Future Commerce

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Thank you for being with us for 200 episodes of the Future Commerce podcast. In this episode, we look back on how we grew up from a podcast into a retail media research startup, and how building a show in 2016 led to personal and professional growth. Listen now!2016 to PresentWe launched in 2016. Our first guest was Scott Emmons and we talked about the online to offline blur in retail businesses. Every episode has been transcribed at FutureCommerce.fm. Everything we have said is searchable. “Technology adoption is always slower than you want it to be. You see potentials, you see opportunity, but it’s not really about the technology. It’s about people adopting the technology and how people use [it].” - Brian LangeIn 2018, we picked up on the coming boom in secondhand retail or “secondhand commerce.”Through 2016-2018, we had a trajectory of doing live events - eTail West, NRF, Shoptalk.On Ingrid Milman Cordy’s impact on Future Commerce: “Prior to 2019, we didn’t have consistent other voices, specifically women’s voices or younger perspectives to help us understand what other people’s points of view are and what their challenges [were].”This fed into our listener study in which we realized the future we wanted to create, a future with more equal representation: “How do we tell different stories through other people’s perspectives?” On Earth Day in 2019, we joined the Climate Neutral program and we’ve maintained the commitment for the past three years. “Most of the future of commerce is just getting data right, understanding how to interpret it, understanding when and where to surface it, understanding if it’s clean or it’s not, understanding how to get it to the point where it’s usable and actionable and has a reason to exist that is meaningful.” - Brian LangeOur most listened to episode ever (Episode 124 with Nick and Emmett from Pattern Brands) was in a pivotal moment - realizing that it’s “not just about creating things in the world, but about being able to create the world that you want to live in.” - Phillip JacksonIt was this pivot that it clicked for us that commerce has the power to change the world because it touches just about everything.In 2019, we partnered with Shopify to create a new series, Step by Step, in walking through what’s needed to know to launch and grow successful retail businesses. In 2020, we put out four reports, forty eight essays, started Stairway to CEO, and launched two newsletters.“If you had asked me in 2016 what Future Commerce was, I would have said a podcast. If you ask me in 2021 what Future commerce is, I would say we’re a media business that covers retail. We believe that we have the power with our voice to exert influence on the way that commerce is done in the world and that commerce can change the world.” - Phillip JacksonPast Episodes(7:44) Episode 53: “If god is consumerism, malls were certainly our temples. Our religion is now changing where our temple is now the internet.”(9:56) Episode 49 with Danny Sepulveda: “There is no differentiator between what we used to call the Internet economy and the regular economy. It’s just the digital economy.”(16:04) Episode 63: Deep Fakes(18:48) Episode 70: “These products take on a sort of life of their own and amplify the brand in secondary markets more than the brand could do on its own in direct to consumer.”(21:52) Episode 95 with Ingrid Milman Cordy: “Don’t buy a Lamborghini if you haven’t built the road yet.”(28:28) Episode 103 with Rachel Swanson: “You want people to feel obviously the content is relevant, but four out of five actually said that Future Commerce introduces them to new concepts and platforms that [they] wouldn’t have discovered otherwise.” (37:17) Episode 124 with Nick & Emmett from Pattern Brands: “I don’t think we’re selling a product. I think we’re selling a way to use your time.” - Nicholas Ling(41:50) Episode 132 with Matt Taylor(45:12) Season 1 of Step by Step(47:08) Episode 138 with Audrey McLoghlin: “I wanted to be able to launch a brand that speaks to what’s going on today and speaks to the customer that we would want to speak to.” (49:24) Stairway to CEO with Lee GreeneIf you have any comments or questions about this episode, you can reach out to us at hello@futurecommerce.fm or any of our social channels. We love hearing from our listeners!

