Spiritual Life and Leadership

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!What do you do when the tried-and-true ways of doing church just aren’t working anymore? When everything you once relied on—Sunday services, eye-catching signage, the best coffee in the foyer—still leaves your church feeling disconnected from your community?In this episode, Shannon Kiser, author of Opening Space: A Vision for Fresh Expressions of Church and Creative Mission, shares about what “fresh expressions” of church means, why the old attractional models are no longer enough, and how ministry leaders can begin to reimagine church for a spiritually curious but institutionally wary world.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus Watson shares statistics that reveal most American churches are plateaued or declining, and the majority of major denominations are aging.Shannon Kiser urges church leaders to rethink how they engage with a spiritually curious culture that may be wary of traditional church settings.Many people possess spiritual curiosity even if they are hesitant or unwilling to attend church gatherings.Markus Watson describes how even the physical space of a church building can feel intimidating and unfamiliar to outsiders.Shannon Kiser explains that Fresh Expressions seeks to equip leaders to start new forms of Christian community tailored to their local context.Fresh Expressions focuses on innovative gatherings—like dinner churches, hiking groups, or park meetups—rather than just worship services.Markus Watson asks Shannon Kiser to define Fresh Expressions and how they originated from creative responses to declining church attendance in the UK.Shannon Kiser describes Fresh Expressions as new forms of church that often look very different from traditional Sunday morning gatherings.Healthy churches should diversify their ministry approaches and embrace what Shannon Kiser calls a "blended ecology."Focusing solely on Sunday attendance and budgets is unlikely to reverse church decline.Markus Watson highlights the impact stories from the church’s outreach—such as coffee shops and lunch ministries—can have on the congregation’s spiritual vitality.Congregations can raise their spiritual temperature and feel more alive by engaging in mission outside their traditional gatherings.Shannon Kiser recommends listening to the community and beginning with simple, small experiments that fit the church’s context and resources.Forming Fresh Expressions requires different types of people: pioneers who connect and lead, permission givers who open doors, and supporters who help behind the scenes.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Fresh Expressions websiteBooks mentioned:Opening Space, by Shannon KiserRelated episodes:177. Exploring New Forms of Church, with Shannon Kiser264. Building a Future-Focused church, with Kara Powell, Jake Mulder, and Raymond Chang272. Beyond Church Revitalization, with Josh HaydenGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Learn how real transformation in leadership begins when we shift our focus from what’s happening to us to what’s happening within us.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Chuck DeGroat in Ep. 262, Fro Fired to Flourishing.“I had to turn my attention from what happened to me to what was happening within me."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Change leaders cultivate self-awareness by focusing on their internal responses rather than solely external circumstances.Transformative leadership requires individuals to process their own emotional reactions before leading others through change.Leaders grow when they move beyond blaming external events and explore what pain reveals about their deeper character.Navigating difficult transitions means finding growth by going through challenges, not simply avoiding or getting over them.Lasting change in ministry or leadership begins when individuals reflect on and learn from their personal setbacks.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!More and more, we find ourselves living in what we might call a post-Christian society.  And more and more, preachers and ministry leaders are finding that the methods they were trained in don’t always resonate in a post-Christian context. In this episode, Mark Glanville, the author of Preaching in a New Key, brings together his experience as a jazz musician, pastor, and a scholar of the Old Testament to invite us into a new vision for preaching—one that helps us navigate the transition from Christian to post-Christian culture. THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Mark Glanville explains that both jazz and Christian faith involve learning and internalizing tradition, then improvising freshly within it.Jazz musicians practice and absorb the rhythms and melodies of their tradition, but always play something new in performance.Mark Glanville illustrates how biblical preachers should immerse themselves in scripture, becoming shaped by its themes and stories, much like jazz musicians learn their craft.The biblical tradition requires creative and contextual re-interpretation, as seen in how ancient scribes reimagined the metaphor of covenant.Preaching