NXTLVL Experience Design

ABOUT JENNIFER:LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejenniferwalsh/ Websites:https://www.walkwithwalsh.comBio:For nearly 30 years, Jennifer has been at the forefront of transformative movements in beauty, retail, & biophilic design. As a consummate innovator, she has been dedicated to reimagining the human experience, whether through pioneering retail concepts, creating immersive outdoor experiences, or driving biophilic design solutions across industries.In the 1990s, Jennifer founded Beauty Bar, the first experiential omni-channel beauty brand in the U.S., introducing open-sell environments, curbside service, and men’s skincare departments, concepts that reshaped how people shop for beauty. This trailblazing work integrated biophilic principles long before they became mainstream, earning recognition as an industry innovator. After selling Beauty Bar ultimately purchased by Amazon in 2011, she continued to build groundbreaking businesses and brands, always staying ahead of the curve. Another first was created in 2014 with Pride & Glory, a collegiate beauty brand. Today, she guides large and small scale biophilic design projects to create spaces that promote human flourishing. From Recharge Rooms to retail spaces, homes, schools, and urban landscapes, her work transforms environments into ecosystems of opportunity. All inspired from lived experiences. Jennifer helps organizations leverage the neuroscience of nature to enhance experiences, foster resilience, and build deeper connections within their organizations.SHOW INTRO:Welcome to Episode 84! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast…In every episode we follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.” And as we continue on this journey, we’ll have guests that are thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places.We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections betw een our mind-body and the built world around us.We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow.If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family.The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org Today, EPISODE 84… I talk with Jennifer Walsh who for nearly 30 years, has been at the forefront of transformative movements in beauty, retail, & biophilic design. Jennifer is an innovator, and has been dedicated to reimagining the human experience, whether through pioneering retail concepts, creating immersive outdoor experiences, or driving biophilic design solutions across industries.Talking about biophilic design isn’t new on the podcast, this time though we bolt on retailing, neuroscience and experience. This conversation is more introspective and looks at one’s motivation to change to considering our environments and biophilic design from the point of view of sense of well-being and personal growth.We’ll get there in a minute but... first a few thoughts…*                     *                          *                          *If you go back to the early episodes of the podcast, you’ll come across Bill Browning. Bill and I connected while I was working the hospitality industry and focusing my efforts on the redesign of the Westin guestroom and lobby design strategy.Bill’s world is Biophilic – both literally and philosophically, may be even existentially. He literally wrote the book on Biophilic Design’s 14 principles, which now includes a 15th with the addition of ‘Awe,’ and he has written a more recent publication with Katie Ryan called “Nature Inside,” it is a terrific handbook to implementing Biophilic design principles in built environments.I think a lot about the design of places where nature has been completely eliminated - think major downtown cities in any corner of the world.It is also not lost on me that when I sit working in my Home Office I have the extraordinarily good fortune to lookout on 2 1/2 acres of green space with a rolling hill down towards a creek that when it rains particularly hard overflows and becomes a small river in my backyard. But this point of view to my backyard and the way I feel sitting on my deck having a morning coffee is not just about the warm feeling of my cup in my hands but that there are key principles of biophilic design at play - namely refuge and prospect. Being exposed daily to these perspectives towards a forest at the back of my property I have an immediate body sense of calm, wonder and awe.I see sun rises to the left of my property and sun sets to the right. The re are Canada geese that, like clockwork, fly over my backyard every fall as they migrate South. I’m attuned to the textures and colors of the sky and the varying degrees of light intensity - bright and brilliant and dreary and diffused.All of these features of a natural world have the effect of putting me at ease.In the past few years, I've begun to connect that mind body experience, the somatic experience of natural places, with what I understand about neuroscience and our long evolutionary history of living the largest proportion of our human development among trees - in a real jungle versus the concrete ones that we have now built all around us.It's no surprise that the Japanese practice of Shinrin-yoku – forest bathing – is actually therapeutic. When we immerse ourselves in a forest atmosphere, using all five senses to connect with nature, we are promoting stress reduction and well-being. Slowing down, and taking mindful walks, appreciating sights, sounds, and smells is so good for us and yet many of us, especially those who are city dwellers, rush from place to place making sure to stay on the clock moving from one appointment to the next and filling our schedules every day with a mind-numbing number of things to check off on our To Do List Taking a moment to disconnect from technology calms the mind and body and has proven benefits like lower stress hormones and boosting immunity.The multi layered, highly textured and colored natural environments that we have evolved from, are often being replaced by environments of banality that actually have deep psychological effects when we are continually exposed to boring buildings.Bringing this intuitive sense, that natural environments support well-being, into the design of built environments, and intentionally creating places that reference biophilic principles, often proves very hard to do in a world where efficiency and productivity leading to increased profitability are what we are taught to drive towards as a reflection of success.Many times, adding plants to a space is an afterthought, like decoration, to make things look better - but they are not really being incorporated as a strategy for building environments to enhance well-being. Interestingly though, when people learn more about how to apply biophilic principles, beyond simply introducing plants as a nod to creating more nature-based experiences, they begin to also understand that their assumptions about adding additional cost may not be well founded. If you consider designing with nature in mind from the get-go, incorporating principles of biophilic design in the places we build as part of the strategy, then managing the costs is totally achievable.Anthropologie stores are a great example of introducing living green walls to their stores. Too be sure, these are not without expense both in their implementation and maintenance but the effect of walking up the grand staircase with this green wall rising from floor to ceiling across multiple levels feels wonderful. I still remember one of my first experiences in the Anthropologie store on Regent Street in London and have since sought to find similar experiences in other retail stores around the world. Design ideas like the green walls in Anthropologie stores is a conscious, intentional, move that enhances experience as well as environmental air quality. We simply feel better when we were places like this and if that turns into reduced absenteeism of associates or increased customer visits then… all the better. There's no question that being under a wash of fluorescent light standing on hard surfaces or sitting in cubicles is perhaps one of the worst ways to be productive and happy in our workplaces. I would imagine that sales associates in Anthropologie stores generally feel better than in big boxes with uniform high intensity lighting, relentless aisles of merchandise, hard surfaces and stale air with no natural sunlight.Full disclosure, when I look back over my career of designing retail places, very infrequently has the design team spent time considering what it would be like to be a sales associate in one of these places. Standing for hours on end in environments that are depleting leads to poor interactions between sales teams and customers. Seems kind of obvious but when people feel better in their workplaces, they're more likely to translate that to positive interactions with guests. More positive interactions with guests could naturally lead to larger basket size and increased number of return visits. All good if you're a retailerAnd yet, we seldom see retail places that fully embrace ideas that support well-being through the strategic introduction of biophilic design principles.New disciplines in the world of neuroscience like neuroaesthetics are beginning to be more widely accepted in the design community and there is a broader recognition about the positive effects of creating environments that apply principles of biophilia that enhance a sense of well-being. And while there is a growing trend of wider adoption of neuroaesthetics we need to keep on beating the drum about environments that are actually good for us.This is where the story leads to my guest Jennifer Walsh.In the 1990s, Jennifer founded Beauty Bar, the first experiential omni-channel beauty brand in the U.S., introducing open-sell environments, curbside service, and men’s skincare departments - concepts that reshaped how people shop for beauty. Jennifer says that she just wanted people to feel good when they came into her store and she somehow intuitively knew that introducing elements of biophilia, though I'm not sure that we actually even had a name for it back then, into her store, would attract people, have them stay longer and return more often.Jennifer’s integration of biophilic principles, long before they became mainstream, earned her recognition as an industry innovator. After Beauty Bar was ultimately purchased by Amazon in 2011, she continued to build groundbreaking businesses and brands, always staying ahead of the curve.Today, she guides large and small scale biophilic design projects to create spaces that promote human flourishing. In retail spaces, homes, schools, and urban landscapes, her work transforms environments into ecosystems of opportunity. All inspired from lived experiences. Jennifer helps organizations leverage the neuroscience of nature to enhance experiences, foster resilience, and build deeper connections within their organizations.ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites: https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comTwitter: DavidKepronPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron the Retail Studio Principal for the architecture and design firm Little (https://www.littleonline.com). He is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. I caught up with Bryan at the SHOP Marketplace event in Charlotte and chatted about his focus on shaping what comes next in digital signage and experiential design. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT BRYAN:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/bryanmeszarosWebsites:openeyeglobal.com (Company)marketscale.com/industries/podcast-network/experience-by-design/ (Experience By Design Podcast)experienceunitedsocialclub.com (Experience United Social Club)email: bmeszaros@openeyeglobal.comBio:Bryan Meszaros is a 25-year veteran of the digital signage and experience design industry, known for blending innovation with measurable impact. As the founder of OpenEye Global, he proved that a small, focused team can deliver big results and helped shape the early evolution of digital engagement.He later made history as the youngest President of SEGD and the first with a digital centric background, while also contributing to the Digital Signage Federation and Shop! Association to advance industry standards.Bryan is also the founder of the Experience United Social Club (XUSC), an international networking series all about bringing together creative minds from the AV, digital signage, and design industries to share ideas and collaborate. With global experience across Europe and APAC, he has spoken at major events including EuroShop, ISE, InfoComm, and DSE, and regularly contributes to leading industry publications.Dedicated to pushing boundaries, Bryan remains focused on shaping what comes next in digital signage and experiential design.SHOW INTRO:SHOW INTRO:Welcome to Episode 83! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast…In every episode we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.” And as we continue on this journey there will be thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places.We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us. We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow.If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family.The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine. VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org Today, EPISODE 83… I talk with Bryan Meszaros founder of EpenEye Global. Bryan is a 25-year veteran of the digital signage and experience design industry, known for blending innovation with measurable impact. Naturally, in a world that is increasingly digitally mediated, Bryan’s business is significantly focused on the emergence of Artificial Intelligence as a tool in his experience place-making toolbox.We’ll get to more of how Bryan sees the use of AI in digital applications in brand experience places in a minute but... first a few thoughts…*                     *                          *                          *I grew up on Star Trek. They original version with Shatner as Captain James T Kirk. These were the sightly campy years in black and white but wonderfully prescient in foretelling what was to come. I used to say that my father, who lived to the ripe old age of 97 was so into it that was holding out until he could just beam up through the transporter to the next phase of his existence. We all watched, my 4 brothers and I every week, my mom? Well not so much…I got used to thinking about digital communication, robots, space travel and technology integrated into our lives facilitating everything from washing dishes to extending lifespans. There isn’t a day that goes by now where my media consumption doesn’t include something on the evolution of Artificial Intelligence. Both the amazing and the alarming.  