
Spiritual Life and Leadership
Ministry leadership is about more than just growing your church or organization. It’s about participating in God’s mission in the world. But how can leaders know God’s mission or their unique place in it? Faithful ministry leadership is rooted in a life of deep and abiding faithfulness to Jesus. In “Spiritual Life and Leadership,” Markus Watson and his guests explore what it means to be faithful leaders whose ministry flows from their ever-deepening relationship with God.
Latest episodes

Aug 16, 2022 • 49min
135. Leading Your Church Through Political Division, with Allen Hilton, author of A House United
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Allen Hilton is the author of A House United: How the Church Can Save the World and founder of the non-profit, A House United. In this episode, we discuss the rise of political divisiveness that has invaded our churches. And we address what we can do about it.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Allen Hilton is the author of A House United: How The Church Can Save the World. Allend Hilton has been a New Testament professor at Yale Divinty School, has served as a pastor for 15 years, and in 2016 started a non-profit called A House United.The problem that America is facing today is that we don’t “stay at the table.”According to Allen Hilton, the church bears responsibility for the polarization in America today.Allen Hilton shows how the church throughout history—even the early church—has been prone to polarization.In choosing the twelve disciples, Jesus chose people who were politically diametrically opposed to each other.Allen Hilton suggests that if we can get 70% of Christians to be willing to have conversations with people they disagree with, things will begin to change.They way we increase shalom is by getting good at being together across difference.People’s primary identity is their political affiliation. If churches never address politics in our discourse, then we will fail to connect with what is most important to people.Allen Hilton explains Mission 4.0:Mission 1.0 is evangelism.Mission 2.0 is charity and service.Mission 3.0 is justice.Mission 4.0 is unity in the church and beyond the church.Allen Hilton does a daily devotional which you can sign up for HERE.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Allen Hilton:House United Movement websiteNewsletterE-mail: allen@houseunitedmovement.orgBooks mentioned:A House United, by Allen HiltonGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Aug 2, 2022 • 34min
134. How to Help Your City Thrive, with Amy Sherman, author of Agents of Flourishing
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Amy Sherman is the author of Agents of Flourishing and a Senior Fellow at the Sagamore Institute. In this conversation, Amy is going to help us understand six “community endowments”—six arenas of life—that need to be strong in order for those communities to truly be flourishing communities. And then Amy gives us some great starting points to help us discern how God may be calling us to contribute to and strengthen those endowments in our communities.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Amy Sherman is the author of Agents of Flourishing and a Senior Fellow at the Sagamore Institute.Agents of Flourishing is a response to the need Amy Sherman sensed from pastors and ministry leaders—the need to know how to bring shalom into the world.Amy Sherman explains that shalom is a Hebraic concept referring to total wholeness.Jesus came into the world as an agent of flourishing. Jesus brought shalom into the world and calls us to join him in the ongoing work of restoring shalom.Amy Sherman structured Agents of Flourishing around six “community endowments,” originally developed by the Thriving Cities Group.The six community endowments are:The TrueThe GoodThe BeautifulThe Just and Well-orderedThe SustainableThe ProsperousA city that is strong in only one or two these won’t be a truly thriving city. Cities need all (or at least most) of these endowments to be strong.The goal of Agents of Flourising is to help pastors and churches take stock of their own gifts and passions and discern which of these endowments they might contribute to.Amy Sherman encourages churches to take stock of their assets. This might include physical assets like buildings and classrooms, relational assets like partnerships with other churches or organizations, and financial assets.Amy Sherman also recommends assessing the strengths, gifts, and assets of the community outside the church.Too often churches rush to start a new program. Sometimes it’s better to partner with an organization already doing good work.Made to Flourish, together with Amy Sherman, designed a helpful “Skill Mapping Survey.”You can find out more about Amy Sherman at the Sagamore Institute’s Center on Faith in Communities website.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Sagamore InstituteCenter on Faith in CommunitiesThriving Cities GroupMade to FlourishSkill Mapping SurveyBooks mentioned:Agents of Flourishing, by Amy ShermanKingdom Calling, by Amy SherGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Jul 19, 2022 • 40min
133. Partners Not Projects, with Scott Sabin, Executive Director of Plant with Purpose
