The POWER Podcast

Fusion occurs when two atoms slam together to form a heavier atom, such as when two hydrogen atoms fuse to form one helium atom. A tremendous amount of energy is released in the process. This is the same process that powers the sun. In the sun's core, where temperatures reach 15,000,000C, hydrogen atoms are in a constant state of agitation. As they collide at very high speeds, the natural electrostatic repulsion that exists between the positive charges of their nuclei is overcome and the atoms fuse. Without fusion, there would be no life on Earth. Significant research has been done to better understand the fusion process since the concept was first theorized in the 1920s. Scientists have answered most of the key physics questions behind fusion. Today, in southern France, 35 nations are collaborating to build the world's largest tokamak—a magnetic fusion device designed to prove the feasibility of fusion as a large-scale and carbon-free source of energy. The ITER project, as it is known, is expected to be the first fusion device to produce “net energy,” which is the term used when the total power produced during a fusion plasma pulse surpasses the thermal power injected to heat the plasma. ITER could be the first fusion device to maintain fusion for long periods of time, and it is expected to be the first fusion device to test the integrated technologies, materials, and physics regimes necessary for the commercial production of fusion-based electricity. “I’m optimistic. I think in 10 to 15 years, we could have a commercial fusion energy plant producing electricity on the grid,” Chuck Goodnight, lead partner in the U.S. on U.S. Nuclear Energy as part of Arthur D. Little’s Global Energy & Utilities practice, said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. If Goodnight’s prediction is correct, the entire landscape of power generation could be transformed not only in the U.S., but also around the world. “In the 1950s, we had very few nuclear power plants, and then in the U.S. within 35 years or so we had 100,” Goodnight said. “I can envision that same future for small modular reactors and fusion—and that could be global in my vision. And at that point, hopefully, there’s renewables, there’s fission, there’s fusion, and there ultimately would be no carbon-based fuel systems running. And people could look around the planet and look back with gratitude to the people of today that have spent time and money and energy and sweat to make these technologies viable and to get them to market and to get them into a grid that is sustainable,” he said. “So, I'm optimistic because we’ve got a lot of smart people and quite a bit of funding now behind these ideas to get these things going, and the government’s behind them and the private equity behind them and private funding and innovative people that are clearly a big part of this. I think there’s a lot of reasons to be optimistic about our future,” said Goodnight.

Nuclear power opponents often point to radioactive waste as one of their main concerns. However, most people don’t realize that problems associated with long-lived waste can actually be solved in an economic way with technology that’s already well-proven. Long-lived actinides can be “burned” in a thorium molten salt reactor (MSR), or a breeder reactor. They do not burn fast, but in this way, it is possible to convert the most problematic part of the waste from something that needs to be stored safely for tens of thousands of years to fission products that only need to be stored safely for about 300 years. “Breeding is where you actually convert what’s called a fertile fuel—and thorium is one of these fertile fuels—you convert that into something which you can fission, and then you have to make sure that that process actually doesn't stop—that it continues to create more and more new fuel,” Thomas Jam Pedersen, co-founder of Copenhagen Atomics, said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. “That’s what Copenhagen Atomics is trying to prove to the world—that it’s not merely something that you can show from physics that it’s possible, but you could actually also build it and make it work.” The concept is not new. MSRs—a class of reactors that use liquid salt, usually fluoride- or chloride-based, as either a coolant with a solid fuel or as a combined coolant and fuel with the fuel dissolved in a carrier salt—underwent significant testing in the 1950s and 1960s at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) in Tennessee. Subsequent design studies in the 1970s focusing on thermal-spectrum thorium-fueled systems established reference concepts for two major design variants, one of which was a molten salt breeder reactor with multiple configurations that could breed additional fissile material or maintain self-sustaining operation. One reason the testing stopped was because thorium is not well-suited for making nuclear weapons, so the military was not interested in investing in the technology. “It was, from the very get-go, far behind the investments in the uranium fuel cycle, and therefore, most people were educated in the uranium fuel cycle,” Pedersen said. In the late 2000s, that changed, because documents from the ORNL testing were released to the public. “People started to discover, ‘Oh, there’s actually something here that is quite exciting.’ Because thorium is the only element where you can make breeder cycle, or breeder reactor, in thermal spectrum, and thermal spectrum is sort of, you can say, the easy reactors to build,” Pedersen explained. Copenhagen Atomics’ goal is to have a 100-MWth (roughly 45-MWe) reactor unit available commercially by 2028. Units are expected to be built in a factory, using an assembly-line process, and will be roughly the size of a standard shipping container, which will allow them to be delivered easily to plant construction sites around the world. Customers would be able to install multiple units at a site to effectively create almost any size plant. The company expects to have a non-fission prototype unit ready for operation next year. “We will be able to test it—it’s a one-to-one scale model of the reactor—we will not be able to run fission inside, but we can start it up and we can pump the salt around and we can test all the systems—see that it’s working,” Pedersen said. Copenhagen Atomics is targeting 2025 to have a fully functioning demonstration reactor in operation. The cost? “I think it’ll be a much cheaper energy form than classical nuclear reactors, and I think we can even compete with some of the cheapest forms of wind power or solar power,” said Pedersen. Furthermore, the thorium-fueled units will be dispatchable. “We can supply energy 24/7, and therefore, the value of our energy source is higher in the grid than it would be if you buy the same electricity from solar.”

Experts claim power grid infrastructure needs to be upgraded to accommodate the vast amount of renewable energy expected to be added to the system in coming decades. That could require billions of dollars in investments, millions of hours of planning and permitting work, and years of construction in the field. Another option that could help is to optimize existing grid components. While increasing the capacity of present power lines may not preclude the need for upgrades down the road, it could reduce the urgency and eliminate some of the congestion on the system in the near term. One way to maximize line capacity is through closer monitoring of conductors. “LineVision is a grid technology company that is working with leading utilities around the world to solve some of the most critical challenges they’re facing,” Hudson Gilmer, CEO of LineVision, said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. “What we have developed is a platform that uses advanced sensors and analytics to increase the capacity, the resilience, and safety of our electric grid.” “What may be surprising to many of your listeners is that these high-voltage lines—these transmission lines and even distribution lines—that really form the backbone of our electric grid are not monitored today. Utilities have invested a lot in technologies that monitor equipment within their substations, but one of the last frontiers where they don’t monitor the condition of their grid is the overhead lines,” Gilmer said. It may not be obvious to the casual observer, but power lines do move quite a bit. The difference in the sag of a typical transmission line can be several meters. “A hot conductor will sag more than a cool conductor will,” Gilmer explained. “What we’re doing with these sensors is taking advantage of the fact that even a modest amount of wind cooling the line allows utilities to safely put much more power through them than they would if they weren’t monitored and they had to make essentially worst-case, very-conservative assumptions about the conductor’s temperature,” said Gilmer. “So, this allows us to unlock up to 40% additional capacity on existing lines, and that really addresses one of the most important obstacles to a clean energy transition, and that is, increasing capacity on the grid.” LineVision has collaborated on projects with several utilities, as well as with the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) and the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). “We did one recently that was DOE-funded together with Xcel Energy out in Colorado. And we’re really fortunate to have a number of great utility clients and utilities that are really recognized as leaders in the industry. That includes National Grid, includes Dominion, includes Xcel, that includes Duquesne energy in the Pittsburgh area, Sacramento Municipal Utility District,” noted Gilmer. He said LineVision is also working with several other clients that he’s not at liberty to mention at the present time. The technology is not only in demand in the U.S., but also around the world. On Oct. 6, the company announced that Marubeni Corp. would integrate LineVision’s power line monitoring solutions onto the Japanese electric grid. Today, the company announced that a large power utility in Northern Ireland will install its sensors to monitor 33-kV overhead lines in that region. Gilmer said LineVision has also done work in New Zealand, Austria, Slovenia, Greece, Hungary, and Germany, among others. “The reality is that this is a need worldwide as utilities try to connect more renewables to their grid,” said Gilmer. “Traditionally, the only way to expand grid capacity was by very capital-intensive, costly projects—that take five to 10-plus years—to build new lines or upgrade existing lines, and what we represent here is really a new model for how to expand grid capacity by deploying advanced sensors and analytics to get more out of the existing wires,” he explained.

