Agency Bytes

Featuring: Shawn Johnston, Forge and Smith In episode 121, I sit down with Shawn Johnston, founder of Forge and Smith and creator of Refoundry—a low-code WordPress platform that’s transforming how agencies build and deliver websites. We talk about how Shawn cut delivery time by 70%, turned profit margins around using the Profit First method, and transitioned his agency toward a scalable, productized model. He shares insights on navigating developer pushback, balancing client empowerment with agency control, and preparing for evolving tech shifts like AI in web development. Whether you’re struggling with project bottlenecks, shrinking budgets, or scaling challenges, Shawn’s story offers a clear path forward for building smarter, more profitable systems. Key Bytes • Refoundry cut Forge and Smith’s development time by 70%, transforming profitability. • Adopting Profit First changed their approach to pricing and overhead limits. • Client empowerment through low-code builds loyalty and drives referrals. • Transitioning leadership allowed Shawn’s team to grow into bigger roles. • Technological shifts (like Webflow and AI) demand constant agency adaptation. • Productizing an internal tool opened new revenue streams beyond services. • Balancing developer pride with client needs is critical for successful adoption. • Early lessons in print taught Shawn to anticipate and embrace industry change. Chapters 00:01 Introduction to Shawn Johnston and Forge and Smith 02:11 Moving from freelance to full agency and early challenges 04:39 Implementing Profit First and shifting to scalable systems 06:38 Why Refoundry: Bringing low-code to WordPress 08:22 Cutting development time and improving project profitability 11:23 Developer pushback and prioritizing client empowerment 14:44 Evolving Refoundry into a product for other agencies 17:03 Transitioning leadership and building team collaboration 24:17 Preparing for tech shifts like AI and staying nimble in delivery 28:30 Rapid fire questions and final reflections Shawn Johnston is the founder of Forge and Smith, a digital agency that’s launched over 500 websites in the past 13 years. After hitting the usual delivery bottlenecks and burnout cycles, he built Refoundry—a low-code platform for WordPress that helped his team cut build times by 70% and scale without sacrificing quality. Now he’s on a mission to help other agencies streamline delivery, boost margins, and build systems that actually work. Contact Shawn on Forge and Smith or Refoundry.

