Sleeping Barber - A Marketing Podcast

Recorded live in Banff at The Gathering 2025, this special on-location episode of The Sleeping Barber Podcast brings together three conversations and a recap from hosts Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley.The episode explores how belonging, creativity, and technology are shaping the next chapter of marketing — from AI and the creator economy to the deeper values that connect brands and people.Ryan Gill, co-founder of The Gathering and Cult, shares the philosophy behind the event’s enduring success and what it takes to preserve its soul as it grows. His perspective on leadership, belonging, and the responsibility of “being good guests” in Banff underscores a broader lesson for marketers — scale only matters if it deepens connection.Vanessa Hope Schneider, Head of Marketing at Descript, reframes AI not as a threat but as a creative ally. She challenges marketers to take an “AI vacation” — dedicating uninterrupted time to learn and experiment — and reminds us that curiosity, not fear, should guide adoption. Her examples of AI co-creation, from “vibe-coded” design tools to custom GPTs for audience personas, reveal how AI can amplify human creativity rather than replace it.Caroline Murphy, CMO of Meta4 Interactive, takes us inside the evolving world of in-game brand experiences. She describes how brands can authentically show up inside ecosystems like Fortnite and Roblox by co-creating with gamers, designing “playable stories” that enhance — not interrupt — gameplay. It’s a new kind of “digital physical availability,” meeting audiences where they already live, play, and connect.Together, these conversations capture the evolving state of marketing: human connection grounded in creativity, powered by technology, and measured by meaning — not just metrics.Timestamps00:00 – Welcome to The Gathering 2025 in Banff, Alberta02:10 – Reflections on connection, belonging, and “no badge attacks”05:35 – The state of marketing effectiveness & long-term partnerships09:25 – Ryan Gill on scaling connection without losing soul16:40 – Leadership, values & “unreasonable hospitality”22:50 – Vanessa Hope Schneider on AI, creativity & taking an “AI vacation”31:00 – Coexisting with AI — where humans add the magic36:40 – Carolyn Murphy on the creator economy & in-game brand storytelling44:10 – How brands show up authentically in Roblox & Fortnite51:15 – Measurement, co-creation, and the next era of engagement

There's a lot of marketing effectiveness research out there. Binet and Field. Byron Sharp. Jenni Romaniuk. The Ehrenberg-Bass Institute. Karen Nelson-Field. Peter Field. System1. The Effies and the IPA databank. If you're trying to absorb all of this while doing your actual job, it's overwhelming.So we're making it simple: Eight fundamentals. These aren't tactics or channels. They're the underlying truths that emerge when you look at decades of research across thousands of brands, dozens of categories, and 50+ countries.In this episode, V and Marc break down:Strong Force vs. Weak Force - Why only 5% of buyers are ready to purchase right now, and why you need to build memory with the other 95%Growth Comes From Reach, Not Loyalty - Why big brands aren't more loved, they're just more boughtEasy to Mind, Easy to Find - Mental and physical availability: being thought of and being findableBothism: Balance Short & Long - Why you need both brand building (60%) and sales activation (40%)Creativity & Emotion Multiply Effectiveness - Why emotional campaigns are 11x more effective than rational onesFame & Consistency Build Memory - Why you should stop rebranding and commit to distinctive assets for decadesMaking Promises & Building Trust - Why your entire organization needs to deliver on what marketing promisesInvestment Drives Return - Why share of voice predicts share of marketThe pattern across all eight? They require playing a longer game than most marketers are willing to play. Time and consistency win. These are the laws of gravity for marketing—you can ignore them, but they're still operating.Whether you're in B2B or consumer, whether you're a CMO or running a small marketing team, these fundamentals apply. The question isn't "Do these apply to my business?" It's "How do I