The Negotiation

Ambassador Barton Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      The major trends witnessed by Ambassador Barton in China since the early 2000s●      What lessons should the West learn from China’s drastic growth over the past two decades?●      Why Ambassador Barton wrote China Vignettes in 2008 and the book’s main takeaways●      Key thinkers and thought leaders in China and the broader APAC region that Ambassador Barton followsSarah Kutulakos Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      The most promising sectors in China today●      What the West can learn from China●      How business relationships between China and the West may change●      Whether China is experience an over supply of white-collar workers●      Interesting pivots that have taken place in response to the pandemic Episode Summary:Dominic Barton, Canadian Ambassador to the People's Republic of China.Previously, he spent close to 20 years working for McKinsey & Company with a focus on China, at first serving as Chairman of Asia for the firm before taking the helm of Global Managing Director from 2009 to 2018 amid China’s rising prominence on the world stage.Other leadership roles that Ambassador Barton has held in the business world include Chairman of Teck Resources and as Non-Executive Director at the Singtel Group in Singapore and Investor AB in Sweden.Speaking on the trends he has personally seen play out over the past 15 years in China, Ambassador Barton notes that urbanization, infrastructure and logistics, education and the bolstering of human capital, and technocratic leadership have all been top priorities for the country, and will continue to be through to 2030 and perhaps even beyond.There are many lessons that the West can take away from China’s drastic growth over the past two decades, the most important of which, according to Ambassador Barton, is to not treat China as a “monolith”.Rather than looking at it as “China Inc.”, operated solely by its government, the U.S., Canada, and Europe would benefit from acknowledging the different layers that influence the Chinese economy, which also include small to large businesses, consumers, and regional differences between each.Ambassador Barton goes on to touch on the main insights he covers in his 2008 book China Vignettes and why he decided to dedicate the work to the country’s human element.Finally, Ambassador Barton shares his favorite key thinkers and thought leaders on China and the APAC region. Noting the importance of “balancing the macro with the micro”, he lists a wide range of resources, including works of fiction that offer unique perspectives on the Chinese people that one would not be able to find in any textbook.Episode Summary:Sarah Kutulakos, COO & Executive Director of the Canada China Business CouncilSarah talks about her conversations with Western organizations in China regarding current market conditions and where the business world is headed in a post-pandemic society.Canada’s exports to China have only continued to grow in 2021 since the onset of the COVID-19. In particular, the raw materials, consumer, and energy sectors have seen favorable conditions in the past year-and-a-half. In the long-run financial services should also fare well.Sarah describes the most enthusiastic Western organizations in China in this way: “If you are aligned with China’s policies—which would include things like the five-year plan, increasing consumption for their new economic model, etc.—then you’re probably more excited about the market.”“The ability to turn on a dime—that flexibility in business,” is the top quality that Sarah believes every company should try to emulate. Applying this to CCBC, Sarah always encourages Canadian companies to embrace speed and “be more aggressive in going after China.”In a very short period of time, China has transformed its market into a leader with regard to its big data capabilities, and in its emphasis on the consumer as king.Another reality that came about relatively recently is that improved education—not to mention greater access to universities today—has resulted in countless qualified Chinese nationals that are highly sought after by multinationals. Ambassador Key Quotes:“I think there’s too much of a view in the West of treating China like a monolith: It’s China. It’s the government. When we do that—and we all tend to want to simplify stuff as humans—we should first think about our own countries, whether that be Canada or the United States. What is an American? What is a Canadian? We’re all different. And I really think that that gets lost in the haze of ‘China Inc.’” “[I wrote China Vignettes because] I felt I was being too economics-driven or macro-driven [...] and not really thinking deeply enough about the people: What is the consumer like and how might they be changing?”Sarah Key Quotes:“If you are aligned with China’s policies—which would include things like the five-year plan, increasing consumption for their new economic model, etc.—then you’re probably more excited about the market. “[Chinese] companies don’t get married to a particular business model and they move fast to meet opportunities in the market.” “One of the things we’ve tried to do with CCBC is to keep going at that clock speed and to encourage Canadian companies to be more aggressive about going after China, because they tend to sometimes be a little complacent and that puts us at a disadvantage versus Americans or Europeans that might be more energetic in the market.