatted numbers, which were being sent to spies operating in foreign countries.Number stations were used widely during the Cold War and we speak with Jo Reggelt. Jo has been working with Simon Mason who was a founding member of ENIGMA, launched in the 80s after identifying several of these stations.We discuss in detail the operations behind the transmissions and the stations themselves. You will hear some sample transmissions which Jo has kindly allowed us to use, including one with drunken Stasi officers serenading their agents after the opening of the Berlin Wall.We also detail a UK spy case that centred on capturing an agent red-handed listening to a numbers station.There’s further information including links here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode239/0:00 Introduction5:06 Overview of Number Stations20:37 Role of Agents and Attempts to Jam Number Stations29:51 Identification and grouping of number stations35:20 Notable Number Stations: Lincolnshire Poacher and CIA, BND Stations43:15 The Story of Czech Spy: Erwin Van Harlem54:41 Number Stations in Non-Aligned and NATO Nations1:02:26 History of South Tyrol and its Role in the Cold War1:07:27 Impact of the End of the Cold War on Number Stations1:12:25 Influence of Number Stations on Pop CultureTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Now if you think there is a vast army of research assistants, audio engineers and producers putting together this podcast you’d be wrong. This podcast relies on your support to enable me to continue to capture these incredible stories and make them available to everyone for free.If you’d like to help to preserve Cold War history and enable me to continue to produce this podcast you can via one-off or monthly donations.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/ for more details.Do join our Facebook discussion group where the cold war conversation continues between episodes. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Follow us on Twitter here https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Cold War years were a period of unprecedented peace in Europe, yet they also saw a number of localised but nonetheless very intense wars throughout the wider world in which air power played a vital role. I speak with former Cold War Tornado pilot and acclaimed aviation historian Michael Napier who has written Flashpoints: Air Warfare in the Cold War published by Osprey which describes eight of these Cold War conflicts. We discuss the wide range of aircraft types used and the development of tactics over a period of revolution in aviation technology and design which saw some of the most modern technology that the NATO and Warsaw Pact forces deployed.UK listeners buy the book hereUS listeners buy the book here 0:00 Introduction 2:08 Introduction of guest Michael Napier and discussion on the importance of personalizing conflicts7:18 Deep dive into the Suez and Congo conflicts14:54 Role of the UN's air force in conflicts and the impact of combat aircraft24:08 Introduction to the Indo-Pakistan wars and the Arab-Israeli wars34:22 The toll of war on pilots and the international nature of conflicts35:59 Overview of the Iran-Iraq War40:53 The Falklands War: Initial reactions, strategies, and impact50:34 Closing remarks, acknowledgments, and store promotionTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode236/Follow us on Twitter here https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Marti Peterson was the first female CIA operative to be assigned to Moscow, probably the most challenging posting during the Cold War.Don't miss the previous episode here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode236/This second episode turns to TRIGON, the code name for Alexandr Ogorodnik. He was an official in the Soviet Embassy in Bogota, Columbia recruited by the CIA in 1973. Marti and TRIGON never met in person, but they shared information through dead drops and intelligence. We hear about the tradecraft involved.Marti is arrested by KGB agents and taken to Moscow's Lubyanka Prison for questioning and talks in detail about that experience.UK listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcastUS listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcast0:00 Introduction and Marti Peterson's role in the Cold War2:33 Recruitment of Trigon by the CIA10:06 Marti's first dead drop for Trigon and surveillance evasion techniques18:24 Marti Peterson's account of her adrenaline-filled Cold War operations24:12 The value and dissemination of Trigon's intelligence29:55 Growing concerns about Trigon's safety and attempts to communicate33:11 The dead drop and Marti's unexpected encounter37:12 Marti Peterson's arrest, interrogation, and release49:59 Marti Peterson's return to the US and the discovery of Trigon's fate57:38 The aftermath: Trigon's unknown daughter in Bogota and his real identity1:00:21 Marti's meeting with President Jimmy Carter1:02:34 Episode notes, acknowledgement of financial supporters and call for donations1:03:25 The Cold War Conversations online storeTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome Marti Peterson to our Cold War conversation…Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode237/Episode one is here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode236/Follow us on Twitter here https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Marti Peterson was the first female CIA operative to be assigned to Moscow, probably the most challenging posting during the Cold War. Her story begins in Laos during the Vietnam War where she accompanied her husband John, a CIA officer. She describes their life in a small city in Laos, and the devastating news she received on October 19, 1972.Marti returned to the United States and one night at dinner a good friend suggested she look into working for the CIA. After making it clear to CIA recruiters that she didn’t want to be a secretary or an admin assistant they trained her to become an operative, effectively a spy. When Marti was posted to Moscow during the day, she worked as a diplomat at the U.S. Embassy. At night, on weekends and during her lunch breaks, she would report to the CIA station in the same building to do her work as an operative.UK listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcast US listeners buy Marti's the book here and support the podcast0:00 Introduction and Marti Peterson's background1:14 Marti Peterson's life in Moscow as a CIA operative2:50 Marti's early life and college years6:20 Marti's experience as a CIA wife and life in Laos14:22 The path to becoming a CIA operative36:50 Training and preparation for Moscow40:10 Arrival and adaptation to life in Moscow49:54 Social life and intelligence work in Moscow53:31 Teaser for the next episode about Trigon54:52 Store promotion and closing remarksTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome Marti Peterson to our Cold War conversation…Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode236/Listen to episode 2 here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode237/Follow us on Twitter here https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook here https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.The Cold War Conversations BookshopHelp us to continue recording the stories of the Cold War by using our bookshop.Please leave a review.If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a written review.