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Scott Sabin is the Executive Director of Plant with Purpose, an organization that works with people in poverty all over the world to restore the land where they live so that they can become self-sustaining. It’s an organization that recognizes that they are not the saviors of the poor, they are partners who work with the poor.In this episode, Scott shares about the work of Plant with Purpose. Then, Scott and Markus draw connections between the way Plant with Purpose does its mission work and how the healthiest churches do ministry in their neighborhoods. And it all comes down to recognizing people as "partners, not projects."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDES:Scott Sabin is the Executive Director of Plant With Purpose, author of Tending to Eden, and an elder at Mount Soledad Presbyterian Church.The mission of Plant with Purpose begins with the recognition that many of the world’s poorest people depend directly on the well-being of the land for their survival.Plant with Purpose works to alleviate poverty in three ways:Environmental restorationEconomic empowerment through Purpose Groups (savings groups)Spiritual renewal through a biblically based curriculumPlant with Purpose focuses its work around watersheds for a variety of practical reasons.Once Plant with Purpose identifies an area in which to work, they begin networking with local leaders.Asset-mapping is an important component of Plant with Purpose’s work. What are the assets in a particular community?Plant with Purpose seeks to collaborate with other organizations in the area.It is critical to hear from all the different parts of a community (not just one or two groups).The staff that does the work locally are local to the region (or, at least, local to the country). They are not outsiders.Plant with Purpose views the people the serve as “partners, not projects.”Scott and Markus reflect on how Plant with Purpose’s strategies and methods could be applied to local church ministry.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Plant with PurposeBooks mentioned:Tending to Eden, by Scott SabinWalking with the Poor, by Bryant MyersBeyond Thingification, by Markus WatsonRelated episodes:Episode 115: Poverty Alleviation and Spiritual Leadership, with Rob Gailey, author of Development in MissionGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Jul 5, 2022 • 48min
132. The Role of Nostalgia in Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Roberts and Tod Bolsinger
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Mark Roberts is the former Executive Director of Fuller Seminary’s DePree Center for Leadership. Mark now leads the Third Third Initiative at the DePree Center.In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss three clips from a recent webinar by Mark Roberts on the topic of nostalgia. We learn about the difference between historical nostalgia and personal nostalgia. We discuss the positive effects of nostalgia. And then we reflect on how to lead people pastorally through the experience of nostalgia. THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tod Bolsinger is the Executive Director of Fuller Seminary’s Church Leadership Institute and the author of Canoeing the Mountains and Tempered Resilience.Mark Roberts is the former Executive Director of Fuller Seminary’s DePree Center for Leadership. Mark now leads the Third Third Initiative at the DePree Center.Mark Roberts and Tod Bolsinger have been friends for a long time. The topic of this podcast episode came about as they were talking over dinner about the value of nostaligia.Mark Roberts, Clip 1: The difference between historical nostalgia and personal nostalgia.Historical nostalgia has to do with thinking the past is better than the present.Many churches are in decline. If they try to go back to the glory days, they decline even faster.Mark Roberts, Clip 2: The Positive Effects of NostalgiaPersonal nostalgia is a bittersweet yearning for the past.Part of personal nostalgia is knowing you can’t go back; so it’s not trying to go back.Nostalgia shouldn’t make you go back to the past. It should energize you to live more fully in the present.There is something lifegiving about nostalgia.Reframing the values of the past to be the healthiest expression of the future is what is lifegiving to a church.Churches have to help people grieve that we’re never going to go back to the past.Mark Roberts, Clip 3: Two Pastoral Responses to NostalgiaWhen people feel nostalgic about their church, the pastor can 1) turn the nostalgia to gratitude or 2) acknowledge the bittersweetness of remembering the pastGratitude is critical in a healthy, mature organization.Gratitude reminds us that God was faithful in the past and will be faithful as we move into the future.Attunement accelerates change.Attunement is what happens when people empathize with each other and their brains start firing together.The Church Leadership Institute’s Adaptive Church Leadership Cohort is designed to help churches respond to nostalgia in a healthy way so that they can navigate and lead change in a healthy way as they move into the future.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Church Leadership InstituteAdaptive Church Leadership CohortDePree Center for LeadershipGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Jun 21, 2022 • 34min
131. Spiritual Leadership in the Digital Space, with Laura Murray
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!What is a digital silent retreat? In this episode, Laura Murray, a pastor and spiritual director, will tell the story of how she began to use Zoom to lead digital silent retreats while people were quarantining due to Covid, as well as offer insight into how to lead your own digital silent retreats. THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDES:Laura Murray is a pastor, a spiritual director, and regularly hosts digital silent retreats.Laura started leading digital silent retreats as a response to the experience of isolation due to the Covid quarantine that began in March 2020.Laura Murray knew it was important for people to have solitude and silence, but also to have connection—to be able to talk about their experience and what they were feeling.Laura explains how the digital silent retreat is structured.Participants in the digital silent retreats are asked to prepare before they show up, such as putting it on your calendar and letting their families know they’ll be unavailable during that time.The digital silent retreats are limited to the host plus eight people.Participants tend to find courage from one another in their sharing in the digital space.Laura Murray reflects on whether it would be better if they met in person.Meeting by Zoom has some advantages over in-person. For instance, it levels the group socio-economically.According to Laura Murray, hospitality is a cornerstone practice for the digital silent retreats.Two other key practices are generosity and spacious guidance.Hospitality creates safe space for people to open up. Hospitality also has boundaries.Laura Murray helps us understand the connection between leadership and hospitality.We need to have a clear “why” when doing digital silent retreats.