What Rough Beast

This week, we talk to the great Sarah Stillman, Pulitzer Prize-winning staff writer at The New Yorker and MacArthur Fellow who teaches investigative reporting at Yale. Her work focuses on profiteering in the criminal justice system—from debtors' prisons and civil asset forfeiture to for-profit prison communications and companies exploiting disaster-recovery workers during climate crises. She previously ran Columbia's Global Migration Project, investigating immigration detention and asylum-seekers' rights. In this episode, we discuss:* That the numbers are staggering—180,000 people deported so far this term, with $170 billion set aside for enforcement* How family separations aren't just cruel policy—they're a deliberate tool that strips people of their humanity by cutting them off from anyone who sees them as infinitely valuable* The weird and disturbing practice of sending deportees to random countries they've never been to (like Mexican nationals being held in South Sudan)* Why enforcement is hitting people who used to be left alone—students, green card holders, even kids who are U.S. citizens* How private detention has created a system that's actually bigger than our entire federal prison system* What happens when climate change forces mass migration, and whether our current asylum laws account for it* The workers rebuilding after climate disasters—many of them climate refugees themselves—who face deportation while fixing the homes of people who vote for anti-immigration policies* Why Sarah thinks actual reporting on human stories matters way more than all the political punditry filling up our feeds* The right to hug your parent when they're in jail (yes, that's a real legal fight happening right now)This episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.Magic + Loss is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe

This week we sit down with Alastair Smith, author of The Dictator's Handbook, who thinks we might all need to take a deep breath about American democracy. We discuss:* How it's actually better to lose in a real democracy than win under a wannabe dictator (and the math that proves it)* Why keeping 22 million voters happy is fundamentally different from bribing 100 cronies, and what that means for whether you get roads or just graft* How Trump might be accidentally sabotaging himself with tariffs and Fed-bashing (markets hate uncertainty, who knew?)* The bizarre difference between old-school Pravda propaganda and our current hellscape of lizard-people theories and testicle tanning* Real-time institutional resistance: from the FBI actually protecting threatened journalists to Jerome Powell's magnificent "I'm not stepping down" moment* Why this political scientist—who studies how dictatorships actually work—still thinks our messy, frustrating democracy has more fight left than we realizeFair warning: this conversation might leave you feeling weirdly hopeful about America. We know, we're surprised too.This episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.Magic + Loss is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe

This week on What Rough Beast, Stephen and Virginia go deep on the Epstein conspiracy. Here's what we covered:* How Epstein represented a new class of ultra-wealthy who exempt themselves from democratic norms and why this scandal has traction when Trump seemed "Teflon"* Virginia's first-hand experience with John Brockman's Epstein-funded EDGE organization and the "intellectual dark web"* The physics envy pipeline from quantum mechanics to finance via IQ fetishism* How neo-Darwinism provided intellectual cover for predatory behavior* Why Trump supporters care more about "cover-ups" than actual crimes and whether cognitive fatigue could provide an off-ramp from Trump loyaltyThis episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.What Rough Beast is a reader- and listener-supported publication. To receive new posts and support this work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of What Rough Beast, we talk to David Rees, host of Election Profit Makers and creator of the legendary post-9/11 comic strip "Get Your War On," which skewered the Bush administration's War on Terror through the voices of office workers having profane conversations about cluster bombs and nation-building. We discuss:* Iraq vs. Iran rhetoric: How the arguments for bombing Iran compare to the "extremely stupid" discourse that justified the 2003 Iraq invasion, and why Trump's impulsive approach differs from Bush's ideological war machine* The evolution of American freakiness: How the cultural currency of being anti-establishment has flipped from the counterculture left to Trump's depraved right, making figures like Stephen Miller the new Rumsfeld* Clip art as social commentary: Why Rees chose anonymous office workers to represent Americans during the War on Terror* Protesting in the Trump era: Why young people aren't motivated by "orange man bad" protests but are energized by direct action against ICE, and what this means for anti-establishment politics* The Zohran Mamdani moment: How NYC's presumptive next mayor represents a new generation of unapologetically progressive politicians who terrify billionaires—and why that's exactly the pointThis episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.What Rough Beast is a reader- and listener-supported publication. To receive new posts and support this work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe

Join Jon Ronson, acclaimed narrative storyteller and author, as he examines the unraveling of America through the lens of conspiracy theories and culture wars. He reveals how the murder of George Floyd ignited a wave of cultural conflicts within just 20 days. Ronson traces the origins of the discredited 'excited delirium' diagnosis and discusses how pandemics can trigger societal madness. He predicts a shift from cultural to class warfare, highlighting the future battleground—'the war on institutions.' Turn up the volume for insights that resonate deeply!

This is What Rough Beast! We’re talking with Ben Wizner, the director of the ACLU’s Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project, which works to protect and expand the First Amendment freedoms of expression, association, and inquiry, and ensure that civil liberties are enhanced rather than compromised by new advances in science and technology. In this episode, we discuss:* The strategic theater behind ICE arrests - How dramatic detentions of elected officials like NYC mayoral candidate Brad Lander are designed as performances for an audience of one: Donald Trump* Why litigation is winning but can't solve Trumpism - Wizner explains how civil rights lawyers have filed 53 lawsuits in 100 days, winning many, but why legal victories alone won't address the deeper political crisis* The cases of detained activists - Updates on Rumeysa Ozturk (released from detention) and Mahmoud Khalil (still detained in Louisiana), and what their cases reveal about the administration's tactics* Terror tactics vs. autocratic control - Why the current approach resembles a protection racket more than systematic authoritarianism, using fear and spectacle rather than total surveillance* The limits and power of resistance - How 5 million people in the streets for the "No Kings" protest shows Americans aren't too afraid to mobilize, and why our response determines what kind of crisis we're actually in* The multipolar world after Trump - How three consecutive elections featuring Trump have permanently changed America's global standing, regardless of future election outcomesUnlock more content and support the project of What Rough Beast by becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe

Last week, I spoke with human rights researcher and advocate Yaqiu Wang, whose recent NYT piece draws on the lessons of her childhood in authoritarian China. We talked about her detention in China when she was a student posting on an anonymous Twitter account, the capitulation of the elites, and how to resist obeying the regime. Watch our convo here, and or listen on Substack and anywhere you get your podcasts.Unlock more content and support the project of What Rough Beast by becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe

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This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.comYou're listening to What Rough Beast!Today we're talking with Benjamin Teitelbaum, author of "War for Eternity: The Return of Traditionalism and the Rise of the Populist Right," who studies traditionalist movements and far-right ideology. We explore why these ideas have such allure in America today, using JD Vance as our lens to examine his conversion t…

You’re listening to What Rough Beast!Today we’re talking with Rich Logis, a former Trump and MAGA supporter and pundit, who is now the founder of Leaving MAGA, an organization helping others break free from the movement. In this episode, we talk about:* Rich Logis's personal journey from dedicated MAGA supporter to founding Leaving MAGA* How information bubbles and community identity can lead people to reject contradictory evidence and view those outside their group as existential threats* The psychological process of doubting, leaving, and publicly renouncing a political movement that had become central to one's identity* How people seeking to help loved ones still in MAGA can approach conversations with empathy and understanding* The importance of creating new communities for those experiencing doubt, as Leaving MAGA offers an "exit ramp" for people questioning their supportThis episode is free to all listeners, but please consider becoming a paid Magic + Loss subscriber. Every dollar goes to the continued fight against fascism.What Rough Beast is a reader- and listener-supported publication. To receive new posts and support this work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit virginiaheffernan.substack.com/subscribe