in a post-Christian society means recognizing that faith no longer enjoys cultural support and must grapple with mixed experiences of doubt and trust.Mark Glanville describes post-Christian contexts as places where church and societal values diverge, making the preaching task more complex.Congregants bring complex emotional and spiritual questions to church, rather than the simple expectation of receiving trusted doctrine.Markus Watson notes that contemporary preaching requires greater sensitivity, awareness of listeners’ stories, and often more lyrical, dialogical communication.Mark Glanville emphasizes gaining relational intelligence through ongoing pastoral conversations and deep listening with parishioners.Preaching today involves “reversing the flow”—rather than proclaiming “thus says the Lord,” preachers reveal the beauty of Jesus within the text and invite fresh connection.Mark Glanville highlights that healthy preaching depends on the preacher’s own healthy inner and emotional life.Preachers must recognize when they are operating from their “defended self”—speaking from wounds or fear, rather than from a secure, loving place in Christ.Scripture addresses communities, not individuals, so preaching should prioritize communal formation and invite congregations to embody Christ together.Mark Glanville encourages pastors to preach, model, and pray for the transformation they seek, stirring the congregation’s collective imagination and trusting the Spirit to work through everyone, not just the leadership.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Mark Glanville:Website – www.markglanville.orgBlue Note Theology podcastBooks mentioned:Preaching in a New Key, by Mark GlanvilleRefuge Reimagined, by Mark Glanville and Luke GlanvilleRelated episodes:250. The Prophetic Challenge of Deconstruction, with Scot McKnight256. Digital Disruption and the Future of the ChurchClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Discover why true leadership means having the courage to make tough decisions—even when it means disappointing the people you care about most.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Rich Stearns in Ep. 105, Courageous Leadership."Leaders have to make difficult decisions.  And difficult decisions require courage."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders cultivate courage by making difficult decisions that may disappoint their own people.Adaptive leaders accept that faithfully living out the mission often requires sacrificing personal approval.Great leaders guide people through uncomfortable transformation, not just toward easy change.Leaders strengthen their courage by surrounding themselves with friends, partners, and mentors.True leadership calls communities to transformational journeys, even when the leader personally bears the cost.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!In a world that celebrates rapid growth, platform-building, and constant success, it’s easy to take on leadership strategies that promise bigger, better, and faster results. But when these approaches clash with the invitation of Jesus to embrace the cross, where does true, lasting influence come from?In this episode, Nicole Massie Martin, author of Nailing It, unpacks the spiritual paradox at the heart of healthy leadership—how surrender, humility, and even seasons of struggle can form us as leaders and empower the people we serve.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCUDE:Christian leaders often merge values like maximizing and growing their ministries, risking a "resurrection only" mindset that ignores suffering.Markus Watson highlights that the moments of deepest closeness with God often emerge from times of pain.Nicole Martin frames power neutrally, stating that its impact depends on how leaders use it—to empower or to hoard.Power must be used for God’s glory and for empowering others, not for self-aggrandizement.Markus Watson admits that the temptation for influence and control is a real struggle in leadership, even when intentions are good.Nicole Martin explains that surrendering power as a leader looks like developing teams and creating an environment where others feel empowered to fulfill their calling.Nicole Martin shares a personal story of feeling powerless as a board member until another leader affirmed her authority and encouraged her participation.Empowerment should be modeled by leaders who intentionally invite others to use their own power and gifts.Ego is complex and influenced by cultural worldviews such as honor-shame, guilt-innocence, and power-fear.Nicole Martin emphasizes the importance of anchoring one’s self-worth in the love of God, not in achievement or shame.Markus Watson describes how personal failure and pain loosened his unhealthy grip on ego and led him to ground his worth in being God’s beloved.Nicole Martin asserts that healthy ego in leadership is characterized by deep confidence, humility, and openness, rooted in one’s belovedness by God.Leaders must recalibrate their pace and surrender speed to God’s timing, resisting the burnout that comes from adopting the relentless pace of the world.