How it will make workplaces completely different replacing much of what we now do with human brain and brawn with algorithms and computer chips that can fit 1000 computers from the old Star Trek days on your fingertip. How it is changing the way human brains are wired, though when it comes to our neural networks that trundle along at a speed ridiculously slow compared to the digital pace of change that is exponential and moving at the speed of light.How as a visualization tool it is becoming indistinguishable from real life people and places. Creating deep fakes that are so good at impersonating humans that avatars are no longer cartoonish but facsimiles of us that are, well, exactly like us - but whose knowledge base is the compendium of all human knowledge that can be accessed on the internet and provide cogent answers to well-crafted prompts and have them served up in a few seconds. ‘The times they are a changin’ but at a pace that even Dillan couldn’t have imagined. Don’t even get me started about when we finally, and I don’t think it is going to take too long, get to Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) and what that portends for humankind. I am often concerned for my sons and the world they are growing into as young adults. I wish sometimes that they’d have had the experience of growing up in the 60’s and 70’s when times were simpler – but of course they weren’t really. Every decade has it’s messes – sometime beautiful sometimes not and sometimes each of these ends of the human experience spectrum were happening at the same time.What we are experiencing now is evolution at a revolutionary pace. A slow simmering flame has exploded into a blast furn ace of change propelling us all, whether we like it or not, on a path that at times seems to be heading towards the edger of a cliff. Concerned? Well you’d have good reason to be.But then again, if you accept the Ray Bradburry adage of sometimes while standing at the edge of the cliff ‘you need to jump and build your wings on the way down’, may we all then transform in midflight into some sort of lemmings with wings.The subject of AI has surfaced a number of times on this podcast notably with data visualization artists like Refik Anadol and architect artist Samar Younes,  spatial computing specialist and near futurist Neil Redding and Synchronicity Architect Justin Bolognino. Each of these creators and theorists shape the AI narrative to their own ends, each of them proclaiming the virtues and vices of the technology.Uses of AI in design and architecture, as well as other industries, is multifarious and, I would admit, well beyond my more general appreciation for using it as an ideation tool and writing assistant in my everyday work.In the world of experience design there are at least 2 ways - although I would guess many more - to look at it:- on a very basic level there is the physical integration of digital media facilitated by Ai and then there is actual content that ends up on the digital interface – be it a touch screen kiosk, a display array in a sports bar or an enormous multi-story wall in Times Square. Getting these screens to work with the environment is always a challenge. Mainly I believe because they come as an afterthought rather than an integrated design solution and part of a digital experience strategy.In the second case of content, one size does not fit all. Places and people are different. The same content being played on those screens all day are visual noise detracting from overall experience rather than enhancing it. These days, every minute of every day things are changing. Why should digital content on screen of any size and shape be any different?If purveyors of brand experiences are not changing content to adapt to customers everchanging needs across the journey, digital content simply becomes part of the visual texture of the environment slipping into irrelevancy and lending nothing to the embodied memory of a place.This is one area Ai is able to change the game – creating content to meet customer needs more directly. Now it would be difficult, if not impossible to change digital content in Times Square to continually meet the needs of the thousands of people in that digital epicenter in New York. But then we all carry cell phones – person digital devices. All of those phones are geolocated. Each of those those has an address – a personal identifier about who it belongs to and bunch of other information about you – personal, financial, home address, etc.Are a bunch of guys at google looking at you individually as you make your way across Times Square – not really – but your Hazel and Gretel trail of ones and zeros from purchases, GPS searches, app use, etc., etc., tell a lot about you should anyone want to do a little digital forensics.The idea here is that we are giving up this information every time we turn our phones on. That information isn’t snatched from us without our consent (generally) it’s in our service agreement terms and conditions – that impossibly long text that most of us scroll through to the end and click “agree.”But that information could be used to make your path across Times Square more relevant to you. Perhaps your device communicates with other devices or screens and changes the content that you see.This isn’t quite Minority Report yet, where Tom Cruise courses through a store and the displays are talking to him because they recognize his retinas – but it is possible to create messaging that is more personalized to you, specifically, as a customer.Digital signage can change either on the wall of as shelf signage.It is about recognizing your customer and understanding that they are used to creating experience narratives that are more relevant to them because they, in part, have contributed to their making. Want to stay relevant to your customers, new or old? Support their collaboration in the shopping journey offering up opportunities for them to write themselves into the narrative. Story and strategy must be connected. Doing good by your customer is about building a relationship and Ai can support that effort but including engaging digital content that recognizes them as individuals, with relatable and relevant messaging.But the whole enterprise needs to be seamless. Sometime I think that the best tech is the tech you don’t see, but it think it is also perfectly OK to see it if there are no disconnects in journey. Signature moments in the customer journey have to link up so the customer follows the bouncing ball from their first connection point through the purchase moment and then beyond. And this is where this episode’s guest comes into the picture.Bryan Meszaros is a 25-year veteran of the digital signage and experience design industry, known for blending innovation with measurable impact. As the founder of OpenEye Global, he proved that a small, focused team can deliver big results and helped shape the early evolution of digital engagement.Bryan was the youngest President of SEGD and the first with a digital centric background, while also contributing to the Digital Signage Federation and Shop! Association to advance industry standards.He is also the founder of the Experience United Social Club (XUSC), an international networking series all about bringing together creative minds from the AV, digital signage, and design industries to share ideas and collaborate. With global experience across Europe and APAC, he has spoken at major events including EuroShop, ISE, InfoComm, and DSE, and regularly contributes to leading industry publications.Bryan likes the idea of staying dedicated to pushing boundaries, so he is a natural fit for the show. ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites: https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comTwitter: DavidKepronPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. I caught up with Bryan at the SHOP Marketplace event in Charlotte and chatted about his focus on shaping what comes next in digital signage and experiential design. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT DINA TOWNSEND Dina's Linkedin Profile: linkedin.com/in/dinatownsendDINA TOWNSEND BIOAs Chief Sales Officer at Mamava, Dina leads the Sales Organization with energy, optimism, and a genuine passion for building connections. She is rooted in the belief that strong business acumen and a meaningful mission can be seamlessly intertwined. After a purpose-driven career pivot from Digital Signage Technology to Mamava, she channels her expertise into propelling sales for this mission-centric company. Beyond her professional endeavors, Dina is a former skydiver, a hobby homesteader, an avid college football fan, and a well-intentioned, albeit average, golfer.email: dinat@mamava.com | 802.347.2111 (o) Website: www.mamava.comSay yes to dignified lactation spaces! Be a hero—here's how you can help. SHOW INTRO:Welcome to Episode 82! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast…In every episode we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts.” And as we continue on this journey there will be thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places.We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us.We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow.If you like what you hear on the NXTLVL Experience Design show, make sure to subscribe, like, comment and share with colleagues, friends and family.The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is always grateful for the support of VMSD magazine.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. I think the IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org Today, EPISODE 82… I talk with Dina Townsend Chief Sales Officer at Mamava a company whose mission is to create a healthier society through infrastructure and support for breastfeeding. And, along with partners who share in in their purpose of celebrating and supporting breastfeeding, Mamava is moving closer to creating a future where there is a dignified lactation space anywhere a parent may go. We’ll get to my discussion with Dina in a minute, first though a few thoughts…*                     *                          *                          *A few episodes back I had Claire Coder founder and CEO if Aunt Flow on the show. That was an interesting conversation since we crossed what I think were a few boundaries (at least for me) and we talked quite candidly about menstruation. Not just about the biology of women’s monthly cycle but about the fact that there are many women who have faced the scenario of getting their period unexpectedly and not have pads or tampons to meet them in their moment of need.Enter the company Aunt Flow who provides free feminine hygiene products in public restrooms, schools and other public buildings and to Fortune 500 corporate headquarters - for which tens of thousands of women are eternally grateful.This conversation with Dina Townsend, I guess you could say, falls in the Aunt Flow camp of subjects. Breast feeding moms was not a subject that I had on the list of things to address on the podcast. But here we are nevertheless with a subject that piqued my curiosity because the company Dina works for, Mamava, checks most of the boxes in our Dialogues on DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and he Arts” catch phrase.First off…I did not know there was something called the “Pump Act”. For the curious out there, a little internet searching comes up with this:“…The PUMP for Nursing Mothers Act, enacted in December 2022, expands workplace protections for nursing employees by requiring employers to provide reasonable break time and a private, non-bathroom space for pumping breast milk for up to one year after a child's birth.This law allows for legal action if employers fail to comply…”Now… Dina will contend that many employers do in fact provide such a space and also that a janitors closet with a folding chair would be in line with the requirements. Sure, a closet meets the description of a ‘private space’ but it wholly underserves the needs of a nursing mother in terms of experience.I am aware that there are widely divergent views on the whole subject of breast feeding – we are not going to go there – except that I’ll say that I fully line up behind my wife who breastfed our two sons.My discussion with Dina moves from the necessity to provide environments for nursing mothers to breastfeed their infants while in public places to the buying power of mothers who statistics indicate make an enormous amount of the buying decisions in households to how tying Retail Media Networks - RMNs – to Mamava pods serve a triple bottom line serving People, Planet and Profit. It’s a way of shifting our thinking about business from “How much money did we make?” to: “Did we make money in a way that benefits society and the environment too?”Nielsen, Boston Consulting Group (BCG) and Harvard Business Review research tells us that Women drive 70–80% of consumer purchasing decisions in the U.S. and that is even for products they don’t personally use.  And that their annual global consumer spending, is $20 trillionwhich, by the way, is a number projected to rise to $28 trillion. In many households, women make or heavily influence91% of new home purchases, 92% of vacation decisions, and 80% of healthcare choices says research by the Yankelovich Monitor, Marketing to Women Conference data.And Millennial and Gen Z mothers are even more influential: they control about $1 trillion in direct annual spendingand are primary decision-makers for food, home goods, education, and entertainment – says research by the Pew Research Center.So, women and moms are a force to be reconned with in terms of buying power and why Mamava pods are more than an economic discussion. The behavioral and psychographic aspects of them is important as well.Women increasingly valuebrands that support family life, caregiving, and inclusivity and so features like Mamava pods in retail locations or corporate HQs or parental-leave policies have brand-equity impact.We have known for some time that brands that are considered authentic exhibiting genuine empathic concern for their customer and employeesare major drivers in establishing brand affinity and purchase decisions. The BabyCenter “State of Modern Motherhood” report says that “ 9 in 10 mothers say they are more loyal to brands that “understand the challenges of motherhood.”And then there is mom’s digital influence. Pew Internet studies explains that“80% of moms research products online before buying and that 60% follow parenting or lifestyle influencers for purchase guidance.”When you combine these factors with the emergence of Retail Media Networks, RMNs, you have a value add to placing Mamava pods in places that do not actually take up any more space on the sales floors of a store than is already being occupied with stuff that does support the brand experience or selling anything.Use to be that when digital screens came into the retail world, we had kiosks as wayfinding devices. Then a proliferation of screens emerged in the market where walls were more digital wallpaper crowding the environment with content and, in my opinion adding little to experience, arguably creating a shopping experience with more visual distraction and diminishing the overall experience. Painting the environment with the broad-brush stroke of digital media is often ineffective in capturing and retaining attention and doesn’t lead to the positive results we think it does.That said, well considered application of digital media like those found on Mamava pods creates an opportunity to provide messaging to customers that could be more like a public service announcement, like ‘get your flu shot here today,’ or a focused marketing piece that invites customers to consider a particular product that they may not have thought of prior to arriving at the store.So, you might ask why this matters to retail designWomen and mothers aren’t just your average everyday consumers, they’re key decision-makers shaping the social expectations of brands and spaces. Retailers, airports, and workplaces that provide amenities like Mamava pods, family restrooms, or flexible shopping experiences are responding directly to data-driven insights like:Increased dwell time and spending when caregivers feel accommodated.Higher brand loyalty and word-of-mouth among mothers.Positive CSR – Corporate Social Responsibility - and inclusivity signaling which is important for both consumer and employee attraction.If you have recently traveled through an airport, you may have already come upon a Mamava pod or maybe you have seen their “bench” version in a retail store. Fed up with pumping in bathrooms and borrowed spaces—Mamava’s co-founders, Sascha Mayer and Christine Dodson, applied their decades of expertise in design and brand strategy to solve a problem that was largely invisible: the lack of lactation spaces in workplaces and public spaces and as a result, the Mamava pod was born.Tying together the Mamava pod, and its various incarnations, and retail media needed some savvy about how to create an effective in-store media application that wouldn’t end up as just another screen in an already overwhelming environment.Enter Dina Townsend.As Chief Sales Officer at Mamava, Dina leads the Sales Organization with energy, optimism, and a genuine passion for building connections. She is rooted in the belief that strong business acumen and a meaningful mission like the Mamava brand platform can be seamlessly intertwined. After a purpose-driven career pivot from the world of Digital Signage Technology to Mamava, Dina channels her expertise into propelling sales for this mission-centric company. ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites: https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comTwitter: DavidKepronPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon.  The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT CHRISTIAN DAVIES:Christian's LinkedIn profile: linkedin.com/in/christian-davies-fcsd-3728a513Websites: https://www.bergmeyer.comemail: cdavies@bergmeyer.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/christianthdavies/ Christian Davies Bio: Davies brings 30+ years' experience as a creative leader, working with brands across the globe, from disruptive startups to the very top Fortune 500 contenders in retail, experiential, beauty, fashion, hospitality, technology, luxury, and more. His veteran status includes over 100 national and international design awards (15 of which earned top honors for Store of the Year Awards), including a five-time winner of design:retail’s Retail Design Influencer as well as a coveted Retail Design Luminary award.  As a Chief Strategy Officer for Bergmeyer, strategic innovation and design leadership define Davies role, stemming from a robust background in creative direction and design thinking. His approach harnesses the power of diverse, interdisciplinary teams, developed through hands-on experience in various roles across a wide variety of companies throughout his career. As Chief Strategy Officer, steering the business strategy and our passion for innovation encapsulates my daily mission.Prior to Bergmeyer, Davies served as Managing Director of the Creative Marketing Group at Verizon, Creative Vice President of Global Design and Innovation for Starbucks, Executive Creative Director of the Americas at Fitch, and Vice President/Managing Creative Director at FRCH Design Worldwide.Also See: https://www.bergmeyer.com/people/christian-davies SHOW INTRODUCTION:Welcome to Episode 81! of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast…What started at a pivotal moment during the COVID pandemic in early 2020 has continued for seven seasons and now 81 episodes. This season we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts. In the coming weeks we have some terrific conversations that are both fun and inspiring. They are going to include thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places.We talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us.We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow.The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is grateful for the support of VMSD magazine.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience.SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org Today, EPISODE 81… I talk with Christian Davies. We actually recorded this discussion months ago and Christian wondered if publishing it now was still relevant.I assured him it was, since Christian tends to unearth issues that are future forward - things to be mindful about should we want to address the issues we all face as individuals or societies or as architects and designers making places and things as we serve as our clients creative sherpa guides bringing ideas into the built world. Now… Christian has been sitting atop the heap of 80 conversations as the most listened to episode since we recorded our first talk a couple years ago. So, I thought, well why not do Christian Davies 2.0?Christian does not disappoint - never has – over a couple of decades, Christian has consistently drawn audiences and colleagues into conversation, sometimes challenging, and always brilliant and things that drive design thinking. His matter-of-fact English attitude to the world of design is sometimes a ‘no holds barred’ reality check that makes you think twice about the truths you have held dear. His drive towards excellence is irrepressible. That makes him, some may say, demanding because I think he expects that we all give a damn about what we are brining into the world. And why not? We all share space on this little blue dot and, we had better get it, and soon, that we are part of a vast ecosystem of interdependencies.We cover a lot of ground in this open-ended conversation – I’d not expect less from Christian - And here is a few thoughts on subject areas we touch on…1. Entropy:Entropy is a scientific measure of disorder, randomness.Astrophysicist and other cosmologists have postulated that our universe is continuing to expand to a maximum state of entropy from a moment in time, the beginning of the Universe that they have called The Big Bang.There's lots of great content that you can certainly dig up on what happens when the universe finally expands to maximum entropy and all particles are spread out evenly within the unimaginably large space of the universe. It's suggested that of course this maximun expansion will take something like 10 to the 36 or 37 power years in other words trillions and trillions of years. A very very long time….But for now, the way I try to think of it is things will expand and eventually slow down as they all spread out to be evenly distributed throughout the universe… seems reasonable…It's kind of like imagining the initial moments after a massive explosion. Things spread out pretty quickly from the epicenter of the explosion and as they're flung far and wide, particles eventually slow and if you think of it in terms of entropy they all reach maximum randomness.I kind of think that right now, today, considering that the scientists think that the universe has only been around for 14 1/2 billion years or so, that we're kind of right at that very beginning stage of the explosion and things are moving faster and faster away from the epicenter of The Big Bang. This is interesting if you think that the universe will continue to be expanding for a few trillion years so right now yeah, we're kind of sort of in the one second after the explosion time frame. Anyway I am not an astrophysicist and some of these enormous ideas still leave me scratching my head…If we look at today, and everything around us, it certainly seems that things are speeding up and becoming more distributed, more random.I know I've talked about the whole idea of the pace of change in a number of episodes but I find this really interesting because, as I discussed with Christian, it's really hard to design into a future state when you consider that the sands beneath your feet are always shifting.How do we know which step is the right one? How do you know when we step on solid ground or drop forever into a bottomless void…I think the challenge here for designers is that, at least for a time, we need to have a sense of stability and order. The challenge is, I think, is that we're moving to an increasing rate of change where stability and order might be elusive to say the least.2. Moments of human connection make experiences great:I think as we speed along and never ending sea of change perhaps one of the things that we can hang on to, a stake in the ground if you will, will continue to be our ability to maintain our relationships.Change has a funny way of, well… changing people. And, one of our jobs will be to keep up with changing expectations of brands and their customers. One thing is sure, as we scream along this ever changing path, relationships will remain as one of the fundamental qualities of great experiences. Both brand experience architecture and the means with which we engage with brands will change to meet evolving expecations but, my expectation, (or maybe it's just my hope) is that humans still stay at the center of it all - Since at least for this short little time that humans have been in existence, we have relied on the empathic connection between individuals to help create meaning and connection to the world around us as well as the things well as the things we simply buy.And I, like Christian, believe that in the end, when you look at successful projects in our long design careers, the good ones, I mean the really good ones, we're not just because we received a great brief with an inspired client who had a vision of changing up the world,but that the teams we were connected to both on the consultant and client sides were also great. There was something that clicked. There was a gel in communication, respect and collaboration that drove these projects forward.Some may have heard me say before projects will come and go but the relationships are really what make the work great. I'd rather lose a project than trash the relationships…3. Three things that facilitate success stories in the world of retail place-making:So, if you're going to look at success stories over a career full of projects, when you look back at what really made them great was, of course that they were successful from a financial point of view, that they drove increase customers and deeper brand relationships and better revenues all those things are important indicators of success but that there are things that are required to make all of that happen. One would be that there's a big idea someone at the helm of a brand or business that has a thought about doing something different breaking out of a traditional way of bringing goods or services to market, of serving a customer in a different way and technology is often being a facilitator of that.There was coffee long before Starbucks. There was getting from A to B lby horse, camel, richshaw, long before Uber. There were places to stay along the Silk Road before Airbnb. And if you had a shaman in your village you could likely find out where you ame from and where your future was going to be long before there were anything like 23&Me or ancestry.com. In some ways the goods or services have not really changed. How we get them in the hands of customers has changed and that has often been facilitated with new technologies.4. AI – as a new tool for ideation and the ‘why’ behind design:One of those technological advances of course that everybody is talking about these days is artificial intelligence.AI it's both causing a lot of excitement about what it sees has to offer in the short term, becoming a new tool in the architect and designers toolbox for ideation as well as causing a lot of concern about what happens to humankind when we finally get to general AI or super artificial intelligence.I am both excited and increasingly aware of influences that it will have on the job market, delivery of goods and services and other parts of the ecosystem like education and manufacturing etcetera etcetera.But if we just for a moment set some of the anxieties aside and simply look at as a tool for imagination and engagement with clients fostering the collaborative process of ideation, it has extraordinary potential to change the game of how we designers and architects work with our clients and create ideas about bringing their goods and services to market.There's a lot of opportunity and uncertainty about what happens when you turbocharge the creative process with AI tools.In the end though, at least for now, the question remains - is that there is a human at the helm of prompt curation?The output is only as good as the input that I'm able to suggest as a prompt. If not… garbage in – garbage out.This of course is interesting because it puts the initial burden still on people to be able to articulate their vision in language and use AI tools to refine the visualizations and other content that emerges from using them.As we use these tools they make things faster but I also sometimes wonder about whether they simply make us lazy and remove our thinking from the process.So Christian does talk about the idea of the drawings or images being very compelling but also needing to ask, and answer, the question of ‘why this particular approach or output is relevant and connected to the brand or customer that we're trying to serve?In the end it’s not about the ‘what’ of things that make solutions to design challenges great but more and more about the ‘why’ you're doing certain things.It’s about the process by which you got to the solution rather than simply the solution itself.Don't get me wrong the solutions to the challenges are sometimes very satisfying but what I'm ultimately interested in is the thinking process that led you to along this pathway… it's the journey not just the destination that's important in the creative process….And I think it's ever more important to our clients in the design world that they're looking for people who are not just production oriented but who are also focused on guiding them through an uncertain future5. B-Corporations:And this in a way leads us to the part of our my discussion with Christian about how his company Bergmeyer has recently become a B-Corp.A B-Corporation is a for profit company, but it is certified by the non-profit  B Lab Global and the whole idea is that it seeks to meet high standards for social and environmental performance and accountability and even more so transparency in the ways that they are doing business in support of being good stewards of our environment.In the changing sands that we're all standing on, as entropy increases and uncertainty continues to unfold in front of us, there is certainty that our planet is also in peril as climate change continues to wreak havoc on environmental systems. These B-corporations are seen as a force for good who work to balance profit with a commitment to both people and our planet. What differentiates them from other traditional companies is that they prioritize the social and environmental impacts of their business while at the same time not discounting the fact that they still are in business - that they are accountable to stakeholders as well as shareholders.The stakeholders can be considered as all of us because as companies continue to pull resources out of the ground and push the byproducts of industrialization into landfills and oceans all of our lives are at stake.All right then that's a not so brief summary of some of the ideas that Christian and I riff on in our conversation…Let's dig into some of the details…ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites: https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comTwitter: DavidKepronPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. David also writes a popular blog called “Brain Food” which is published monthly on vmsd.com.  