apply these to my specific context?"Chapters00:00 - Introduction & Overview"We took 39 sources... synthesized it all into eight fundamental principles"01:04 - Episode OpeningV and Marc introduce the episode and explain what fundamentals mean03:36 - List of 8 FundamentalsQuick overview of all eight principles04:36 - Fundamental #1: Strong Force vs. Weak ForceHow advertising actually works - the 5/95 rule11:46 - Fundamental #2: Growth Comes From Reach, Not LoyaltyWhy penetration beats retention19:06 - Fundamental #3: Easy to Mind, Easy to FindMental and physical availability27:45 - Fundamental #4: Bothism - Balance Short & LongThe 60/40 split and why you need both38:03 - Fundamental #5: Creativity & Emotion Multiply EffectivenessWhy emotional campaigns are 11x more effective46:31 - Fundamental #6: Fame & Consistency Build MemoryDistinctive assets and the danger of rebranding54:14 - Fundamental #7: Making Promises & Building TrustWhy your whole organization owns the brand promise01:00:11 - Fundamental #8: Investment Drives ReturnShare of voice predicts share of market01:08:22 - Synthesis & Wrap-UpThe pattern across all 8: Time and consistencyREFERENCES Strong vs. Weak Force Advertising: Strong Force or Weak Force? Two Views an Ocean Apart https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02650487.1990.11107151 The weak force school vs the strong force school https://www.warc.com/content/paywall/article/swocc/the-weak-force-school-vs-the-strong-force-school/en-gb/88053? Les Binet How Advertising REALLY works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9EDJs3evCIAndrew Ehrenberg Advertising: Strongly Persuasive or Nudging? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288306321_Advertising_Strongly_persuasive_or_nudgingByron Sharp, Malcolm Wright & Gerald Goodhardt Purchase Loyalty is Polarised into either Repertoire or Subscription Patterns   https://www.marketingscience.info/wp-content/uploads/staff/2015/08/7539.pdf Growth Comes From Reach, Not LoyaltyByron Sharp: "How Brands Grow" (Chapters on Double Jeopardy and penetration) https://www.amazon.ca/How-Brands-Grow-What-Marketers/dp/0195573560Romaniuk & Sharp: "How Brands Grow Part 2" (B2B evidence) https://www.amazon.ca/How-Brands-Grow-Including-Emerging/dp/0190330023/ref=pd_bxgy_thbs_d_sccl_1/140-1332947-4400340 Ehrenberg-Bass: Decades of analysis across 50+ countries https://marketingscience.info/marketing-theory-evidence-practice/ Binet & Field Long & Short of It: Brand penetration is the primary driver of share growth https://www.amazon.ca/Long-Short-Balancing-Long-Term-Strategies/dp/085294134XMarketing’s 60/20 Pareto Law Byron Sharp, Jenni Romaniuk, Charles Graham https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338094423_Marketing's_6020_Pareto_LawEasy to Mind, Easy to FindByron Sharp: "How Brands Grow" (Chapters on Double Jeopardy and penetration) https://www.amazon.ca/How-Brands-Grow-What-Marketers/dp/0195573560Romaniuk & Sharp: "How Brands Grow Part 2" (B2B evidence) https://www.amazon.ca/How-Brands-Grow-Including-Emerging/dp/0190330023/ref=pd_bxgy_thbs_d_sccl_1/140-1332947-4400340 Ehrenberg-Bass: Decades of analysis across 50+ countries https://marketingscience.info/marketing-theory-evidence-practice/Herbert Simon’s work on Satisficing https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/satisficing.asp The market-based assets theory of brand competition https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096969892300317X Jenni Romaniuk: "Building Distinctive Brand Assets" (mental availability framework) https://www.amazon.ca/Building-Distinctive-Brand-Assets-Romaniuk/dp/0190311509/ref=sr_1_1 B2B Institute and Jenni Romaniuk:  Category Entry Points in a B2B World https://business.linkedin.com/marketing-solutions/b2b-institute/cep-in-b2b Binet & Field: Fame beats uniqueness from the Long & Short of It https://www.amazon.ca/Long-Short-Balancing-Long-Term-Strategies/dp/085294134XKaren Nelson-Field, Adam Morgan & Peter Field The Cost of Dull Media https://www.amplified.co/resources/cost-of-dull Bothism: Balance Short & LongMark Ritson coined the term: https://www.marketingweek.com/ritson-bothism-cure-marketers-fascination-conflict/Binet & Field: "The Long and the Short of It" (the foundational work on