Featuring: Greg Bellinger, White Rabbit In episode 120, I sit down with Greg Bellinger, co-founder and CEO of White Rabbit, a web and mobile development agency with nearly 100 in-house employees spread across Colombia, India, and the U.S. Greg shares his journey from frontend developer to visionary CEO and breaks down how White Rabbit scaled by staying focused on one niche—supporting other agencies. We explore why White Rabbit only hires full-time employees, how niching into agency delivery gave them a competitive edge, and the strategic thinking behind launching their own internal project financial software. Greg also talks about his passion for creation, not just in code but in culture, leadership, and future products. This one’s full of takeaways for agency owners looking to scale with purpose. Key Bytes • Greg shares why they only hire full-time employees and the cultural benefits that come with it • He explains how niching into working with agencies helped them scale more efficiently • Greg reflects on stepping away from product management and letting his leadership team shine • He talks about the challenges of managing across three countries and how they keep their culture unified • Greg reveals details about their custom-built project management and financial tool • He offers insight into people management, tough conversations, and protecting your energy • He shares his personal philosophy of “create,” from coding to building culture • Greg discusses what entrepreneurship means to him and how it’s been part of his DNA from the start Chapters 00:00 Welcome and guest intro 01:00 The origin of White Rabbit and its full-time hiring philosophy 02:30 Transitioning out of coding and project management 06:00 Working exclusively with agencies vs. going direct 07:15 Niching and its impact on growth and clarity 10:00 Scaling globally: why Colombia, India, and the U.S. 12:00 Uniting culture across three countries 14:00 Vision for the future: stepping back, launching products 16:30 Building internal software for project and financial management 19:00 Lessons in people management and entrepreneurship 25:00 Rapid fire: guilty pleasures, two-word advice, and dream hire Greg Bellinger is the Co-Founder and CEO of White Rabbit Group, a web and mobile development agency with a fully in-house team of nearly 100 employees across three countries. His passion for technology began in childhood, leading him to hand-code his first websites in 2008. In 2016, he co-founded White Rabbit Group, building it into a trusted development partner for world-class agencies and creatives. Under his leadership, the company has earned a reputation for delivering high-quality digital solutions while fostering a close culture of technical experts. Contact Greg on the White Rabbit website or on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Jessica Malnik In episode 119, I sit down with Jessica Malnik, a B2B messaging strategist who’s helped over 75 founders and lean marketing teams craft content that actually gets read—and drives results. We talk about the risks of over-commoditized content in the age of AI and why a flood of “cheap” output isn’t a strategy. Jessica walks me through her signature framework, the Marketing MOAT, which focuses on Messaging, Distribution, and Content Efficiency. She also shares practical, low-lift ways agencies can build content machines, maximize existing assets, and stay consistent without burning out. We even talk about content imposter syndrome, the curse of knowledge, and why you don’t have to be totally unique—you just need to show up as yourself. If you’ve ever struggled with creating content that converts (and keeps converting), this episode is packed with clarity, systems, and smart takes that’ll help you raise your signal-to-noise ratio. Key Bytes • Messaging without a unique perspective leads to content that gets ignored • AI-only content creation can dilute your brand and commoditize your services • Her “Marketing MOAT” framework focuses on messaging, distribution, and content efficiency • Distribution must be built into strategy from the beginning, not as an afterthought • Agencies should reuse and repurpose evergreen content instead of always creating new • Consistency (3x/week on LinkedIn) matters more than frequency spikes • Authenticity in content doesn’t mean oversharing—it means resonance • Set goals based on team size, budget, and business stage, then reverse engineer your strategy Chapters 00:01 Welcome and intro to Jessica Malnik 01:46 Common agency messaging mistakes 03:26 Why AI-only content is risky for agencies 05:14 Jessica’s Marketing MOAT framework explained 07:21 How to develop “spiky” messaging and content positioning 10:34 Distribution strategy: where your audience actually is 14:04 Own your content—don’t rely only on social algorithms 15:09 Content efficiency and repurposing systems 19:00 Best practices for publishing frequency 21:16 Balancing personal and professional content 22:28 Reverse engineering content strategy based on goals 23:41 Rapid Fire Q&A with Jessica Jessica Malnik has helped over 75 B2B founders and lean marketing teams fix their positioning and craft messaging people actually read and respond to. She’s spoken at half a dozen in-person conferences in the U.S., Australia, and Thailand, as well as dozens of virtual webinars, workshops, and podcast guest appearances. She’s also been featured in WSJ, The Next Web, MicroConf, Wynter, SXSW, and MSN UK, among many others. Contact Jessica on their website or join their newsletter.

Featuring: Jamie Brindle In episode 118, I’m joined by Jamie Brindle—a freelancer, strategist, and creator who’s built a half-million-strong audience around helping creative solopreneurs build sustainable, scalable freelance businesses. In this conversation, Jamie breaks down what it means to be an “Entrelancer”—a hybrid of entrepreneur and freelancer—and why the traditional view of freelancing is overdue for a reboot. We talk about why having an audience builds instant trust, how freelancers can evolve into business owners without employees, and the myths around websites and portfolios that keep too many creatives stuck in planning mode instead of taking action. Jamie also shares a powerful framework for moving strangers into long-term client relationships—and why every freelancer should be thinking like a strategist, not just a task-taker. Whether you’re freelancing, running an agency, or somewhere in between, this one’s packed with fresh thinking. Key Bytes • Jamie shares the origin of the term “Entrelancer”—and how it reflects a more modern, business-minded freelancer. • He explains how their TikTok content (originally not for clients) unexpectedly opened doors to Fortune 100 opportunities. • We dig into the importance of digital products, productized services, and building systems to support time freedom. • Jamie outlines the four stages of the customer journey: Stranger → Lead → Client → Client for Life. • He gives a masterclass in how to manufacture delight, over-deliver, and secure repeat work. • We challenge the sacred cows of freelancer websites and portfolios—and why Jamie believes they’re massive time-wasters. • Sales anxiety? Jamie offers a grounded, simple mindset shift that removes pressure and focuses on being helpful. • He explains how positioning yourself as a solution—not a task-taker—is the unlock to charging more and building authority. Chapters 00:00 Welcome and Intro to Jamie Brindle 01:00 The accidental power of TikTok and building trust 04:30 Redefining success as a freelancer 07:00 “Entrelancer” vs. freelancer: What’s the difference? 11:40 Scaling without employees: Productized and digital offers 13:00 Pivoting from video work to social media consulting 15:25 Lessons from shifting services and getting back in the field 19:30 Jamie’s four stages of the customer journey 24:00 Reframing sales: It’s just solving a problem 28:00 Positioning yourself as a strategic partner 34:00 Why portfolios and websites are the biggest time wasters 37:00 Final thoughts and closing Jamie Brindle is a freelancer who gives advice to over half a million other creatives on social media about building a scalable and sustainable freelance business. Contact Jamie on their website or @thejamiebrindle on all socials.