The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT APRIL RINNE:BIO: My North Star: Helping people and organizations understand what's on the horizon – and how they fit into it. I decipher signals of change, help leaders and teams improve their tolerance for uncertainty, and scout new insights and opportunities in a world in flux. Over 25+ years and 100+ countries, I’ve been exposed to a wide range of companies, cultures, business models, leadership styles, and norms. And I’ve seen time and time again: Every organization, every team, and every individual struggles with change and uncertainty in some way. Even before the pandemic, and especially today. We’ve all had different experiences of change, and we could all use some help with the unknown. Leveling up our relationships to change and uncertainty is the opportunity of our lifetimes.My career portfolio includes futurist, speaker, author, advisor, global development executive, microfinance lawyer, investor, mental health advocate, certified yoga teacher, globetrotter, insatiable handstander, and ambassador of joy. Along the way I've been named one of the 50 Leading Female Futurists in the world, a World Economic Forum Young Global Leader, a member of Thinkers50 Radar and the Silicon Guild, and one of the earliest Estonian e-Residents. I'm also the author of the international bestseller Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change.My journey to Flux has been deeply personal. It began with the death of both of my parents in a car crash when I was 20. My entire life flipped upside-down. And today, there is nothing I enjoy more than sharing with others how I learned to see differently, find meaning, and strengthen my Flux Superpowers -- and how you can do so, too.April’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprilrinne/Websites: https://aprilrinne.comBUY THE BOOK: https://www.amazon.com/Flux-Superpowers-Thriving-Constant-Change/dp/1523093595email: april@aprilrinne.comSHOW INTRO:Welcome to Season 7 of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast – Episode 80!What started at a pivotal moment during the COVID pandemic in early 2020 has continued for seven seasons and now 80 episodes. This season we continue to follow our catch phrase of having “Dynamic Dialogues About DATA: Design, Architecture, Technology and the Arts. In the coming weeks we have some terrific conversations that are both fun and inspiring. They are going to include thought provoking futurists, AI technology mavens, retailers, international hotel design executives as well as designers and architects of brand experience places.We’ll talk with authors and people focused on wellness and sustainable design practices as well as neuroscientists who will continue to help us look at the built environment and the connections between our mind-body and the built world around us.We’ll also have guests who are creative marketing masters from international brands and people who have started and grown some of the companies that are striking a new path for us follow.And I don't know, maybe there will be a couple of mystery guests that will just shake things up and give us a perspective on things that we've never thought about before.As in the past couple of seasons, we are grateful for the support of VMSD magazine.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing us to keep on talking about what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org So, fasten your seat belt we’re in for some good times…Today, EPISODE 80… I talk with April Rinne whose North Star is helping people and organizations understand what's on the horizon – and how they fit into it. April deciphers signals of change, helps leaders and teams improve their tolerance for uncertainty, and scouts new insights and opportunities in a world in flux. As well as being an excellent hand stander, (check out pics of her doing handstands in places all over the world on her website), she is also the author of the international bestseller “Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change.”We will get to her book, some of the key ideas and so much more in a minute but first a few thoughts…It seems to me that over the past few seasons I've tended to talk about the idea of ‘the pace of change’ a lot.I'm beginning to think it's a little like my unnatural fear of sharks (thank you Steven Spielberg) and that I keep on talking about them and seeking out images of them on Instagram as some sort of cognitive behavioral therapy to get me better with the idea that I can actually go swimming in the ocean and not feel afraid of Spielberg’s Bruce sneaking up on me. I seem to talk about change a lot for a few reasons…maybe because, I will confess, that I don't think that I was actually good with change for years. I was pretty set in my ways about having a plan and making sure the plan was followed. I got significantly bent out of shape if the plan didn't go as, well… planned.If we were off on our timing, if something was late or if some spontaneous moment interrupted the calendar and I was going to have to re-adjust, it took me sometimes quite a while to recalibrate and get with the ‘new’ program.And then there was the spring of 2020 where, well…everything changed. No doubt for someone who wasn't so good with the idea that things could change on a dime and a path you had so expertly crafted into the near future would just disappear in front of you,I came to understand that there were three types of change:the change that's innate - you know built into the system of everything the seasons the sun rising in the east and setting in the West and that kind of change that if it didn't happen you would think something was significantly wrong with the universethere was the change that we choose that gives us a sense of agency the kind of change we actually like more than others because we get to determine where it's going and what it actually means for usand then there's a kind of change like the COVID pandemic that is thrust upon you and in those moments shifting circumstances open a door to uncertainty that sense of clarity and purpose dissipates into a swell of unknowns and deep discomfort settles in making everything seem tenuous.That kind of change, I would hazard a guess, not many of us are fond of.That sort of change demands an openness to confront the necessity of things we have often held so dear or the veracity of things we've believed in about ourselves and others.This type of change asks us to embrace the unknown and find an opportunity for transformation in the ambiguity.This kind of change is the kind of change that requires you to stare long into the face of hard questions, discover inconvenient answers and make challenging decisions.That kind of change, turns out, is where all the growth is.That kind of change is embracing the Robert frost poem of the ‘path not travelled…’The thing is… as I think I’ve said before… it's easy for us to fall for nostalgia.It's cozy. It's welcoming and reassuring because it's familiar and it's easy to continue to keep doing the same thing that we have always done because, for some, there's security in choosing the familiar in preference for going on an adventure.I love that one scene from The Hobbit where Bilbo Baggins, after refusing to go on the trip with the dwarves, finally gets it that maybe there's something in it for him, a growth opportunity, and he runs after the company exclaiming to neighbors, when asked where he was going, that he was ‘going on an adventure.’But there's a strange paradox in all of this and that is; we both avoid the perceived danger of the unknown because the unfamiliar signals potential dangers and our neurobiology is geared to sounding the alarms when the unfamiliar lurks near…while at the same time being driven towards novel and the unexpected because that's where our brain ultimately finds learning opportunities (should we care to pay attention).There's no point in continuing to pull a covers over your head and hope that the uncertainty will pass because it's quite likely that when you reemerge whatever the challenge was it will still be thereand you'll open up your eyes and feel a like Dorothy and you not being in Kansas anymore,because while you were conveniently not paying attention, the world was swept up tossed upside down and blown into a new reality in the context of the ever-increasing pace of change that we are all now exposed to.Of course, all of the speed that we're exposed to these days is forcing cultural shifts to happen, some of which we are not neurobiologically or evolutionarily adequately adapted to. Remember, it's taken a few billion years to get where we are. We can't expect that we'll be able to keep up with the mental machinery we now have. (Another challenge to talk about another time.)As we move into a new experience paradigm of continual change, failing fast and continual iteration may become ‘de rigeur’ because constant change will demand it and make it mainstream. In order to remain in sync with change, we will have to find a way to get right with the idea of change.This presents a particular problem for leaders of all sorts who have been traditionally looked upon to be able to divine the future and help lead their teams with certainty into a near ordistant future state. How do leaders maintain a sense of trust and engender followership from their teams when they may legitimately be unsure of where their businesses might need to go as the ground shifts beneath their feet?All of this suggests a need for extraordinary flexibility when trying to plan a pathway through a period of unprecedented change. That flexibility in large part comes not from our ability to develop some sort of control over the pace of change in the outer world - those things that are happening around us - but trying to find a sense of calm and flexibility within our inner world - to adjust and find a way to be in relationship with change rather than imposing our will on and resisting change as it comes to us.This is where I get to introduce April Rennie, author of the book “Flux: 8 Superpowers For Thriving In Constant Change.”April's highly readable book landed on my desk during the COVID pandemic when I was struggling with trying to adapt to the unknown. Her idea of flux is looked at as a noun and a verb;in the case of a noun, FLUX could be considered as “constant change”as a verb FLUX can mean “to learn to become fluid”What April really focuses on however is 8 Superpowers that help you to develop what she calls the “FLUX Mindset”- ‘the state of mind that allows you to see all change whatever it is, the good the bad, the things that you have control over and the things you can't control, the expected and the unexpected, and see all of it as an opportunity to learn to grow and improve.’For April Rinne, the idea of change and living within a world in flux, as about seeing it as a space of emergent possibility.That has a lot to do with feeling OK with being lost, being comfortable with not knowing.This may mean letting go of old scripts, narratives that just don't fit anymore but that you've come to rely on as a way of explaining, or explaining away, circumstances of your life.Perhaps we need to embrace a mindset of change that is closer to indigenous wisdom than perhaps other more wired cultures on our planet.It's not that we control nothing, but that we shift our view to be in relationship with change.April suggests that when we can be in relationship with uncertainty there's a kind of a dance, a push and pull, and that indigenous cultures seemed to have a keener sense of relationship - a relationship with themselves, with one another and with Mother Nature.Our conversation leads to the invitation to see the value in our interdependence to each other and the world around us ( even if the world is in a state of FLUX ) and that we work on growing our appreciation for and prioritization of fostering a positive relationship with change.If we can, the healthier we will be, both individually and collectively….    The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT JAIME SCHWARZ:BIO: Jaime Schwarz is an award-winning copywriter and creative director, having worked with over 100 brands at NYC agencies before starting his entrepreneurial journey.In 2017 he authored the world's first NFT-focused patent and launched BrandTherapy.coach, a product market fit-focused consultancy built on the technique of letting the brand speak for itself. After co-founding seven startups and consulting for dozens more, in 2022, Jaime pivoted into the web3 world by using AI to literally teach brands to speak for themselves and co-founding The TeamFlow.Institute using team intelligence to maximize the momentum of decentralized teams to create the Company Betterment Industry. He also co-founded ParallelWorlds.us and positioned it as the world's first spatial transformation company. Since then, once his patent was granted, he has been building MRKD as an IP-founded venture focused on empowering the IP economy through co-creationism. He serves on the board of Wayfinders on the Hudson, is an advisor to XRSI.org, and lives in Hastings on Hudson with his wife and two boys.Jaime’s LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/jaimeschwarzWebsites:brandtherapy.coach (Company)jaimeschwarz.com (Portfolio)calendly.com/getbrandtherapy/30min (Other)Email: jaimeschwarz@gmail.comSHOW INTROWelcome to the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast EPISODE 79 … and my conversation with Jaime Schwarz an award-winning copywriter and creative director, founder of Brand Therapy and a number of other ventures.On the podcast our dynamic dialogues based on our acronym DATA - design, architecture, technology, and the arts crosses over disciplines but maintains a common thread of people who are passionate about the world we live in and human’s influence on it, the ways we craft the built environment to maximize human experience, increasing our understanding of human behavior and searching for the New Possible.    he NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD Magazine part of the Smartwork Media family of brands.