this) https://www.amazon.ca/Long-Short-Balancing-Long-Term-Strategies/dp/085294134XBinet & Field: "Effectiveness in Context" (updated findings) https://www.thinkbox.tv/research/reports/effectiveness-in-context-free-downloadMental & Physical Availability Byron Sharp: "How Brands Grow" (Chapters on Double Jeopardy and penetration) https://www.amazon.ca/How-Brands-Grow-What-Marketers/dp/01955735605 / 95 Rule John Dawes https://marketingscience.info/the-955-rule-why-b2b-growth-starts-long-before-the-purchase/WARC the Multiplier Effect https://page.warc.com/the-multiplier-effect-report Creativity & Emotion Multiply EffectivenessThe B2B Effectiveness Code https://business.linkedin.com/marketing-solutions/b2b-institute/the-b2b-effectiveness-code Binet & Field: "The Long and the Short of It" (creativity analysis) https://www.amazon.ca/Long-Short-Balancing-Long-Term-Strategies/dp/085294134XLions & WARC Creative Effectiveness Ladder https://www.lionscreativity.com/creative-effectiveness-ladderPaul Dyson & Kantar - The advertising multipliers that matter are not what marketers think https://www.kantar.com/inspiration/advertising-media/the-advertising-multipliers-that-matter-are-not-what-marketers-thinkSystem1 & IPA The Power of Compound Creativity https://system1group.com/compound-creativity-system1-ipaSystem1 & Effies The Creative Dividend https://system1group.com/the-creative-dividendPeter Field: "The Crisis in Creative Effectiveness" (creativity declining over time) https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/publications-reports/the-crisis-in-creative-effectivenessIPA The link between creativity and effectiveness https://srh.agency/assets/documents/dispatch-1466161111_Creativity_and_Effectiveness.pdf Karen Nelson-Field: "Attention Economy" research (emotion drives attention) https://www.amazon.ca/Attention-Economy-How-Media-Works/dp/9811515395 System1, Peter Field & Adam Morgan The Extraordinary Cost of Dull https://system1group.com/the-extraordinary-cost-of-dullSystem1 & WARC: How Creativity Boosts ROI - emotional response predicts long-term effectiveness https://system1group.com/how-creativity-boosts-roi LinkedIn B2B Institute: "The Effectiveness Code" (emotion in B2B)  https://business.linkedin.com/marketing-solutions/b2b-institute/the-b2b-effectiveness-code Fame & Consistency Build MemoryJenni Romaniuk: "Building Distinctive Brand Assets" (the definitive work on this)Binet & Field: Fame beats uniqueness or persuasion https://www.amazon.ca/Long-Short-Balancing-Long-Term-Strategies/dp/085294134XByron Sharp: "How Brands Grow" (consistency in execution)   https://www.amazon.ca/How-Brands-Grow-What-Marketers/dp/0195573560VCCP UK & Karen Nelson-Field Hacking the Attention Economy https://www.vccp.com/uk/news/2025/may/hacking-the-attention-economy-vccp-media-and-dr-karen-nelson-field-reveal-1-5-second-formula-for-effective-digital-advertising Ehrenberg-Bass Institute & Nicole Hartnett What happens when brands stop advertising? https://marketingscience.info/when-brands-stop-advertising/ Nielsen Budgeting for the Upturn - does Share of Voice Matter https://www.nielsen.com/insights/2009/budgeting-for-the-upturn-does-share-of-voice-matter/ Promise & Meaning Create TrustKantar: BrandZ analysis (meaningful brands grow faster) https://www.kantar.com/campaigns/blueprint-for-brand-growth Edelman Trust Barometer (trust in brands declining, but matters for purchase) https://www.edelman.com/news-awards/only-one-third-of-consumers-trust-most-of-the-brands-they-buy B2B Institute & Roger Martin Promise to the Customer https://business.linkedin.com/marketing-solutions/b2b-institute/making-a-promise-to-the-customer B2B Institute & Roger Martin Promise to the Business Customer  https://business.linkedin.com/content/dam/me/business/en-us/marketing-solutions/resources/pdfs/making-a-promise-to-the-business-customer-final.pdf Investment Drives ReturnBinet & Field: Excess Share of Voice (ESOV) research https://www.amazon.ca/Long-Short-Balancing-Long-Term-Strategies/dp/085294134XIPA: Recession marketing analysis https://ipa.co.uk/initiatives/effworks/effworks-ft-reports/advertising-in-recession John Philip Jones Ad Spending: Maintaining Market Share (eSOV) https://hbr.org/1990/01/ad-spending-maintaining-market-shareIPA, Les Binet & Will Davis Go Big or Go Home https://ipa.co.uk/news/go-big-or-go-home/ 

