Sleeping Barber - A Marketing Podcast

Join Marc and Vassilis as they reflect on their conversation with Dr. Augustine Fou, of FouAnalytics. They delve into the complexities of digital marketing, focusing on ad fraud, data integrity, and the challenges marketers face in a rapidly evolving landscape. They also discuss the importance of understanding the incentives behind ad fraud, the necessity of educating leadership on marketing metrics, and the philosophical underpinnings of advertising. They even cover some practical tips for marketers to navigate these challenges effectively.TakeawaysAd fraud is often a result of misaligned incentives within organizations.Marketers must take responsibility for understanding and addressing ad fraud.Data integrity is crucial; not all data is trustworthy.The audience expansion networks are a significant source of ad fraud.Marketers need to educate their leadership on the nuances of digital marketing metrics.Decision-making in marketing can be influenced by the fear of indecision.Practical tips, like turning off audience expansion networks, can mitigate fraud.Understanding the broader context of advertising is essential for effective marketing.The $300 billion ad fraud industry presents both challenges and opportunities for marketers.Speed and agility in decision-making are critical in the digital marketing landscape.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Initial Thoughts01:45 Ad Fraud and Incentivization Issues05:12 The Complexity of Reporting and Data Integrity09:00 Understanding the $300 Billion Fraud Industry12:39 The Goalie Paradox and Decision Making in Marketing16:25 Practical Tips for Marketers20:15 The Philosophy of Advertising and External Factors

Episode SummaryDigital advertising promised perfect accountability—laser-sharp targeting, flawless attribution, and measurable results down to the last click. But what if the data has been lying to us all along?Dr. Augustine Fou, former Chief Digital Officer and independent ad fraud researcher, reveals why the "1% fraud rate" you've been hearing for a decade is dangerously wrong. In this eye-opening conversation, he exposes the systemic incentives that allow ad fraud to thrive, costing advertisers billions while enriching middlemen, platforms, and fraudsters.You'll discover how a major hotel chain found their "incredible" ROAS completely evaporated when they turned off campaigns for one week. Why "audience expansion networks" are actually "fraudience networks" filled with bots. And how placement reports from your DSP are systematically fabricated because fraudulent sites lie about their domains in bid requests.Dr. Fou doesn't just diagnose the problem—he provides concrete, actionable solutions. Learn the one campaign setting that eliminates 90% of fraud instantly, why paying higher CPMs actually saves you money, and how to measure what actually matters: Human CPM (HCPM), not just impressions.This isn't about pointing fingers. It's about upgrading your analytics so you can finally see what's really happening with your ad spend—and take back control.Key TakeawaysThe 1% Lie: Legacy verification vendors have reported ~1% invalid traffic for 10 years straight—not because fraud is low, but because that's all they can detectThe Attribution Illusion: View-through conversions and ROAS reports massively over-attribute sales that would have happened anywayEveryone Benefits But You: Ad exchanges, agencies under budget pressure, verification vendors, and even marketers protecting their jobs all profit from the status quoFraudience Networks: Turning off audience expansion on Facebook, Google, TikTok, and other platforms immediately eliminates 90% of fraudThe CPM Trap: Lower CPMs aren't "cost efficiency"—you're just buying 10x more impressions where only 10% reach humans, making your effective Human CPM 10x higherPlacement Report Fiction: Sites lie about their domain in bid requests, so your blocklists don't work and your reports show clean inventory that doesn't existThe Turn-Off Test: Run holdout experiments—turn off campaigns in one state or for one week and measure if sales velocity actually changesTimestamps00:00 - Introduction: The Promise vs. Reality of Digital Advertising02:58 - Dr. Fou's Journey: From MIT Chemistry to Ad Fraud Research05:54 - Why Everyone Dismissed the Warnings (Including Marc)09:12 - There's No "Typical" Fraud Rate: From 1% to 100% Depending on What You Buy11:58 - The Attribution Problem: Why Your ROAS Reports Are Fiction14:56 - The Incentive Structure: Why Everyone Profits From Fraud Except Advertisers17:58 - When Does This Become a Shareholder Problem?26:59 - Red vs. Blue: Why You Must Measure Both Bots AND Humans29:27 - The CPM Misconception: Price vs. Cost Efficiency32:54 - Fraudience Networks: Turn Them Off and Save 90% Immediately36:04 - How Bots Game Retargeting and Audience Segments40:04 - Best Practices: Inclusion Lists, Direct Buying, and Turning Off Audience Networks42:15 - The Placement Report Scam: Why Your Blocklists Don't Work47:00 - The Footfall Fraud: How Ad Tech Gamed In-Store Attribution52:01 - Moving Away From Black Box Algorithms56:04 - Reframing the Conversation: From "Fraud" to "Better Analytics"Guest BioDr. Augustine Fou is a former Chief Digital Officer, independent ad fraud researcher, and creator of FouAnalytics—an analytics platform that measures both bot traffic (red) and human traffic (blue) to give advertisers unprecedented visibility into campaign quality. With 30 years in digital marketing dating back to 1995 at McKinsey & Company, Dr. Fou has been warning about systemic ad fraud since 2012. His scientific background (MIT, organic chemistry) drives his data-first approach to exposing what verification vendors miss and what platforms won't tell you.https://www.linkedin.com/in/augustinefou/Creator Fou Analytics https://fouanalytics.com/