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      Joseph reminisces on his time in Beijing during its “up-and-coming” days in the early 2000s●      How differently entrepreneurship was regarded in China from 2000 to 2010●      How Joseph’s footwear design house became the number one seller in the shoe category on Kickstarter in 2013 and 2014●      The opportunities that came out of Joseph’s time at Tangential Consulting●      Best practices for setting up a business in China●      Countries that are particularly more difficult to penetrate●      Advantages and challenges of working at a company based in China as an ex-pat●      The evolution, and the future, of urban mobility Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Joseph Constanty, who has been steeped in China's business world for over 16 years. Since 2016, he has been the Director of International at NIU Technologies.As the largest smart scooter company in the world, NIU has been doubling down on its international expansion efforts as the global economy continues to rebound strongly from the lockdowns of the past year and a half.Alongside his work with NIU, Joseph is also a Co-Founder and Advisor at NextStep Studio, an accelerator specializing in the food tech and F&B companies in China.Having entered China back in the early-to-mid 2000s, Joseph reflects on why entrepreneurs were a rare sight back in the day, and the factors that led up to China’s drastic rise to becoming a force to be reckoned with when it comes to innovation and commerce.He compares Beijing in particular to Southeast Asia. While these countries may differ culturally from China, they are now exhibiting the same drive and resourcefulness that the tier 1 cities are known for. He regards them as primed for exponential growth in the very near future.Joseph goes on to share how he found success in a variety of fields in China’s startup world; how he helped to build the largest smart scooter company in the world and a shoe brand that became the most funded footwear Kickstarter project two years in a row.He also describes the advantages and challenges of working at a company based in China as an ex-pat and explains why those looking to found a company in China should consider initially establishing it as a consultancy.Finally, Joseph speaks on changes in and the future of urban mobility through the years and how COVID has impacted the industry. Key Quotes:“[In the early 2000s, entrepreneurs] didn’t exist because, culturally, it wasn’t acceptable for them. Their parents, or those born between 1975 and 1985, needed to get a job, get married, buy a house, have a kid, be financially successful, and do all that by the time they’re 30. Running a startup wasn’t part of that equation.” “What we took away from Kickstarter was simply the power of storytelling and building a brand from nothing. We were literally building it with almost zero marketing and just riding the Kickstarter traffic and influencing those people that were interested in helping makers at the time through the story we were telling.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      Opportunities in architecture and design within China●      How the design space in the West differs from that of China●      Design trends in China today and potentially going forward●      The relationship between developers and the local government●      The leeway designers have in localizing big foreign brands for China●      China’s design influence beyond its borders Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Andrew Sigfrids of ASIG Design and ASIG BIM. Established in 2010, ASIG Design is a multi-disciplinary architectural design firm specializing in the interior design of restaurants and coffee shops.With offices in Shanghai, China and San Francisco, ASIG has worked with large companies like Starbucks, ABINbev and the Li Ka-shing Foundation, as well as small independent business owners. Andrew also heads New York-based landscape design firm Urban Terrace and San Francisco-based direct-to-consumer furniture brand CABA Design.He speaks on his foray into the architecture and design space in China. Realizing that the industry in China seemed to offer much greater “freedom of design expression” compared to that of America, which requires newer designers to go through a “rite of passage” via years of drafting before being allowed to actually spearhead projects.Another primary difference between the West and China is the cost of construction, which is much higher in the West and leads to more conservative designs. Since the cost of labor in China is lower, designers and architects are given more freedom, from the big-picture project designs to smaller interior details such as the design of sockets.Yet another distinguishing factor in China is “a mixture of owner, client, and consumer drive for wanting something new and different, pushing people through the doors via an interesting space.” Unique, selfie-friendly spaces are also growing in popularity.On the other hand, the West is far more driven by efficiency and brand consistency over innovation. However, many