In this week’s Barber’s Brief, Marc and Vassilis dive into stories that had the marketing world buzzing — from Lululemon’s founder publicly calling out the brand’s leadership to Google breaking SEO dashboards everywhere after removing the num=100 parameter. They explore new research proving creators are better brand builders than sales drivers, and then welcome Dr. Nicole Hartnett from the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute to unpack her team’s latest findings on how marketers misjudge brand strength compared to consumers.They wrap up with the Ad of the Week — Dove’s “Change the Compliment,” a heartfelt campaign challenging how we praise young girls. It’s insightful, funny, and filled with marketing lessons that stick.Key TakeawaysLululemon’s identity crisis: Founder Chip Wilson’s fiery WSJ ad claims the brand lost its creative edge chasing quarterly profits — a reminder of what happens when finance outweighs product and brand.Link: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1397187/000119312525234754/ck0000000000-ex99_4.pdfGoogle’s “num=100” chaos: 77% of sites saw keyword visibility drop, exposing years of phantom SEO data. Your reports might look worse… but they’re actually more accurate.Link: https://searchengineland.com/google-search-rank-and-position-tracking-is-a-mess-right-now-461984We’ve been using creators wrong: Groundbreaking research proves creators build brand love, not just clicks — performing on par with TV in the short term, and even better long-term.Link: https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2025/10/08/ground-breaking-research-proves-we-ve-been-using-creators-wrong-all-timeMarketing Moment – Brand misjudgment: Dr. Nicole Hartnett reveals marketers consistently overestimate fame and underestimate the uniqueness of their assets — the “false consensus effect” in action.Link: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41262-025-00395-ySpecial Guest: Dr. Nichole Hartnet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-hartnett/Ad of the Week – Dove’s “Change the Compliment”: A beautifully simple message — stop telling girls they’re pretty, and start telling them they’re powerful, kind, and creative.Link: https://www.thedrum.com/news/2025/10/10/dove-urges-people-change-how-girls-are-complimentedTimestamps:00:00 – Cold open & Thanksgiving banter02:00 – Lululemon in a Nosedive: Chip Wilson’s WSJ ad10:00 – Google’s “num=100” parameter and the SEO data meltdown18:00 – New IPA research: We’ve been using creators wrong26:00 – Marketing Moment: Dr. Nicole Hartnett on brand misjudgment46:00 – Ad of the Week: Dove’s “Change the Compliment”57:00 – What’s next on The Sleeping Barber PodcastFollow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/

Join Marc and Vassilis as they reflect on their conversation with Dr. Augustine Fou, of FouAnalytics. They delve into the complexities of digital marketing, focusing on ad fraud, data integrity, and the challenges marketers face in a rapidly evolving landscape. They also discuss the importance of understanding the incentives behind ad fraud, the necessity of educating leadership on marketing metrics, and the philosophical underpinnings of advertising. They even cover some practical tips for marketers to navigate these challenges effectively.TakeawaysAd fraud is often a result of misaligned incentives within organizations.Marketers must take responsibility for understanding and addressing ad fraud.Data integrity is crucial; not all data is trustworthy.The audience expansion networks are a significant source of ad fraud.Marketers need to educate their leadership on the nuances of digital marketing metrics.Decision-making in marketing can be influenced by the fear of indecision.Practical tips, like turning off audience expansion networks, can mitigate fraud.Understanding the broader context of advertising is essential for effective marketing.The $300 billion ad fraud industry presents both challenges and opportunities for marketers.Speed and agility in decision-making are critical in the digital marketing landscape.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction and Initial Thoughts01:45 Ad Fraud and Incentivization Issues05:12 The Complexity of Reporting and Data Integrity09:00 Understanding the $300 Billion Fraud Industry12:39 The Goalie Paradox and Decision Making in Marketing16:25 Practical Tips for Marketers20:15 The Philosophy of Advertising and External Factors

Episode SummaryDigital advertising promised perfect accountability—laser-sharp targeting, flawless attribution, and measurable results down to the last click. But what if the data has been lying to us all along?Dr. Augustine Fou, former Chief Digital Officer and independent ad fraud researcher, reveals why the "1% fraud rate" you've been hearing for a decade is dangerously wrong. In this eye-opening conversation, he exposes the systemic incentives that allow ad fraud to thrive, costing advertisers billions while enriching middlemen, platforms, and fraudsters.You'll discover how a major hotel chain found their "incredible" ROAS completely evaporated when they turned off campaigns for one week. Why "audience expansion networks" are actually "fraudience networks" filled with bots. And how placement reports from your DSP are systematically fabricated because fraudulent sites lie about their domains in bid requests.Dr. Fou doesn't just diagnose the problem—he provides concrete, actionable solutions. Learn the one campaign setting that eliminates 90% of fraud instantly, why paying higher CPMs actually saves you money, and how to measure what actually matters: Human CPM (HCPM), not just impressions.This isn't about pointing fingers. It's about upgrading your analytics so you can finally see what's really happening with your ad spend—and take back control.Key TakeawaysThe 1% Lie: Legacy verification vendors have reported ~1% invalid traffic for 10 years straight—not because fraud is low, but because that's all they can detectThe Attribution Illusion: View-through conversions and ROAS reports massively over-attribute sales that would have happened anywayEveryone Benefits But You: Ad exchanges, agencies under budget pressure, verification vendors, and even marketers protecting their jobs all profit from the status quoFraudience Networks: Turning off audience expansion on Facebook, Google, TikTok, and other platforms immediately eliminates 90% of fraudThe CPM Trap: Lower CPMs aren't "cost efficiency"—you're just buying 10x more impressions where only 10% reach humans, making your effective Human CPM 10x higherPlacement Report Fiction: Sites lie about their domain in bid requests, so your blocklists don't work and your reports show clean inventory that doesn't existThe Turn-Off Test: Run holdout experiments—turn off campaigns in one state or for one week and measure if sales velocity actually changesTimestamps00:00 - Introduction: The Promise vs. Reality of Digital Advertising02:58 - Dr. Fou's Journey: From MIT Chemistry to Ad Fraud Research05:54 - Why Everyone Dismissed the Warnings (Including Marc)09:12 - There's No "Typical" Fraud Rate: From 1% to 100% Depending on What You Buy11:58 - The Attribution Problem: Why Your ROAS Reports Are Fiction14:56 - The Incentive Structure: Why Everyone Profits From Fraud Except Advertisers17:58 - When Does This Become a Shareholder Problem?26:59 - Red vs. Blue: Why You Must Measure Both Bots AND Humans29:27 - The CPM Misconception: Price vs. Cost Efficiency32:54 - Fraudience Networks: Turn Them Off and Save 90% Immediately36:04 - How Bots Game Retargeting and Audience Segments40:04 - Best Practices: Inclusion Lists, Direct Buying, and Turning Off Audience Networks42:15 - The Placement Report Scam: Why Your Blocklists Don't Work47:00 - The Footfall Fraud: How Ad Tech Gamed In-Store Attribution52:01 - Moving Away From Black Box Algorithms56:04 - Reframing the Conversation: From "Fraud" to "Better Analytics"Guest BioDr. Augustine Fou is a former Chief Digital Officer, independent ad fraud researcher, and creator of FouAnalytics—an analytics platform that measures both bot traffic (red) and human traffic (blue) to give advertisers unprecedented visibility into campaign quality. With 30 years in digital marketing dating back to 1995 at McKinsey & Company, Dr. Fou has been warning about systemic ad fraud since 2012. His scientific background (MIT, organic chemistry) drives his data-first approach to exposing what verification vendors miss and what platforms won't tell you.https://www.linkedin.com/in/augustinefou/Creator Fou Analytics https://fouanalytics.com/

In this episode, Marc and Vassilis discuss news that caught their attention over the last couple of weeks , including the dangers of discounting, Nike's strategic marketing efforts, the significance of attention in advertising, Meta's new ad-free subscription model, insights on Gen AI, and Anthropic's brand campaign for Claude. They emphasize the importance of relevance and identity in marketing strategies, as well as the evolving landscape of advertising in the digital age.Enjoy the show!Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysDiscounting can lead to a death spiral for profits.Nike is increasing its marketing budget ahead of major events.High attention media yields better advertising results.Meta's ad-free subscription model tests consumer willingness to pay.The Gen AI race is unfolding slowly, requiring strong branding.Attention is a proxy for advertising effectiveness.Relevance in advertising is crucial for consumer engagement.Brands must focus on identity and values to differentiate.The advertising landscape is shifting towards privacy and consent.Understanding customer needs is essential for effective marketing.Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction and Overview00:58 - The Perils of Discounting in Marketing05:27 - Nike's Strategic Marketing Moves09:58 - The Importance of Attention in Advertising14:37 - Meta's Ad-Free Subscription Model19:10 - Insights on Gen AI Marketing23:48 - Anthropic's Brand Campaign for ClaudeAd of the week:Anthropic just dropped its first major paid brand push for Claude, the AI model it develops. The campaign — titled “Keep Thinking” — positions Claude not as a gimmicky tool but as a thinking partner for serious problem solvers.https://youtu.be/FDNkDBNR7AM

In this conversation, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros reflect on their conversation with Ben Allison, exploring various aspects of media planning and marketing strategies. They focus on the importance of understanding the media diet pyramid, navigating the attention economy, and integrating organic social media into marketing efforts. They discuss the challenges posed by tech debt and the need for cohesive planning, especially as Q4 approaches.Enjoy the show:Our Guest:Ben Allison - EVP Media @ VaynerMediahttps://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-allison-7331a646/https://vaynermedia.com/Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Takeaways:The media diet pyramid helps visualize media channels.Walled gardens are essential for audience reach.Retail media and linear streaming should be integrated.Attention economy requires a principled media approach.Search is more about shelf space than direct advertising.SEO remains a complex and opaque field.Organic social can provide insights into audience attention.Marketing teams must collaborate for cohesive strategies.Tech debt can drain marketing budgets.Understanding attention versus impressions is crucial.Chapters:00:00 - Introduction to the Post Pod02:39 - Media Diet Pyramid and Its Implications05:21 - Navigating the Attention Economy07:56 - The Role of Search and SEO10:13 - Organic Social and Marketing Integration12:38 - Tech Debt and Marketing Challenges

In this episode of The Sleeping Barber Podcast, hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros sit down with Ben Allison, EVP of Media at VaynerMedia, to unpack the fast-changing media landscape. From “TikTokification” and consumer fragmentation to the new media “food pyramid,” they explore how attention, creativity, and creators are reshaping modern marketing. The conversation also tackles Q4 advertising pressures, evolving search strategies, and the ongoing challenge of balancing performance with brand building.Enjoy the show!Our Guest:Ben Allison - EVP Media @ VaynerMediahttps://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-allison-7331a646/https://vaynermedia.com/ Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/Chapters:00:00 - Introduction 01:03 - The Evolution of Media and Consumer Fragmentation04:04 - Surprises in the Media Landscape05:56 - The Intersection of Media and Creative10:55 - Attention Metrics and Their Importance12:05 - The Modern Media Diet Explained15:39 - The Role of Creators in the Media Pyramid18:16 - Visualizing the Media Pyramid21:34 - Flexibility vs. Rigidity in Media Buying22:55 - The Dynamics of Advertising Decisions27:10 - Navigating Q4 Advertising Challenges30:26 - The Evolution of Search and Brand Strategy34:57 - Balancing Performance and Brand Marketing39:35 - Organizational Silos and Marketing Effectiveness46:06 - Harnessing Attention Through Organic Creative