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing the discourse forward on what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.orgJaime Schwarz spent years work in the fast-paced world of New York advertising agencies where he came to deeply understand brands. Since then, his entrepreneurial journey has led to patent awards, and a few business ventures that truly bring things to the NXTLVL. We’ll get to all of that in a moment but first though, a few thoughts…                 *                                  *                                  *OK so where to start on this one...You know… I try to lead teams by being authentic and transparent. Candid when it matters to get to the heart of the matter and circumspect when sharing the whole story it might not be appropriate. But thinking about my interview with Jamie Schwarz makes me sit back in my chair and consider what I think I know.I think I know a little about a lot and I say that not lacking humility, but I've been always compulsively curious about stuff. All kinds of stuff.I like to know why things work the way they work, how people got to the places they got to in their careers, how history unfolds and the story of culture is our told and retold. And all sorts of other stuff. I like reading about quantum physics but will confess I still get confused about how traveling at the speed of light and coming back to your origin will mean that you come back years in the future while the passage of time for you may only be a few moments. I loved the movie interstellar. I don't know things like that just sort of confused me, but they fascinate me nevertheless.I digress.I think I probably know a little bit about enough and in some cases it just might be that I know enough to be dangerous as the saying goes. One of the motivations to doing the podcast is that I get to speak to lots people who are just way smarter and tuned in than me…and I generally add here that the bar is actually set pretty low because there are so many really smart people in the world.I like studying about the things that I try to engage in conversations about. I'll read books, watch hours of online content – presentations, speeches and interviews. I'll dig up articles and make sure that I show up ready to go for a conversation.Early on in the podcast series I had someone thank me for showing up well prepared. I just sort of thought that that was my responsibility to make sure that if someone was offering their time to have a discussion that I would have done my necessary background preparation to make it worth their while. Some interviews I sort of set as stretch goals - people who I want to talk to because they have deep insight on areas that I am interested in but in which I may not have more than an intermediate or novice education. My wife, a veteran of print and television journalism, a multi-book author, strong advocate of radical listening and who also has the uncanny ability to see way beyond the immediate conversation would always say to me that when in discussion you need to leave the interview questioning whether you know more about the person at the close of the conversation than you did when it started. That's an interesting starting point when entering a conversation because it sets the basic premise for who's doing the talking - how much listening is going on and how you listen not to simply add your own opinions, solve the problem or give advice, but to dig deeper in your understanding, resulting in better attunement.I will confess that sometimes I am fully aware that my enthusiasm for subject matter leads to jumping in, offering personal experiences and contributing ideas. Conversations can chase multiple ideas, but I also think that's a result of what I consider as associative thinking - one idea connects to another and sets off a cascade of related or interdependent subjects. And then a whole array of rabbit holes lay before us. Each one leading to a delightful journey. Oh now which one to choose – why not all – let’s go!I have come to use these introductions to podcast interviews as replacements of a sort for a blog I used to write for VMSD magazine called “Brain Food.” I take the time to consider what the conversation with my guest is about and set to musing on ideas that emerged in the conversation. Some of them are personal, stories that resonate deeply with personal or professional experiences. Others are thought bubbles that I offer up for further investigation. I think that most of this episode is like thought bubbles. It covers the nature of branding and relationships with consumers, trust in marketing and storytelling, NFTs and creating derivative works and related IP legal issues, Web 3.0, Deconstructivism, co-creation in a digital mediated world, Ai and collective intelligence, the pace of change, art and digital twinning and the inherent value of co-creative works, quantum computers and hacking bitcoin, object permanence in the digital space… and, and, and you get the idea. There is so much here that you might say it lacks focus, but I think it actually offers up the idea of complexity in our fast-paced digitally mediated world where interdependencies reign, everything is connected to everything in one multi-dimensional system and to what end it is sweeping us along. We can come to these various rabbit holes of conversation because Jaime Schwarzis an award-winning copywriter and creative director, having worked with over 100 brands at NYC agencies before starting his entrepreneurial journey.In 2017 he authored the world's first NFT-focused patent and launched BrandTherapy.coach, a “product market fit-focused” consultancy (about which he speaks in our talk) that is built on the technique of letting the brand speak for itself. After co-founding seven startups and consulting for dozens more, in 2022, Jaime pivoted into the web3 world by using AI to literally teach brands to speak for themselves and co-founding The TeamFlow.Institute using team intelligence to maximize the momentum of decentralized teams to create the Company Betterment Industry. He also co-founded ParallelWorlds.us and positioned it as the world's first spatial transformation company. Since then, once his patent was granted, he has been building MRKD as an IP-founded venture focused on empowering the IP economy through co-creationism. I could have prompted Jaime with any of these subjects and just sat back and taken it all in.ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. David also writes a popular blog called “Brain Food” which is published monthly on vmsd.com.  The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT CLAIRE CODER:BIO: Claire Coder (Forbes 30under30) is a 28-year-old Thiel Fellow and founder and CEO of Aunt Flow. On a mission to make the world better for people with periods, Aunt Flow stocks public bathrooms with freely accessible tampons and pads. Through Claire’s leadership, Aunt Flow launched patented tampon & pad dispensers in 60k+ bathrooms and raised $17m+ in venture capital. Coder launched her first company at age 16, designed a bag for Vera Bradley that sold out in 24 hours, and has her own line of GIFs. After getting her period in public without the supplies she needed, at 18 years old, Claire dedicated her life to developing a solution to ensure businesses and schools can sustainably provide quality period products for free in public bathrooms. Since 2016, Aunt Flow has worked with thousands of businesses and schools, including organizations like Google, Princeton University, Netflix, and 30+ professional sports stadiums, to offer freely accessible period product dispensers, filled with organic cotton tampons and pads. Aunt Flow has donated over 7 million organic cotton tampons and pads to menstruators in need since 2021. Claire’s ultimate goal in life is for any menstruator to walk into any bathroom and never need to worry if they start their period, because Aunt Flow period products are freely available!Claire’s story has been featured in TeenVogue, Forbes, Fortune, and she starred in TLC’s Girl Starter Season 1. Claire speaks regularly surrounding her advocacy work, starting a social enterprise and journey as a female founder. For more information, please visit LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairecoder/ Websites:clairecoder.com (Personal)goauntflow.com (Company)SHOW INTROWelcome to the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast.EPISODE 78 … and my conversation with Claire Coder the Founder and CEO of Aunt Flow. On the podcast our dynamic dialogues based on our acronym DATA - design, architecture, technology, and the arts crosses over disciplines but maintains a common thread of people who are passionate about the world we live in and human’s influence on it, the ways we craft the built environment to maximize human experience, increasing our understanding of human behavior and searching for the New Possible.    The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD Magazine part of the Smartwork Media family of brands.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing the discourse forward on what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.orgWhen Claire Coder was 18 years old she was at an event and she used a public restroom. While there, she discovered that she had unexpectedly started her period. And… she didn't have a quarter. Why she would have needed a quarter and what happened as a result of not having one is the subject of an exceptional entrepreneurial trajectory that has changed woman's public bathrooms around the country.We’ll get to all of that in a moment but first though, a few thoughts…                 *                                  *                                  *What if you had an amazing idea that you knew was a no-brainer, an idea that provided something deeply necessary, but it seemed that everyone had overlooked it.What if you had a moment of insight from a personal experience that chartered out a clear path for providing a product and service that seemed to satisfy the deeply under met needs of more than 50% of the population?And what if when you took this moment of clear mental insight to a group of venture capitalists explaining that this was not just an idea that would not only satisfy a certain customer need but that could be an extraordinarily profitable business operation but when you asked for their involvement, they simply said… “NO”.And what if you heard “NO” 86 times when trying to get people interested in supporting your idea. Would you give up? Would you have already given up after the 1st or 10th or 50th “NO”? And what if you happened to be an 18-year-old young woman with this vision and enthusiasm and the subject of your VC pitches dealt with menstruation and woman's public bathrooms... How far do you think that would have gotten you?I could focus in on this intro by talking about the thing that we don't talk about, at least as a guy I can't imagine me and my guy friends would have ever talked about…as a teen, young man or frankly even today.Which is to say… women and monthly periods. I could focus in on this somewhat taboo subject of a naturally occurring bodily function that we somehow sweep under the social discourse carpet, despite that more than 50% of the population has one every single month. Or I could talk about the strange discomfort that comes up because somehow, we've made this discussion something to be ashamed about or talked only about between mothers and grandmothers and their daughters. The strange irony here is that the other 49.53% of the North American population will end up living with, perhaps marrying and having children with the 50+ percent of the population who has their period every single month and yet, we'd prefer not to talk about it…But, if I did focus on those subjects, which by the way are not unimportant to talk about, it would potential we derail another story about a passion for entrepreneurship and the overwhelming need to address the needs of a population who are wholly unserved.It takes a lot of guts to be an entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur is not easy. In fact, there are a lot of people who would say you’d simply have a few screws loose to actually want to be an entrepreneur.It's highly risky and you carry an extraordinary amount of responsibility. Everything from fundraising and decision-making, planning operations, accepting both successes and failures.When the entire enterprise is your baby, and relies on you as the key driver of the big idea, it can be incredibly emotionally taxing. The working hours can be extraordinary too. If we think that an average work week is neatly packed into 40 hours, an entrepreneur may end up spending twice or maybe even three times that amount in trying to get their business off the ground...and there's constant pressure to keep on pushing forward. One success does not necessarily guarantee the next and so there's this cycle of continuing to push and to make forward strides create product extensions and to expand the brand footprint that is unrelenting. This is especially true if folks have lent you money to get your big idea off the ground.There's also a great degree of isolation that can emerge on the entrepreneurial path. You, and often you alone, are focused on birthing your brainchild, developing it and bringing it to market. This ‘child rearing’, if you will, often happens in times of extraordinary uncertainty and ambiguity. In the current state of the world we live in today, ambiguity is the name of the game. What with the pace of change exponentially increasing, government shifting the rules of the game with tariffs and regulations, funding cuts and banning more that 250 words that according to PEN AMERICA are no longer considered acceptable including:advocacy, abortion, all-inclusive, biologically female, community equity, DEI, female, inclusive, sex, sexuality, vulnerable populations, and woman or women, just to name a few. So if your big idea is squarely focused on women, menstruation and period products, I would imagine it’s tricky.So, this means that you have to be built for understanding the pace of change the ability to flex and move and be resilient when things don't happen to go your way. Like for example if you are launching a new product line and a COVID pandemic hits that effectively shuts your business down.You could stop and pack up shop and be done or you could be resilient and change direction asking ‘what do people need right now?, and turn what you thought was going to be a business into a completely different thing that was not at all what you had planned in the 1st place.As an entrepreneur, you also have to wear many hats. You are at the same time the company owner, marketing and sales rep. You're dealing with HR issues, product design and materials sourcing and assortment planning.You're often doing customer service and trying to keep them satisfied while dealing with shipments that go missing or supply chains that get disrupted, because of say tariffs, for example, when your products were coming from out of the country and all of a sudden now they are more expensive than you had anticipated.And you have to be good, I mean really good, at dealing with rejection and failure.Most entrepreneurs face repeated setbacks, investor rejections, failed launches or people who just don't get what you're trying to deliver - or straight out don't like what you're trying to deliver - and reject your product and actively work against you to shut you down.Resilience and a sense of purpose when faced with strong headwinds is an absolutely essential feature of being an entrepreneur.You want to become an entrepreneur? Then you had better show up at the game with a load of mad skills so that you can weather the multiple impending storms.Now… don't get me wrong, it's not all doom and gloom. It's not all uphill struggles like Sisyphus pushing a rock up a hill only to have it roll back down again.Entrepreneurship can be incredibly rewarding. It can bring something that you are passionate about into the world. Maybe it's something that had never existed before. Maybe it satisfies the need that is self-evident but others just haven't seen it yet. But to play in the arena of entrepreneurship you need to be able to recover from failures and keep moving forward regardless of whatever the setbacks were.Because they are inevitable.No one skates happily through entrepreneurship and starting a company without stuff just going off the rails from time to time. And that requires an amazing amount of intrinsic motivation and drive. You’ve got to be able to get up every morning and go get it. And you’ve got to be able to get up and do it without anyone behind you saying ‘go team go” pushing you to do it every single day.You might need an accountability buddy. That would be good.  