Featuring: Wanda Allen, Follow Up Sales In episode 117, I sit down with Wanda Allen, international speaker, coach, and author of Follow Up Sales Strategies. With 25 years in the corporate world and a background in business banking, Wanda developed a systemized approach to sales follow-up that now helps business owners and sales professionals increase their close rates. We dive into the psychology behind why so many people avoid follow-up, the fears that hold them back (hint: it’s not really about time), and how a simple shift in mindset and process can transform your sales pipeline. Wanda shares data-backed insights, actionable tips for improving follow-up cadence, and even debunks myths about being “pushy.” Whether you’re in active outreach or avoiding the phone like the plague, this episode will motivate you to reframe your follow-up game—and pick up the phone with purpose. We also talk about her book-writing journey, the importance of believing in the value you bring, and a bucket-list dream that has her heading south of the border. Key Bytes • 98% of sales don’t happen on the first contact—follow-up is essential. • Fear of being “pushy” and fear of rejection are the top two mindset blocks around follow-up. • 80% of sales happen between the 5th and 12th contact—most people quit after 2. • Follow-up is a form of service, not pressure—it shows interest and professionalism. • The phone is the most efficient tool in sales, yet it’s the most underused. • You can’t build trust without consistent, committed follow-up. • Stop assuming silence means disinterest—prospects are often just busy. • Confidence in your pricing comes from believing in your value. Chapters 00:01 – Introducing Wanda Allen and the importance of follow-up 01:04 – From corporate banking to follow-up systems expert 03:35 – Writing two books and why her first was retired 06:07 – The real reason people don’t follow up: mindset and fear 07:59 – How to prioritize follow-up and overcome procrastination 11:00 – Why consistent follow-up beats your competition 14:12 – Action over anxiety: staying out of your head during follow-up 16:18 – The forgotten power of the phone in today’s sales world   Wanda Allen is an international speaker, coach, and corporate trainer. She's also the author of Follow Up Savvy and Follow Up Sales Strategies. Wanda had a 25 year corporate career where she held the position of Senior Vice President for 15 years. She has a strong skill set for developing systems and applied this skill to the follow up process. She's an expert in helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and sales professionals increase pipelines, improve sales performance, and strengthen relationships by developing strong follow up skills. Contact Wanda on their website, LinkedIn, or Facebook.