Insiders have long been talking about the energy transition taking place within the power industry. Most of the chatter has revolved around renewable energy, specifically wind and solar power, and the shift from coal- to gas-fired generation in the U.S. However, one expert from the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) told POWER that carbon capture and hydrogen are the “most exciting” technologies he sees impacting the energy sector between now and 2050. “The potential of carbon capture in this transition is going to be phenomenal. We have to figure this out. We have to deploy it,” Neil Wilmshurst, senior vice president of Energy System Resources with EPRI, said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. Wilmshurst suggested regulators are the biggest hurdle standing in the way of carbon capture projects, and that it will likely take the work of an organization such as EPRI to overcome the obstacles. He said a group like his “going to the regulators and saying, ‘What are you worried about? What would stop you permitting carbon storage in your area?’ and doing the research to help enable those regulators to make an informed decision” could be a difference-maker in getting projects off the ground. However, the costs associated with adding carbon capture to existing fossil-fueled power plants adds another layer of complexity. When asked about that aspect, Wilmshurst responded, “If you have coal assets or gas assets, they still produce CO2 despite all the improvements being made to them. If we’re going to have those assets actually returning their return on investment out beyond 2030, we need to address carbon capture. So, from my mind, one of the arguments for carbon capture is: we’ve already got some costs and infrastructure—the added cost of carbon capture—weigh those against the cost of shutting an asset down before its end of life. And that is maybe a discussion that isn’t actually thought about sometimes, that it’s not just the cost of the capture, it’s the stranded asset costs if we walk away from some of these gas plants.” Furthermore, Wilmshurst suggested it would be very difficult to meet carbon reduction targets without utilizing carbon capture technology. “When you look at the infrastructure we have today and the options we have to get to 2050, it is a real challenge to see how the U.S. gets to 2050 [goals] without leaning in hard on carbon capture.” Wilmshurst also expressed excitement around the prospects for hydrogen. “As you look at 2050, we cannot get to that zero-carbon target just by removing CO2 from the electric industry, we’ve got to actually remove CO2 from industrial processes, from domestic processes, and hydrogen and other alternative fuels like ammonia—they have a tremendous appeal in that discussion,” he said. EPRI has a Low-Carbon Resources Initiative designed to accelerate development and demonstration of low- and zero-carbon energy technologies. One thing to watch coming out of that initiative is what energy carriers, or energy vectors, are going to become most prominent by 2050. “It’s not going to be the same as it is now,” he said. “What are ships going to be powered by? What are aircraft going to be powered by? What are industrial complexes going to be powered by?” Wilmshurst asked. “We’re seeing people talking about building new nuclear power stations. Traditionally, you talk about new nuclear power stations, they're going to be connected to the grid, they’re going to generate 100% power 24 hours a day, and that’s their role. Now, we’re hearing people talk about producing hydrogen from a nuclear power plant and actually supplying that to industrial hubs. So, this whole change in the role of the energy sector in the next 20, 30 years is probably the most exciting thing out there.”