But in the absence of that person or group, you need to be able to be incredibly disciplined and willing to get back in the ring every day.You also have to have a certain level of risk tolerance. In fact, I would say you probably have to have a very high level of risk tolerance. No one in the entrepreneurial world makes it by being a wallflower; by being risk adverse and not wanting to step out into traffic and navigate all of the oncoming traffic.And while dancing your way through the crosswalk in oncoming traffic, you have to be pretty flexible and be willing to pivot in an oftentimes volatile environment. You also have to believe in your vision and have a well-crafted strategy to get you to the top of the mountain.Successful entrepreneurs can generally see a much bigger picture than other people. They see opportunities where others simply see closed doors and that often means when hearing “no” you don’t implode like the Wicked Witch of the West when water was thrown on her, but you ask questions. Not just questions about ‘why?’ but also ‘why not?’.You have to be conspicuously curious and have a compulsion to keep on asking questions, never being satisfied with the status quo.Your interpersonal skills also have to be incredibly well honed. You have to be good at networking, slapping backs, shaking hands and making people feel like they're the only people in the room who matter to you. You've got to be good at networking and pitching and you have to be an incredibly good leader which suggests that you have to be an effective communicator and be emotionally tapped in. Your EQ, as well as your IQ, has to be highly tuned.You have to carry a certain level of confidence without being arrogant.You have to believe in your ideas while staying open to feedback; weeding out what is good commentary and bad commentary.…what allows you to maintain a connection to your brand story and the products or services you believe need to be brought to market while at the same time always finding a balance between taking in what people say as constructive criticism and dismissing other commentary that doesn't seem to fit or takes you off track and away from your vision.And all of this brings us to the story of Claire Coder who at 18 years old goes into a public bathroom at an event and discovers she started her period.In an effort to have period products that met her in her moment of need, she goes to a dispenser on the wall and discovers that in order to get a tampon or pad she has to have quarter and who really carries quarters around in their pocket anymore?  At that moment Claire is faced with accepting the only option available which is to go to the free roll of toilet paper on the bathroom stall and create a makeshift tampon.At that moment Claire decides that if toilet paper and paper towel are offered at no cost in public bathrooms why should tampons and pads cost $0.25.? and why is it that the box on the wall, that has likely been there for decades and that may likely not work in any case, an acceptable solution?Claire Coder was selected as one of Forbes 30under30 and is the 28-year-old founder and CEO of Aunt Flow. On a mission to make the world better for people with periods, Aunt Flow stocks public bathrooms with freely accessible tampons and pads. Through Claire’s leadership, Aunt Flow launched patented tampon & pad dispensers in 60k+ bathrooms, 150 universities, 600 schools, 28 Fortune 500 company’s offices and raised $17m+ in venture capital.After getting her period in public without the supplies she needed, at 18 years old, Claire dedicated her life to developing a solution to ensure businesses and schools can sustainably provide quality period products for free in public bathrooms.Since 2016, Aunt Flow has worked with thousands of businesses and schools, including organizations like Google, Princeton University, Netflix, and 30+ professional sports stadiums, to offer freely accessible period product dispensers, filled with organic cotton tampons and pads. Aunt Flow has donated over 7 million organic cotton tampons and pads to menstruators in need since 2021. Claire’s ultimate goal in life is for any menstruator to walk into any bathroom and never need to worry if they start their period, because Aunt Flow period products are freely available! Claire Coder was the opening keynote presenter at SHOP Marketplace 2025 and I caught up with her after her presentation to have a chat…ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. David also writes a popular blog called “Brain Food” which is published monthly on vmsd.com.  The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT CHARLES LEON:CHARLES' LINKEDIN PAGE: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chleon/COMPANY WEBSITE: charlesleon.uk CHARLES' BIO:Writer and Illustrator of Sketch Journals, including The Kew Sketch Journal. International Speaker and Trainer on the Creative Process and how Applied Innovation actually works. With more than 30 years experience in design, and an extensive knowledge of neuroscience and the working of the creative mind, I bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to helping Organisations and Individuals overcome Innovation Stagnation and achieve Creative Breakthrough.SHOW INTRO:Welcome to the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast.EPISODE 77… and my conversation with Charles Leon. On the podacast our dynamic dialogues based on our acronym DATA - design, architecture, technology, and the arts crosses over disciplines but maintains a common thread of people who are passionate about the world we live in and human’s influence on it, the ways we craft the built environment to maximize human experience, increasing our understanding of human behavior and searching for the New Possible.    he NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD Magazine part of the Smartwork Media family of brands.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing the discourse forward on what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.org On this episode I connect with Charles Leon who has 30 years experience in design, and an extensive knowledge of neuroscience and the working of the creative mind.We’ll get to all of that in a moment but first though, a few thoughts…                 *                                  *                                  *When I was nine years old my mom put me in a after school art program in a small little studio a few minutes walk from my school. Every Thursday afternoon, after my regular school classes were done, I would walk down the street, sit in an art studio and learn how to paint in oils. For the next 10 years this was a welcome change in my daily routine that became in some sense a safe place. A place where all the world's troubles or the typical challenges I was having as a teenager would disappear and I would spend a couple of hours focused on painting. My mom had recognized early on that I was pretty handy with a pencil and very interested in creative expression. She did her very best to make sure that I was continually engaged in creative processes whether it was doing Ukrainian Easter eggs or sketching and drawing or baking creative Christmas cookies.She was always there pushing the go button on creativity. As it turns out, she was actually a pretty good artist herself and later in her life she began doing decorative painting which she became exceptionally adept at and the house was full of wonderful pieces of her craftsmanship.My interest in art followed me through the first few years of high school and finally landing in a place where it was just time to decide where I was going to university and to which program I would go.My mom, recognized that I was firmly sitting on either side of the creative and scientific fence, 1 foot firmly in both worlds, and she suggested architecture since it seemed to combine both of my interests.While I was studying to be an architect I took every single drawing and painting course that I could possibly take, whether they were weekly freehand drawing studios or evening classes or sketching schools.These courses during my university years were a safe place there I had more confidence than in doing pretty much anything else.But it really wasn't until those years in university under the tutelage of a great art teacher Gerry Tondino that I really began to understand drawing and painting.It wasn't so much that I was learning technical aspects of drawing or painting but that I was more learning how to see rather than simply look at things.Gerry would say, ‘once you learn to see and draw what you actually se, rather than what ou think you see, the drawing takes care of itself.’I had deep respect for Gerry Tondino and I think I really finally learned how to deeply appreciate the world around me to see the color, texture and value relationships. To understand how objects exist within a context and it wasn't specifically the thing you   looking at but everything around it that helped to define its edge.In college I would continue to take afterschool watercolor courses thinking that it was more convenient than painting in oils since there was a technical challenge of oil painting taking much longer to dry.There was something about the immediacy of watercolor that I liked. You had to think fast and plan. Watercolor was the process of painting in the shade and shadows leaving the white of the paper as the light and highlights. In oils, or now acrylic which I use almost exclusively, you are starting from the dark tones and building in layers to bring out the light.In watercolor there was equally some unpredictability and a learned skill of being able to get certain effects like running a clean wash of graduated blue for a sky over a background or how some pigments we opaque and others transparent, or how colors would interact with each other as water spread across the paper.I was taking workshops once and the teacher said to me “well it's clear you can draw and you've got, you know, a good hand, but I guess the question really is what do you want to say with the work that you create”That was a whole different way of thinking that I'd never really spend time with prior to that moment. I painted and drew simply because it was fun.What did I want to say?...And so I began to think pretty significantly about what message I wanted to convey or rather what stories the things that I drew or painted I might want to share with other people.It was interesting when I began to study architecture and think about design of places and things that I was drawn to the same question about what the architecture meant and what stories it would hold over the years that people would use it.I was always fascinated with traveling and standing within old buildings and wondering what the people wore when they were visiting here hundreds of years ago.What would they talk about. What was the news of the day or the politics what secrets were being not told as people visited and who came and went from within a building’s walls.As I moved along my career, thinking about the stories that buildings would hold, it's perhaps not surprising that I somehow serendipitously end up in the world of brand experience place making,that the places that I would create for retailers would be imbued with a brand narrative and that somehow the buildings, stores or hotels would need to be able to demonstrate that subplot about who the intended user was, what their story was and how the place was a physical expression of both the person and the brand.Another experience while an architecture school was with a visiting professor and while I don't remember the exact project we were working on, I do remember her saying a phrase including the word “hodological”Hodological refers to the study of pathways or connections. It's used in fields of neuroscience sometimes thinking about the pathway and connections between neurons and synapses how signals move from one place to the other how information is shared across brain functional areas – In psychology it talks about things like paths in a person's life space and in the world of philosophy it might be considered to take in things like the interconnection between ideas a pathway between thought exercises and where one thought leads to another and what conclusions we might draw from that that decision making treein terms of geography it’s really is about actual paths, walking paths for example, connection paths between geographic locations thing like trade route pathsThe interesting thing about the word hodological is not just that all these years later I clearly recall that word but that it also seemed to me that the idea of ‘transition’ - moving from one place to the other - was very much a part of experience - that we don't stand still in buildings or public squares or on streets, we move and as we move, we naturally have a different experience at every moment.Sure, there's a gestalt experience of being in Times Square for example but every time we take a step our perspectival view of the context around us ends up changing and every moment technically speaking is also new,We're are clearly taking in some constants in sensory input but our point of view within that context ends up changing.I love this idea of walking through space and experiencing it differently with every step. Every step is a different vantage point to learn something new to see something from a different angle. In a broader sense, my fascination with the nature of change totally aligns with the idea the early -learned term – hodological.Pathways of change. Change through experience or experience through change. We may think that buildings don’t change, but they do, albeit in some cases slowly. And over their lifetime they may be experienced be multitudes each one leaving and taking away a story.Transitions are important. I might suggest that all the good stuff happens in the in betweenness of moments in time, places and things. Transitions are where learning lives.Transitions become important as experience makers. So, things like stairs become fascinating places for architectural study. It's not surprising that many of the great architects also spend time designing stairways so that transitions between floors were less about a practical matter of moving your body up to a different level, but