In this episode, Marc and Vassilis discuss news that caught their attention over the last couple of weeks , including the dangers of discounting, Nike's strategic marketing efforts, the significance of attention in advertising, Meta's new ad-free subscription model, insights on Gen AI, and Anthropic's brand campaign for Claude. They emphasize the importance of relevance and identity in marketing strategies, as well as the evolving landscape of advertising in the digital age.Enjoy the show!Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysDiscounting can lead to a death spiral for profits.Nike is increasing its marketing budget ahead of major events.High attention media yields better advertising results.Meta's ad-free subscription model tests consumer willingness to pay.The Gen AI race is unfolding slowly, requiring strong branding.Attention is a proxy for advertising effectiveness.Relevance in advertising is crucial for consumer engagement.Brands must focus on identity and values to differentiate.The advertising landscape is shifting towards privacy and consent.Understanding customer needs is essential for effective marketing.Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction and Overview00:58 - The Perils of Discounting in Marketing05:27 - Nike's Strategic Marketing Moves09:58 - The Importance of Attention in Advertising14:37 - Meta's Ad-Free Subscription Model19:10 - Insights on Gen AI Marketing23:48 - Anthropic's Brand Campaign for ClaudeAd of the week:Anthropic just dropped its first major paid brand push for Claude, the AI model it develops. The campaign — titled “Keep Thinking” — positions Claude not as a gimmicky tool but as a thinking partner for serious problem solvers.https://youtu.be/FDNkDBNR7AM

In this conversation, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros reflect on their conversation with Ben Allison, exploring various aspects of media planning and marketing strategies. They focus on the importance of understanding the media diet pyramid, navigating the attention economy, and integrating organic social media into marketing efforts. They discuss the challenges posed by tech debt and the need for cohesive planning, especially as Q4 approaches.Enjoy the show:Our Guest:Ben Allison - EVP Media @ VaynerMediahttps://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-allison-7331a646/https://vaynermedia.com/Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Takeaways:The media diet pyramid helps visualize media channels.Walled gardens are essential for audience reach.Retail media and linear streaming should be integrated.Attention economy requires a principled media approach.Search is more about shelf space than direct advertising.SEO remains a complex and opaque field.Organic social can provide insights into audience attention.Marketing teams must collaborate for cohesive strategies.Tech debt can drain marketing budgets.Understanding attention versus impressions is crucial.Chapters:00:00 - Introduction to the Post Pod02:39 - Media Diet Pyramid and Its Implications05:21 - Navigating the Attention Economy07:56 - The Role of Search and SEO10:13 - Organic Social and Marketing Integration12:38 - Tech Debt and Marketing Challenges

In this episode of The Sleeping Barber Podcast, hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros sit down with Ben Allison, EVP of Media at VaynerMedia, to unpack the fast-changing media landscape. From “TikTokification” and consumer fragmentation to the new media “food pyramid,” they explore how attention, creativity, and creators are reshaping modern marketing. The conversation also tackles Q4 advertising pressures, evolving search strategies, and the ongoing challenge of balancing performance with brand building.Enjoy the show!Our Guest:Ben Allison - EVP Media @ VaynerMediahttps://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-allison-7331a646/https://vaynermedia.com/ Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Chapters:00:00 - Introduction 01:03 - The Evolution of Media and Consumer Fragmentation04:04 - Surprises in the Media Landscape05:56 - The Intersection of Media and Creative10:55 - Attention Metrics and Their Importance12:05 - The Modern Media Diet Explained15:39 - The Role of Creators in the Media Pyramid18:16 - Visualizing the Media Pyramid21:34 - Flexibility vs. Rigidity in Media Buying22:55 - The Dynamics of Advertising Decisions27:10 - Navigating Q4 Advertising Challenges30:26 - The Evolution of Search and Brand Strategy34:57 - Balancing Performance and Brand Marketing39:35 - Organizational Silos and Marketing Effectiveness46:06 - Harnessing Attention Through Organic Creative

