

The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy
Curt Widhalm, LMFT and Katie Vernoy, LMFT
The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide: Where Therapists Live, Breathe, and Practice as Human Beings It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when clinicians must develop a personal brand to market their private practices, and are connecting over social media, engaging in social activism, pushing back against mental health stigma, and facing a whole new style of entrepreneurship. To support you as a whole person, a business owner, and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 4, 2022 • 1h 7min
What You Should Know About Walk and Talk Therapy and Other Non-Traditional Counseling Settings – Part 2
What You Should Know About Walk and Talk Therapy and Other Non-Traditional Counseling Settings – Part 2Curt and Katie chat about non-traditional therapy settings like outdoor walk and talk therapy as well as home-based counseling. In the second of a two-part, continuing education podcourse series, we look at law and ethics, accessibility, informed consent, navigating confidentiality, dual relationships, and what therapist might want to consider before getting started.In this continuing education podcast episode, we look at the laws and ethics related to non-traditional therapy settingsFor our fourth CE-worthy podcourse, we’re looking at the laws and ethics of bringing therapy into non-traditional settings, including walk and talk therapy and home visits. We cover a lot of topics in this episode:Debunking the hesitations of using non-traditional therapy settings
Minimizing liability and concerns related to these environments
Is it unethical to not consider these environments?
Access and payment, including insurance/managed health care concerns and fee setting
Unpredictability in the environment
Scheduling and permission for services
Business practices and systems that support this type of dynamic practice
Accessibility of walk & talk and home-based therapies
Financial, physical or other types of accessibility (and navigating those)
Ways to make sure you clients can access the service and are prepared for the environment
Extending boundaries and the consequences of these situations
Documentation of any concerns that arise
Clinician comfort and preference, do no harm, and do good
Informed Consent for non-traditional therapies
Client choice and appropriateness, including informed opt-in (and opt out)
Health conditions, screening or attestation related to risk and liability
Clinician safety and how to talk with your client about these concerns
Cancellation policies and back up plans
Ability to terminate (both passively and actively)
Collaboration and communication
Confidentiality when you’re meeting outside of the therapy office
Managing the risks of the limits of confidentiality in these other settings
Collateral consent forms for additional members of the treatment
Release forms for others in the home
Co-creating the plan to manage these situations
Ideas for how to explain the relationship, if needed
Active and passive loss of confidentiality (and how to talk about these risks)
Boundaries versus confidentiality (for example where in someone’s home to meet)
Documentation and consultation
Dual Relationships that can happen during walk and talk or home-based therapies
Professional therapy never includes sex
Casual nature of the relationship in these settings and the threat of friendship vibes
Not all dual relationships are problematic
Host/guest dynamics as something to pay attention to, but not necessarily harmful
Navigating the potential medical needs of home-bound clients (helping and/or advocating for more help)
What therapists should assess before getting started
Liability and malpractice
Logistics and planning
Assessing client vs clinician benefit
Assessing competency for these types of services
Training, consultation, supervision, documentation

Mar 28, 2022 • 1h 7min
What You Should Know About Walk and Talk Therapy and Other Non-Traditional Counseling Settings
What You Should Know About Walk and Talk Therapy and Other Non-Traditional Counseling SettingsCurt and Katie chat about non-traditional therapy settings like outdoor walk and talk therapy as well as home-based counseling. In the first of a two-part, continuing education podcourse series, we look at the basics, including why therapists should consider these settings (and may not), clinical and cultural considerations, and best practices.In this continuing education podcast episode, we look at non-traditional therapy settingsFor our third CE-worthy podcourse, we’re looking at the basics of bringing therapy into non-traditional settings, including walk and talk therapy and home visits. We cover a lot of topics in this episode:What are non-traditional therapy settings?
The focus of this episode is walk and talk and home-based therapy
Client’s locations like home, school, or work; community-based settings
Anything beyond the typical therapy office or telehealth settings are worthy of consideration
Creativity and collaboration in creating the space
How different the therapy can be when opening up more settings as possibilities
Why should therapists consider these non-traditional therapy settings?