could be seen as an opportunity to experience new things along the way. An experiential moment that requires the person’s commitment, to willingly give them self over to the idea of change. Cities have memories and our bodies have memories of cities. Buildings have memories and our bodies have memories of buildings.I have expressed before that I believe that there's very much a ‘give and make’ of experience - that we interact and share with the built environment around us and it affects us as well. We and the environments we spend time in are deeply connected and our experience lives within us, within our bodies, not just within our heads. Our experience of building leaves within us a body memory, a narrative residue of how we felt while in one place or another.If you look at buildings overtime and understand that they've been used for years, they too have held countless numbers of stories of people that used them. Where they came from. Where they would go back to. Maybe they were transitioning through for a moment. Maybe they were lost and ended up taking a wrong turn and discovering something new.Those stories of buildings are interesting because it gives a life to architecture beyond stone, steel and glass. And this is where my guest Charles Leon comes into the story. Charles is a writer and illustrator of Sketch Journals, including The Kew Sketch Journal. He is an international speaker and trainer on the Creative Process and how Applied Innovation actually works. With more than 30 years experience in design, and an extensive knowledge of neuroscience and the working of the creative mind, Charles brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to helping organizations and individuals overcome Innovation Stagnation to achieve Creative Breakthrough.During the COVID pandemic Charles had a challenge simply staying inside while all of us were held up in our homes for months. With sketchb  ook in hand, Charles saw London England as a hodological space – one to be experiences not in the scientific, objective and measurable sense of streets of a certain distance ad width, buildings of a certain height, pathways connecting purpose driven users or as seen from a 3d person sense but more in the Jean-Paul Satre sense aptly described in Satre’s essay, "Sketch for a Theory of Emotions," where his city was to be experienced in a lived-existential subjective sense. One in which he would travel daily, which sketchbook in hand, not always sure about the destination but certain that the path would be one of discovery, connection, and collecting through drawing and painting the memories of the buildings he encountered along the way.The output of these wanderings yielded 5 volumes in drawings and paintings of learnings about the buildings, their architectural details as well as the stories they revealed from within their walls…                 *                                  *                                  *ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. David also writes a popular blog called “Brain Food” which is published monthly on vmsd.com.  The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT NATALIA OLSZEWSKA:NATALIA'S LINKEDIN PAGE: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalia-olszewska/COMPANY WEBSITE: improntaspace.com EMAIL: gardener.natalia@gmail.comNATALIA'S BIO:Natalia is a versatile professional with a foundation in medicine and neuroscience, dedicated to applying neuroscientific principles to architectural design. She adeptly connects these two realms, striving to improve our built environment by making it more human-centered and conducive to well-being. Furthermore, Natalia is an accomplished researcher and practitioner in the field of neuroscience applied to architecture, specializing in evidence-based and neuroscience-informed design. She garnered invaluable experience during her tenure at Hume, a pioneering architectural and urban planning firm founded by Itai Palti, where she led the 'Human Metrics Lab.' Natalia lent her expertise to design projects for prestigious clients such as Arup, Skanska, HKS Architects, EDGE, the Association of Children's Museums, the Harvard University Center on the Developing Child, Google, as well as numerous individual clients.Her interdisciplinary approach transcends boundaries, allowing her to craft built environments that foster individual well-being across various dimensions - social, psychological, and cognitive. Natalia's co-founding role at IMPRONTA, a consultancy specializing in health and well-being design, underscores her commitment to leveraging neuroscience and applied sciences in architecture. Since 2020, she has also been contributing to the NAAD (Neuroscience Applied to Architecture) course at IUAV University in Venice.Natalia's educational journey is characterized by a distinctive blend of backgrounds, encompassing medicine from Jagiellonian University and Tor Vergata, neuroscience from UCL, ENS, Sorbonne, and neuroscience applied to architectural design from Università IUAV.SHOW INTRO:Welcome to the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast.EPISODE 76… and my conversation with Natalia Olszewska. On the podacast our dynamic dialogues based on our acronym DATA - design, architecture, technology, and the arts crosses over disciplines but maintains a common thread of people who are passionate about the world we live in and human’s influence on it, the ways we craft the built environment to maximize human experience, increasing our understanding of human behavior and searching for the New Possible.    The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD Magazine part of the Smartwork Media family of brands.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing the discourse forward on what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.orgOn this episode I connect with Natalia Olszewska is a versatile professional with a foundation in medicine and neuroscience, dedicated to applying neuroscientific principles to architectural design. We’ll get to all of that in a moment but first though, a few thoughts…                 *                                  *                                  *For a while now I have had a fascination with the connection between buildings and brains. While I loved psychology, and studied it before getting into architecture school, it occurred to me in the middle of the 20-teens that buildings, or the environments we design and build, have a direct effect on our psychology. There are places in which we feel good or bad or uneasy or exhilarated, or a sense of awe or agitation. There are places where we feel calm, and others that make me feel ill at ease. And all of those feelings have a body sense to them as well. Heart rises or decreases. I sweat more or less. My chest feels tight or relaxed.  Cortisol, adrenaline, norepinephrine, serotonin, dopamine, and other neurochemicals and hormones are released and coursing through my body as I experience places. And many of these hormones and neurochemicals being released into my blood stream I have little control over. My brain-body reacts to environmental stimuli and biochemistry does its thing.Buildings may make me feel certain way, induce certain emotions, that we may think are just about your thoughts, brain activity, but at the core, our body too is in a relationship with conditions in the environment.We feel architecture with our bodies, we don’t just intellectually experience them in our heads. The experience of buildings, and our emotional reactions to them, is as much a ‘bottom-up process’ - our body’s sensory processes taking in stimuli from the environment - as a ‘top-down’ process – our brains processing that sensory information and making decisions about who we should behave in response to them.Our bodies and brains are in continual dialogue with the world around us. In fact, through a process of neuro plasticity, our brains are wired partly in response to our experiences. Yes we are hard wired through our millions of years of evolution to have what we consider innate responses to the environment and then there are those neuronal connections that area direct result of experiences in the here and now. As you listen to this podcast, your brain is creating new wiring shaping the neural pathways that allow for learning and behaviors.And as we repeatedly experience something, those pathways are reinforced facilitating understanding. Those pathways recognize patterns in our experiences, and they are codified so that when we experience them again our brains are not continually trying to decipher every element anew. If it weren’t for our brain’s ability of recognize patterns and anomalies in them, we would live a life of extreme ground hog day and would likely be immobilized with the processing necessary to analyze every element we encounter every moment of every day. Over millions of years some of these patterns have become deeply ingrained in our neurobiology. They are part of our brain structures that allow us to react instinctually. You might say that some of them operate ‘below the radar’ of our conscious awareness. But because they are not front row center in our awareness doesn’t mean that they don’t have an influence of our mindbody state.Colors, lighting, materials, geometries, visual patterns and spatial arrangements, to name of few, have an effect on us. We might not necessarily pay attention to these elements of our environment as we move through it, but they have an effect on us. We may not consciously feel the influence of these things, but the effects are there, nevertheless. Acute angles, loud sounds, bright fluorescent lights, certain colors and texture patterns, repetitive and banal patterns, things devoid of detail and out of scale with our human body all have an effect on our sense of well-being. University of Waterloo cognitive neuroscientist Colin Ellard has worked for more than three decades in the application of psychology and neuroscience to architectural and urban design. His work illustrates the impact of ‘boring buildings’ on how we feel and our sense health and well-being. We humans, it turns out, function and feel better in environments of physical and visual intricacy. We seek our variety and complexity, layered environments that pique our curiosity and sense of intrigue. And yet…far too many of our built environments at simply banal.Ellard says the  - “The holy grail in urban design is to produce some kind of novelty or change every few seconds,” “Otherwise, we become cognitively disengaged.”Imagine for a moment what is happening inside our mind-bodies when we live 8 + hours in a sea of detail-less white cubicles under a blanked of fluorescent lights. We might think this is an efficient office space, but we are creating brain numbing environments and at the same time asking people to reach optimal performance in the workplace. We may wish hotels guests a good night sleep on a heavenly bed and then we fill the room with light that completely counteracts the production of melatonin telling our brain that it is still daytime and to stay alert.And… we have built city block after city block of repetitive, banality. Efficient to build, very economical yes, but a boredom inducer for the brain.Now this doesn’t mean that every environment needs to be a rollercoaster for the senses nor be pristine and bucolic. In fact, some environments are better because they are well…messier. Charles Montgomery, author of Happy City: Transforming Our Lives Through Urban Design suggest that successful design is about “shaping emotional infrastructure.” Montgomery argues that some of the happier blocks in New York are “kind of ugly and messy.” The energy of New York can be both energizing and exhausting.It would be perhaps unfair to heap the responsibility for inhabitants’ psychological and physical well-being entirely on buildings but given that we now spend the overwhelming proportion of our days enclosed in them, it stands to reason that they have a clear effect on how we feel. For whatever it’s worth, Aarhus, Denmark is the world’s happiest city, according to the London-based Institute for Quality of Life’s 2024 Happy City Index. The Institute for the Quality of Life identified five categories it believes have the most direct impact on happiness, including citizens, governance, economy, mobility and environment.Based on these factors, Aarhus, Denmark, achieved the highest score, particularly excelling in governance and the environment. I think Copenhagen also held the title at some point I believe due to its building stock being human scale, detailed and varied engendering intrigue and visual delight.And this is where this episode’s guest Natalia Olszewska comes into the story.Natalia went to medical school but always had a fascination with architecture. When on a trip to the Venice Biennale it clicked for her that she could combine both of these interests considering that neuroscience could be linked to how buildings make us feel.The rest as they say is history…Natalia adeptly connects these two realms, striving to improve our built environment by making it more human-centered and conducive to well-being. Natalia is an accomplished researcher and practitioner in the field of neuroscience applied to architecture, specializing in evidence-based and neuroscience-informed design.Her interdisciplinary approach transcends boundaries, allowing her to craft built environments that foster individual well-being across various dimensions - social, psychological, and cognitive. Natalia’s co-founding role at IMPRONTA, a consultancy specializing in health and well-being design, underscores her commitment to leveraging neuroscience and applied sciences in architecture. Since 2020, she has also been contributing to the NAAD (Neuroscience Applied to Architecture) course at IUAV University in Venice a city that is most definitely not boring…                 *                                  *                                  *ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. David also writes a popular blog called “Brain Food” which is published monthly on vmsd.com. The next level experience design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.