In this episode, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley discuss things that caught their attention, including Nike's shift in slogan to resonate with a more anxious generation, the impact of AI on marketing metrics, and the success of American Eagle's controversial campaign featuring Sydney Sweeney. They also delve into the debate surrounding brand purpose in marketing, the revival of the iconic 'Got Milk' campaign, and the nostalgic comeback of Lee Jeans. Enjoy the show!Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysNike's slogan change reflects a shift towards empathy and mental health.AI is reshaping marketing metrics and consumer behaviour.American Eagle's campaign was successful despite backlash.Brand purpose may not be as impactful as previously thought.The 'Got Milk' campaign aims to reconnect with consumers through nostalgia.Lee Jeans is making a comeback with a focus on authenticity.Consumer preferences are shifting towards simpler ingredients.Marketing success is measured by customer response, not public opinion.Nostalgia can be a powerful tool in marketing campaigns.Brands must adapt to remain relevant in a changing market.Chapters00:00 - Introduction to Barbers Brief00:55 - Nike's Slogan Shift: A Cultural Relevance Strategy03:54 - The Impact of AI on Marketing Metrics07:37 - American Eagle's Controversial Campaign and Its Aftermath10:48 - The Purpose-Driven Brand Debate15:07 - Reviving the 'Got Milk' Campaign21:11 - Lee Jeans: A Refreshing Brand StrategyAd of the week:Built Like Lee - Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLH7p6ZISh0 After more than a decade, Lee is back with a new brand equity campaign that ditches celebrities for authenticity. “Built Like Lee” spotlights real people in real moments, refreshing the brand without reinventing it.While American Eagle chases viral buzz (and backlash) with Sydney Sweeney, Lee is betting on heritage, craft, and reliability. It’s a long-game strategy: rebuild equity first, then chase growth.In a world hooked on viral moments, Lee’s reminding us that sometimes the most powerful marketing isn’t flashy — it’s foundational.

In this conversation, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros reflect on their conversation with Alan Cross and explore the evolution of the music industry, particularly in the context of technological advancements and the rise of AI. They discuss the challenges faced by new artists in a saturated market, the importance of mental and physical availability in marketing, and how nostalgia influences modern music. The conversation also touches on strategies for breaking through in the industry and the future of music in an AI-driven landscape.Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysAI is transforming the music industry in unprecedented ways.The shift from albums to singles has changed how music is consumed.New artists face immense competition in a crowded market.Mental and physical availability are crucial for marketing success.Nostalgia can be a powerful tool for modern artists.Breaking through requires innovative marketing strategies.The music industry is constantly evolving with technology.Artists today compete with both contemporary and historical figures.Understanding audience engagement is key for new artists.The future of music will be shaped by AI and digital platforms.Chapters:00:00 The Evolution of Music and Technology02:26 Navigating the Modern Music Landscape05:03 The Role of AI in Music Creation07:28 Marketing Strategies for Artists09:52 Nostalgia and Its Impact on Music12:34 The Future of Music Consumption

What can marketers learn from 70 years of disruption in the music industry? Legendary broadcaster and musicologist Alan Cross joins Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros to unpack the parallels between rock ’n’ roll, technology, and the future of marketing.From the Beatles and Michael Jackson to Radiohead, Billie Eilish, and AI-generated artists, Alan takes us on a journey through the biggest shifts in music history—and reveals what marketers everywhere can apply to stay relevant, resilient, and innovative.If you want to sharpen your perspective on disruption, audience behavior, and adapting to change, this episode is essential listening.Our Guest:Alan Cross is an internationally known broadcaster, writer, and music historian. With more than 1,050 episodes of The Ongoing History of New Music and 30M+ downloads, Alan has documented the evolution of music, technology, and culture for over 45 years. He is also the host of Uncharted: Crime and Mayhem in the Music Industry, a consultant, and a sought-after speaker on the intersection of media, technology, and culture.www.ajournalofmusicalthings.com https://alancross.ca/Follow our updates:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysAdapt or fade away: How musicians and marketers alike face a “best before date” unless they evolve with technology and culture.The album effect: Why Sgt. Pepper’s changed not just music, but how products are packaged, positioned, and promoted.The monoculture era: How Michael Jackson’s Thriller and big-budget videos became a global marketing playbook.The pricing revolution: Radiohead’s In Rainbows and what it teaches us about business model innovation.From Napster to TikTok: Lessons in distribution, disruption, and discoverability.AI’s double edge: The opportunity and threat of AI-generated music—and what every marketer needs to know.Universal lesson: Don’t fight technology. Use it as a tool, or risk becoming obsolete.Chapters00:00 The Evolution of Music and Technology03:09 Adapting to Change in the Music Industry05:28 The Impact of Albums on Music Culture09:34 The Role of Retail in Music Discovery11:34 The Significance of Music Videos14:53 Marketing Strategies in the Music Industry16:38 The Shift to Digital and Streaming18:51 The Experimentation of Pricing Models19:58 The Rise of Digital Music Consumption25:56 The Transformation of Music Discovery26:37 The Challenge of Music Discovery30:11 The Impact of Social Media on Music34:49 The Fragmentation of Media Consumption39:49 The Future of Music Rights and AI50:39 Embracing Technology in Music MarketingLinks:The History of the Record Store https://open.spotify.com/episode/0KmTBhbHvFMg3cgiPwoRdO?si=5b244e1d4c8b4422The Rise & Fall of the MP3 https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-mp3/id1201968027?i=1000703061824People Still Go to Concerts LiveNation Q2 Report https://www.ajournalofmusicalthings.com/people-not-going-to-concerts-hah-live-nation-just-reported-a-massive-q2/The changing economics of the Music Industry https://app.lumiqlearn.com/episodes/jlDKnRnb3UcXsgc4jvJ9 Ticketmaster - The Origins of an industry Giant https://app.lumiqlearn.com/episodes/RH0w5jP1rZs1U0ZDuTbLTerry O’Reilly Marketing Hit Songs https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/marketing-hit-songs-1.2947741 How much music is release each year? https://nikkimiller.space/2025/02/09/how-much-music-is-released-every-year/Streaming Stats https://www.gearnews.com/spotify-streaming-report-2024-tech/