Logistical considerations that can lead to these settings being the ideal choice (or only choice)
Clinical indications that walk and talk or home-based therapy is a better choice
The impact on changing settings on the therapeutic relationship and the therapeutic work
Specific modalities that are best served by client-centered spaces
Assessment, treatment teaming
How access, attendance, and attrition are impacted
The therapeutic impact of the settings and movement
What are the hesitations therapists have in considering alternative settings for therapy?
The challenges in creating systems and managing the logistics
Lack of alignment with the medical model
Lack of training and guidance
Legal and Ethical considerations (that will be talked about in next week’s episode)
What are the clinical and cultural considerations when doing therapy outside or in someone’s home?
Navigating the shifting relationship and boundaries
Cultural differences between therapist and client, and assumptions made about the relationship
The importance of leading the conversation about these relationships
Hospitality and others who may be present at a client’s home
The unusual space, the level of confidentiality, and emotional containment and depth of conversation
Treatment planning based on where you meet and how the client interacts with the space
The importance of the clinician holding the therapeutic space and attention
Creating the space and the contract for how therapy will happen
Cultural norms for the activities and for the client and family – more complexity to discuss
Clinical How-To for Non-traditional Settings
Assessment considerations
Client and clinician characteristics
Alignment with treatment goals and presenting concerns
Presenting issues can vary and assessment can be important
Initial assessment appointments and making the decision early in treatment
Treatment Formulation related to active versus passive interaction with the space
The importance of true informed consent and the dynamic nature of process contracting
Introducing predictability
Risk assessment
Knowing your scope and what types of professionals you might consider consulting

Mar 21, 2022 • 36min
Now Modern Therapists Need to Document Every F*cking Thing in Our Progress Notes?!?
Now Modern Therapists Need to Document Every F*cking Thing in Our Progress Notes?!?Curt and Katie discuss a recent citation from the California Board of Behavioral Sciences (BBS) to a therapist for cursing while in session. We explore: How do we document ruptures during the therapy session? Is the BBS over-reaching by controlling what therapists document? What are the best practices for note taking? All of this and more in the episode.In this podcast episode we talk about appropriate documentation practices for modern therapistsAs therapists it’s important that we take accurate notes. But what is important to include in the notes, and how much should we really be documenting?Wait – Is it alright to use curse words in session?
Therapists should be first and foremost aware of the client and their potential reaction.
Note the therapeutic relationship with the client, their history, and how the client empowers themself when making language selections.
If considering using casual language, consider the client’s vernacular.
Follow the client’s lead when it comes to their language in session, including cursing.
The BBS has no specific statute related to cursing or swearing.
What should modern therapists document in clinical notes?
It is important to document any bold interventions or ruptures in the therapeutic relationship and repair attempts for ruptures.
In note taking, it is important to follow the clinical loop: assessment, diagnosis, treatment plan, intervention, use of intervention, and the client’s reaction and progress.
Your notes will be a balance of covering your liability and creating notes that help you remember the session.
Therapists should consider documenting the use of any language that could be deemed not clinically appropriate, even positive statements like “I’m proud of you,” or “Yes, my dear.”
Does the California Board of Behavioral Sciences (BBS) outline what we should say in our notes?
In the 300-page PDF outlining the statutes for LPCCs, LMFTs, LCSWs, and Educational Psychologists, notes are only mentioned 10 times.
There is no mention in the statutes of what can be said and what can’t be said in notes.
Some agencies and institutions will stress writing very little to ensure protection from liability, but as this citation showcases, this might not be best practice.
The BBS wants to ensure the protection of clients and you might need to justify your words, just as you would justify the use of an intervention.
This is a reminder that the BBS can and do look at therapist’s notes.