Is America Ready to Take a ‘Baby Step’ Toward Carbon Pricing? Most people recognize that carbon dioxide (CO2) is a greenhouse gas (GHG), and while not everyone agrees, a majority of climate scientists believe increasing GHG concentrations in the Earth’s atmosphere are causing climate change. Carbon pricing is a market-based strategy for reducing CO2 emissions. The goal of carbon pricing schemes is to place a value on carbon emissions so that the costs can be passed on to GHG emitters, thereby creating financial incentives to reduce emissions. However, enacting a carbon pricing strategy in the U.S. has been difficult. Some observers blame the fossil fuel industry, such as coal mining and oil drilling companies, for lobbying in Washington to halt carbon pricing efforts. Yet, even some fossil-focused groups are getting behind the idea. In March this year, the American Petroleum Institute (API), an advocacy group representing all segments of America’s natural gas and oil industry, endorsed “a Carbon Price Policy to drive economy-wide, market-based solutions.” Another strong proponent of carbon pricing is Neil Chatterjee, a former commissioner and chairman with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), who recently joined Hogan Lovells as a senior advisor in the firm’s Energy Regulatory practice group. As a guest on The POWER Podcast, Chatterjee said, “As someone who had a front row seat to the challenges within competitive power markets in the U.S., I have really come to the conclusion that pricing the externality—putting a price on carbon—is a vastly superior approach to carbon mitigation than subsidies or mandates or over-reaching burdensome regulations. I just think that given those choices—I saw it firsthand—a carbon price is a far more effective and efficient market-based approach to carbon mitigation.” Chatterjee spearheaded an effort to provide clarity for regional transmission organizations (RTOs) and independent system operators (ISOs), which resulted in a FERC policy statement on carbon pricing. Chatterjee said a FERC policy statement is not like a rulemaking, but rather, it provides a roadmap to stakeholders for how to engage with the commission. “I wanted to make clear that: A) the commission didn’t have the ability to unilaterally impose, collect, and administer a price on carbon but, B) that should a state implement a price on carbon that got incorporated into an RTO or ISO tariff, that there was a roadmap whereby the commission could make a determination of whether such a tariff change was just and reasonable,” he explained. “And the reason I think it’s important is I do think you have a couple of RTOs and ISOs who are looking at the possibility of incorporating a carbon price. And some people will say, ‘Well, that’s just a baby step.’ Well, I say, let’s take the baby step. “We’ve had economists across the political spectrum say that this is an effective market-based way to decarbonize,” Chatterjee said. “Let’s take a baby step. Let’s see if an RTO or an ISO can implement a price on carbon, if this iteration of FERC can make the determination that such a price on carbon is just unreasonable, and then let’s see if it works. And perhaps, if we have that successful model within the U.S. power market, and we take that baby step successfully, then maybe other grid operators will take note of that, and you could see further utilization of this market-based tool.”

3D printing is a process used to create an object by sequentially adding build material in successive cross-sections, one stacked upon another. It is a form of additive manufacturing. Once considered more of a novelty, 3D printing has evolved into an incredibly valuable production method used to create very intricate designs, including gas turbine components such as combustors. “We see a lot of activity and creative designs in the combustion section of gas turbines,” Scott Green, principal solutions leader with 3D Systems Inc., said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. “If you look in the combustion can, there’s a lot of really interesting designs for fuel injectors or mixers,” Green said. “It lends itself well to additive manufacturing because everything inside the combustion can is going to fit inside most mid-frame 3D direct-metal printers. They’re not massive components. They’re relatively shoebox-size things that are a part of a bigger system. Now, those are relatively easy for engineers to graph. They can dump a ton of time into making the highest possible efficiency fuel injector, you know, with capillaries, and efficient swirling and mixing structures that are internal, really eliminating tons of braising operations. So, we see a lot of great designs in the combustion can—in the combustion components.” In addition to combustor parts, 3D printing is also used to manufacture stator vanes, impellers, and casings and ducting components for power industry applications. One of the reasons for this is that consolidating multiple-part assemblies into a single part increases manufacturing yield and component reliability, while the integration of highly efficient cooling channels improves thermal performance. Furthermore, new levels of machinery performance can be unlocked using additive manufacturing by improving design features and leveraging extreme temperature-resistant materials. All of this can be accomplished while reducing manufacturing costs and eliminating the need for expensive, long-lead-time tooling and five-axis machining. Many other industries have found 3D printing solutions to be of value too. 3D Systems works extensively with the automotive, aerospace, defense, semiconductor, and healthcare sectors, among others. Figuring out whether 3D printing is right for a specific application comes down to a six-step process, according to Green. He said not every customer will go through all of the stages, but the progression has led to success for many companies. “What we want to do is engage with the customer on their application. We want to learn more about what you do, why you’re interested in 3D printing, and get down to what’s the subject part,” he said. If a customer has a specific problem to solve and a goal in mind, such as improving efficiency by 10% or increasing speed by 10%, the team will work to achieve that outcome. They will consider which parts are suitable for additive manufacturing and which aren’t. “For the ones that are a good fit, let’s help you develop how to make them. So, we’ll recommend which machine will even do the build setup process, the material selection—alloy selection with you—testing and validation, and proving that the process actually works. And then, at that point in time, we can take over to do bridge production, which means we work with you to find the right cost, and the right volume and schedule to make the parts for you,” Green explained. “What we want to do is help deliver a plan to make the thing that solves the problem you have to whoever’s going to utilize the equipment.”