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Christianity TodaySoulfire International MinistriesBooks mentioned:Nailing It, by Nicole Massie MartinLife of the Beloved, by Henri NouwenAbba’s Child, by Brennan ManningSurrender to Love, by David BennerEmotionally Healthy Spirituality, by Peter ScazeroFalling Upward, by Richard RohrRelated episodes:112. The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Scandrette252. Navigating the Pain of Being Othered, with Jenai AumanClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!In a post-pandemic world, what does it really mean to be a “small,” “mid-sized,” or even “very large” church? Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger explore Thom Rainer’s recommendations to recategorize church size, reflect on the unique strengths and challenges of congregations of all sizes, and examine why church health and faithfulness matter more than impressive attendance numbers. Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or simply curious about the evolving landscape of church leadership, this episode challenges us to rethink our assumptions—and reminds us that fruitful ministry comes in every size.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this article by Thom Rainer: "The New Very Large Church."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Church leaders reframe success by focusing on fruitfulness rather than congregation size.Pastors adapt their leadership style to match the unique needs of different-sized churches.Post-pandemic, churches redefine size categories to reflect new attendance realities.Faithful, missionally active congregations thrive regardless of their numerical growth.Discernment and subtraction become vital leadership skills when resources decrease.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Work hurt is real, and ministry leaders aren’t exempt. Whether it’s being let go, navigating toxic work environments, or simply enduring deep disappointments, our vocational pain can shape us in ways we never expected—and often never wanted.In this episode, author of When Work Hurts, shares her own journey through work hurt, explores the different ways leaders experience vocational pain, and offers practical and spiritual resources for healing and resilience. THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Meryl Herr shares her personal story of “work hurt” and how it led her to address the topic in her work and writing. Meryl Herr describes feeling disillusioned early in her career when her expectations for work did not align with reality, leading to discouragement and even unexpected job loss. Work hurt occurs when people sustain physical or psychological injuries in their workplace. Meryl Herr categorizes work hurt as stemming from toxic systems, unhealthy cultures, issues of job fit, and personal mistakes. Work hurt can be experienced as disappointment, disillusionment, or devastation, each having different causes and emotional impacts. Meryl Herr notes that people’s tolerance for disappointment, disillusionment, and devastation is highly individual. Significant numbers of workers experience work hurt, including burnout, discrimination, and disengagement, as reflected in recent research and statistics. Discrimination and harassment at work affect certain demographic groups more acutely, highlighting systemic injustice and inequity. Meryl Herr stresses the need for individuals to acknowledge and process their work-related pain, rather than internalizing it or transmitting it to others. If people do not transform their work pain, they risk transmitting it as cynicism, projection, or stress in personal and family relationships. Community support, honest conversation, prayer—especially lament—and listening to God are central strategies for healing from work hurt. Meryl Herr encourages practices of discerning God’s presence and call, likening vocational discernment to “wayfinding” that requires attention to context, one’s gifts, and God’s invitation. Being called to a vocation or job does not mean one is exempt from pain or suffering; Meryl Herr and Markus Watson both connect this to biblical examples of hardship in the midst of calling. Pastors play an important role by understanding and addressing the work hurt in their congregations and by providing practical, emotional, and spiritual support. Meryl Herr recommends cultivating “everyday faithfulness,” showing up and doing the daily work set before us as a foundational way to keep moving forward through disruption, loss, and fear.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Meryl Herr:Website – www.merylherr.comDePree Center for LeadershipBooks mentioned:When Work Hurts, by Meryl HerrFalling Upward, by Ruchard RohrRelated episodes:114. Meaningful Work, with Michaela O’Donnell125. Fruitful Leadership, with Tom NelsonClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Drawing on the challenges of feeling marginalized and the importance of resting in God’s love, this episode explores the vital role that self-compassion plays in leadership. Tod Bolsinger shares wisdom on facing anxiety and insecurity, especially when leaders are stepping into the unknown and leaving behind their expertise. Instead of "faking it till you make it," Tod encourages authenticity, resilience, and building trust within a community.