Featuring: Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, Palmer Advisors In episode 116, I sit down with Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall, founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A firm focused on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market. Clara and Ben break down what agency owners need to understand about selling their business, navigating deal structures, and preparing for acquisition—even if an exit isn’t on the immediate horizon. We talk about why Palmer was founded, the major shifts in deal terms over the last few years, and why so many agency founders are choosing to stay on post-acquisition. They also share candid insights into common red flags that signal an agency isn’t ready to sell—and what to do about it. We dive into how niching (especially by industry) impacts valuation, what kinds of agencies are in high demand, and how AI and proprietary tools may influence future multiples. Whether you’re dreaming of an exit, fielding buyer interest, or just want to understand how your agency is valued, this episode pulls back the curtain on the M&A process and what today’s buyers really want. Key Bytes • Palmer Advisors focuses on M&A for service-based businesses. • The agency market is evolving with new deal structures. • Cultural fit is crucial in agency acquisitions. • Founders should not exit at their peak performance. • Timing is key when going to market for an exit. • Having a strong leadership team is essential for agency sales. • Niche agencies are more attractive to buyers. • Understanding EBITDA is vital for agency owners. • Deal structures can be creative and flexible. • The future of M&A looks promising with technology advancements. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites 01:47 The Formation of Palmer Advisors 03:35 Reflections on the First Year 05:32 Understanding Agency M&A Dynamics 09:23 Identifying Readiness for Exit 13:28 The Importance of Owner Involvement 16:02 The Value of Niching in M&A 19:09 Demystifying M&A Terminology 23:19 Future Trends in M&A 25:11 The Role of IP and Technology in Valuation 28:34 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts Clara Stedman and Ben Engvall are the founding partners of Palmer Advisors, a boutique M&A advisory firm built specifically for founders of service-based businesses. With a focus on marketing, media, and tech agencies in the lower to middle market (typically $1–10M in EBITDA), Clara and Ben bring a modern, founder-first approach to buying, selling, and valuing businesses. They’ve quickly built a reputation for their strategic deal-making, brutally honest readiness assessments, and commitment to crafting win-win outcomes that align both financial and cultural goals. Clara leads as CEO, bringing a background in corporate retail and fitness, while Ben heads up M&A with a traditional finance foundation. Together, they’re reshaping what agency exits can—and should—look like. Contact Ben and Clara on LinkedIn or on the Palmer Advisors website.

In this engaging discussion, Jason Hennessey, an internationally recognized SEO expert and CEO of Hennessey Digital, shares the journey of scaling his agency to eight figures. He emphasizes the value of niching down and building a strong personal brand in the competitive legal sector. Jason reveals innovative outreach strategies, like personalized books, and the importance of delegation and leadership in preventing burnout. He also delves into cultivating a positive agency culture and highlights the impact of strategic hiring on growth and efficiency.

Featuring: Courtney De Ronde, Forge Financial In episode 114, I sit down with Courtney De Ronde, CEO of Forge Financial and Management Consulting, to talk about the powerful intersection of financial visibility and leadership growth. Courtney shares her journey from CPA to strategic business advisor, and we dig into her Simple Scale Up System—a framework designed to help agency leaders evolve from scrappy doers to scalable CEOs. We explore the importance of accurate revenue recognition, the dangers of relying too heavily on gut instincts, and the mindset shifts needed to lead at the next level. Courtney also gets candid about AI’s impact on the accounting industry and why embracing technology is a must—not a maybe. We wrap things up with some rapid-fire questions that reveal the human side of this numbers expert. Key Bytes • Courtney De Ronde has over 20 years of experience as a CPA. • Understanding financial visibility is crucial for business growth. • AI presents both challenges and opportunities in the CPA industry. • The Simple Scale Up System focuses on scaling leaders and organizations. • Leaders must shift from relying on instincts to leveraging insights. • Cash flow issues often indicate deeper business problems. • Delegation and trust are essential for scaling a business. • Learning from others' failures can accelerate growth. • Financial reporting should match revenue with related expenses. • Things don't have to be perfect to be effective. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Agency Bites and Guest Background 01:04 Courtney's Evolution from CPA to Business Leader 03:19 Understanding Financial Visibility and Coaching Services 04:12 Common Financial Red Flags in Service-Based Businesses 08:06 The Impact of AI on the CPA Industry 12:25 The Simple Scale Up System Framework 15:46 Shifting Mindsets: From Instincts to Insights 22:53 Challenges in Scaling Dependent Businesses 25:13 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts Courtney De Ronde is the CEO of Forge Financial & Management Consulting and the creator of the Simple ScaleUp System™. With over 20 years as a CPA and 15 years in business leadership, Courtney specializes in guiding small businesses from startup to scaleup. She’s an expert in business intelligence, leadership, and corporate finance. We’re thrilled to have her share her insights on how you can achieve your most ambitious goals. Take our free Business Intelligence Grader to gain visibility within your business.

Featuring: Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Rise25 In episode 113, I sit down with Dr. Jeremy Weisz, co-founder of Rise 25 and host of the Inspired Insider podcast. Jeremy and I talk about how podcasting—when used the right way—can become one of the most effective tools for building real relationships, not just content. He breaks down the Dream 200 strategy for identifying ideal clients, why giving value always beats chasing sales, and how his agency uses both podcasting and strategic gifting to keep top-of-mind with partners and clients. We also dive into how he accidentally became an agency owner, the underrated power of thoughtful gifts, and his take on creating a high-impact referral ecosystem. And yes, we end with some rapid-fire questions—including the surprising mascot he’d pick for his agency. Key Bytes • Podcasting is a powerful tool for networking and professional development. • Building relationships through podcasting can lead to business opportunities. • The Dream 200 strategy helps identify and target ideal clients. • Giving away valuable information attracts the right clients. • Gifting strategies can enhance client engagement and retention. • Podcasting can serve multiple purposes: authority building, SEO, and content creation. • Networking through podcasts can create referral partnerships. • Understanding your niche is crucial for effective marketing. • Regular touchpoints with clients through gifts can strengthen relationships. • Consider the source of business advice before acting on it. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Podcasting and Rise 25 02:52 The Evolution of Podcasting and Its Benefits 05:47 Building Relationships Through Podcasting 09:10 The Dream 200 Strategy for Targeting Clients 11:53 Gifting Strategies for Client Engagement 14:54 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts Dr. Jeremy Weisz has been featuring top entrepreneurs with video interviews since 2008 that include founders/CEOs of Pixar, P90X, Atari, Einstein Bagels, Mattel, Kettle Chips, RX Bars, Big League Chew, the Orlando Magic, and many more on www.InspiredInsider.com He runs Rise25, which helps B2B businesses connect to their ‘Dream 200’ clients and referral partners and get ROI, using a podcast. They eliminate 99% of the work and make sure you get ROI. Rise25 is an easy button for you to launch and run your podcast. Podcasting has been one of the best things I've done both personally and professionally. It's been an amazing tool for connecting with referral partners, strategic partners, clients, and more. Podcasting is like a "Swiss Army knife" because it is business development, referral marketing, strategic partnerships, lead generation, SEO, content creation, and personal and professional development, all in one. Contact Dr. Weisz on their website, listen to Inspired Insider, or connect on LinkedIn.

Featuring: Jay Owen, Business Builders In episode 112 of Agency Bytes, I sit down with Jay Owen, founder of the multimillion-dollar agency Business Builders and the community Agency Builders. Jay started his web design business at just 17 and has spent the last 26 years growing it—intentionally and steadily—into a values-driven company focused on people over ego and sustainable growth over fast wins. We dive into the long game of agency leadership, building a business that can thrive without you, and the fulfillment that comes from creating jobs that others love. Jay shares how his faith and values guide the way he leads, the role community has played in his journey, and why slow growth might just be the secret weapon nobody talks about. Whether you’re scaling your team, wrestling with niching, or thinking about legacy, this episode is full of wisdom for the road ahead. Key Bytes • Jay Owen started his entrepreneurial journey at a young age. • Slow growth can lead to more sustainable success. • Creating job opportunities for others is a key motivation. • Community is essential for agency leaders. • Collaboration over competition fosters growth. • Integrating personal values into business is important. • Niche down or maintain variety based on personal preference. • Productization can enhance agency efficiency and profitability. • Having a support system prevents burnout. • Building a strong team is crucial for agency longevity. Chapters 00:00 The Entrepreneurial Spirit Begins 02:37 Navigating the Hills and Valleys of Business 05:35 Building a Team and Creating Opportunities 08:54 The Importance of Community Over Competition 12:50 Creating a Supportive Environment 16:56 Integrating Personal Values into Business 20:56 Niche vs. Variety in Agency Growth 23:32 Productization and Agency Wisdom Jay Owen started a web design company at 17 years old that has grown to a multi-million dollar agency and still growing 26 years later. He’s the author of Building a Business that Lasts and Host of a Podcast by the same name. Jay founded Agency Builders, a community to help agency leaders grow and scale in a healthy way. Contact Jay at the Agency Builders Retreat or his AI with Jay website.