Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger, author of Leadership for a Time of Pandemic, knows about leadership in times of disorientation.  And 2020 is certainly a time of disorientation!  A global pandemic.  A worldwide economic recession.  Social unrest and an outcry for racial justice.But it’s not the first time we’ve experienced disorientation.  Perhaps what makes 2020 unique is the global nature of what is happening and the fact that the challenges won’t seem to go away.In this episode, Tod Bolsinger helps us explore what is required of spiritual leaders in times of disorientation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tod Bolsinger is the author of Leadership for a Time of Pandemic.Tod explains what it means to not “waste a crisis.”There are two stages in a crisis:  the acute stage and the adaptive stage.Vulnerable self-reflection is needed to develop the strength to be a resilient leader.“The vulnerability of leadership needs the security of many relationships.” According to Tod Bolsinger, the hardest thing in times of adaptive change is the internal resistance of one’s own people.In this time of pandemic, we need resilient leadership.People don’t resist change.  They resist loss.Rationalization is about coming up with reasons for avoiding necessary pain.“You need an identity that is grounded in something other than your success as a leader.”Text “uncharted” to 66866 to find out more about Tod Bolsinger and his work.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Tod Bolsinger:Text “uncharted” to 66866Books mentioned:Leadership for a Time of Pandemic, by Tod BolsingerCanoeing the Mountains, by Tod BolsingerTempered Resilience, by Tod BolsingerRelated episodes:Episode 16: Canoeing the Mountains, with Tod BolsingerSpiritual Life and Leadership Facebook Group:www.markuswatson.com/sllgroupInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!— Links to Amazon are affiliate links.  If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Chuck DeGroat has written a fantastic book titled, When Narcissism Comes to Church, which he unpacks for us in this episode.Most of us who are in positions of spiritual leadership have some tendencies toward narcissism.  Many of us want to be loved and respected--and sometimes we think of ourselves as pretty awesome.But then there are those who are truly narcissistic, who are so unhealthy that they leave a wake of misery and destruction in their ministries.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Chuck DeGroat is Professor of Pastoral Care at Western Theological Seminary and author of When Narcissism Comes to Church.As a young pastor, Chuck started to notice the way narcissistic pastors were preferred.Chuck DeGroat discusses why the church is a breeding ground for narcissism.The church has a strange love affair with power, despite the fact that our faith is based on the crucified One.Chuck DeGroat explains what he means by “healthy narcissism.”  Children, for instance, need to believe they are the center of their parents’ world.  A certain narcissism is developmentally appropriate for children at that age.Richard Rohr uses the language of “first half of life” and “second half of life” to refer to healthy narcissism.Chuck DeGroat describes how narcissism manifests itself in the church.Serving in a church led by a narcissist can be a traumatic experience.Pastors need to be “wounded healers,” as Henri Nouwen said.Markus shares how he has grown to care for people more than he used to.If you are serving under a narcissistic leader, it’s helpful to get therapy for yourself to unpack what is going on.Chuck DeGroat shares his own experience of spiritual growth as he has studied narcissism.You can find out more about Chuck DeGroat at chuckdegroat.net.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Chuck DeGroatWebsite – www.chuckdegroat.netBooks mentioned:Narcissism in the Church, by Chuck DeGroatBeyond Thingification, by Markus WatsonFalling Upward, by Richard RohrThe Critical Journey, by Janet Hagberg and Robert GuelichThe Wounded Healer, by Henri NouwenInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Chuck Whitley knows that if you’re a leader, you have experienced anger.  Well, if you’re a human being, you’ve experienced anger.The truth is, anger is a normal, natural human emotion.  The question is, as leaders, how should we navigate our anger in a way that is ultimately productive and that leads to greater health for our organization and greater shalom for those we lead?Chuck Whitley, helps us better understand what’s going on when we experience anger and how to navigate it in a way that brings flourishing to us and to the world.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Chuck Whitley does executive coaching and is the Executive Director of 4C Business.  