If you’ve flown on a commercial airplane, you’ve likely sat within a hundred feet of an operating gas turbine engine. Gas turbines have been used to power aircraft since the 1940s. But gas turbines like those on airplanes are also used for generating electricity. These designs are known as aero-derivative gas turbines and occupy a special place in the power market. Aero-derivative gas turbines are popular because of their reliability, efficiency, and flexibility. They are significantly lighter, respond faster, and have a smaller footprint than their heavy-duty counterparts, which makes them much easier to utilize for temporary purposes and in applications that require mobility. “If you look at the high-level goal for the industry in terms of decarbonization, grid resilience, resource adequacy, and affordability, the aero-derivatives fit perfectly in all those categories,” Harsh Shah, vice president of sales and business development with Mitsubishi Power Aero, said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. “We provide solutions that generate power from 30 MW to 140 MW, and we see a very strong demand for these products across the globe—everywhere—in developed nations, developing nations, whether it’s industrial, utilities, independent power producers, and even captive power producers.” Shah said the main reason for the demand is that when customers require fast-track power solutions, and can’t wait years between signing a contract and having the power come online, aero-derivatives are often the best option. “When time is an important factor, the aero-derivative solution is very important,” he said. Shah offered a recent example to demonstrate how quickly aero-derivative gas turbines can be deployed. Mitsubishi Power Aero (previously PW Power Systems, the company underwent a rebranding on April 1) worked with Mexico’s state-owned power utility, Comisión Federal de Electricidad (CFE), to add 150 MW of generation to help meet summer demand in the Mexicali, Baja California region. Negotiations began in January this year, and the capacity was available to the grid less than four months after the contract was signed. “We supplied five MOBILEPAC units. These are trailer-mounted, very-mobile, very-compact units—don’t require any site preparation, in terms of, you don’t need a concrete foundation, minimal work required at the site,” said Shah. “From the time we signed the contract, within 110 days we had power up and running.” Time plays into another benefit of aero-derivative gas turbines in that they can go from completely cold to full power very quickly. “Our aero-derivatives offer a very unique value proposition to our customers, whereby, we would be fully up and running in less than 10 minutes, and we’re pushing that envelope to lower and lower times—five minutes and such,” Shah said. Flexibility is also an important feature. “This is flexibility from different perspectives. You could have flexibility in terms of the ramp rates—how quickly you can go up and down. And this is especially important as across the globe you have more and more renewables on the grid. You need solutions that can cover when the sun is covered or the wind power drops off. So, the ramp up, ramp down, and fast responsiveness gives the very-much-required flexibility,” Shah said. “In addition to that, we get flexibility because of multifuel capability—whether you are using gas or liquid fuel. You also have flexibility for dual frequency in 50 or 60 Hz. And then the last aspect of flexibility that I will touch is very high power density. … Optimal use of land is very important, and the high power density of our solutions is creating a lot of demand.”

It’s not unusual for species to go extinct; it happens all the time. In fact, scientists estimate that at least 99.9% of all species of plants and animals that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct. That’s pretty amazing, considering how many species still exist—up to 8.7 million, according to some experts. Mass extinction events, however, are not so common. A mass extinction event is when more than half of all species living at a given time go extinct over a relatively short period. The American Museum of Natural History found five significant mass extinction events in the Earth’s history that it thought were worth highlighting on the museum’s website. The largest of these happened about 250 million years ago, when up to 95% of existing species died out. Another that people may find particularly noteworthy occurred 65 million years ago. That one took out the dinosaurs, marking a major turning point in history. What hasn’t happened in the past is a mass extinction event caused by humans. However, Richard Heinberg, author of the soon-to-be-released book titled Power: Limits and Prospects for Human Survival, thinks that may be coming, and some of the reasons are detailed in his 416-page book. “The book is a ‘big picture’ book, and I address three huge questions in it. One is: How did we—just one species—come to overpower the rest of nature to the point where we’re changing the climate and triggering what looks like it may be a mass extinction event? The second question is: How have we come to oppress one another in so many and so brutal ways? And the third is: Is there any way we can come to terms with power in such a way as to turn things around?” Heinberg said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. Heinberg said people around the world must switch from fossil fuels to alternative energy sources to limit climate change, but he was pessimistic about the prospects for doing so quickly enough to make a difference in the long term. “It’s going to be very, very difficult to do that in fact, and for a number of reasons,” said Heinberg. “One, of course, is just the fact that solar and wind, which are our main candidates for replacing fossil fuels, they produce electricity, but electricity is only about 20% of global energy usage. So, the other 80%, we use solid, liquid, and gaseous fuels for agriculture and transportation, and industrial processes like smelting metals, and making cement for concrete, and on, and on, and on—a lot of high-heat industrial processes. Those things are going to be hard to electrify.” The only way to “get to the other side,” according to Heinberg, is for people in industrial countries such as the U.S. to reduce their overall energy usage pretty substantially. “That sounds really daunting, but it certainly is possible to do,” he said. “Europeans use half the energy that Americans do, and yet their quality of life is quite acceptable by anybody’s standards. So, we’re going to have to find ways of providing basic human needs in ways that use the least amount of energy, and then supply renewable energy for those purposes.” “I speak frequently to experts, not just in climate science, but in other environmental fields and social fields and so on. And everyone that I talk to is really, really concerned about where all of this is headed. So, if you’re worried, you’re not alone, the experts are worried too. But, we really have to start talking honestly with each other about all of this and getting our heads out of the sand because it’s just too easy to live in denial,” Heinberg said. “We’re going to have to step up to the plate and really show that we’re a species that deserves to survive.”

Decarbonizing the Power Grid with Hydrogen and Advanced Technology Many leaders around the world are focused on decarbonizing their countries’ energy supplies. For most, that means adding renewable energy resources to their electricity mix, and developing a path aimed at retiring coal and other fossil-fueled power plants. Yet, these are not the only decarbonization options. Research and development (R&D) efforts are also ongoing to expand the use of hydrogen and energy storage, and advance new technologies, such as carbon capture and artificial intelligence, in an effort to reduce carbon emissions. “I think there is a clear sign right now that the world has made the choice, and the choice is clearly the zero-CO2 emission,” Karim Amin, executive vice president of Generation with Siemens Energy, said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. “So, that's a given, and we are all working towards achieving this target.” Siemens Energy sees hydrogen as an important piece of the decarbonization puzzle. The company is working to bring the cost of hydrogen down through advances in its electrolyzer technology. Siemens Energy also has a very clear roadmap to make its advanced heavy-duty gas turbines capable of operating on 100% hydrogen before 2030. “Two years ago, we were barely at 30% of hydrogen co-firing. Today, our HL gas turbine is up to 50%, and some of our decentral gas turbines [are] up to 75%,” Amin said. “We are confident to be able to develop the technology, which is mainly around the combustion system in the gas turbine, to be able to handle 100% of hydrogen.” Most of the hydrogen produced around the world today comes from natural gas, which is often called “gray” hydrogen. In order to decarbonize the energy supply, it’s important for “green” hydrogen, which is produced from renewable energy resources, to replace the gray hydrogen. However, gray hydrogen is currently much cheaper than green hydrogen. “The cost right now to produce green hydrogen is rather expensive,” Amin said. “The technology is still not there to bring the cost of the hydrogen to affordable levels, and that’s what we are working on, and other players also in the industry [are] working on, to bring the cost of hydrogen down to levels that can be also sustainable in the future.” Amin made it clear, however, that hydrogen isn’t the only piece of the decarbonization puzzle. “Hydrogen is only one part. There are technologies around carbon capture—technologies, which we are also working on. There are technologies around storage, as I said. There are technologies around upgrading existing fleets. There is even a big part to be played by artificial intelligence, algorithms, and digitalization,” he said. “There [are] new horizons for the industry to explore and to take us to the next level, and that’s what we are investing in and working upon, besides all the other things that we talked about,” Amin concluded.

Leveling the Market Playing Field for Hybrid Power Plants The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) is an independent agency that, among other things, regulates the interstate transmission of electricity. Its ultimate mission is to “Assist consumers in obtaining economically efficient, safe, reliable, and secure energy services at a reasonable cost through appropriate regulatory and market means, and collaborative efforts.” In the past, FERC has issued important orders, including 841 and 2222, which have helped clear the way for more energy storage to be added to the U.S. power grid. However, Chip Cannon, a partner with Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP, who heads the firm’s energy regulation, markets, and enforcements practice, believes the playing field requires further leveling for hybrid plants, that is, facilities pairing solar or wind farms with battery storage. Cannon said few hybrid plants existed on the grid a few years ago, but that is changing quickly. In fact, he said there are 102 GW of solar plus storage and 11 GW of wind plus storage capacity in the interconnection queue at the present time. “We have battery storage resources, typically paired with renewables, that are entering the interconnection queue at a very, very fast clip,” Cannon said as a guest on The POWER Podcast. That has created some challenges for the market. “The queue process has not really been set up for accommodating these hybrid resources, and we really don’t have very much experience for them in the market,” said Cannon. Hybrid plants offer a number of physical and operational traits that benefit the power grid. Solar and wind resources are obviously intermittent, meaning they only produce power when the sun shines and the wind blows. When paired with energy storage, which can be used to either add or remove energy to and from the grid, intermittency problems can be alleviated. The pairing also improves reliability, flexibility, and resiliency, and can help lower costs for consumers. Cannon explained that all of the regional transmission organizations (RTOs) and independent system operators (ISOs), such as PJM, CAISO, and NYISO, establish the “rules of the road” for generators to participate in their energy capacity and ancillary services markets. “But those market rules were not designed to reflect resources that can both take in energy as well as put energy on the grid. So, the concern here right now is that the market designs were simply not set up to accommodate energy storage resources,” Cannon said. While FERC doesn’t have the authority to establish rules that promote energy storage, it can look at the existing market rules to see if they are unduly hindering the ability of certain classes of resources to participate and compete in those markets. Cannon said FERC has held a technical conference regarding hybrid resources, which allowed various stakeholders to provide input. It also directed RTOs and ISOs earlier this year to submit information on how their markets are setup to accommodate hybrid resources. Cannon suggested it will be interesting to see how FERC ultimately addresses the issue. “We’re definitely at an inflection point in the power sector. I think the power sector has been going through an evolution for a couple of decades since FERC started going down the path of competition, and now we’ve got this radically new resource mix,” Cannon said. “I’m of the view, though, that the evolution is really turning into a revolution of the power sector with the speed of technological changes and falling prices. So, there’s a lot of really good stuff out there.”