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Laura Murray:Website – www.laurabmurray.com/retreatsBooks mentioned:This Here Flesh, by Cole Arthur RileyChurch Leadership InstituteGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Jun 7, 2022 • 35min
130. Pursuing Your Purpose, with Nicholas Pearce, author of The Purpose Path
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Nicholas Pearce is the author of The Purpose Path. He is also Clinical Professor of Management & Organizations at Northwestern University Kellogg School of Management and Founder & CEO of The Vocati Group.In this episode, Nicholas Pearce discusses what success really is. Spoiler alert—it has nothing to do with bigger, better, and more. It has to do with faithfully following the purpose to which God has called us.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Nicholas Pearce is the author of The Purpose Path. He is also Clinical Professor of Management & Organizations at Northwestern University Kellogg School of Management and Founder & CEO of The Vocati Group.Nicholas Pearce says that many of us learn to define success from an early age based on how those around us define success.The question, “What is success?” is best answered by faithfulness.According to Nicholas Pearce, success is best thought of as simple faithfulness one decision at a time.Many people climb the ladder of success, but feel like failures when they get to the top.Our definitions of success are like rudders that orient us in certain directions, impacting our sense of purpose.Nicholas Pearce makes the case that sometimes moments of purpose present themselves as distractions or disruptions.Nicholas Pearce shares how he has had to redefine success in his own life in order to more faithfully pursue his purpose.Sometimes we need to pivot when pursuing our purpose.God is not always going to do the miraculous. Sometimes God just wants to see if you’ll put into practice what you know.Nicholas Pearce suggests that instead of praying for clarity, maybe we should be praying for courage, specifically vocational courage.Nicholas Pearce offers words of advice and encouragement for ministry leaders and pastors who are struggling to follow their purpose path.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Nicholas Pearce:Twitter - @napphdInstagram - @napphdWebsite – www.nicholaspearce.orgBooks mentioned:The Purpose Path: A Guide to Pursuing Your Authentic Life's Work, by Nicholas PearceBrighter by the Day: Waking Up to New Hopes and Dreams, by Robin RobertsChurch Leadership InstituteGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

4 snips
May 24, 2022 • 45min
129. Recalibrating the Church Around Jesus, with Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch, authors of ReJesus
Authors Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch discuss the need to recalibrate the church around Jesus. They address the challenges faced by the evangelical church and the importance of refocusing on Jesus' teachings. The conversation highlights the significance of discipleship and the essential role of embodying Christ's values in the church community.

May 10, 2022 • 41min
128. Letting Go of the Solo-Heroic Leader in You, with Bryan Sims, author of Leading Together
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Bryan Sims is the author of Leading Together: The Holy Possibility of Harmony and Synergy in the Face of Change. He is also a coach with Spiritual Leadership Inc. and a professor at Asbury Theological Serminary.In this episode, Bryan Sims discusses the importance of shared leadership. As we lead through these challenging times, leaders need to be able to bring people together—to draw on all our gifts and talents and knowledge. We are called to lead healthy teams of people in order to fully participate in God’s mission in the world. We cannot do it alone.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Bryan Sims is the author of Leading Together: The Holy Possibility of Harmony and Synergy in the Face of Change and is a coach with Spiritual Leadership Inc. and a professor at Asbury Theological Seminary.Bryan Sims explains that healthy leadership requires working together and harmony among those that are working together, especially as we are living in times of disequilibrium.Disequilibrium creates a space of high possibility.Bryan Sims explains what he means by “technical challenges” and “adaptive challenges.”Covid has been a time of intense adaptive challenge.Overcoming adaptive challenges requires shared leadership.Shared leadership can involve staff, church members, and even people outside the church or organization.Kenosis is the Greek word that captures the self-emptying nature of Jesus. Healthy church leadership, according to Bryan Sims, also kenotic in nature. Controlling and manipulating is the opposite of kenosis.Bryan Sims demonstrates the early church exhibited kenotic shared leadership because they learned that kind of leadership from Jesus.Adaptive shared leadership is actually quite pastoral.Bryan Sims, in his work, asks a really important question: How do we discern what God is doing and how do we join God in that?Bryan Sims suggests that every leader needs a coach, a spiritual director, and a counselor.For leaders wanting to engage in shared leadership, Bryan Sims suggests finding a person with whom they can process their leadership challenges.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Bryan Sims:Website – www.bryandsims.comChurch Leadership Inc.:Website - www.spiritual-leadership.orgBooks mentioned:Leading Together, by Bryan SimsSurfing the Edge of Chaos, by Richard Pascale, Mark Milleman, and Linda GiojaCanoeing the Mountains, by Tod BolsingerGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Apr 26, 2022 • 46min