Chuck coaches from a biblical worldview.Chuck Whitley came to faith as he was about to commit suicide.As a pastor, Chuck Whitley would pray with business people in his church.Chuck’s work now is very much like spiritual direction for business leaders.Anger is essentially the way we enact the fight or flight response to stressful situations.People must first be able to identify that they are experiencing anger. Then they must identify the system they are angry about, rather than the person they are angry at.Chuck Whitley explains the anger-blame cycle.Pastors generally have a theology of forgiveness, but they don’t always have a practice of forgiveness.In order to walk others through the process of dealing with anger, Chuck Whitley has to go through the process himself first.You can reach Chuck Whitley at www.4cbusiness.com.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:4C BusinessInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!James Choung, the author of True Story: A Christianity Worth Believing In, outlines a way of talking about Jesus that addresses, not only our need for eternal life, but also God’s desire to bring restoration to the world today and our invitation to participate with God in that work of restoration.This is a fantastic interview about sharing a Gospel that is truly good news, not only for the afterlife, but also—and perhaps even more importantly—for the here and now.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:James Choung is Vice President of Strategy and Innovation for InterVarsity and author of True Story: A Christianity Worth Believing In, Real Life: A Christianity Worth Living Out, and Longing For Revival: From Holy Discontent to Breakthrough Faith.James encountered Jesus in college through Intervarsity Christian Fellowship.James Choung began to ask if the way we present the Gospel is creating selfish Christians.Dallas Willard, who was teaching a Doctor of Ministry class that James was taking, asked, “What is the Gospel Jesus preached?” That was a turning point for James.The Gospel Jesus preached was, “The Kingdom of God has come near.  Repent and believe the good news.”The Kingdom of God is not just about what happens when we die, but also about what happens now in this life.You can view videos of James Choung's Gospel diagram HERE.  You can also download a PDF explanation HERE.The four components of the Gospel are that we have been:Designed for goodDamaged by evilRestored for betterSent together to healIs a gospel that has no social impact actually good news?Understanding the Gospel in this way made the Gospel once again feel like good news to James.James Choung’s most recent book is titled, Longing for Revival.To connect with James Choung visit jameschoung.net.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:James Choung:Website – www.jameschoung.netGospel Presentation videosGospel Presentation PDFBooks Mentioned:True Story: A Christianity Worth Believing In, by James ChoungReal Life: A Christianity Worth Living Out, by James ChoungLonging For Revival: From Holy Discontent to Breakthrough Faith, by James ChoungOther links:Bridge of the Faithful podcastStrongbad E-mail, "How to Draw a Dragon"— Links to Amazon are affiliate links.  If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life aClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Evangelical identity has changed. The word “evangelical” carries a lot of baggage these days.  There was a time when it primarily denoted a theological conviction that included a recognition of the Scriptures as God’s word, an understanding of our need for salvation through Jesus, and a commitment to caring for the “least of these.”Unfortunately, that’s no longer what most non-Christians think of when they hear the word “evangelical.”  Today, evangelical identity has become--for a lot of people--synonymous with American, right wing, conservative politics.In his book, delightfully titled, When Evangelicals Sneeze, Michael Cooper explores the historic meaning of evangelicalism and how evangelical identity has changed in recent years.  And in this interview, we dive into those same topics.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Michael Cooper shares the story of a young Evangelical Palestinian woman who has experienced persecution because people in her community associate Evangelicalism with Donald Trump.Feeling as though he had lost his evangelical identity, Michael “resigned” from Evangelicalism in a conversation with Doug Birdsall, former Executive Director for the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization.There are three marks of historic Evangelicalism:The Great Commandment:  The defense of the faith.The Great Compassion:  Our engagement in social justice.The Great Commission:  The declaration of God’s glory to the nations.Michael Cooper discusses the connection between Evangelicalism and conservative politics.Michael explains what he means by the term, “Trumpgelical.” It seems this has in some ways become the new evangelical identity.There are various kinds of evangelicals, including Trumpgelicals, Deconstructionists, Post-modernists, and Fundamentalists.There is a difference between a Trumpgelical and an Evangelical person who voted for Trump.The title of Michael Cooper’s book, When Evangelicals Sneeze, is a reference to the impact that American Evangelicalism has on global Evangelicalism.When Evangelicals Sneeze is available on Amazon.  You can find out more about Michael Cooper and his work at www.ephesiology.com.