Support The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide on Patreon!If you love our content and would like to bring the conversations deeper, please support us on our Patreon. For as little as $2 per month we're able to bring you more content, exclusive offerings, and more opportunities to engage in our growing modern therapist community. These contributions help us to expand our offerings for continuing education events and a whole lot more. If you don't think you can make a monthly contribution – no worries – we also have a buy me a coffee profile for one-time donations support us at whatever level you can today it really helps us out. You can find us at patreon.com/mtsgpodcast or buymeacoffee.com/moderntherapist. Thanks everyone.

Mar 14, 2022 • 34min
Do Therapists Curse in Session?
Do Therapists Curse in Session?Curt and Katie discuss a recent citation from the California Board of Behavioral Sciences (BBS) to a therapist for cursing while in session. We explore: Can therapists swear in session? Should they? Are there times when cursing is appropriate in session? Are therapists allowed to make errors without the fear of citation from their board? We explore these and more in this episode. In this podcast episode we talk about the ethics and responsibilities of cursing in session.After hearing about the citation for a clinician who had cursed in session, we wanted to explore what is acceptable related to using curse words in session. We know as therapists that what we say matters, and now more than ever our choice of language matters. Who is allowed to curse in the therapy room? We tackle this question in depth:Is swearing or cursing ever appropriate in session?
Both Curt and Katie swear in session when appropriate
Swearing in session can create a more authentic therapeutic rapport with some clients
Sometimes clients will ask for permission to swear in session
Follow the client’s lead when it comes to their language in session, including cursing
It is mostly important to reflect the client’s language without judgement
Clients might be looking for more humanity in their therapists
Therapists are people; curses can slip out when therapists feel depleted and without resource
Cursing based on your own humanity can cause therapeutic rupture and clinicians should be mindful of the therapeutic alliance and make repair attempts
What does the research show us about swearing?
Some research suggests that cursing out loud decreases pain
“Professional language” is often rooted in whiteness with a goal of excluding people of color
When not accurately reflecting a client’s language, you run the risk of editing them
Swearing speech is primarily meant to convey connotative or emotional meaning with emphasis
What do professional organizations say now about cursing in session?
The BBS recently cited a therapist for swearing in session as unprofessional language
Only one professional organization, The National Association of Social Workers, officially bars cursing in session – specifically derogatory language
Swearing speech is primarily meant to convey connotative or emotional meaning with emphasis
Therapists have a responsibility to make sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with clients
Is there an ideal language for therapists to use? … I caution against blanket rules. – Curt Widhalm
Slurs are never acceptable to use during session, especially when there are cultural differences between client and therapist
Considerations related to expressing your humanity, using curse words, and the clients you see
Ethically, we have guidelines of client beneficence and avoiding maleficence, meaning don’t harm the client
Technically cursing is allowed, but only with reason and while remembering that some folks are litigious
Support The Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide on Patreon!If you love our content and would like to bring the conversations deeper, please support us on our Patreon. For as little as $2 per month we're able to bring you more content, exclusive offerings, and more opportunities to engage in our growing modern therapist community. These contributions help us to expand our offerings for continuing education events and a whole lot more. If you don't think you can make a monthly contribution – no worries – we also have a buy me a coffee profile for one time donations support us at whatever level you can today it really helps us out. You can find us at patreon.com/mtsgpodcast or buymeacoffee.com/moderntherapist. Thanks everyone.

Mar 7, 2022 • 39min
Thriving Over Surviving: Growing a Practice without Burn Out
Thriving Over Surviving: Growing a Practice without Burn OutCurt and Katie interview Megan Gunnell, LMSW, coach, and Founder and Director of Thriving Well Institute. We explore: What changes are therapists facing as they grow their practice in the telehealth age? How do therapists scale their businesses and what should they be aware of? Can a therapist and their practice thrive, or does something have to give? All of this and more in the episode.Interview with Megan Gunnell, LMSW and Founder & Director of Thriving Well InstituteMegan Gunnell LMSW, is Founder and Director of Thriving Well Institute which aids therapist in building the private practices of their dreams. Megan offers a series of courses and individual coaching to aid therapists in expanding their private practices through building group therapy programs, building online courses, creating in person retreats, and even how to build a group practice. Megan teaches therapists how to build not only their practices but themselves up. Megan has been a practicing clinician for over 20 years working as an individual therapist in addition to her coaching and advisory work. Megan started her work as a music therapist, a passion which she still carries to this day. In this podcast episode we talk about how therapists can build their practices without burning out.With the increase in telehealth therapy options, therapists are confronted with a unique problem. How does a therapist build their practice with so many therapeutic options out there, while simultaneously avoiding burn out? Curt and Katie connect with Megan Gunnell to discuss how therapists can make sure they, and their practices, thrive.How can therapists’ network as telehealth therapists?
Your potential client base has now become the whole state.
Focus on designing your online real estate and increase your SEO.
Joining local Facebook groups of therapists can help expand your referral base.
Speak to specific client issues on your website that you specialize in.
Avoid template and more generalized language in websites and marketing material.
Make your website unique but clear in what you work with.
What is scaling and how does it avoid burn out?
For many therapists, caseloads have increased dramatically over the past couple years
Scaling is more about pivoting than it is creating passive income.
Looking to expand your practice into a group practice can help alleviate referral loads.
Some therapists can avoid burn out by diversifying their workload and reintegrating natural talents such as creativity.
Getting into community, especially with other therapists, is a great way to avoid burn out.
There is still a need for single-focus private practices.
What can therapists do to scale their businesses?
Be in tune with out motivated you are to scale your business; ask how committed am I?
Consistency is key.
Have a willingness to make mistakes and take risks.
Don’t be afraid of failing; use moments of failure to motivate you.
Be open to learning new things like tech, marketing, or automation.
Be realistic of your capacity to take on learning sometimes complicated or frustrating systems that might help your business.
Don’t be afraid of showing who you are as a person as you build out your practice.
It can be scary to expand your practice, and many therapists want assurance, but there is no one way to expand – it’s individual to your unique practice.
It can take support to expand your practice; reach out to your community for help.

Feb 28, 2022 • 46min
What’s New in the DSM-5-TR? An interview with Dr. Michael B. First
What’s New in the DSM-5-TR?Curt and Katie interview Dr. Michael B. First, MD, editor and co-chair of the American Psychiatric Associations’ DSM-5 Text revision, coming out March 2022. We explore: What are the differences between a full update and a text revision? What changes have been made (and how were these changes decided)? What new diagnoses can we expect? Can clinicians continue to use the older DSM-5? How can clinicians advocate for changes in future versions of the DSM? All of this and more in the episode.Interview with Dr. Michael B. First, MDWhat changes have been made in the new DSM-5-TR?
Text revisions occur to avoid letting the text become stale while supporting ongoing updates.
New disorders, specifically Prolonged Grief Disorder, have been added.
New codes, modeled off symptom codes, created for documenting suicidality and non-suicidal self-injury with another diagnosis.
New categories of Unspecified Mood Disorder.
New Criteria set for Autism Spectrum Disorder which is more conservative.
How are cultural differences addressed in the DSM-5-TR?
Starting with DSM-IV, there has been a special committee created for culture and culture related issues
Hypothetically, the criteria sets should apply to everyone, but in the text, there is a section on Culture Related Features which is more specific.
The impact of the George Floyd protests inspired the creation of a new committee to look for systemic racism, lack of nuances, and prevalence issues within the DSM.
There are conflicting opinions if “transness” should be included in the DSM and if it’s even a mental disorder.
As the DSM is a diagnostic tool to code for insurance, the DSM takes the stance that the Gender Dysphoria diagnosis stay included so individuals can have access to medical intervention and treatment.
The Steering Committee for new diagnosis is small, but there is diversity.
Before a diagnosis is approved, it is posted for 45 days on the DSM website for all, including people with lived experience, to comment and advocate for diversity
What is the Process for Accepting New Diagnose?
The steering committee accepts proposals through the DSM portal for new diagnosis
Some diagnoses are qualified based on the United States’ continued use of ICD-10, whereas the ICD-11 is more progressive.
With Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, some of the criteria from the ICD have been incorporated into the DSM diagnosis of PTSD
Proposals are floated around often, but they often don’t have enough empirical research yet.
Proposals need to show a pool of patients who don’t fit other diagnoses, a gap in treatment, and a difference from other possible similar diagnoses.
New diagnoses will be approved on a continuum, making the electronic DSM-V-TR the most up to date resource.

Feb 21, 2022 • 40min
How Therapists Promote Diet Culture: An interview with Rachel Coleman
How Therapists Promote Diet Culture: An interview with Rachel Coleman Curt and Katie speak with Rachel Coleman, LMFT, CEDS about what therapists should consider in working with clients who have eating disorders, the impact of society on body image, and how clinicians can increase their competency in an area many feel they are lacking. Why do so many clinicians feel under trained in treating eating disorders? How do societal views impact our client’s body image and what is the impact of diet culture? Does a lack of graduate education in eating disorders ethically impact our ability to treat eat disorders in a non-specialized practice? What’s missing from our understanding of eating disorders? All of this and more in the episode. Interview with Rachel Coleman, LMFT, CEDSWhat do clinicians do when therapeutic interventions might trigger eating disorder behavior?
Many interventions call for physical activity that might trigger eating disorder behavior or feelings in clients.
If a client wants to participate in a physical activity intervention, consider their motivation.
Ensure that a client has multiple tools in their anxiety toolbox.
Be mindful if the modalities and treatment recommendations are based in fat phobia or weight stigma.
How can clinicians assess their clients for an eating disorder?
Eating disorders can present meeting full DSM-V criteria or, in many cases, seem at the “subclinical” or mildly clinical level.
Evaluate how your client feels about societal messaging and the impact it might have on them.
In assessing clients, look to determine the impact of behaviors and patterns on daily functioning. If client’s are sacrificing other values to focus on weight or body, it should be discussed.
How can clinicians increase their education in treating eating disorders?
Clinicians need to do their own work surrounding their bodies and internalized messaging.
Therapists should focus on learning about the complexities of eating disorders and the social justice movements that surround weight stigma and fat phobia.
Familiarize yourself with the ideas of body trust, body neutrality, and health at every size.
Many treatment centers offer free webinars to educate clinicians in eating disorder treatment.
What are the ethical and legal considerations in treating eating disorders in a non-specialized private practice?
Always get consultation.
Some clients might present with “subclinical” or mildly clinical levels of an eating disorder.
There is a difference between asking questions and treating the answers.
Clinicians should encourage clients to see a medical doctor when necessary.
Working with dieticians and medical doctors to create a holistic team, best serves the client.
Clinicians should be aware when to refer to a higher level of care.
Therapists should limit self-disclosures
How does Diet Culture impact our clients?
Diet culture is a mindset and system of theories we all exist in, that credits a person’s shape and size as the primary indicators of health and moral superiority.
When bodies don’t meet these “standards” of beauty as societally defined, they are often oppressed.
Messaging about dieting and our bodies is inescapable in our society, so it’s easy for subconscious beliefs about food and bodies to infiltrate sessions.
Therapists’ self-disclosures should be limited and focus on affirming client’s experience.

Feb 14, 2022 • 1h 17min
What to Know When Providing Therapy for Elite Athletes
What to Know When Providing Therapy for Elite AthletesCurt and Katie chat about the specific competence required to work with elite athletes. We explore how elite athletes present (including diagnosis) as well as what treatment looks like for elite athletes. We also talk about the training cycles and periodization, developmental stages, and identity formation for competitive athletes. We also look at what healthy training environments include and how athletes can take care of their own well-being. In this podcast episode we look at what therapists need to know about working with elite athletesFor our second continuing education worthy podcast, we wanted to support therapists in understanding what they need to know (or know that they don’t know) about working with elite athletes.The differences between being a fan and being competent to work with elite athletes
The types of competence needed to support athletes who are at an elite level
Sports psychology and other areas of specialty to support athletes
The stringent criteria to be called a sports psychologist
What diagnoses do athletes present with when they enter therapy?
Not necessarily anxiety, but it can be anxiety related or unrelated to sport
Diagnoses can be related to the sport due to body, substance, or changes in circumstances
Diagnoses can also be related to other elements of their life and transitions
What does treatment look like for elite athletes?
High school and college athletes are most likely the clients we’ll see
The integral nature of their team and who is best to be included in the treatment team
Logistics and scheduling due to games and practices, obtaining required consents
Training schedules, food information is relevant to therapeutic work
The different goals for elite athletes than for other folks who enjoy sports
Looking at in the moment frustrations versus a desire to leave the sport
Sports assessments to identify athletic coping skills
Helping athletes to make decisions for themselves and identify when it’s burnout and when it’s a mismatch
Understanding training cycles and the impact on athlete clients
Specific language that athletes may use
Periodization, micro, meso, and macro cycles in training
The importance of planned growth and rest as well as peaking at the right time
The focus of timing for everything
How injuries or changes in schedule (like with covid) can impact this timing and what that means for athletes
Developmental factors for young athletes
The focus of training for younger children as well as the investment phase for youth
Developing one’s identity as an athlete
What can positively impact and negatively impact the future commitment to sport
Other developmental factors related to being a teen interacting with these developmental elements
What a balanced life looks like for elite athletes
Who athletes spend time with, share their life with
The hobbies that complement the sport
Understanding how maintenance impacts the rest of the schedule
The factors that improve an athlete’s well-being
Myths related to the tangential benefits of being an elite athlete (i.e., I’ll get college paid for)
The importance of having a therapist who isn’t just a “fan”
The differences between team and individual sports
The competency needed related to understanding the sport to understand all of the dynamics
What good social systems around athletes have in common
The understanding of how each person in the athlete’s circle interacts with the goals
The culture created within the team and with the people around the athlete
Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka – a look at how they have been taking care of themselves
The transition out of being an elite athlete
Injury and unplanned retirement
Planning for an intentional retirement
Moving out of the athlete identity into something new

Feb 7, 2022 • 45min
Antiracist Practices in the Room: An Interview with Dr. Allen Lipscomb
Antiracist Practices in the Room: An Interview with Dr. Allen LipscombCurt and Katie speak with Dr. Allen Lipscomb, PsyD, LCSW about what therapists should consider in working with Black clients, common mistakes, and implementing anti-racist procedures into practice. What can therapists do better? Where is graduate education lacking? How do we respect and explore our Black client’s narratives? Who can work with Black clients? How can therapists help clients heal from race-based trauma?How can we do better with our Black male clients?
Black male grief shows up in different ways than other client’s grief might show up.
When assessing Black males for psychosis or conspiracy theories, ensure that you look at the context of their lived experience before determining psychosis
The traumatic experiences of racialization, trauma, and mistreatment that many Black people can sound like lead to thoughts that might sound psychotic to an uneducated clinician.
Listen to the client’s narratives. Question what the themes and patterns are and if the thought is maladaptive to their functioning and well-being.
Utilize FIDO: frequency, intensity, duration and onset in questioning clients
If a clinician is unsure if a thought is a conspiracy or legitimate threat, assess for how the client’s community is responding to the client’s narrative
Ask clients how the session was for them. How was it for you to meet with me? Acknowledge your cultural limitations and create an invitation for the client to let you know when you can do better.
Be mindful, Black male clients might be minimizing their experiences to be “less threatening.” This is the cultural congruency dichotomy that clients often have to take to avoid further potential trauma.
What does it mean to be antiracist?
Clients might be resistant to bringing up a clinician’s whiteness in the space.
Black clients might not think that a white clinician has the capability or desire to talk about race. It is the responsibility of the clinician to actively establish the openness of the space to discuss race and the client’s lived experience.
This should be a continuous conversation that is led by therapists, to make the topic open until it feels naturally open.
It’s affirming to have someone who is white in a position of power to say to me – hey I recognize we’re racially different and we could have a different experience how that shows up in this space.
You can catch moments where anti-racist action could’ve been taken or acknowledged in the next session, if missed during a session.
The need to revamp our graduate programs to be anti-oppressive and anti-racist
How to show up as an ally in the room, without centering your own experience
What is Dr. Allen Lipscomb’s BRuH Method?
The BRuH Method, or BAT, stands for BRuH Approach to Therapy.
BRuH stands for Bonding through Recognition to promote Understanding in Healing when providing therapeutic services to Black men specifically.
The approach is modeled off of other therapeutic approaches like CBT and DBT
Phases include: Bonding Phase, Recognition Phase, Understanding Phase, Healing Phase
The clinician is always doing aspects of the various phases throughout the course of treatment
This is not an evidence-based practice but an honoring based practice
The evidence of efficacy in this practice comes when you see your clients continuously returning to receive more sessions, from the feedback they give you, and the improvements in day-to-day life.
Who can work with Black male clients?
There can be an urge for white therapists to refer clients of color, especially Black men, to Black clinicians
These referrals are unnecessary. A therapist of any background, if holding the space correctly and connecting with the client’s felt experience, can work with a client of color, specifically Black men.
It’s important to be mindful that questions asked to clients are not investigative or for the purpose of educating the therapist.

Jan 31, 2022 • 1h 6min
What Can Therapists Say About Celebrities? The ethics of public statements
What Can Therapists Say About Celebrities? The ethics of public statementsCurt and Katie chat about whether therapists should make public statements and diagnose public figures. This is our first continuing education eligible podcast, discussing the ethics of speaking out about the mental health of people in the public eye. We explore the origins of the Goldwater rule, a group of psychiatrists who purposefully broke it, and how masters level organizations address this concern. We also provide you with some ideas about how you can make this decision for yourself.In this podcast episode we look at the ethics of modern therapists diagnosing public figuresFor our first continuing education worthy podcast, we wanted to address something that is becoming more and more prevalent in our field: therapists speaking out about the mental health of public figures.What is the Goldwater Rule?
The history of the Goldwater Rule
The impact of DSM II (and the update to DSM III)
The original intention of the rule versus the current interpretation of the Goldwater Rule
Fears from the American Psychiatric Association that seems to have driven the development of (and on-going commitment to) this rule
How the Goldwater Rule (and Similar Ethical Principles) Have Shifted Over Time
Perspective from one of the original framers of the Goldwater Rule
Moving from teleological to deontological interpretations
How the internet and social media has changed the landscape
The American Psychiatric Association expanding their commitment to the Goldwater Rule, stating reasons psychiatrists should not assess
The Goldwater “Caveat” or “Principle” versus Goldwater “Rule” or even Goldwater “Doctrine”
Beyond diagnosis to restricting any comment on the behavior or mental health of a public figure
The stance on this ethic from American Psychological Association and the large Masters Level Organizations (AAMFT, ACA, NASW, and CAMFT, for example)
The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump – the Public Diagnosis of an American President
The group of psychiatrists who pushed back on the Goldwater Rule
The Duty to Warn – does it apply here?
What are the challenges of accurately diagnosing Trump?
Where expertise is helpful (and how the public can water down diagnosis)
Current Guidelines for Modern Therapists
Whether diagnosis is required for a duty to warn
The tactic of putting forward information without drawing conclusions (and why we don’t like this strategy)
Specific guidance from the professional organizations on what therapists can and cannot do
Taking special care in how one decides what they say about an individual in public settings
Using one’s professional judgement and special care
Cautions When Using Your Professional Judgment
The potential harm of discussing diagnosis on social media
Bias, cultural factors, and other information that could make an inaccurate or harmful diagnosis
Mental health stigma and other concerns related to diagnostic language (ICD-10, DSM-V)
Speaking outside of your professional expertise
Questions to ask yourself before making a public statement