The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Financial TherapyAn interview with Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, LMSW, about therapists talking about money with their clients. Curt and Katie talk with Lindsay about what therapists miss if they don’t bring money into the room. We look at the importance of financial therapy both for clients who are struggling financially as well as for clients who might be making more than you (and everyone in between). It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Lindsay Bryan Podvin, LMSW, Financial TherapistLindsay Bryan-Podvin is a biracial financial therapist, speaker, and author. As the first financial therapist in Michigan, she combines financial literacy with the emotional and psychological side of money. She's passionate about helping couples and individuals learn how to have a healthy relationship with money by removing shame from it. She helps her clients navigate financial wellness in a way that works for them.In this episode we talk about: Talking about money in the therapy room beyond budgeting How frequently therapists avoid talking about money Bias that therapists bring into the room around money The challenge therapists face when money becomes an issue in session How money issues come up for people who have money (not just people who have a lack of money) The irony of therapists being told we shouldn’t make money Myths surrounding financial therapy Therapists already have the skills they need to do this work The Four Financial Archetypes that Lindsay adapted from Dr. Brad Klontz’s work The work needed to address your Financial Archetype The types of conversations that can happen when you open up money as a topic of conversation in therapy Looking at cultural and gender roles within the money conversation The intervention of “money dates” The importance of recognizing limitations in talking about money

Greater Impact as a TherapistAn interview with Kiaundra Jackson, LMFT about how to grow a big impact through personal branding, speaking, and breaking into larger media channels. Curt and Katie talk with Kiaundra about the importance of authenticity, owning your credibility, and diversifying your income through alternate methods to get your message out there.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Kiaundra Jackson, LMFTKiaundra Jackson is known as America's #1 Relationship Therapist. She has been seen on OWN’s new hit TV Show, Love Goals and as a reoccurring expert on The Doctors. She has been recently featured in Oprah’s Magazine, Essence, The New York Times, FOX, The CW, BET, Vice and The Huffington Post as one of the ‘10 Black Female Therapists You Should Know.’ She is an award-winning speaker, best-selling author, TV Personality and a trusted Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist that gets results. She is a noted expert on healthy relationships and mental health. Kiaundra is the visionary of KW Couples Therapy and the Co-Founder of Black Speakers Rock.Through her early work, she discovered the importance of having healthy relationships. From that point on, she chose to specialize in helping couples strengthen and repair their relationships. She helps to improve intimacy with couples by increasing effective two­-way communication. She is dedicated to helping couples increase sexual, physical, emotional, and spiritual intimacy. Kiaundra specializes in working with couples who truly desire to maintain a healthy, long-lasting relationship and uncover their true potential.Kiaundra’s vision is to help ONE MILLION couples heal their relationships, prevent divorce, and keep families together. In this episode we talk about: Kiaundra’s goal of helping therapists create an impact beyond the therapy room The importance of being authentic and showing up the same way wherever you are (on a stage or in the therapy room) Intentional effort to make your public persona through your expertise, your credibility, and your self – based on the story people might tell about you when you’re not there, living out loud How to claim your credibility, even when you’re not ready to believe it Therapists have a huge wealth of knowledge, so we need to identify what we want to talk about The vulnerability of putting yourself on a larger stage Combatting the haters by focusing on those people who do love you or resonate with you Impostor Syndrome based on being vulnerable and in the public eye “People don’t always watch you because they want to see you to win, they’re waiting for that one moment for you to mess up.” – Kiaundra Jackson, LMFT We have to put this aside and show up every time The importance of showing up more consistently on social media, especially with live videos Showing up in your community – speaking at smaller events, giving back to our community The ability to give more information to your applications for conferences or podcast interviews, if you have a social media presence How to use a larger brand to impact others, serve others, and diversify income Things to consider when making a decision on what you do – core values, financial compensation, and connection – as well as sorting through what is beneficial There is nothing wrong with doing free speaking engagements – but you need to be strategic about it The additional benefits you can ask for when getting a free or lower paid speaking offer Make sure your target audience is in the audience where you are speaking (and you’re talking about what you’d like to work on, your expertise, and how you’d like to grow)