ABOUT LOUISA WHITMORE:TIK TOK: LOUISA'S BIO:Louisa Whitmore is an architecture content creator on TikTok with over 350K followers, as well as the host of the cable television documentary series “The Nature of Design.” A former commentator for the USModernist podcast, Whitmore has also worked as a live radio host and PSA producer at CHMA 106.9FM, the local radio station at Mount Allison University, where she’s currently an honors student studying international relations and French. She enjoys telling stories, and is passionate about sustainable design.SHOW INTRO:Welcome to the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast.EPISODE 75… and my conversation with Louisa Whitmore. On the podacast our dynamic dialogues based on our acronym DATA - design, architecture, technology, and the arts crosses over disciplines but maintains a common thread of people who are passionate about the world we live in and human’s influence on it, the ways we craft the built environment to maximize human experience, increasing our understanding of human behavior and searching for the New Possible.    he NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD Magazine part of the Smartwork Media family of brands.VMSD brings us, in the brand experience world, the International Retail Design Conference. The IRDC is one of the best retail design conferences that there is bringing together the world of retailers, brands and experience place makers every year for two days of engaging conversations and pushing the discourse forward on what makes retailing relevant. You will find the archive of the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast on VMSD.com.Thanks also goes to Shop Association the only global retail trade association dedicated to elevating the in-store experience. SHOP Association represents companies and affiliates from 25 countries and brings value to their members through research, networking, education, events and awards. Check then out on SHOPAssociation.orgLouisa Whitmore is a TikTok creator phenom whose content is about architecture. With almost 400 thousand followers her no holds-barred, straight from the heart and to the point commentary about the buildings she loves and loves to hate, brings a user experience point of view and accessible critique into the mainstream.We’ll get to all of that in a moment but first though, a few thoughts…                  *                                  *                                  *The great thing about doing this podcast is it gives me an opportunity to rethink some of the assertions that have held to be true and cross check whether in fact they are immutable or whether there is room for challenging myself and maybe digging into some subtleties and nuances… and seeing things a different way.Like for example the idea of criticism – who does it and its value…I have to admit I haven't been particularly fond of the idea of critics for a very long time. This would be generally true of the kind who dole out the negative kind of commentary.Years ago when commenting on something, I think it was some art piece, and my son said to me “…dad why is it that you never really say you hate anything…”which I sort of thought was kind of funny then. I think I responded “…well because I don't really hate anything… I try to always view things from the other side - a different point of view. I try to get beyond the visceral reaction and look to design principles and comment from a place of applying principles to the work and see how they line up…and then make a comment that is based yes on whether I simply like it, the colors, shapes, energy, feeling , may be a message it is trying to impart AND  whether I can see the value in it based on principles determined to be generally accepted by experts in the domain…” so yeah I don’t really hate things…If I apply the idea of casting judgement on art, music, architecture… it got me thinking… again…What is the value of judgement? Is it to determine the appropriateness of something to a particular context or challenge?I have my favorite architects and artists and musical performers, I like different styles and periods. But I don’t listen to heavy metal (though my sons love it). I don’t know that I can say that I hate it. Perhaps I just don’t understand it and maybe if I did, it still wouldn’t jibe with me.It just doesn’t go in my body well. It’s a sensory mismatch.I don’t hate it – It makes me agitated. So, I just don’t listen to it. And I guess you could say the same thing for certain genres of art.For example… I'm not particularly crazy about a lot of contemporary art.I have a hard time understanding a performance artist dipping her hair in paint and swinging aloft from a rope while her hair drags across a canvas and the painting while on lookers wrapped in dimly lit light bulbs stand slightly by  selling for millions of dollars… it isn't something I quite get. And I know that authorized replicas of the Marcel Duchamp sculpture called the “Fountain” - which is a urinal - sell for somewhere between 3 and $4 million each and here's the kicker... apparently because the original has been lost the financial the value of the original piece is unknown and might be considered as being priceless. I don't know… it sort of leaves me just trying too hard... knowing I'm falling profoundly short of ascending to the intellectualized rarefied air that somehow makes this sort of thing makes sense. And I also suspect that if I'm voicing these concerns or questions that I am likely to get a lot of people commenting that my remarks point out my ignorance, that I just don't understand and I would …well…agree with them.I’m ok with that. Really.And I think I'm not alone in this category of not understanding contemporary art and the extraordinary prices that contemporary art paintings fetch at auctions and then again maybe if I did, I still wouldn't spend $25 million on a Rothko painting.The thing about critics, I think, is that we entrust these individuals with being in the know, of having deep insight, knowledge or experience into the making of the art. That these are people who understand its value and relevancy to culture and somehow able to unfold the deep meaning in the work whatever format the creativity comes in and to bestow upon us their opinion as if it is fact.The challenge of course is that I think there may be an ignorance in the public and that the deeper inner meaning of things is somehow held in reserve for the creators of the work or select few who follow it.But I've always had a challenge with the idea that the critic seems to have the extraordinary power to completely destroy the creative work as well as raise it to high levels of adulation and praise.I think that in some ways we have come to trust to the critic as certainly knowing more than we do and therefore what they say about a particular piece of art or architecture should be taken as truth and the presumed value of the creation lies in whether their commentary is positive or negative.How many people have not gone to see a movie because it only got 2 stars… and who said it should only have two stars?Maybe I would have found the comedy hilarious… but not the critic.I often don't even check reviews by the masses on restaurant or hotel booking sites and if I do read the reviews, I do it very carefully. I look to see what it was that these people did or didn't like. What it was that made their experience a must see or a definite red tomato. Personally, I dig to see if there is anything at a lower level that suggests what was driving the positive or negative review? What it was in this message that this particular critic is trying to convey?I've often thought that to be able to criticize art or other forms of creative invention you'd have to understand what it was the maker was intending to convey.You'd have to understand the basic ideas, for example, of composition to be able to determine whether a Jackson Pollock or a Kandinsky or a Basquiat was worth all the fuss and on what basis you were making the comments about the work.I guess it’s not all critics that I have a problem with but maybe more those who simply present negative opinions. And it’s not like I should even care that critic X didn’t like thing Y. It was their opinion. Okay so they have an opinion. The challenge is the uninformed may come to accept the opinion as fact and turn away from somethings simply because some one says its not good.I guess the role of the professional critic is to study and assess the value of a creative work and pass judgment on the product based on facts and logical assertions. This is kind of like knowing a bit about composition before offering an opinion the write something off.It seems to me that the idea of a critic is to connect ideas, arrive at reasonable conclusions and perhaps open avenues for discussing new directions and fostering an awareness of ideas and cultural trends.It also seems to me that the role of the critic is to challenge our general assumptions about things to get us to look more deeply at our assertions and to get us to not simply accept things at face value but to continue to search for excellence, challenge the status quo, in all of the things that we bring into the world so that we don't fill it with the mundane or banal.There's something about the critic as ‘educator’ - increasing our collective level of understanding of things, pointing out where things might likely be improved and offering positive commentary on what might be a series of next steps in order to develop the output and make it better - that I align with.And I know that the idea of making it ‘better’ is full of all manner of subtext and necessity to consider contextual considerations… ‘better’ for whom, for what and why?And maybe this is where I mostly land on the idea of the value of the critique is that of using constructive criticism for the value of enhancing people's understanding of a particular subject or giving the creator tools to go back to the drawing board, so to speak, and make it better.Jazz master saxophonist David Liebman wrote a concise piece on his website called “The Critic Dilemma: Criticism vs. Review”. He describes many of the same ideas about who’s making he comments, are they objective facts or subjective opinions, and why should we trust one critic’s opinion over another? Liebman differentiates between critique and a review:“…When the writer’s opinion and taste is the focal point, this constitutes a critique. On the other hand, a review should be the dissemination of information with the desired intention being elucidation. The idea is that with this information, the listener is equipped to form his own opinion…”.And this is where this episode’s guest Louisa Whitmore begins to fit into the story.When Louisa was 16 years old she began to share architecture commentary on Tik Tok. She blew up the social media sphere with posts that were personal and occasionally pointed. She came at her critiques of buildings not from the expert or architectural practioner point of view but from that of the user, the general public mindset.She didn’t profess to be a building expert, to have deep knowledge in construction but rather to simply be part of the general public who experienced the built environment every day but who had little to nothing to do with how buildings got there in the first place.Her negative commentary on 432 Park Avenue - the luxury condo building designed by Rafael Viñoly and SLCE Architects – lit up the digisphere with 100s of thousands of followers lining up behind her to voice their impressions of this building. Most of them not very good I might add. Which was actually ok since there was a ton of press – not particularly good I might add – about problems with the building. Now, Louisa didn’t know about these issues about the engineering, the building swaying (which would be natural by the way) and other problems but felt vindicated nevertheless with the press that effectively substantiated her intuitive feelings about this super-tall condo on the Central Park’s edge.I see her posts more like David Leibman’s construct of the ‘Review’ – “…that with this information, the listener is equipped to form his own opinion…”.And opinions her followers had. 1000’s of them.In the spirit of “…the dissemination of information with the desired intention being elucidation…” Whitmore turned her attention to projects thatfocused on Biophilia and how buildings with ample integration of plants seemed to simply feel better. Her noteriaty on Tik Tok, articulate whit, intuition and ability to articulate the ‘person on the street’s’ perception of the built environment, landed her the role as host of “the cable television documentary series “The Nature of Design”.Over the course of a number of episodes Whitmore tours properties talking about biophilic principles and with the support of a variety of experts ranging from architects to neuroscientists she dives into the science of how buildings with a biophilic approach effect our well-being…Whitmore is called a teenage architecture critic. While her rise on social media platforms may have been based on the building she loved to hate, it seems that she is using her notoriety to review and elucidate…. ABOUT DAVID KEPRON:LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/david-kepron-9a1582bWebsites:  https://www.davidkepron.com    (personal website)vmsd.com/taxonomy/term/8645  (Blog)Email: david.kepron@NXTLVLexperiencedesign.comTwitter: DavidKepronPersonal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidkepron/NXTLVL Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nxtlvl_experience_design/Bio:David Kepron is a multifaceted creative professional with a deep curiosity to understand ‘why’, ‘what’s now’ and ‘what’s next’. He brings together his background as an architect, artist, educator, author, podcast host and builder to the making of meaningful and empathically-focused, community-centric customer connections at brand experience places around the globe. David is a former VP - Global Design Strategies at Marriott International. While at Marriott, his focus was on the creation of compelling customer experiences within Marriott’s “Premium Distinctive” segment which included: Westin, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Autograph Collection, Tribute Portfolio, Design Hotels and Gaylord hotels. In 2020 Kepron founded NXTLVL Experience Design, a strategy and design consultancy, where he combines his multidisciplinary approach to the creation of relevant brand engagements with his passion for social and cultural anthropology, neuroscience and emerging digital technologies. As a frequently requested international speaker at corporate events and international conferences focusing on CX, digital transformation, retail, hospitality, emerging technology, David shares his expertise on subjects ranging from consumer behaviors and trends, brain science and buying behavior, store design and visual merchandising, hotel design and strategy as well as creativity and innovation. In his talks, David shares visionary ideas on how brand strategy, brain science and emerging technologies are changing guest expectations about relationships they want to have with brands and how companies can remain relevant in a digitally enabled marketplace. David currently shares his experience and insight on various industry boards including: VMSD magazine’s Editorial Advisory Board, the Interactive Customer Experience Association, Sign Research Foundation’s Program Committee as well as the Center For Retail Transformation at George Mason University.He has held teaching positions at New York’s Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.), the Department of Architecture & Interior Design of Drexel University in Philadelphia, the Laboratory Institute of Merchandising (L.I.M.) in New York, the International Academy of Merchandising and Design in Montreal and he served as the Director of the Visual Merchandising Department at LaSalle International Fashion School (L.I.F.S.) in Singapore.  In 2014 Kepron published his first book titled: “Retail (r)Evolution: Why Creating Right-Brain Stores Will Shape the Future of Shopping in a Digitally Driven World” and he is currently working on his second book to be published soon. David also writes a popular blog called “Brain Food” which is published monthly on vmsd.com. The next level experience design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too. The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.