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Jenai Auman in Ep. 252: Navigating the Pain of Being “Othered”:"Sometimes I need to experience self-compassion and quell the insecurity within me so I can extend compassion and love to my neighbor."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders cultivate self compassion to address their own insecurity before extending compassion to others.Adaptive leaders acknowledge their anxiety and insecurity rather than suppressing or faking confidence.Leaders practice honesty with themselves and those they lead about the difficulties and uncertainties of new challenges.Leaders invite trustworthy people to join them in facing the unknown, creating a supportive environment.Leaders embrace authenticity and vulnerability as central to healthy and transformative leadership.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Josh Hayden, the author of Remissioning Church: A Field guide for Bringing a Congregation Back to Life, shares wisdom from his own journey—moving from church planting to leading a 158-year-old congregation—and he helps us understand the difference between revitalization and remissioning.  He also talks about the power of what he calls “creative destruction” and reflects on the hope that churches and people really can change. If you are a ministry leader wondering how to lead your church through deep transformation and discovering a renewed mission, you’ll find both encouragement and practical guidance in this conversation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Josh Hayden explains that remissioning involves inside-out transformation of the church through discipleship for the sake of neighbors and the world.Revitalization focuses on refreshing existing programs, while remissioning addresses deeper, DNA-level transformation.Josh Hayden underscores the importance of listening first—both to the church and the neighborhood—before making plans for change.Markus Watson highlights the challenge new pastors face in established churches, including resistance, sabotage, and managing change.Remissioning leaders must exegete both their congregation and their community to identify gaps and opportunities for meaningful connection.Josh Hayden stresses that successful remissioning requires teamwork; pastors must not attempt change alone.Markus Watson reflects on the emotional challenges of change, including the shame spiral that can occur when a church confronts its shortcomings.Josh Hayden illustrates the shame spiral with an example of unnoticed “No Running in the Halls” signs that undermined stated values of hospitality.Remissioning involves inviting the congregation into a process of repentance, learning, and transformation, rather than imposing outside solutions.Josh Hayden shares how tradition-to-innovation means honoring a church’s history while translating it into practices that serve current needs.Experiments in ministry should create shared experiences that allow for evaluation, learning, and adaptation over time.Josh Hayden describes creative destruction as embracing necessary endings so new life can emerge, drawing analogy from nature and industry.Effective change involves creating feedback loops, town hall conversations, and allowing time for the congregation to process and adapt.Not all experiments or changes need to succeed; failed experiments still provide valuable lessons for ongoing transformation.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Josh Hayden:Iwa Collabora websiteBooks mentioned:Remissioning Church, by Josh HaydenCanoeing the Mountains, by Tod BolsingerRelated episodes:16. Canoeing the Mountains, with Tod Bolsinger192. Leading Change Without Authority, with Roy Inzunza264. Building a Future-Focused Church, with Kara Powell, Jake MGet Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger unpack the fascinating connection between the Latin roots of “prayer” and “precarious”—suggesting that it’s often in our most uncertain moments that we’re drawn into deeper dependence on God. Together, they explore how precarious situations not only shape our leadership but also form and mature our prayer lives. You’ll also hear practical wisdom on leading others in prayer through times of change and how discernment, rather than just asking God to bless our plans, is central to a healthy approach to leadership.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Jeff Hoffmeyer in Ep. 246: Have We Forgotten to Pray?:"The Latin word for prayer is the same root for ‘precarious’. So, I think when we're in a precarious situation, God's desire is that we'll be driven to dependence on prayer."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders cultivate their prayer lives in the midst of precarious situations.Leaders experience spiritual formation when they become aware of their dependence on God.Leaders guide their congregations into discernment by seeking God’s voice together.Leaders model a deep prayer life by honestly acknowledging their limitations.Leaders resist making plans independently and instead invite God to direct their path.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.