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Michael CooperEphesiology WebsiteBooks mentioned:When Evangelicals Sneeze, by Michael CooperEphesiology: A Study of the Ephesian Movement, by Michael CooperInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!— Links to AmazonClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Tim Winders had it all.  A beautiful home, three companies each valued in the millions.  He was, by all accounts, very successful.Then the 2008 recession hit and he and his family began the slow descent of financial collapse that culminated with the loss of their home and essentially becoming homeless.In this episode, you’ll hear how Tim’s life was transformed through this experience and how his experience of suffering and loss drew him into a much deeper relationship with God than he could have ever imagined.  THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tim Winders is a business coach and host of the Seek Go Create podcast.  He also just finished writing a novel which will be released soon.In the early 2000’s, Tim owned real estate, coaching, and lead generation business valued in the millions of dollars.Tim tells the story of how he lost his home when the economy collapsed in 2008.  He and his wife became nomads living in an RV and have continued to live that way since then.In his younger years, Tim's mind was set on experiencing as much financial success as possible.After coming to faith, Tim Winders found himself believing aspects of the prosperity gospel.As the economy fell apart in the years after 2008, Tim and his family had no choice but to seek the Lord.Tim learned that he is a steward—not an owner—of everything he has.Tim embarked on an eighteen-month study of the Kingdom of God.  Tim defines the Kingdom of God as anywhere God is allowed to reign and rule.Tim Winders describes how he defines success today.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Tim Winders and Seek Go CreatePodcastWebsiteTwitterMarkus Watson Patreon pageInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Steven Garber has spent his life helping people get a clearer understanding of vocation in general, but also helping them get clear on their own unique vocations.  In this interview, he will do the same for you.  Near the end of the episode, Steve tells three brief stories to help us understand why pastors and churches need to have a robust understanding of vocation, so be sure you listen to the end.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Steven Garber is author of Visions of Vocation and Professor of Marketplace Theology at Regent College.Steve shares his story and what led him to focus his work on matters of vocation.“Who keeps on keeping on?” became the question of Steve’s life.“Vocation” is a big word and a big concept.  It is much more than a job or occupation.The first question we ask must be, “Who am I?”  The second must be, “Why am I?”  From these two questions follows a third:  “What should I do with my life?”In his book, Steven Garber writes, “To know the world and still love it. There is not a more difficult task that human beings face.”  Steve unpacks this statement.Steve and Markus discuss marriage as a vocation, citing a series of poems by Madeleine L’Engle called To a Long-Loved Love.Visions of Vocation focuses on the question, “Knowing what you know about yourself and the world, what are you going to do?”Steve explains how he would help a person begin to understand their vocation.Steven Garber shares three stories that demonstrate why it’s so important for ministry leaders to have a robust understanding of vocation.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Books mentioned:Visions of Vocation: Common Grace for the Common Good, by Steven GarberThe Ordering of Love: The New and Collected Poems of Madeleine L'Engle, by Madeleine L'EngleWork Matters: Connecting Sunday Worship to Monday Work, by Tom NelsonFlourish San DiegoSix Practices of a Flourishing Church, free resource by Markus WatsonInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!— Links to Amazon are affiliate links.  If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Jason Elam, host of the Messy Spirituality podcast, has an amazing story.  As a pastor, Jason had all the answers, but he didn't have a lot of love.  Then something happened.  Today, Jason Elam is no longer a pastor and he doesn't have all the answers.  But he has discovered the love of God in a way he could never have imagined before.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jason Elam is a former pastor and host of the Messy Spirituality podcast.Jason is currently writing a book with the working title, From Ashes We Rise: Rebuilding Your Faith When Your Life Burns Down.Jason was constantly afraid of God when he was a child.Jason was often a guest speaker in churches who got people “back into line.”It was by losing his church and losing his marriage that Jason hit “that bottom place.” This is where Jason began to learn that he was loved unconditionally by God.Jason Elam had a near death experience as a child in which he experienced the unconditional acceptance of God.  