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The 13th World Festival of Youth and Students was held from 1–8 July 1989 in Pyongyang, the capital of North Korea. It was the largest international event staged in North Korea up until then.The event took four years of preparation by the North Korean government, which effectively spent a quarter of the country's yearly budget (US$4.5 billion) on it. Ultimately declared as the largest ever World Festival of Youth and Student with about 22,000 people from 177 countries attending.This event was the last festival held during the Cold War era as waves of unrest began to occur throughout Central and Eastern Europe later on in the year.Greg Elmer has directed the film “The Canadian Delegation” which features long time activist Chris Frazer who was handed the task of assembling a Canadian delegation to North Korea. The film follows Frazer and a number of other delegates as they recount their participation in the Festival as world events continued to unfold around them.Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.Today’s episode is hosted by co-host Peter Ryan. I am delighted to welcome Greg Elmer to our Cold War conversation…0:00 Introduction and background of the 13th World Festival of Youth and Students2:21 Interview with Greg Elma: The History and Politics of the Youth Festivals9:15 Economic implications of North Korea's festival expenditures12:06 The Canadian Delegation: Composition and Journey to Pyongyang21:19 Festival Atmosphere and Experiences in North Korea27:18 Delegates' Realizations and Long-Term Impact of the Festival36:44 The Canadian Delegation's Response to Tiananmen Square45:20 Reaction to the Film "The Canadian Delegation"53:19 How to Access the Film on Vimeo and Future Plans54:07 Ian Sanders' Closing Remarks and Cold War Conversations' Call to ActionTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Watch the film hereThere’s further information and videos here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode235/If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated.The Cold War Conversations BookshopHelp us to continue recording the stories of the Cold War by using our bookshop.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ian Foulkes was exposed to the deadly nerve agent Sarin in 1983 at the Porton Down Chemical & Biological Defence Establishment., one of the UK's most secretive and controversial military research facilities.Ian describes in detail the process and the ill effects this caused him and shares details of a little-known fatality where 20-year-old Ronald Maddison died 45 minutes after what scientists thought was 200mg of liquid Sarin dripped onto his arm.We also talk about the development of chemical weapons during the Cold War and the history of the Porton Down Chemical & Biological Defence Establishment. Up to 20,000 people took part in various trials at Porton Down from 1949 up to 1989. In 2004 Maddison’s death was ruled to have been Corporate Manslaughter. The MoD withdrew a challenge to this ruling minutes before the hearing. In 2008 the MoD paid 600 veterans of the tests £8k each without admitting liability.Now if you think there is a vast army of research assistants, audio engineers and producers putting together this podcast you’d be wrong. This podcast relies on your support to enable me to continue to capture these incredible stories and make them available to everyone for free. If you’d like to help to preserve Cold War history and enable me to continue to produce this podcast you can via one-off or monthly donations.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/ for more details.0:00 Introduction and background of the 13th World Festival of Youth and Students2:21 Interview with Greg Elma: The History and Politics of the Youth Festivals9:15 Economic implications of North Korea's festival expenditures12:06 The Canadian Delegation: Composition and Journey to Pyongyang21:19 Festival Atmosphere and Experiences in North Korea27:18 Delegates' Realizations and Long-Term Impact of the Festival36:44 The Canadian Delegation's Response to Tiananmen Square45:20 Reaction to the Film "The Canadian Delegation"53:19 How to Access the Film on Vimeo and Future Plans54:07 Ian Sanders' Closing Remarks and Cold War Conversations' Call to ActionTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨Do join our Facebook discussion group where the cold war conversation continues between episodes. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In 1964, pilot Captain Hansen found himself unemployed. He began to send out feelers to several companies including one that had placed an ad in the Washington Post called Air America. When he was called in for an interview which primarily consisted of two questions - can you fly good and do you drink a lot.Air America was the airline owned by the CIA. Its operations were unknown. Its schedules were irregular. Its pilots were shadow people. Its world was the world of spooks, covert air ops, adventure, and danger. Hansen would be flying in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and other locations in Southeast Asia. It could not have been a better fit for Hansen, an addicted adrenaline junkie. He would end up staying in Asia for over a decade and was fortunate enough to live to tell us about it in his book “Flight”Buy Neil's book hereCold War history is disappearing; however a simple monthly donation will help preserve it and keep this podcast on the air. You’ll get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome Neil Hansen to our Cold War conversation…Further information is here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode233/0:00 Introduction of guest, Neil Hansen, and his journey with Air America2:02 Call for financial support for the Cold War Conversations podcast3:35 Hansen's recruitment and early experiences with Air America13:31 Hansen's black flight missions and promotion within Air America20:13 Hansen's unique flight training methods and handling emergencies26:12 Planning missions and gathering intelligence in Vietnam and Laos30:53 Hansen's first-hand account of the Tet Offensive41:21 Navigating the dangers and challenges in Laos during the Cold War1:00:01 Hansen's harrowing experience of being shot down and bailing out1:04:07 The last flight out of Cambodia: Neil Hansen's escape and reflection1:20:26 Neil Hansen's fight for recognition, his book, and concluding remarksTable of contents powered by PodcastAI✨If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices