Agency Bytes

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off! Featuring: Drew McLellan, AMI In episode 135, I sit down with Drew McLellan, CEO of Agency Management Institute and host of the Build a Better Agency podcast. Drew’s been in the business for over 30 years and has coached thousands of agencies on how to grow profitably, attract better clients, and actually enjoy the perks of ownership. In this conversation, we unpack what the real job of an agency owner is — and how easy it is to get lost in the weeds doing everyone else’s. Drew shares how founders can move from day-to-day chaos to the higher-level work of vision, leadership, and building a pipeline that doesn’t depend on them. We also talk about the mental shift from “founder hustle” to “CEO clarity,” and what it really means to build an agency that serves your life, not the other way around. Key Bytes • The three things only the owner can and should do • Why your agency’s profit tells the truth about your leadership • Building a self-sustaining pipeline that runs without you • How to structure your week around the owner’s actual job • The difference between running an agency and owning a business • What makes an agency truly “sellable” • Common traps that keep founders stuck in the weeds • How to get your time back without losing control Chapters 00:00 Welcome and Drew’s background 04:12 The evolution from founder to true agency owner 09:45 What the “owner’s actual job” really is 14:58 Why agency profit is a mirror of leadership 20:17 Building systems and pipelines that aren’t you 26:04 The importance of clarity and delegation 31:42 Common mistakes that limit scalability 38:27 How to build an agency that can thrive without you 44:10 Preparing for eventual sale or succession 49:22 Drew’s advice for new and seasoned agency owners Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group, in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency. He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also co-owns/runs with his wife Danyel. AMI serves thousands of small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media, and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in such a volatile business, and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership. AMI is the only agency network that is run by an active agency owner. It offers: Public workshops for agency owners, leaders and account service staff Owner peer networks (like a Vistage group or 4A’s forums) Private coaching/consulting for agency owners Annual primary research with CMOs and client decision makers about their work with agencies The highly praised podcast Build A Better Agency The only conference built for small to mid-sized agencies – the Build A Better Agency Summit Drew often appears in publications like Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, AdAge, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read.” He’s also written several books, the most recent being Sell with Authority (January 2020). The latest book has garnered rave reviews and has been the guidebook for agency growth and business development in today’s world. Drew also speaks at leading agency and marketing conferences like Inbound, Content Marketing World, and MAICON and is often cited in agency-centric content for his expertise in the industry. When he’s not hanging out with clients or agency owners and their staff, Drew spends time with his wife, their blended family, and following his beloved Dodgers. Learn more about Drew and AMI on their website.

Featuring: Jen Moss, JAR In episode 134, I sit down with Jen Moss, Chief Creative Officer and co-founder of JAR, where she helps brands and agencies craft podcasts that move people—not just metrics. Jen calls herself a podcasting doula, guiding clients through the messy middle of creative storytelling. In this conversation, we dive into how to create audio that actually connects, what makes a podcast worth listening to, and why “Job, Audience, Result” is the framework every agency should adopt before hitting record. Jen and I explore why most branded podcasts fizzle, how to define success beyond downloads, and the difference between authenticity and algorithm-chasing. If you’ve ever thought about starting a podcast for your agency—or making your current one work harder—this episode’s for you. Key Bytes • The JAR method: Job, Audience, Result—a simple framework for podcast strategy. • Why authenticity and storytelling beat reach every time. • How agencies can use podcasts as pillar content that drives real relationships. • Common landmines when launching an agency podcast. • Why generosity and curiosity build audience trust. • The most meaningful metrics: engagement, consumption rate, and return listeners. • When to use internal vs. external hosts—and why it depends. • The role of creative courage in a crowded podcast space. • Why “connection” should always be your North Star. Chapters 00:00 Intro – Meet Jen Moss, podcasting doula and CCO of JAR 02:00 From theater to radio: Jen’s storytelling roots 06:00 The JAR framework explained: Job, Audience, Result 09:30 The real “why” behind launching a podcast 12:30 How agencies can use podcasts as strategic marketing tools 16:30 Internal vs. external hosts: what actually works 19:45 Common landmines and why most podcasts fizzle 22:00 Authenticity, generosity, and giving value away 24:30 Is podcasting too saturated? Finding signal in the noise 27:45 Connection over clicks—how to stand out 31:00 The metrics that matter: consumption, return, and reach trends 33:50 Rapid Fire with Jen Moss: storytelling, creative courage, and dream guests In her role as Chief Creative Officer of JAR, Co-Founder Jen Moss loves bringing stories to life. With her clients, Jen acts as a “podcasting Doula,” helping them harness their strengths in service of great storytelling. Deeply steeped in the creative process, Jen is unafraid of its ambiguities, and enjoys guiding others through its twists and turns. Drawing on her strong background in theatre, arts journalism, audio documentary, and new media storytelling, Jen helps clients tell the authentic stories that matter to them, and to their audience. She spent many years working as a producer and award-winning content creator for CBC Radio, and as an interactive story producer for The National Film Board of Canada’s Digital Studio, which taught her to think of stories as living things, full of potential for impact. It also taught her to take an “audience first” approach. Jen is never afraid of surfacing big ideas, but understands that sometimes, it’s the little things – the specific lens that “only you” can bring – that will gain the most traction with an audience. Jen loves to look for “fresh tracks” in the form of stories that haven’t been told before. She encourages her clients and her team at JAR to try out new ideas, learn from what the audience data reveals, and let that inform future creative strategy. Finally, Jen keeps her own professional learning curve alive as she lectures part-time at the University of British Columbia’s School of Creative Writing, interacting with the next generation of writers, podcasters, new media producers, and audiences. Contact Jen on their website or on LinkedIn.   THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off!

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGH25 to save 50% off! Featuring: Kirstin Russ, Practical Edge AI In episode 133, I dive into the real-world path of AI adoption for agencies with guest Kirstin Russ, founder of Principal Edge AI and Mountains to Sea Media. We unpack the four “zones” of adoption (from denial to productized services), why most AI projects fail without structure and change management, and how to turn internal automations into billable client solutions. We also hit on junior-talent pipelines in an AI world, the risk of “robot-trained-by-robots” content, pricing when you’re still learning, and the discovery discipline required to make automations actually stick. Key Bytes • The winning agencies move from “dabbling in automations” to selling AI-powered solutions that solve specific client problems. • 95% of AI projects fail because of missing structure, messy data, and zero change management — fix those first. • AI should elevate people to higher-value work; train juniors to work with AI, not to be replaced by it. • Don’t chase every shiny tool; build repeatable agent patterns and a stable stack you trust. • Discovery is everything: a “15-step” flow usually hides 30 more steps — price and scope accordingly. • Monetization starts with ops pain: map ugly manual workflows, then automate the “swivel-chair” steps. • Thought leadership beats generic AI copy: capture founder audio, codify brand voice + ICPs, then assist with AI. • Profit vs. quality is a real tension — set guardrails so efficiency never erodes outcomes. Chapters 00:00 Intro & Kirstin’s two businesses 00:57 Why an outsource-first agency model 03:07 Year of deep AI study and first tools “in the wild” 04:43 The four zones of agency AI adoption 06:14 From “getting ahead” to “survive”: disruption hits marketing 09:01 Why AI projects fail: structure, data, and change management 11:00 Practical internal automations (transcripts → CRM, follow-ups, etc.) 12:58 Junior talent in an AI era & the content quality dilemma 15:18 Building an AI content assist system (voice, ICP, research) 18:48 Tool sprawl vs. foundations; avoiding shiny-object traps 20:40 Can clients DIY? Positioning & selling AI services 21:08 Case studies: Square inventory workflow & quote tool 24:38 Pricing while you’re learning; managing expectations 27:18 Aha moments: you can’t do it all; systemize & delegate 29:14 Theme songs, imposter syndrome, and wrap up Kirstin Russ is a seasoned business strategist with 30 years of cross-industry experience who brings a unique dual approach to business growth. As the founder of Practical Edge AI, she helps businesses leverage artificial intelligence to automate growth, reduce manual workload, and improve profitability—often delivering measurable results within the first week. Simultaneously, as the driving force behind Mountains to Sea Media, a Western North Carolina-based digital marketing agency, Kirstin helps businesses amplify their online presence through strategic internet marketing, data analytics, and performance-focused web design. Kirstin's superpower lies in her holistic approach to business analysis, understanding how systems interconnect and where AI can enhance traditional & digital marketing strategies. By combining cutting-edge AI solutions with proven digital marketing expertise, she creates integrated growth pathways that optimize both operations and customer acquisition. With an approachable style and commitment to practical results, Kirstin transforms business challenges into opportunities. Her guiding question remains: "If you could wave a magic wand and change anything about your business, what would it be?" Contact Kirstin on the Practical Edge AI website or LinkedIn, Mountains to Sea Media website or LinkedIn.   THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION. START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off!

Featuring: Leah Leaves, Alderaan Operations Solutions In episode 132, I talk with Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, Leah and her team embed expert operations managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision. We dig into what causes owners to become the bottleneck, the difference between goals, systems, and team accountability, and how every agency—no matter the size—can start building a foundation that prevents burnout and supports growth. Leah also shares how to identify when it’s time to bring in an operator, how to delegate effectively, and why even the best creative agencies need structure to thrive. We wrap by exploring how AI fits into internal operations and why every agency needs an AI Ops roadmap, even if it’s just six months ahead. Key Bytes • Burnout often begins with unclear goals and missing systems; clarity is the antidote. • Leah outlines four agency owner archetypes—the Trusting Optimist, Firefighting Founder, Reluctant Gatekeeper, and Visionary Leader—and how operators help each evolve. • Delegation isn’t dumping tasks; it’s empowering your team with context and ownership. • Documenting the “why” behind your systems drives consistency and accountability. • Operators create the scaffolding for scale—allowing founders to focus on vision, not firefighting. • Every agency, regardless of size, benefits from an AI Ops roadmap to guide internal efficiency. • Start with what you already have—processes, checklists, or recurring workflows—and build from there. • Systems don’t kill creativity; they protect it by removing chaos and decision fatigue. Chapters 00:00 Intro and welcome with guest Leah Leaves, founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions 02:00 The Star Wars origin of “Alderaan” and Leah’s path from journalism to operations 05:30 From creative to systems thinker: finding flow in operations 08:00 How unclear goals and missing systems cause bottlenecks 10:00 Guardrails vs. micromanagement: empowering the team without overengineering 13:00 The burnout cycle and why delegation is a creative act 15:00 The four types of agency owners and their operational challenges 20:00 Shifting from bottleneck to visionary: the operator’s role in scaling 23:30 Why every agency needs an AI ops roadmap 26:30 Putting “robots” in the org chart and making automation work 29:00 Low-hanging AI wins: onboarding, recruiting, and workflow automation 32:00 Rapid-fire Q&A: distilling systems, theme songs, and unexpected client wins 34:45 Closing thoughts and where to find Leah Leah Leaves is the Founder of Alderaan Operations Solutions, where she helps remote digital marketing agencies grow without the grind. Known for her no-fluff, systems-first approach, she and her team embed expert Operations Managers directly into agencies to break bottlenecks, reduce burnout, and build businesses that can scale without the founder in every decision. Contact Leah on LinkedIn, on the Alderaan website, or take their Agency Owner Quiz.

THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY IGNITION START YOUR FREE 14 DAY TRIAL ignitionapp.info/agencybytes-trial Use Code OUTSIGHT25 to save 50% off!   Featuring: Maiya Holliday, Mangrove In episode 131, I sit down with Maiya Holliday, founder and CEO of Mangrove Web Development, a Certified B Corp agency that’s been building websites for change-makers since 2009. Maiya shares her evolution from self-taught coder to agency leader, how she built Mangrove into a values-driven, fully remote team long before it was trendy, and why B Corp certification serves as an operating system rather than a marketing badge. We dive into the realities of serving nonprofits and purpose-led organizations, how to balance mission and margin, and how AI is reshaping collaboration between designers and developers. Maiya’s insights are both grounding and inspiring for anyone building a business around impact and intention. Key Bytes • B Corp certification can provide structure for how an agency operates—not just a label to display. • Nonprofit clients aren’t “low budget” if you help them tie digital to their mission, revenue, and reach. • AI is changing agency workflows fast, but curiosity, ethics, and experimentation keep it human. • Merging two purpose-driven teams isn’t about scale—it’s about shared values and vision. • Mangrove’s evolution shows that you can stay small, focused, and deeply impactful. Chapters 00:00 Intro: From coder to CEO 01:00 The origin story of Mangrove Web 03:30 Becoming a Certified B Corp 06:00 Lessons from the certification process 09:00 Staying accountable to B Corp principles 11:00 How competition has evolved in the B Corp space 14:30 Why Mangrove focuses on nonprofits & foundations 17:30 Pricing and positioning in the nonprofit world 20:00 The role of AI in Mangrove’s workflow 23:00 How design and dev are converging 27:30 Internal AI tooling vs. client-facing tools 30:00 Building trust as a strategic digital advisor 32:20 Rapid fire: remote work, creative parenting, and common myths 34:50 Closing thoughts Resources Mentioned https://www.ai4np.org/ Maiya Holliday, CEO and Founder of Mangrove Web Development, is a creative leader and collaborator who crafts digital solutions to augment the impact of changemakers. She is a self-taught coder with over a decade of hands-on experience. Maiya aligns folks toward actionable goals that help articulate and communicate their organization’s purpose and impact on the web, with people, planet, purpose, and equity at the core. She has led over 200 website projects for changemakers and purpose-driven organizations. Maiya led Mangrove to become a Certified B Corp in 2016 and has since championed the cause of socially and environmentally conscious businesses, deepening their impact. She values working alongside a diverse team of talented people who are passionate about what they do. A Bay Area native, Maiya now lives in the mountains of Truckee, CA, with her husband Shaun and little humans Terner and Miles. You might also find her in Oakland or Australia, where she tends to show up on a regular basis. Contact Maiya on LinkedIn, the company's LinkedIn page, or their website.

Featuring: Peter Lang, Digital Agency Business In episode 130, I sit down with Peter Lang—co-founder of Digital Agency Business and AVA, and longtime agency acquirer—to unpack how agency owners can use M&A as a growth superpower. Peter shares the seven-day deal that doubled his agency’s revenue, the due-diligence signals that actually matter (talent, client stickiness, and contracts), why most M&A fails on culture not math, and how AI is reshaping hiring and service models. We also get into founder identity after the sale, what “professional maturity” looks like, and why many owners are really capital allocators in the making. Key Bytes • M&A can compress years of organic growth into months—if you underwrite people, clients, and terms before the numbers. • Culture fit and integration planning beat fancy spreadsheets; most failed deals are value misalignment, not valuation. • AI is wiping out entry-level tasks first; the winners redeploy A-players and teach clients how to use AI, not hide from it. • Founder-led sales can’t be the only engine; build repeatable sales capacity that survives distractions. • You already “work for” whoever pays you—selling changes the customer, not your agency DNA. • Treat time like capital: budget it, forecast it, and review it like an effective executive. Chapters 00:00 Cold open, quick re-intro 01:08 The seven-day deal that doubled revenue 03:32 Doing three deals in 90 days during COVID 06:36 Common seller misconceptions and Peter’s deal lens 09:19 Endurance mindset, calendars, and operating like an athlete 13:46 What buyers actually look for beyond the numbers 17:43 AI’s impact on talent, delivery, and survival to 2027 22:10 Life after the sale and “professional maturity” 24:51 Rapid fire: celebrating wins, the race that changed him, dream acquisition 27:45 Where to learn more (digitalagencybusiness.com) Resources Mentioned • Effective Executive by Peter Drucker (time tracking and retrospective) • GrowthHackers community (context on Peter’s portfolio) • digitalagencybusiness.com (Peter’s M&A training and upcoming book) Peter Lang is an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with over 15 years of experience building, buying, and selling companies across online publishing, media, advertising, e-commerce, and consulting. He’s the co-founder and Chief M&A Officer at AVA, a fast-growing digital agency holding company acquiring businesses in the $1–10 million range. Peter also runs Digital Agency Business (DAB), an e-learning company that trains entrepreneurs to launch and scale their own agencies. A former CEO of Uhuru Network and advisor to multiple companies, Peter’s passion lies in using mergers and acquisitions to accelerate growth. An endurance athlete and family man, he lives by the belief that anything is achievable with hard work. Contact Peter on LinkedIn or his website.

Featuring: Natasha Golinsky, On Purpose Projects In episode 129, I talk with Natasha Golinski, founder of On Purpose Projects, a custom web and e-commerce dev agency. Natasha is a three-time Canada Women of Influence nominee, a mom of three, and a breast cancer survivor—and she’s built her business around the belief that mindset is everything. We dig into how she went from “accidental agency owner” to leading a zero-meeting, all-contractor team for over a decade, and why journaling, EFT (tapping), and surrounding yourself with the right people are critical to surviving the entrepreneurial rollercoaster. Natasha also shares how a cancer diagnosis forced her to hire ops support—and ultimately led to one of her agency’s biggest months ever. This episode is a masterclass in grit, leadership, and the mental game of entrepreneurship. Key Bytes • Mindset is the job. Natasha starts most days with journaling and EFT to reset anxiety and focus. • Zero meetings, high loyalty. A culture of respect, gratitude, and no drama keeps her contractor team thriving. • Protect your people. Leadership means absorbing the stress and passing the praise. • Say no early. Guardrails in discovery protect the team from toxic clients. • Crisis as catalyst. Cancer forced Natasha to let go of ops—and it unlocked growth. • Community matters. No one is self-made—surround yourself with peers who lift you up. • Focus sharpens delivery. On Purpose Projects does dev only—like a food truck that just serves crepes. Chapters 00:00 Welcome & Natasha’s background 02:12 Accidental agency beginnings 04:45 Mindset, marketing, and money: her founder lane 07:30 Morning pages & EFT as daily reset tools 11:05 Cancer diagnosis, hiring ops, and a breakthrough month 15:20 Building loyalty in a zero-meeting contractor culture 20:22 Client red flags & protecting your team 23:50 Why no one is self-made: the role of community 26:30 Rapid-fire fun: karaoke, first impressions, food truck metaphor 28:55 Closing thoughts Natasha Golinsky is the founder of an award-winning web development and ecommerce agency, a three-time nominee for the Canada Women of Influence® Award, and a tireless champion of female agency owners. Natasha’s also a mom of three and a breast cancer survivor who brings grit, heart, and a deep sense of purpose to everything she does. I’m thrilled to dig into her journey, her mission, and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Natasha, welcome to the show. Award-winning web development & ecommerce agency founder | Champion & connector of female agency owners | 3x nominee Canada Women of Influence® Award | Breast Cancer Butt-Kicker | Mom x 3 Contact Natasha on their website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Logan Lyles, DemandShift In episode 128, I sit down with Logan Lyles, founder of DemandShift and longtime B2B sales and marketing pro. Logan’s career has spanned brand side, agency side, and now his own consultancy—giving him a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow pipeline. We unpack his journey from scaling Sweet Fish Media to Inc. 5000 status, building the Agency Life series at Teamwork, and leading growth at Business Builders. Most importantly, Logan shares how he turned disappointing webinar results into a repeatable framework that consistently converts registrations into booked sales calls. If you’ve ever run a webinar that felt like a win… until the dreaded “conversion cliff,” this episode gives you the practical, step-by-step fixes to turn those views into revenue. Key Bytes • Logan explains how most agencies fall into the “conversion cliff” trap—lots of registrants, little pipeline—and the two-part fix that changed everything. • He shares the importance of packaging your expertise into a clear framework that creates a natural next step. • We break down his two-step registration process that boosted webinar conversions by 5–10x. • We compare free vs. paid events, what impacts show-up rates, and which strategy works best for agencies.| • We talk about how webinars double as content engines for thought leadership and trust building. • Logan shares why solopreneurs and 20-person agencies alike can adapt this strategy with the right tech stack. • He opens up about lessons learned in sales—why not every “yes” is worth chasing. Chapters 00:02 Intro to Logan Lyles and Demand Shift 01:14 Logan’s meandering career path from journalism to sales to agency life 03:09 Lessons from scaling Sweet Fish Media and leading growth at Business Builders 06:44 Why referrals aren’t enough for agencies anymore 07:28 The “conversion cliff” of webinars and how Logan fixed it 09:48 The two-step registration process that boosted conversions 5–10x 12:59 Free vs. paid webinars: show rates, signups, and strategy 15:57 Webinars as thought-leadership engines and content machines 19:11 Blending demand gen with brand building for faster sales cycles 23:02 Rethinking webinars: live podcasts, polls, and engagement tactics 27:08 Sales lessons: why not every yes is worth chasing 27:50 Wrap-up and where to find Logan (demandshift.co) Logan Lyles has spent 17 years in B2B sales & marketing, drawing on his journalism background & working both agency- and brand-side in various roles. He has helped multiple agencies scale, including helping lead Sweet Fish Media onto the Inc 5,000 List 2 years in a row & increasing Business Builders monthly email list growth by 580% in 2024. Logan is the founder of DemandShift, a webinar-as-a-service agency, the co-host of the weekly podcast: The Marketing Max Show & a LinkedIn Top Voice. Contact Logan on his website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Kelly Schuknecht, Two Mile High Marketing In episode 127, I talk with Kelly Schuknecht, founder of Two Mile High Marketing and host of the Beyond the Best Seller podcast. Kelly shares her journey from being laid off to launching her agency, how she quickly built a team, and why she’s focused on helping agency owners and CEOs grow through thought leadership platforms. We dig into what I call The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan—a repeatable system of podcasts, stages, and LinkedIn that helps agencies build authority, stay top-of-mind, and consistently attract clients. Key Bytes • The Agency Owner’s Visibility Plan comes down to visibility, credibility, and consistency. • Trusting yourself to leap without a safety net accelerates growth. • Niching disqualifies the wrong buyers while pulling in the right ones. • Visibility means showing up where your audience already is. • Credibility is built in a snap judgment—package your proof. • Consistency matters more than volume—set a realistic cadence. • Every podcast interview can fuel a month’s worth of content. • Delegating early unlocks owner time for actual growth work. • In-person events still beat virtual for relationship building. Chapters 00:00 Introducing Kelly and the story behind “Two Mile High” 03:30 From acquisition layoff to launching an agency 06:45 Why she pivoted away from “fractional CMO” 09:55 The challenge and power of niching down 13:50 Hiring early and delegating with trust 16:20 The Visibility–Credibility–Consistency framework 19:55 A realistic cadence for LinkedIn, podcasts, and speaking 24:10 In-person vs. virtual events and AI’s limitations 26:45 Rapid Fire: superpowers, lessons learned, and marketing myths Kelly Schuknecht is the founder of Two Mile High Marketing, where she partners with agency owners and business leaders to build powerful thought leadership platforms. With over 15 years of marketing experience and a track record of elevating brands from behind the scenes, Kelly now helps experts step into the spotlight through strategic content, visibility tactics, and authentic personal branding. She’s the host of Beyond the Bestseller, a podcast featuring women who use their stories to lead. Connect with Kelly on their company website, personal website, or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Meeky Hwang, Ndevr In episode 126, I sit down with Meeky Hwang, CEO and partner at Endeavor, a WordPress development agency powering digital platforms for major media and enterprise brands like Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony. With over two decades of experience in development and DevOps, Meeky has built Endeavor into a trusted name in the WordPress ecosystem while also paving the way as a female leader in tech. We talk about her accidental journey into agency ownership, what it’s like leading in an industry where women are still underrepresented, and how Endeavor built its three-pillar framework for resilient platforms. Meeky shares candid insights on navigating partnerships, the challenges of “over-engineering” with headless CMS, and the importance of masterminds and community for entrepreneurs. Key Bytes • Meeky shares how an “accidental” freelance project led to a decade-long partnership and agency. • She discusses the importance of having clear role delineation with her co-founder to avoid missteps. • Endeavor’s three-pillar framework (audience experience, editorial experience, developer experience) keeps their platforms resilient. • She explains why many publishers are moving away from over-engineered headless CMS solutions back to WordPress. • As a female leader in tech, she reflects on mentorship, representation, and inspiring others by simply “being the first.” • She stresses the value of mastermind groups for growth and support, something she wishes she’d pursued earlier. • Endeavor is exploring AI to streamline workflows and even testing new content tools for clients. • Her advice for organizations: implement proper version control and CI/CD to avoid preventable tech mistakes. Chapters 00:00 Welcome and introduction to Meeky Hwang 03:00 Becoming an “accidental” agency founder 07:00 Women in tech and leadership representation 11:00 Why Endeavor niched into WordPress and media 12:30 The three-pillar framework for resilient platforms 15:00 Headless CMS pitfalls and returning to WordPress 18:00 Navigating co-founder roles and partnerships 23:00 AI, internal tools, and what’s next for Endeavor 25:00 The power of masterminds for entrepreneurs 27:00 Rapid fire: karaoke, hobbies, and tech stack fixes Meeky Hwang is the CEO & Partner at Ndevr, a WordPress development agency trusted by leading digital media and enterprise companies. With 20+ years of experience in web development, open-source technology, and DevOps, she specializes in optimizing complex digital ecosystems, streamlining editorial workflows, and aligning technology with business goals. Meeky has helped major brands like PMC, Hearst, Bloomberg, Forbes, and Sony build scalable, high-performing digital platforms. A champion for women in tech, she is passionate about fostering opportunities for the next generation of leaders. Contact Meeky on their website.