The Human Risk Podcast

Why might judges in the same Court give vastly different sentences for the same crime? The answer is noise. When experts who assess the same situation come to very different conclusions for no good reason, we risk bad outcomes.On this episode, I’m speaking with Professor Olivier Sibony, who is the co-author — along with Professors Daniel Kahneman and Cass Sunstein — of Noise: a flaw in human judgement.In our discussion, he explains what noise is, why it matters and what we can do to mitigate it.He also shares how this stellar line-up of authors came together.Olivier also helps me understand why a commonly adopted approach of using forced distribution for employee performance evaluations, which I have always found to be a bad idea, is…a really bad idea!Olivier has been on the show before. You’ll find that episode here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/professor-olivier-sibony-on-mistakes/ To find out more about Olivier, his research and his previous book ‘You’re About To Make A Terrible Mistake’ visit his website: https://oliviersibony.com/about/For more on Noise, the book see: https://oliviersibony.com/books/noise/To read a 2016 article on Noise by Daniel Kahneman: https://hbr.org/2016/10/noise

How can we manage risk in an increasingly complex world?My guest on this episode, Richard Fenning, has spent three decades advising multinational companies on geopolitics and security crises. He’s been involved in helping to manage situations involving kidnappings, terrorist attacks, coups d’etat, corruption scandals, cyber-attacks, earthquakes and hurricanes in places ranging from Iraq and Russia to Colombia and Nigeria. Richard is the former CEO of Control Risks (https://www.controlrisks.com/) a global consultancy that specialises in “helping businesses out of tight spots in difficult countries”. And of course when companies get into tight spots - and indeed when countries are ‘difficult’ - that’s usually because there are humans creating the tight spots or making the countries difficult. A perfect example of human risk in action.Richard has just written a book called “What On Earth Can Go Wrong - tales from the risk business” in which he shares stories from his time in the field. You can find out more about that here: https://www.eye-books.com/books/what-on-earth-can-go-wrongIn our discussion, we explore how Richard came to work in this field - after all, it’s not something most of us would grow up thinking of as a career and what his experience has taught him about managing risk. Professionally and personally.To learn more about Richard’s work visit: https://www.msp.co.uk/people/richard-fenning

How can we make better connections when we're on virtual calls and webinars? My guest on this episode, Dr Nick Morgan is a speaking coach and writer who helps people to find their voice in a physical and virtual world. For personal reasons, that he explains on the episode, Nick is on a mission to help people have better interactions with others. To find out more about his business visit https://publicwords.com/Nick's book "Can You Hear Me? How to connect with people in a virtual world" was described by Harvard Business Review (who area the publisher!) as “your essential communications manual for twenty first century work”. I have to agree. You can find out more about it here: https://publicwords.com/can-you-hear-me/Having been forced to pivot my Human Risk business (www.human-risk.com) from being mostly 'face to face' with some virtual work, into an entirely virtual business, I was looking for ways that I could learn to get better at my online interactions. Nick's book — which was published in 2018 — provided many answers and helped me to adapt. In our discussion, we explore Nick's story and what he's discovered in looking at how we interact. In case you’re wondering what the human risk angle is here, let me explain. Since we’re required - and even when we’re not required, will probably want - to do more virtual communication than ever before, it’s important we become good at the skills we need in order to do so. As you’ll hear from Nick, those aren’t the same skills we need to communicate in person. If we don’t master these skills, then we risk being misunderstood and we risk misunderstanding others. As we know, misunderstandings can lead to conflict, confusion and even chaos. So, if we want to avoid being part of human risk in action - or indeed if we’re tasked with managing it and want to help others avoid it - understanding how we can better communicate in a virtual world is a must-have, not a nice to have. It's a subject I've covered before on the show and if you're interested in this area, I recommend the following episodes:Hannah Thomas Uose on Zoom Trauma —https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/hanna-thomas-uose-on-zoom-trauma/Professor Elizabeth Stokoe on Conversations — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-elizabeth-stokoe-on-the-science-of-conversations/Jon Levy on Influence — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/jon-levy-on-influence/

If we want to mitigate human risk, we need to engage the humans that might crystallise it. But how can we do that effectively?My guests, Lasse Frost and Jacob Danelund have been working on this challenge for some time. Their focus is on engaging target audiences, using techniques that range from gamification — turning something into a game — to story-telling, the natural way we all learn as children. Lasse and Jacob both work for Implement Consulting, a firm based in Denmark, that as you’ll hear, brings a very Danish way of looking at this challenge. I came across Implement when they were launching Complayance - a combination of the ‘Compliance and ‘play’ - a digital platform that delivers Compliance training through a compelling gaming interface.Lasse and Jakob aren’t just designers, they’re also podcasters hosting a show called The Human Firewall. In the episode, we explore why traditional approaches to the challenge of engaging people, sometimes don’t work and what more effective ones might be.Topics we discuss, include:Shadow IT 👉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_ITThe story of Cassandra from Greek mythology 👉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CassandraThe Human Firewall podcast 👉 https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/the-human-firewall/id1553442754Researcher Luca Dellanna 👉 https://www.luca-dellanna.com/Luca has appeared twice on the Human Risk podcast. You can hear him talking about Ergodicity on this episode 👉https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/luca-dellanna-on-ergodicity/ and COVID & Multiplicative Dynamics on this episode 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/luca-dellanna-on-the-coronavirus-and-multiplicative-dynamics/ComPlayance, the gamified compliance training platform that Implement Consulting, Jakob and Lasse's company Implement consulting has developed 👉https://implementconsultinggroup.com/complayance/For more on Implement, visit 👉https://implementconsultinggroup.comThe origins of the phrase 'hocus pocus' 👉https://wordfoolery.wordpress.com/2019/02/25/the-strange-story-behind-hocus-pocus/GDPR - General Data Protection Regulation - 👉 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_RegulationWARNING - the following links may offend some readers/listeners, so view at your own peril and on a personal, not work device.The Human Centipede horror movie 👉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Human_Centipede_(First_Sequence)John Dillermand, a children's TV show with an adult them 👉https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/06/john-dillermand-denmark-launches-childrens-tv-show-man-giant-penis