This week, Ingrid joins Phillip & Brain to talk about her impressive baby registry, different mommy personas, and how monoculture is affecting their kids.Instacart for CMOs and PodcastsIngrid helped contribute to Kiri’s new book: “The power that Instacart unlocks has never really been in the hands of retailers or brands. In the year 2020, it has gotten significantly more advanced in the ways we’re able to actually market to a new consumer.” - Ingrid “I think to stand out in podcasting is the same challenge to stand out in the brand world… it’s all suffering from the same challenge, which is there’s too much of it.” - Phillip Jackson“Discoverability is so hard that having this one kitschy thing is a way to stand out. I don’t know if it’s the way to stand out forever and be durable, but it certainly grabs people’s attention.” - Phillip JacksonPandemic Pregnancy and the Enthusiast Economy Ingrid is pregnant and has dug into research and registries. “[Being pregnant] is sort of the ultimate enthusiast economy because once you have your baby, there’s no going back. You become an enthusiast.” - BrianIngrid goes into different types of moms: the sustainable minimalist eco mom, the boujee mom, and the Target mom - all of which have marketing geared towards them.Ingrid explains her own choice anxiety, giving the differences between her detailed registry versus a friend’s simplified, non-brand specific registry. Monoculture has died. In reference to children: “The only things that are relevant are the things that are influencing them at this exact moment.” - Phillip JacksonLinksCheck out Kiri Master’s new book Instacart for CMOs on Amazon and listen to our latest episode with Kiri. Check out our newest report, Vision 2021. If you have any comments or questions about this episode, you can reach out to us at hello@futurecommerce.fm or any of our social channels. We love hearing from our listeners!

The Instacart Paradox can easily confuse brands and advertisers. Instacart is part marketplace, part last-mile delivery, part advertising space, and yet not fully any of these all at the same time. Kiri Masters joins the pod to explain Instacart and how brands can leverage Instacart as a marketing strategy.Instacart for CMOsKiri just wrote a new book called “Instacart for CMOs.”“There wasn’t as much written about Instacart as there was about other retail marketplaces and there’s a huge thirst for information from brands.” - Kiri MastersThis book is a comprehensive guide on how to approach Instacart and how to understand it for your business.Fulfillment and ROI“[Instacart] doesn’t quite fit the definition of a delivery app and it doesn't quite fit the definition of a marketplace.” - Kiri MastersInstacart isn’t a traditional two-party marketplace, but a four-sided marketplace—the retailer, the in-store shopper, the delivery gig-worker, and the brands that advertise via Instacart.Delivery is a complex issue for businesses in making them profitable. Kiri suggests that fulfillment as a service is a new business model and Amazon is way ahead. Other retailers need their own infrastructure, but are far behind.Instacart is better positioned for the long-term because grocers, for example, are in the grocery business—not the innovation, technology, logistics, and fulfillment business.10 out of the 10 clients assessed for the book said that Instacart is their highest ROI on ad auctions.Repurchasing is 20-25 percent of shopping activity and Instacart helps drive this by setting up its UI to recommend previously ordered product to its customers again and again.The Instacart Paradox and the Complexity of Ad NetworksInstacart offers great ROI for an advertiser and the demand is there. However, there’s a lack of control over the availability, the content, and the pricing.For example, if a certain geography is out of a certain product because of a retailer’s inventory, a competitor could win those advertising bids.Ad investments are fractionalized across many platforms, so in order for brands to build their own infrastructure, a lot of work would have to be done to bring in-house skill and capabilities to the table.LinksFind Kiri’s new book Instacart for CMOs, written with Stefan Jordev. If you have any comments or questions about this episode, you can reach out to us at hello@futurecommerce.fm or any of our social channels. We love hearing from our listeners!

The Instacart Paradox can easily confuse brands and advertisers. Instacart is part marketplace, part last-mile delivery, part advertising space, and yet not fully any of these all at the same time. Kiri Masters joins the pod to explain Instacart & how brands can leverage Instacart as a marketing strategy.

Dapper Labs gets a $2B valuation so it's high time we break down NFTs and relate it back to themes from our Vision report. Listen now!