That acceptance always pulled him away from the legalism of his tradition.During the final year of Jason Elam’s ministry, Jason’s church stopped holding worship service. Instead, they held an indoor farmer’s market with food for anyone who needed it.We can only truly know God when we truly know ourselves.Certainty makes preaching easier but living with yourself harder.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jason Elam:Website:  www.messyspirituality.orgBooks mentioned:Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life, by Richard RohrThe Gift of Being Yourself, by David BennerSurrender to Love, by David BennerLife of the Beloved, by Henri NouwenInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!— Links to Amazon are affiliate links.  If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!To celebrate the 75th episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership, I'm bringing a short conversation with my twelve-year-old daughter, Macy Watson.  We talk about her thoughts on God and we talk about leadership.Oh, and what the heck is "a box with feelings"?  Well, you'll just have to listen to find out!THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus interviews his daughter, Macy, about her thoughts on 1) God and the spiritual life and 2) leadership.Macy thinks of God as the most understanding Person ever.Macy sometimes thinks of herself as “a box with feelings”.Macy shares her experience as captain of her cheer team.Macy believes forcing people to do what you want them to do is bad leadership.Markus explains to Macy the metaphor of “the carrot and the stick.”RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Spiritual Life and Leadership:Facebook GroupFacebook PageInstructions to leave a review of Spiritual Life and Leadership:Click HERE.Click on the link that says, "Listen on Apple Podcasts."In the window that opens, click the button that says, "Open Link."  This will open iTunes.To the right of the Spiritual Life and Leadership logo, click "Ratings and Reviews."Under the heading, "Customer Reviews," click on the button that says, "Write a Review."Select the number of stars and write your review.Click submit.I'd be so grateful if you did this.  Thank you!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!This is the third and final part of this series based on the book, Surfing the Edge of Chaos.  I’ve been talking with Jason Coker about the role of disequilibrium in regard to systems and organizations; specifically, that the experience of disequilibrium actually makes a system or organization stronger.And that goes for churches, as well, since churches are systems.  When a church lingers for too long in a state of equilibrium—where everything is, y’know, fine—it actually becomes weaker and more at risk of dying.  But when a church experiences disequilibrium at the edge of chaos—and is able to navigate that experience wisely—it becomes stronger, more resilient, and healthier.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jason Coker shares how he is doing in light of current events, particularly the call for racial justice.The four principles of Surfing the Edge of Chaos are:Equilibrium is a precursor to death.  When a living system is in a state of equilibrium, it is less responsive to changes occurring around it.  This places it at maximum risk.In the face of threat, or when galvanized by a compelling opportunity, living things move toward the edge of chaos.  This condition evokes higher levels of mutation and experimentation, and fresh new solutions are more likely to be found.When this excitation takes place, the components of living systems self-organize and new forms and repertoires emerge from the turmoil.Living systems cannot be directed along a linear path.  Unforeseen consequences are inevitable.  The challenge is to disturb them in a manner that approximates the desired outcome.Markus explains self-organization using the examples of dental plaque and Tupperware.Jason discusses the non-denominational movement of the 1960s and 1970s as an example of self-organization.As churches are unable to meet in person during the coronavirus, what kind of self-organizing is taking place now?Leaders have to step back and let go of control when self-organization begins to take place.Jason discusses Black Lives Matter as a movement that is unable to be controlled by more established black leaders.To be a strong leader is not necessarily to take control, but to refuse to take control.Jason shares how his church went through a two-year process of discernment that led his church to change their name from First Christian Church of Oceanside to Oceanside Sanctuary.Change happens “at first slowly” and then “all of a sudden.”RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jason CokerOceanside SanctuaryBooks mentioned:Surfing the Edge of Chaos:  The Laws of Nature and the New Laws of Business, by Richard T. Pascale, et.al.Beyond Thingification Study Guide— Links to Amazon are affiliate links.  If you make a purchase through any of these links, I’ll receive a small commission–which will help pay for the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.