The Zeitcast with Jonathan Martin

As DePauw’s historic Mendenhall lecture comes from within the Christian tradition, we believe this is a crucial time for faith communities to reflect critically about how theology shapes the way we actually live in the world. This one-night symposium will explore the phenomenon of Christian nationalism, particularly in American history and culture. Some of the questions we will consider include: How is Christian nationalism defined and invoked in our public discourse? What is the role of Christian nationalism in public life and polity right now (deep into an election year)? Is Christian nationalism primarily a theological identity, or a political one? How does Christian nationalism challenge the ideal of pluralistic democracy? How are people drawn to Christian nationalism, and how do those who are not talk across the divide? How do questions of race and ethnicity factor into the conversation? Andre Henry is an award-winning singer-songwriter, the bestselling author of All the White Friends I Couldn’t Keep, a trusted global voice on nonviolent struggle for social progress, a creative truthteller, and a “tomorrow-maker.” Brian Zahnd is the founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri; and the author of eleven books, including Sinners In the Hands of a Loving God, When Everything’s on Fire, and The Wood Between the Worlds. Pamela Cooper-White, MDiv, PhD, LCPC is the Christiane Brooks Johnson Professor Emerita of Psychology and Religion and Dean Emerita, Union Theological Seminary, New York, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of New York, and a licensed psychotherapist. She is an award-winning author, most recently of The Psychology of Christian Nationalism: Why People Are Drawn In and How to Talk Across the Divide. Andrew L. Whitehead, PhD, is an Associate Professor of Sociology and Director of the Association of Religion Data Archives at the Center for the Study of Religion and American Culture at IUPUI, and one of the foremost scholars of Christian nationalism in the United States. He is the author of American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel and Threatens the Church, and lead author of Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States—along with Samuel Perry. is an associate professor of sociology and co-director of the Association of Religion Data Archives.

A cheeky title...a life-changing conversation, between an Imam and a Pastor on virtually everything that matters.

I'll tell you what I truly do believe: absolutely everything around you and in you can change, in just 40 days.

At the intersection of love and death...the formal start of our Lenten series, "you can do anything for 40 days."

It's not just showing us about how Jesus the man is divine...this is the revelation for us of what it is to be human.

An invitation to come out of the storm, into the rhythms that sustain your soul...into a deeper, more authentic way of living.

Ben Katt discusses his beautiful new book, 'The Way Home.' We talk about his experiences of mystical moments, the importance of paying attention to them, and the universal aspects of the journey to wholeness--including the excruciating but necessary path of death and resurrection.

Instantly one of our favorite all-time podcasts, our daughter Kaitlyn comes on for a vulnerable, far-reaching conversation about everything from pageants to the highs and lows of her experience with Christian school in Oklahoma, her passion for women's incarceration issues, and navigating what to believe now. We talk about how fear never ultimately motivates us to meaningful change, but how scary it is to rebuild your life and faith with a new engine when fear is no longer the primary driver.

One of our all-time favorite Zeitcast guests, Dr. C.E.W. Green wrote the foreword to The Book of Waiting: Reflections on Advent & Christmas. His perspective and insight not only helped shape the book in final form, here he once again illuminates something new about virtually everything that matters!

In this conversation, Jonathan and Nicole discuss the inspiration behind Jonathan's book on Advent and the timing of its release. They explore the importance of waiting and longing, and how to navigate cynicism and despair. They also discuss finding God in small moments and witnessing holiness in the midst of chaos. The conversation highlights the personal and universal nature of Advent and the power of real relationships, surrender and resistance, and the sound of God. He emphasizes the importance of bearing witness, welcoming the judgment of God, and discerning when to say yes or no. Overall, the conversation explores the intersection of personal and global longing, the significance of Advent practices, and the liberation that comes from embracing truth and responsibility. We discuss embracing regret and growth, reflecting on past hurts, moving forward and living new life, bringing healing and freedom, the liberating power of truth, living with fierce humility, having nothing to hide or defend, the fierceness and tenderness of saints, and their first sit-down as a couple. Takeaways The Christian story is meant to pull all our levers, connecting us to a story that is bigger, older, and more future-oriented than ourselves. There is a collective waiting and longing for the restoration and reconciliation of all things, both on a large scale and in our personal lives. Advent calls us to consecrate the time of waiting and longing, recognizing it as a sacrament and an opportunity for reconciliation in broken relationships. The longing for justice in the world and the longing for reconciliation in personal relationships are interconnected and should not be abandoned or prioritized over one another. The sound of God is one of liberation, tenderness, and freedom, and it transcends the harsh, constrictive, and coercive voices that claim to speak for God. Regret is a natural part of life, and it's important to acknowledge and learn from it. Reflecting on past hurts and the harm we may have caused others is necessary for growth and healing. Moving forward and living new life requires honest self-reflection and dealing with our own issues. Bringing healing and freedom to others requires a combination of fierce honesty and humility. The liberating power of truth can set us free and create a context for growth and transformation. Living with fierce humility means being open to feedback and constantly seeking truth. Having nothing to hide or defend allows for a more authentic and beautiful way of living. The saints embody both fierceness and tenderness, and they serve as role models for living a truthful and humble life. As a couple, Jonathan and his wife have a unique dynamic of learning from each other and asking questions. This conversation is just the beginning of many more discussions to come. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 03:36 The Inspiration Behind the Book 06:36 Publishing the Book 10:31 The Timing of the Book Release 13:05 The Importance of Waiting and Longing 16:17 The Presence of God in the Midst of Waiting 18:18 Navigating Cynicism and Despair 20:15 The Tension of Advent 21:38 Viewing Waiting and Longing as Sacrament 25:35 Finding God in Small Moments 28:13 Navigating Tensions in Communities 30:06 Witnessing Holiness in the Midst of Chaos 36:16 The Power of the Table 39:58 The Importance of Real Relationships 46:59 The Personal and Universal Nature of Advent 49:37 Revelation Language and Longing 50:18 Waiting and Longing for Restoration 51:10 Longing for Reconciliation in Relationships 52:02 The Intersection of Personal and Global Longing 53:01 Advent as a Time for Naming the Unnameable 53:29 Advent as a Space for Waiting and Longing 54:02 Discovering Advent Practices 54:57 The Importance of Waiting and Longing 55:25 The Command to Wait and Tarry 56:06 The Danger of Focusing on the Past 56:34 Reliving and Reenacting the Story 57:44 Intentional Waiting and Longing 58:11 Witness and the Power of Smallness 58:37 The Sound of God 01:00:53 Surrender and Resistance 01:02:10 Bearing Witness and Authenticity 01:03:07 The Judgment of God 01:03:53 Welcoming the Judgment of God 01:05:48 Discerning When to Say Yes or No 01:11:56 The Sound of God 01:19:28 The Sound of God and Self-Righteousness 01:21:07 Welcoming the Judgment of God 01:23:54 Saying Yes to Judgment and Truth 01:27:00 Personal Journey and Marriage 01:32:26 Life in Two Places and Protecting Loved Ones 01:38:01 Living with Depth and Liberation 01:40:12 Embracing Regret and Growth 01:41:11 Reflecting on Past Hurts 01:42:00 Moving Forward and Living New Life 01:43:19 Bringing Healing and Freedom 01:44:59 The Liberating Power of Truth 01:46:36 Living with Fierce Humility 01:47:32 Nothing to Hide or Defend 01:49:03 The Fierceness and Tenderness of Saints 01:50:26 First Sit-Down as a Couple 01:51:38 Asking Questions and Learning