big Western brands are now embracing the reality of localization if they want to do business in China, even if that demands an almost complete rehaul of their established branding in the West. Key Quotes:“Another factor [that differentiates America’s design space from China’s] is a mixture of owner, client, and consumer drive for wanting something new and different. [...] The general Chinese consumer is always seeking something completely new and something completely different. [...] The West is far more driven by efficiencies, in things such as service, and general brand recognition. For us, it’s about pushing people through the doors via an interesting space.” “You feel so free as an individual [in China]. In business, it’s the same. The government typically leaves you alone with how you want to run your business and how you want to make your money—until you get big.” “The path to success in China changes year after year. The success path, entering now in 2021, could actually be very different from how it was in 2016—only five years later. The consumer base has changed so much that you might actually want to go a different route in how you design your space and how that tells the story of your brand.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      Recent and potential developments in the Chinese business world●      Air quality and pollution in China●      Key mistakes that Western organizations make when they take on projects in China●      How foreigners can nurture strong business relationships in China●      How businesses in China can manage their relationship with the government●      Why it is important to be on the ground in the country when doing business in China●      AtmosAir Solutions’ target customer●      How AtmosAir Solutions’ sales funnel in China differs from that of America●      How negotiations take place between two parties in China Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Sam Michael, Executive Director for the China market at AtmosAir Solutions, a leading air purification technology brand from the United States. Sam made his foray into China in 2008 working in real estate, both with Asia's largest industrial developer and one of Europe's most successful luxury outlet developers. He was brought onboard AtmosAir Solutions’ Shanghai office as Executive Director of Sales and Operations in 2015.Since arriving in China a little over a decade ago, Sam has watched the world of commerce change drastically. In response to the explosion of eCommerce solutions, malls and physical retail stores have put more focus on creating experiences for consumers. Hence the rise of F&B in and around retail establishments in China.Alongside this, there has also been increasing interest in the health and wellness space, including air quality—most especially for ex-pats. Sam does not see this trend slowing down in a post-pandemic world, especially since even China’s industrial sector has finally begun to prioritize air quality.For Western companies seeking to do business in China, the number one consideration is localization, which can be done by finding a reliable local partner, or even a Western China expert like Sam himself, who can work alongside the organization on their strategy. By extension—and as it always has been—it helps to forge strong business partnerships, the old-fashioned, face-to-face way, in the China market. Key Quotes:“If I want the thing, then I’ll just buy the thing online. But people need a place to spend their time. [...] So, it’s nice to have these retail centers where the focus of their tenants has been less and less about the products that you’re going to buy and more about the experiences that you’re going to have with them.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      The state of COVID in China going into the second half of 2021●      Why a work-from-home culture is probably not the future for China●      How consumer trends have evolved in the past 18 months●      Sectors to lead the charge in China’s economic growth going forward●      What to expect at the 6.18 shopping festival this year●      The development of the live streaming/commerce craze●      How the IPO of JD’s logistics division will impact consumer behavior, shipping, and logistics in the China market, along with Alibaba’s competitive relationship with JD●      How the Biden administration is doing so far with regard to the U.S.-China trade war Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Jacob Cooke, co-founder of WPIC Marketing and Technologies, to gain an up-to-the-minute understanding of how well China is economically recovering from COVID and what consumer trends to keep an eye on.Asked about the latest developments around COVID in China, Jacob says that the new normal is well underway: establishments are reopening and flight delays are once again a reality. The vaccine rollout has also been fairly smooth, even in big cities like Beijing.Travel, however, is still quite restrictive, severely limiting the opportunity for ex-pats to return to the country. It is unlikely that the work-from-home culture, at least among foreigners with business in China, is here to stay. From the challenges of working in oftentimes widely different time zones to a lack of high-touch relationship-building and collaboration, Jacob