Is Therapy an Opiate of the Masses?Curt and Katie chat about how therapy can collude with the status quo and has historically failed to serve marginalized populations. We talk about the risks of therapy that doesn’t honor the context and systems within which people and families operate. We look at how therapists can create complacence and obedience if not careful.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Criticisms of therapy as an opiate of the masses Does therapy reinforce the status quo? “Normal” as a culture bound concept Feminist Therapy, Liberation Psychology, Decolonized Therapy The history of pathologizing or demonizing LGBTQ+ Therapy as a white construct Bias in MMPI and re-norming How bias toward “normal” permeates clinical work How therapists reinforce systems norms, encouraging placating the system First, Second, and Third Order change – Individual within family within the systems within which the family operates Individual versus collective change The challenge of assessing and treating within the complex overlay of systems The limitations of evidence-based treatments The vision of acceptance of diversity Therapist training gaps The Seven-Eyed Model of Supervision Impacts for case conceptualization Looking at clients as agents of change, as impacted by their context Validating experiences, increasing resilience and capacity, empowering client to make larger changes Suggesting coping skills without diminishing systemic impacts Therapy as a bandaid “As therapists, we can do a really good job of moving people to complacence if we’re not careful.” – Katie Helping individuals to heal, then moving to “now that” The requirement for therapists to be advocates for change within their communities

Exploring Trauma and the 12 StepsAn interview with Dr. Jamie Marich, on her revised book: Trauma and the 12 Steps, exploring how 12 Step programs can be trauma-informed. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Marich about how to interweave a trauma-focus into substance abuse self-help and treatment centers.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Jamie Marich, Ph.D., LPCC-S, LICDC-CS, REAT, RYT-500, RMTDr. Jamie Marich describes herself as a facilitator of transformative experiences. A clinical trauma specialist, expressive artist, writer, yogini, performer, short filmmaker, Reiki master, and recovery advocate, she unites all of these elements in her mission to inspire healing in others. She began her career as a humanitarian aid worker in Bosnia-Hercegovina from 2000-2003, primarily teaching English and music while freelancing with other projects. Jamie travels internationally teaching on topics related to trauma, EMDR therapy, expressive arts, mindfulness, and yoga, while maintaining a private practice in her home base of Warren, OH. Marich is the founder of the Institute for Creative Mindfulness and the developer of the Dancing Mindfulness practice to expressive arts therapy. She is also the co-creator of the Yoga Unchained approach to trauma-informed yoga, and the developer of Yoga for Clinicians. Marich is the author of EMDR Made Simple: 4 Approaches for Using EMDR with Every Client (2011), Trauma and the Twelve Steps: A Complete Guide for Recovery Enhancement (2012), Creative Mindfulness (2013), Trauma Made Simple: Competencies in Assessment, Treatment, and Working with Survivors, and Dancing Mindfulness: A Creative Path to Healing and Transformation (2015). Marich co-authored EMDR Therapy & Mindfulness for Trauma-Focused Care along with colleague Dr. Stephen Dansiger, which was released with Springer Publishing in 2017. Her newest title, Process Not Perfection: Expressive Arts Solutions for Trauma Recovery, released in April 2019. North Atlantic Books is publishing a second and expanded edition of Trauma and the 12 Steps, due for release in the Summer of 2020. Marich’s writing and work on Dancing Mindfulness was featured in the New York Times in 2017. In 2015, she had the privilege of delivering a TEDx talk on trauma. NALGAP: The Association of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender Addiction Professionals and Their Allies awarded Jamie with their esteemed President’s Award in 2015 for her work as an LGBT advocate. The EMDR International Association (EMDRIA) granted Jamie the 2019 Advocacy in EMDR Award for her using her public platform in media and in the addiction field to advance awareness about EMDR therapy and to reduce stigma around mental health.In this episode we talk about: Jamie Marich’s return to the podcast The Revised and Expanded Trauma and the 12 Steps The large variation in the programs for substance abuse treatment in whether they are able to include a trauma-informed lens What it looks like to actually interweave the trauma-informed structure to substance abuse tx The power and impact of one alcoholic talking to another The importance of connection, community and relationships The changing face of recovery (including starting with 2 white men and becoming more diverse and inclusive) Attraction rather than promotion Validating strife and struggle then challenging it The bridge between trauma mental health treatment and recovery The fear about trauma work within the addiction community