In this episode, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley discuss things that caught their attention, including Nike's shift in slogan to resonate with a more anxious generation, the impact of AI on marketing metrics, and the success of American Eagle's controversial campaign featuring Sydney Sweeney. They also delve into the debate surrounding brand purpose in marketing, the revival of the iconic 'Got Milk' campaign, and the nostalgic comeback of Lee Jeans. Enjoy the show!Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysNike's slogan change reflects a shift towards empathy and mental health.AI is reshaping marketing metrics and consumer behaviour.American Eagle's campaign was successful despite backlash.Brand purpose may not be as impactful as previously thought.The 'Got Milk' campaign aims to reconnect with consumers through nostalgia.Lee Jeans is making a comeback with a focus on authenticity.Consumer preferences are shifting towards simpler ingredients.Marketing success is measured by customer response, not public opinion.Nostalgia can be a powerful tool in marketing campaigns.Brands must adapt to remain relevant in a changing market.Chapters00:00 - Introduction to Barbers Brief00:55 - Nike's Slogan Shift: A Cultural Relevance Strategy03:54 - The Impact of AI on Marketing Metrics07:37 - American Eagle's Controversial Campaign and Its Aftermath10:48 - The Purpose-Driven Brand Debate15:07 - Reviving the 'Got Milk' Campaign21:11 - Lee Jeans: A Refreshing Brand StrategyAd of the week:Built Like Lee - Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLH7p6ZISh0 After more than a decade, Lee is back with a new brand equity campaign that ditches celebrities for authenticity. “Built Like Lee” spotlights real people in real moments, refreshing the brand without reinventing it.While American Eagle chases viral buzz (and backlash) with Sydney Sweeney, Lee is betting on heritage, craft, and reliability. It’s a long-game strategy: rebuild equity first, then chase growth.In a world hooked on viral moments, Lee’s reminding us that sometimes the most powerful marketing isn’t flashy — it’s foundational.

In this conversation, Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros reflect on their conversation with Alan Cross and explore the evolution of the music industry, particularly in the context of technological advancements and the rise of AI. They discuss the challenges faced by new artists in a saturated market, the importance of mental and physical availability in marketing, and how nostalgia influences modern music. The conversation also touches on strategies for breaking through in the industry and the future of music in an AI-driven landscape.Follow Our Updates⁠⁠LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sleeping-barber/https://www.sleepingbarber.caGet in touch with our hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/TakeawaysAI is transforming the music industry in unprecedented ways.The shift from albums to singles has changed how music is consumed.New artists face immense competition in a crowded market.Mental and physical availability are crucial for marketing success.Nostalgia can be a powerful tool for modern artists.Breaking through requires innovative marketing strategies.The music industry is constantly evolving with technology.Artists today compete with both contemporary and historical figures.Understanding audience engagement is key for new artists.The future of music will be shaped by AI and digital platforms.Chapters:00:00 The Evolution of Music and Technology02:26 Navigating the Modern Music Landscape05:03 The Role of AI in Music Creation07:28 Marketing Strategies for Artists09:52 Nostalgia and Its Impact on Music12:34 The Future of Music Consumption