simply concludes, “I don’t see work-from-home as being a thing here in China.”Regarding the shifts in consumer trends over time, Jacob says that there has obviously been greater interest in the health and wellness space, particularly around remote classes and online education. Fashion and cosmetics, which had both seen a downturn at the onset of lockdowns, are fast becoming thriving industries once again.Last year’s 6.18 shopping festival saw a much bigger bottom line than 11.11. With the economy’s drastic reawakening in 2021, the outlook for this year’s festival seems even brighter, especially as the popularity of live streaming/commerce continues to organically attract more people to these thriving online consumer communities.JD Logistic’s IPO will incentivize up-and-coming eCommerce platforms to tap into the resources of these giants. By extension, these new platforms will soon have the opportunity to compete on a relatively fairer playing field as long-time monopolies finally begin to operate independently. Key Quotes:“I’ve never been a real huge fan of work-from-home. I think you lose a lot in the collaboration between your team members. I think you lose a lot in terms of the relationship-building, the creativity—those moments of brilliance that you get from just working together. I don’t see work-from-home as being a thing here in China.” “What we like about Southeast Asia as an up-and-coming market is that we’ve got income levels rising very fast, as well as it being a very young base.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      Using the power of design for social impact●      Why Kseniya reframed the Belt & Road Initiative as a “sociospatial set of challenges” in her thesis●      How Ballistic Architecture Machine factors into the New Silk Road●      China’s strengths and weaknesses in architecture and urban design Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Kseniya Otmakhova, a Schwarzman Scholar and Director of Public Relations at Ballistic Architecture Machine. Her role as a PR manager comes with a focus on furthering research on the New Silk Road with the goal of developing it into one of several of BAM’s unique “Urban Initiative” projects.“I have a strong desire to use design for social impact,” says Kseniya, describing what initially motivated her to study urban planning at the Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands. She also helps us understand that proposing concepts is not enough; the key is in convincing stakeholders by understanding the outcomes they desire.Kseniya was thus drawn to the Schwarzman scholarship, not only for the professional opportunities the program would bring but also for the access she would get to sharp minds around the world (including over 100 fellow scholars) to be able to have conversations on global issues with people from a variety of backgrounds.Listen in as Kseniya explains her thought process behind reframing the Belt & Road Initiative as a “sociospatial set of challenges” in her thesis and the three themes that anchor her research.She then describes the mission-vision of BAM, the multidisciplinary design studio based in Beijing and Shanghai, and how the studio’s focus on urban landscape design guides its research on the development of the New Silk Road.Finally, Kseniya discusses the incredible speed and agility of development China is known for, particularly in the world of architecture and city planning, and why this can be both a strength and a weakness for the country’s urban development. Key Quotes:“The Schwarzman program is a one-year Master's program in Global Affairs at Tsinghua University in Beijing. It’s a very young program—six years old. It’s a scholarship that was created specifically to respond to the geopolitical landscape of our current times. That means China’s growing interactions with businesses around the world and also the realization of the founder, Stephen A. Schwarzman, that there is not enough understanding of this region in the West.” “The Belt & Road Initiative is at the scale of an entire continent. My question was: ‘What does it mean to build infrastructure for win-win collaboration—a structure that will create new people-to-people bonds?’” “I truly believe that the success of the Belt & Road Initiative depends on the built environments and the on-the-ground conditions that are created through ‘Happy Cities’.” “Just building a new highway that will bring your country money is not enough to create people-to-people bonds; to foster collaboration; and to create new, vibrant environments.” “One of the main aspects that brings a lot of professionals—from the best architects, urban planners, and the like—to China is the speed of developments. Things get built very quickly and, as such, an architect working in China for five years might see one or two projects completed; whereas back in Europe, they might as well spend ten years behind the drawing board.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      Why is it vital for 21st century businesses to focus on data●      Innovations in the data and AI space in China●      What is “growth hacking” and why is it most applied to early stage startups?●      What distinguishes data collection and analytics in China from those of other countries?●      The typical customer journey in China versus that of the West●      How an expat stays on top of all the tech developments in China●      Creating brand loyalty in China●      How businesses can avoid data overload●      Data collection tools businesses can use and Daphne’s favorite strategies Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Daphne Tuijn, a specialist in China’s eCommerce and technology space.She is the Co-Founder and CEO at Chaoly, a Shanghai-based company that offers a proprietary cloud-based data platform that integrates their clients’ data together with big data sources from major Chinese platforms such as Tmall, Baidu, WeChat, Weibo and Little Red Book. Chaoly’s Insights-as-a-Service then provides actionable insights and intelligence derived from the data.Daphne is also the Co-Founder and CEO at WebshopinChina.com, a full-service eCommerce agency with offices in Shanghai and Amsterdam.With 900 million internet users in the country and 52% of all retail being conducted online, China is truly a pioneer in the eCommerce space, globally. This has naturally led to China becoming known for its enormous data collection capabilities; however, Daphne says that data availability is one thing; being able to use it is another. In fact, in China, “there might be too much data. As they say, ‘Data is the new oil.’ But similar to oil, data needs to be refined in order for it to be used.”Daphne also shares her best practices for creating brand loyalty in China as well as how the role of Key Opinion Leaders (KOLs) differs between the Chinese and Western markets. She also touches on the various ways brands can collect data in China both personally and from third-party sources while avoiding data overload. Key Quotes:“Data is extremely important in two ways: On the one hand, it allows you to make educated decisions instead of basing your decisions on gut feeling. [...] Using data as a preparation point to understanding the market is a good way to assess your success and to see if, indeed, you should put your money on [a decision]. Also, data helps you assess whether your performance is okay.” “In China, the issue is not the availability of data. On the contrary, there might be too much data. As they say, ‘Data is the new oil.’ But similar to oil, data needs to be refined in order for it to be used.” “You can look at the data but, ultimately, data itself is just a snapshot.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      How sports evolved in China over the past 1500 years●      Why team sports have been slower in China●      The role that the Chinese government plays in sports●      What reform in the Chinese sports industry currently looks like●      How the sports entertainment world looks in China with regards to live events●      How foreign organizations can connect with sports fans in China●      What is a “venue” in China?●      What Greg expects for the 2022 Winter Olympics Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Greg Turner, an industry leader in live sports and entertainment events and venue management in China. He is the Founder and Managing Director at High Performance, which manages and promotes events at Shantou University Sports Park. Greg himself led the development of the STU Sports Park; a $110 million project donated by the Li Ka Shing Foundation to Shantou University.Before Greg’s involvement with STU, he served as the General Manager at XingYang Sports Culture Development, having been recruited directly by China’s first-ever Winter Olympic Gold medalist Yang Yang to manage her investment into the development of ice sports in China. During his eight months working on the initiative, Greg led his team in building up various grassroots programs for ice hockey, figure skating and short-track speed skating, establishing Feiyang as Shanghai’s premier public ice-skating facility.Listen in as Greg talks about the factors that shaped the development of the sports industry and culture in China, from their unique government-driven character to the Soviet-era roots that motivate the nation to dominate the global sports world.Greg then talks about the differences between sports cultures in the West and in China, what foreign organizations should focus on when looking to establish themselves in the local sports industry, and the reforms that the industry is currently undergoing.Finally, Greg explains how live events are organized and promoted in China as well as his thoughts on the 2022 Winter Olympics. Key Quotes:“Sports in China operates a lot different than what we’re used to—it’s very government-driven. Government policy lays the framework for how it’s going to be developing. That dates back to 1918 when the first paper that Mao Zedong published was on the lack of personal fitness for Chinese people and how that was impacting their ability to build a strong nation.” “[China aims to have sports consumption] become one of the new pillars of the Chinese economy. They’re shifting away from manufacturing and they’re trying to have more of a balance between service and manufacturing—maybe more on the service side. Sports are seen as part of that basket of industries that are going to develop the national economy and help it keep growing.” “Sports, [for the Chinese] is just one piece of the entertainment diet that they have. If they have to choose between watching their favorite player or favorite team play a game or watching a movie with friends, it’s actually a really difficult decision. If you add in dinner, they’re probably going to choose the dinner first and foremost. So, sports doesn’t have that same drive and passion that it has in the West.” “Doing business in China is kind of like boiling water: There’s nothing going on for a long time then, all of a sudden, everything explodes. [...] I think sports is right on the cusp of boiling point.” “With everything going on in the world in China and in the U.S., one of the things that I take heart in is that sports is a great uniter. We’ve seen that in the past and I hope we can see that again as we go through the next few years.