Work Harder Than Your ClientsCurt and Katie chat about why and when you should ignore the advice to “not work harder than your clients.” We look at bias in goal-setting, managing risk, focusing on the client’s needs, and the importance of continuing education as well as on-going work outside of session.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The adage that you shouldn’t work harder than your clients The concern that it gives permission to be lazy. The importance of working hard as a therapist Simplification of the concept of being more invested in the outcome than the client Bad therapy practices – bias, lack of client determination, focusing on traditional treatment outcomes, investment in a specific outcome that may or may not align with clients’ values Be present with your client on purpose, working hard Deliberate practice versus complacency Preparing for the situations that may come up, not just one specific concern The “how” of therapy – looking at language, understanding, and relationship with the client Consultation, self-assessment, case formulation Better understanding of what the true workload is compared to your caseload What you shouldn’t be doing to work harder within session The business implications of working harder Dismantling the truisms and oversimplified statements that get passed around Clinical situations that require you to work harder than the clients Working harder than a check box (clinical implications rather than liability check box) Self-management – understanding why you’re doing what you’re doing Questions to consider when looking at your efforts Collaborative treatment planning (both overt and covert) The impact of doing anti-racist work with clients who are not ready for it The importance of identifying whose goal is being pursued in the room The benefits of supervision and consultation How to set covert goals, looking at work outside of session and timing Dismantling assumptions and meeting clients where they are The harder work we have to do is the work we need to do on ourselves Responding to clients with curiosity, professionality, comfort, and authenticity

Bi+ ErasureAn interview with Dr. Mimi Hoang, Ph.D., about Bi+ Affirmative therapy and what therapists often get wrong about working with Bi+ people. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Mimi about how often Bi+ people are left out of the conversation (and training) regarding LGBTQ+ people, the consistent erasure and exclusion Bi+ people face, the biases that show up in the therapy room, and how therapists can better prepare themselves for working with the largest segment of the LGBTQ+ community.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dr. Mimi Hoang, Ph.D. (she/her/hers), Psychologist, Author, and ActivistDr. Mimi Hoang is a nationally-recognized psychologist, educator, author, and grassroots activist specializing in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ+) and Asian Pacific Islander (API) communities. Since the 1990s, she has co-founded three organizations in Los Angeles for bisexual, pansexual, fluid, and other nonmonosexual (AKA "bi+") individuals, authored multiple publications, and earned a seat at the landmark 2013 White House Bisexual Community Roundtable. Dr. Mimi's steadfast leadership has earned her multiple awards, a feature in Jan Dee Gordon's LGBTQ of Steel photography book, mentions in Cosmopolitan and HuffPost, and being named “One of the Most Significant Women in the Bisexual Movement.” She currently works as a Staff Psychologist at Loyola Marymount University (LMU) Student Psychological Services, Professor of Clinical Psychology at Antioch University Los Angeles, and is the creator of the "Bi on Life" self-empowerment series. Learn more at www.drmimihoang.com.In this episode we talk about: The tendency for conversations around LGBTQ+ training often leaves out information bisexuality Mimi’s story, including the organizations she has created to support people who are bisexual, pansexual, fluid, and other nonmonosexual individuals The challenge of identifying within a binary of gay or straight and heteronormativity What therapists often get wrong when working with Bi+ clients How likely it is that your client will come out to you The biases against bisexuality in the therapy room Misunderstanding, over simplification, quantification, and other problems in exploring sexuality with Bi+ people Bi-Phobia from the gay community and code switching to “fit in” The concept of Bi Erasure The reasons for Bi+ erasure and exclusion The doubt of existence of bisexuality The huge gap in psychotherapist education related to bisexuality The importance of getting more training on bisexuality Asking the sexual orientation question, exploring sexuality Neutralizing your language when talking about partners Best practices for treating Bi+ people