What Are Blands? What are Dazzle Brands? What are Adorkables?“Blands are the identikit army of disruptive direct to consumer startups.” - Ben SchottBlands are DTC brands that all have a neutral and friendly aesthetic, who claim to be unique, but are all the same in terms of their identikit formula, business model, and tone of voice.In WWI, a british artist created a new form of Marine camouflage called Dazzle Painting, which didn’t aim to make anything hidden, but to make it difficult to target.Ben correlates this to brands that distract consumers: persuading consumers that bad is good (potato chips), that good is bad (margarine), or bad is bad (Death Cigarettes).“Adorkables are a growing gang of disruptive brands that definitely target Gen Z with a jarring, visual aesthetic and authentic emotional appeal.” - Ben Schott“While Blands seduce millenials with an ever receding notion of self-actualization, Adorkables double down on Gen Z’s internal conflict between self-consciousness and self-promotion.” - Ben SchottPunks and Posers of Gen ZBen theorizes that big brands will absorb the culture of Gen Z brands: “That’s exactly what big brands do. They look for the marginal edge trends and they devour them.”In much of the way that punk rock killed disco deliberately, Ben wonders how much Gen Z is faking its aesthetic - because Gen Z brands are naturally ‘rebellious,’ but are run by the establishment.There’s a dissonance between the target market of CARLY (Can’t Afford Real Life Yet) brands and the actual price point of those brands - which moreso matches HENRY (High Earner Not Rich Yet) brands.Gen Z has a link with impermanence - renting, subscription services vs. buying products directly, etc. This impermanence “changes your attitude towards saving, towards money… [it becomes] about experiences… That instant surge gratification you get from consumption, that then leaves you empty. By that stage, it’s time to consume again.” - Ben SchottOn a positive note: “Experiences are very important. It’s not just pure consumption, but it’s about living in the moment.” - Ben SchottLinksFind Ben Schott on Bloomberg!Read Ben’s recent article, “Generation Z, You’re Adorkable,” on Bloomberg. If you have any comments or questions about this episode, you can reach out to us at hello@futurecommerce.fm or any of our social channels. We love hearing from our listeners!

Adam Siegel, founder of Recurate, joins the show to chat about how Recurate is promoting retained sustainability through peer to peer resale.The Birth of Recurate and Branded ResaleAdam spent over eight years at RILA, the Retail Industry Leaders Association, leading their sustainability and ethical production program and eventually leading the association's first innovation and emerging technology function, now known as RILA’s Retail Innovation Center.Coming from his background in sustainability, Adam wanted to start something of his own and noticed the theme of circular economies—particularly the rental economy and the resale economy.“There are some other niche communities that have grown up like Stock X and Grailed and GOAT that have proven that second-hand products in some cases even have more value than first-hand products.” - Adam SiegelAdam noticed that once products were bought directly from a brand, the brand lost track of consumers through resale. Recurate started what they call “branded resale,” which brings the benefits of resale directly back to the brands that originally made those products.Benefit to All: Buyer, Seller, and BrandBuyers/Consumers of products are able to directly see their purchase history through their brand and are able to directly re-sell that item back to the brand they originally bought it from.This avoids third-party marketplaces that don’t know much about the item and relists the item for sale with original imagery, description, materials, etc.“Consumers are looking for higher quality items that retain their value over time.” - Adam SiegelBrands benefit by accessing data of their product after it’s out of the marketplace: data like how long their consumers hold their product, how many uses they’re getting, resale value, and more.How Recurate WorksRecurate is a scalable model because it is relatively low-cost.Items are directly sent back from the consumer to their original brand, not to Recurate.In order to keep the peer-to-peer quality uniform, Recurate’s first checkbox is to link consumers with their brands only via their direct purchase history with that brand and product.The next step is withholding payment to that seller until the item is delivered and the brand confirms the condition of the item.Brands can implement their own options, but so far, brands have given 100% of the sale price to sellers if they choose in-store credit or 70-80% if the seller wants cash.Apparel has been the focus of Recurate so far, but they have had early adopters in luxury footwear, denim, handbags, travel gear, outdoor gear, and sporting gear, and they are interested in expanding to kids toys and consumer electronics.Brands like REI, Patagonia, and Eileen Fisher already care about sustainability, circularity, and long-lasting products as brands. Recurate is trying to create a new model of brand resale that is more cost-effective and scalable for other businesses.Final Thoughts“There are certainly negative ways that you can groom people in this world, especially in consumerism. Why not encourage and incentivize people to do something that’s actually really good for the world? I think that using Recurate as a platform on which to build consumer and customer loyalty, and maybe even lifetime value, with something that’s inherently better for the planet… I love that.” - Adam SiegelAdam’s hope is that this will minimize discounting of new products because brands more closely understand the demand for products, first-hand and second-hand: “Our hope is that [Recurate] affects more than just the resale market itself, but the broader buying patterns of retailers and brands.”LinksCheck our our Vision 2021 report, which features Recurate!Find Recurate on their website. If you have any comments or questions about this episode, you can reach out to us at hello@futurecommerce.fm or any of our social channels. We love hearing from our listeners!