In this episode of the Barber's Brief, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley discuss things that have caught there attention over the last couple of weeks. Including the risks associated with rebranding, Amazon's recent advertising strategy, rising costs on Meta, Google's declining market share, and the effectiveness of advertising. They also highlight Marc's piece for WARC "Why your customers say 'ads don’t work on me' while wrapping up with their ad of the week!Enjoy the show!Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Chapters00:00 - Introduction 00:35 - The Risks of Rebranding03:16 - Amazon's Advertising Strategy Shift05:01 - Meta's Rising Advertising Costs08:28 - Google's Declining Market Share11:56 - The Role of Advertising in Consumer Behavior12:43 - Marketing Moment: Ads and Consumer Perception21:29 - Ad of the Week: Lacoste's Logo Glow UpIn The News Links:Title: The Rebrand Reality CheckLink: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/officialjohnjames_ok-now-this-story-became-interesting-are-activity-7366277517277659137-6YLO/https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cracker-barrel-co-founder-93-170000637.htmlTitle: Amazon exits Google Shopping adsLink: https://www.ecommercenorthamerica.org/2025/07/28/amazon-exits-google-shopping-ads/Title: Creative Might Be the Solution to your Meta's Budget ProblemLink: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kevin-goodwin-12b4243a_most-performance-ups-and-downs-on-meta-can-activity-7366181759685701632-oXVZ/Title: Google's Decline: Understanding the Shift in Search and What's Next - FrancoLink: https://franco.com/blog/advertising/googles-decline-understanding-the-shift-in-search-and-whats-next/The Marketing Moment:Title: 4Ps - Promotion: Why your customers say 'ads don’t work on me'Link: https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/opinion/4ps---promotion-why-your-customers-say-ads-dont-work-on-me/en-gb/7098Ad of the WeekTitle: Lacoste replaces its crocodile with a goat to celebrate Novak DjokovicLink: https://www.thedrum.com/news/2025/08/27/ad-the-day-lacoste-replaces-its-crocodile-with-goat-celebrate-novak-djokovic

In this episode, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley unpack the messy reality of B2B buying, following a thought-provoking conversation with Jann Schwartz and Mimi Turner.They explore how buying decisions are rarely rational or linear—shaped instead by shifting group dynamics, emotional “jobs to be done,” and the human need for trust and validation. Drawing from personal experiences with software purchasing, they highlight why buying groups don’t map neatly to org charts, why deals often stall due to misalignment rather than product fit, and how brand fame works differently for large versus niche players.The discussion also dives into what this means for B2B marketers and creatives alike—from building awareness to navigating the unique challenges smaller brands face when competing with established giants.Enjoy the show!Our Guests:Mimi Turner: Head of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedIn LMShttps://www.linkedin.com/in/mimi-turner/Jann Martin Schwartz: Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation, LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/janns/Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysB2B buying is a complex and relational process.Emotional components play a significant role in decision-making.Buyers often carry the blame for failed purchases.Buying groups should ideally be small and focused.The onboarding experience can impact perceptions of a product.Understanding emotional jobs to be done is crucial for marketers.Creative strategies must align with the emotional journey of buyers.Brand awareness is essential for niche products to compete.The buying process involves multiple stakeholders and perspectives.Marketers need to navigate political capital within organizations.Chapters:00:00 - Navigating the Complexities of B2B Buying02:38 - The Emotional Weight of Decision Making05:19 - The Role of Buying Groups in B2B07:55 - Understanding Emotional Jobs to Be Done10:30 - Creative Implications in B2B Marketing13:00 - The Importance of Brand Awareness in Buying Decisions15:23 - Integrating Products in a Buying Ecosystem