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      Marketing a football league in China●      How other EU teams are finding fans in China●      Do foreign clubs have limited time to grow their followings as the Chinese government looks to expand local football culture?●      How different countries grow their sports and how closely China intends to follow those existing strategies●      The future Yao Ming of football in China●      Where the majority of Borussia Dortmund’s marketing spend is going●      Tactics for growing a sports brand in China●      Why China and Germany have such a strong relationship Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Benjamin Wahl, a brand strategy, business, and sports development expert. He is Head of China for the German professional football club Borussia Dortmund. Prior to this, Benjamin led the China strategy for Bayer 04 Leverkusen from 2016 to 2017, establishing a youth football academy in China in the process.Listen in as Benjamin talks about his five-year experience as a sports solution professional working in the China market. He speaks on how his own Borussia Dortmund was able to gain a foothold in the country and the marketing efforts they have been most focused on in order to spread the club’s culture and fanbase.Benjamin also touches on how other EU-based clubs are doing in China by comparison and what makes Germany stand out with regard to its relationship with China compared to those of other European countries.Finally, Benjamin shares tactics that other organizations and clubs can use to grow a sports brand in China and describes Borussia Dortmund’s branding and marketing strategy that he refers to as “The Challenger Approach”. Key Quotes:“When I go to [local football games] I’m always surprised at what a real fan culture they already have. When I speak to fans, I think it’s common that they have two clubs here: the local club attached to a region or a city [...] and a second team in Europe.” “With a team sport like football, and probably even basketball, it takes time—years—to establish the sport and a big base of players.”

Topics Discussed and Key Points:●      Charles’s history doing business with China and his current role at WPIC●      How Charles defines “creativity”●      Maintaining creativity in-house versus outsourcing creativity to KOLs and KOCs●      How brands should go about looking for KOLs or KOCs in order to maximize ROI●      Teaching creativity●      Differences in creative processes between the West and the East●      How brands can stay creatively consistent in different markets●      How foreign brands can cut through the noise in the Chinese market Episode Summary:Today on The Negotiation, we speak with Charles Lavoie, who leads and manages WPIC Creative Labs.Prior to joining WPIC in April 2021, Charles had served as the Marketing Director at BIOTWIN, the Director of Strategy and Business Development at PBB Creative, and China advisor to both Can Life Sports and CareerUp. He is also the co-founder of Beijing-based Infina Vodka and is responsible for the growth of the company from the ground-up to distribution across 10 different cities in China, Hong Kong, and the Northwest of Africa.Charles’s career so far has seen him developing brands, design thinking strategies, and advertising campaigns for clients such as Acura, Uber, Daimler, Tencent, Tourism Vancouver, World Bank, as well as the Quebec and Canada Governments.According to Charles, the challenge of the creative professional is to bridge the “gap between invention and commercialization”, which requires innovation, and not necessarily about creating something new but looking instead at the existing brand and their existing resources, and from that fashion an idea that benefits the business by being both profitable and relevant.Listen in as Charles compares the strengths of in-house creative control to those of outsourcing creative to KOLs and KOCs. He also gives his thoughts on how to “teach” creativity to your team, navigating differences in creative processes between the West and the East, and delivering creativity through a consistent brand framework in different markets. Key Quotes:“[Creativity] to me is bringing past or existing concepts or inspirations together to create something new.” “The gap between invention and commercialization is innovation. [...] We can be creative as much as we can, but the big challenge is to be creative and relevant.” “China is way stronger in anything that is technical and the West is stronger in everything that is strategic.”