Jeff Bezos Steps Down & Starting SmallWhen Tim Cook took over at Apple, nobody knew who Tim Cook was and now he’s a household name. Andy Jassy will experience the same.Jeff Bezos started small with Amazon—by selling books. Marc Lore started small with Diapers.com—by selling a diaper. Now he’s building “a city of the future.” We have a new Insiders piece about this.Lean Luxe put out an email recently that mentioned Monocle’s “Digital Decency Manifesto” which was a better take of our Late Stage Retail where we toyed with the idea of a ‘consumer’s Bill of Rights.” This article also mentioned an Air Mail article about self documentaries.These “Me-Documentaries” started small—with Facebook and documenting our lives in a deeper way. Brian finds this both narcissistic and compelling: “I expect that we’re all headed towards having our own documentaries at some point.”StoryCorps has created kiosks to dive into stories with family members. Someone created a tech service that sends prompts to someone in order to compile a book that helps them to tell their story.Post-Truth SocietyThis documenting of life can lead to narcissism, but it could also lead to untruth—for example, making an AI chat bot from communications with a lost loved one to be able to cope with their loss.“Effectively, you can memorialize someone in such a way that even death itself can be post-truth.” - Phillip JacksonIn our new report, Vision 2021, we discuss some of these topics of post-truth: digital dysmorphia, the selfie industrial complex, and other trends in the future of consumerism.GameStop, the New Occupy Wall Street, and the Dark Before the DawnLinking back to our Vision report, GameStop became a brand as performance art. “It wasn’t the brands themselves that were doing it, but they became the performance art because we made them so.” - Brian LangeThis feeds into our new culture of cynicism where we’re not actually reckoning with real issues and problems. What happened with GameStop stocks, AMC stocks, and others is a cynical rebellion.People often fret over automation and technical innovation posing a threat in the job market, but we’re watching this take place digitally during this pandemic. A lot of retail is being consolidated into more powerful hands. GameStop, for example, is a retailer of products that are now increasingly going digital and subscription-based.This is all leading to a consolidation, an oligarchy/oligopoly of brands, which we talk about in our “Changing of the Guard” Insiders piece.On a positive note: in times of adversity, real innovation happens. The next Amazon, Google, Apple, is being born during this time. All of the tools needed are easily available for this to happen.LinksCheck out Insiders #071: “The Changing of the Guard Signals a Coming Post-Innovation Age”Check out Lean Luxe’s newsletter and it’s mention of Monocle’s “Digital Decency Manifesto” and Air Mail’s article: “Me-Documentaries are the New Status Symbol.”Check out our new report, Vision 2021, and sign up for our newsletter to be the first to be notified of new reports! If you have any comments or questions about this episode, you can reach out to us at hello@futurecommerce.fm or any of our social channels. We love hearing from our listeners!

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