Reigniting TherapyAn interview with Dr. Daryl Chow regarding how to do effective therapy. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Chow about the ways in which therapists can improve clinically – looking at the relationship, the expectations of clients, and what we each uniquely bring to the room. We also discuss deliberate practice, lifelong learning, and the difference between confidence and competence.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Daryl Chow, MA, PhD (Psych)Daryl Chow, MA, PhD (Psych) is a practicing psychologist and trainer. He is a senior associate of the International Center for Clinical Excellence (ICCE). He devotes his time to workshops, consultations and researches the development of expertise and highly effective psychotherapists, helping practitioners to achieve better results.Daryl is the author of The First Kiss: Undoing the Intake Model and Igniting First Sessions in Psychotherapy. His work has also appeared in edited books, peer-reviewed journal articles, and he is a co-editor of The Write to Recovery: Personal Stories & Lessons about Recovery from Mental Health Concerns.Daryl’s blog, Frontiers of Psychotherapist Development is aimed at inspiring and sustaining practitioners’ individualized professional development. His highly personalized in-depth online course for supervisors, Reigniting Clinical Supervision, serves as a leading light to help raise the bar of effectiveness in psychotherapy.Currently, Daryl maintains a private practice with a vibrant team at Henry Street Centre, Fremantle, and continues to serve as a senior psychologist at the Institute of Mental Health, Singapore.In this episode we talk about: Chow describing himself as a slow learner The value of deep learning The problems with therapist education Banking versus kindling model of education Learning conversation versus theory The importance of practical learning How we get in the way as therapists How to manage first sessions (what you are gifting, versus what you are taking) Undoing the intake perspective We are not in the business of fast food Trajectory of change, continuity of services 20-30% of people come only for one session “Sufficing” our information rather than deep probing “Information is not transformation” – Dr. Daryl Chow First principles and the hero’s journey Evidence-based therapy versus developing good therapists Deliberate practice as a verb “It is so much easier to buy tools than to get good” What is NOT deliberate practice “Confidence is not competence” We get worse as therapists over time if we don’t practice deliberately The importance of lifelong learning The systemic challenges to maintaining skills and getting better What to work on that has leverage for you – finding your own growth edges Measuring growth versus measuring performance

Mission Driven WorkCurt and Katie chat about walking your talk, sticking to your mission, and being strategic in how you incorporate new initiatives and perspectives into your work. We look at the tendency to take action without thinking about where you fit into the conversation and without tying those actions back to your mission and why you do what you do.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The importance of focusing on your mission when making decisions in your business Looking at why you do what you do Implementing your mission within your business Practical applications and systems to support new initiatives aligned with mission-driven work Times when following your personal mission may be hard to do as a therapist The importance of staying true to yourself and aligned with your mission and expertise The difference between branding, marketing, and mission What are you putting out into the world? The danger of putting out something quickly in response to the zeitgeist versus aligning with your mission and your expertise What is a mission and how do you develop one? Getting strategic in how you incorporate new information into mission-driven work The need for thinking and analysis before taking action Sitting with discomfort and avoiding reacting too quickly Intentional pathway guided by thought and strategy Mission is not just a goal, it is how you work, who you want to work with, how you want to work, the guiding principles, how you make decisions Broad, vague missions that are just “help people” or “do good things” do not support making a decision on how you respond to crises Tying your actions to your mission will allow it to sustain momentum past the news cycle How to incorporate antiracism into a business that is focused on addressing something else The assessment of how you can leverage your resources to help something change The ability to add antiracism practices internally that have a bigger impact than having an externally focused product or service The importance to staying within your purview and yield the floor to those whose work and mission should be central Ineffective ways to do ally work, burning out and arguing with people who will not change Tweet Thread from Ijeoma Oluo Our mission and how we are recommitting to each of the changes we see needed in therapy and therapist education