127. From Sunday-centric to Mission-centric, with Jon Ritner, author of Positively Irritating
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Jon Ritner is the author of Positively Irritating: Embracing a Post-Christian World to Form a More Faithful and Innovative Church. In this episode, we discuss what it means to be the church in a post-Christendom world. How can the church be the kind of church that a Post-Christendom world actually needs—and the kind of church that God is calling the church to be?THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jon Ritner is the author of Positively Irritating: Embracing a Post-Christian World to Form a More Faithful and Innovative Church and has served as lead at Ecclesia Hollywood for the last seven.After serving as an executive pastor of a megachurch, Jon Ritner eventually made his way to a microchurch network in Brussels, Belgium. Later, Jon Ritner and his wife moved to Hollywood to help churches adapt and innovate in an increasingly post-Christendom world.The early church existed in a pluralistic pre-Christian culture.Jon Ritner uses the metaphor of an oyster to help us understand that challenges, when approached with a posture of learning and embrace, can lead to beauty.Thanks to Covid, we have just spent the last two years in a liminal space.The mission of God is not just the conversion of every individual soul. It’s the redemption and restoration of all of creation.Jon Ritner argues that ministry should happen throughout the week in all the places where God’s people are. Then they can come together to celebrate on Sundays.For many people today, going to church is almost a cross-cultural experience.Jon Ritner explains that many churches unconsciously create an insider-outsider divide when they announce that if someone wants to find belonging they have to come to the church.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jon Ritner:E-mail: jonritner@gmail.comWebsite: www.jonritner.comBooks mentioned:Missional Church, edited by Darrell GuderPositively Irritating, by Jon RitnerThe Master Plan of Evangelism, by Robert E. ColemanChurch Leadership InstituteRelated Episodes:Ep 2: What is the Mission of God?, with Markus WatsonEp 12: God is a Woman in Labor, with Christiana RiceEp 24: Joining God’s Mission Through Neighborhood Exegesis, with Marcos MujicaEp 43: Introduction to “Beyond Thingification: Helping Your Church Engage in God’s Mission”Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Apr 12, 2022 • 37min
126. A Crisis of Adult Discipleship, with Brian Wallace, Executive Director of the Center for Spiritual Formation
Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!The church is experiencing what Brian Wallace calls a crisis of adult discipleship. We have plenty of people going to church. But that doesn’t necessarily translate into faithful, deep discipleship.In this episode Brian Wallace discusses how to address that challenge. Brian is the Executive Director of Fuller Seminary’s Center for Spiritual Formation, and he helps us understand the critical components necessary for deep spiritual formation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Brian Wallace is the Executive Director of the Fuller Center for Spiritual Formation.As a pastor in a megachurch, Brian Wallace knew there was a crisis of adult discipleship.The vision of the Center for Spiritual Formation is to empower leaders everywhere to grow and send everyone.In Renovation of the Heart, Dallas Willard says we are always being formed.Spiritual formation is the determination to let Jesus be in charge of who we become.Brian Wallace says we are the representation of God’s goodness in the world.The reason we have a crisis of formation is because, according to Brian Wallace, we have placed information at the center of the formative process.No one has ever been invited to follow Jesus by themselves.We are formed spiritually when we are in a safe place—not safe from challenge and conviction, but safe from shame and guilt.According to Brian Wallace, relationships are critically important in our journey to becoming more like Jesus.How do we help our congregations be engage in deep spiritual formation when most of our church members only attend church once or twice a month?Fuller Formation Groups (part of the Center for Spiritual Formation) are designed to help churches lead their congregations into deep spiritual formation.The calculus of transformation is an informed practice in a reflective community over time.Brian Wallace says spiritual formation requires time. Not many hours in a week, but many weeks over time.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Books mentioned:In the Name of Jesus, by Henri NouwenThe Message of the Sermon on the Mount, by John StottThe Collective Works of C.S. LewisRenovation of the Heart, by Dallas WillardBrian Wallace:E-mail: spiritualformation@fuller.eduRelated episodes:Ep 44: Spiritual Formation and Lectio Divina, with Eric NevinsEp 112: The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark ScandretteEp 119: Being Leaders of GraceGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.