Therapy as a Political ActAn interview with Dr. Travis Heath, PhD, regarding the myth that therapists can remain neutral and be considered not “political”. Curt and Katie talk with Travis about how he perceives effective therapy and how to interrogate the ways in which people interact within the systems where they live and work (and what they consider to be absolute truths). We also look at decolonizing therapy and honoring preferred, culturally relevant methods of healing. Finally, we look at being a therapist (and especially a BIPOC therapist) during this time – the ways we can support each other and the opportunities we have to impact real change with our clients.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dr. Travis Heath, PhDTravis Heath is an Associate Professor of Psychology at Metropolitan State University of Denver. He has worked in Los Angeles, California and is currently a licensed psychologist practicing in Denver, Colorado. The work he has been focused on includes shifting from a multicultural approach to counseling to one of cultural democracy that invites people to heal in mediums that are culturally near. Writing he has contributed to has focused on the use of rap music in narrative therapy, working with persons entangled in the criminal justice system in ways that maintain their dignity, narrative practice stories as pedagogy, a co-created questioning practice called reunion questions, and community healing strategies. He is currently co-authoring the first book on Contemporary Narrative Therapy with David Epston. His practice has been apprenticed by David Epston, substantially influenced by the work of Makungu Akinyela, and inspired by collaborators such as marcela polanco, Tom Carlson, Sasha Pilkington, and Kay Ingamells. He has been fortunate enough to run workshops and speak about his work in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Hong Kong, India, New Zealand, Norway, United Kingdom, and United States.In this episode we talk about: Travis’s personal history and its relevance to the current conversation Therapy as a political act How neutrality fits into the idea of politics-free therapy – “Neutrality is a political position” Narrative therapy’s role in anti-racism Interrogating systems at play in clients’ decision-making Challenging assumptions and “absolute truths” How therapists are impacted by the stories and perspectives of their clients How to manage clients who have held positions that are threatening to you as an individual The systems perspective on how people behave and how systems shape their beliefs The place for antiracism work within therapy “We don’t need more social justice theories; we’ve got many of those. We need more social justice practices” A framework to carry social justice in therapy beyond the current news cycle The problem with multicultural counseling Decolonizing therapy – looking at how to restore culturally relevant methods of healing The problem with CBT for non-Eurocentric clients Preferred mediums of healing and cultural democracy The mediocracy of typical therapy prescriptions Elevating the knowledge of the other Expertise in asking the right questions and elevating the expertise of the other Co-creation of tools and strategies The liberating effect of asking your client for their inherent knowledge Where to use your role as expert

Ally is a VerbCurt and Katie chat about how to engage in ally work. We look at white fragility, helpful and harmful responses during times of crisis, and how to leverage privilege appropriately to work to address systemic racism and oppression. We encourage people to step beyond keyboard warriorship and focusing on ourselves to taking actions that can impact real change.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Latest incidences of systemic oppression (George Floyd, Christian Cooper) and how they have impacted the current conversations about racism, ally work, and therapy White Fragility and how it can show up during times of crisis How white women in distress distract ALLY (from Kayla Reed): A- always center the impacted L- listen & learn from those who live in the oppression L- leverage your privilege Y-yield the floor The need to identify positive ways to do anti-racist, ally work Assessing your motivation to say things publicly The lure of taking actions that only check a box or make us feel better Discomfort and pain that we must sit in, if we’re going to really do the work What can actually move the needle for systemic change Amplifying voices versus shifting the focus or stepping in front of people who need to be heard Bullying and bystanders Learning and researching on our own, versus requiring clinicians of color to do the emotional labor of teaching us Myths of being an ally Therapists who are invested in the status quo and the white washing that happens when those types of comments are erased The importance of acknowledging history (including racism) and whiteness The difference between “all racists are bad people” and we are in a racist system and thus are all racist The damage done when denying the past, gaslighting communities of color Showing up as a white therapist with a client who is in a marginalized community The need for cultural humility and awareness of what is going on Recognizing reality and how we cannot just “cope” hard enough to make this goes away Crisis management when you are working with risk factors (suicidality, homicidality, abuse) and the importance to understand the additional risk calling police or other government agencies on your clients within the black community Alternatives for managing risk, looking at community resources The challenges of doing ally work as a therapist The slow and arduous process of treating overtly racist clients: listening to fears and perspective