What does the word 'compliance' mean? On the face of it, we've all had experience of it under COVID as governments have introduced rules to influence our behaviour to stop the spread of the virus. But its influence is far broader than that, with applications ranging from corporate environments to the medical profession. It's even become an industry in its own right, complete with its own professional organizations and creating an ever-growing stream of jobs. As a result, the term has various meanings and academic studies looking at how it influences human decision-making have often been undertaken in siloes. If we want to understand what compliance means and how its objectives can be more effectively delivered, we need to look across the spectrum of applications.My guests on this episode, Professors Benjamin van Rooij and Danny Sokol, are the co-authors of a new book called The Cambridge Handbook of Compliance which seeks to meet this challenge. The Handbook takes a broad approach and explores the idea of compliance as being the interaction between rules and behaviour. Using this framing, it sets out to deliver a comprehensive understanding of what compliance is and what mechanisms and interventions are used in its service. By exploring different contexts and ideas, the Handbook explains what compliance is and provides a guide to how its objectives can be more effectively delivered. In our discussion, which was originally filmed as a video that we’ll be sharing as clips on social media, Benjamin and Danny explain why they wrote the book and what they hope to achieve and highlight some of the key themes it covers. By understanding what compliance is, and how its objectives can be more effectively met, we can adopt what Danny and Benjamin call Compliance 2.0.They also reveal their favourite or least favourite rule!Not only are Danny and Benjamin engaging guests, but their insights will be of interest to those working in compliance and those of us who are subject to compliance requirements. In other words, all of us! For more on The Cambridge Handbook of Compliance 👉https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-handbook-of-compliance/A7A803D987C9C001C6569395BEE5051CTo download the Introductory Chapter of the Handbook for free 👉https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3563295To find out more about Benjamin and his research: 👉 https://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/affiliated/van-rooij/👉 https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.htmlTo find out more about Danny and his research:👉https://www.law.ufl.edu/faculty/d-daniel-sokol👉https://www.whitecase.com/people/daniel-sokolTo hear Benjamin's previous appearances on the podcast:On his book 'The Behavioural Code' 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-the-behavioural-code/On his research into COVID Compliance 👉https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-covid-compliance/

Why is Peloton - a company that sells bikes that allow you to take on-demand and live classes at home - so successful? With a Net Promoter Score of 94 (that's 94% of customers who would recommend it to someone else), there must be a psychological explanation. That's what my guest Lisa Richardson has researched as part of her psychology masters.I'm interested in this because I've recently joined Peloton and absolutely love the product. I didn't think I would since I'd previously viewed it as a bit of a cult. The kind of people who had bought it, seemed to be incredibly fanatical and I didn't think that would be me. Yet it is. And this intrigued me. So I wanted to know more. Not just to answer my own curiosity about what had driven me to be so committed to an activity, I would never have contemplated doing in a gym, let alone at home. But also, because I think there are clues there about how we might persuade people to do things they're not naturally drawn to do - like comply with Compliance requirements at work.So whether you're an existing Peloton fan, you really don't understand what the fuss is about, have never heard of it, or as a cycling fundamentalist, think it's a terrible watering down of what cycling should be, this show has something for you. Lisa joins me to tell me what she discovered in her research. And what she shares has real implications for managing human risk.To read an article Lisa wrote about her research: https://thriveglobal.com/stories/applying-the-magic-of-peloton/You can read Lisa's research "Peloton as a Facilitator of Hope: Pathways to Initiate and Sustain Behaviors that Enhance Well-being" here: https://repository.upenn.edu/mapp_capstone/182/To find out more about Peloton, visit their website: https://www.onepeloton.com/

How can we create better connections with other people to help us meet our objectives? On this episode, I’m speaking to a Behavioural Scientist that was introduced to me by my good friends Tim Houlihan and Kurt Nelson, hosts of the Behavioral Grooves podcast. If you’re not familiar with their show, do check it out - https://behavioralgrooves.com/The reason I mention that is because it's highly relevant to the topic I’m going to be covering on this episode. That topic is influence and the ways in which human connection, trust and community can help us meet our personal objectives. My guest Jon Levy is a Behavioural Scientist who has just written a book called 'You’re Invited: The Art & Science of Cultivating Influence'. In it, he explores the factors that allow us to build connections with others and how we can make those work in our favour. By following simple steps – and by adopting behaviours that might at first seem counter-intuitive - we can develop much more effective relationships with others. Jon knows what he’s talking about. More than a decade ago, he founded The Influencers Dinner, a secret dining experience for industry leaders ranging from Nobel laureates, Olympians, celebrities, and executives, to artists and musicians. It’s got a particular quirk that Jon explains in our discussion.As you’ll hear from the opening, Jon is a lot of fun and the conversation took us to some amazingly unexpected places. If you’re at all curious about what builds a connection with people, then you’re going to learn a lot. If you’re not, then you’re going to learn why you absolutely should be. To find our more about Jon and 'You're Invited' and see his excellent TED Talk visit https://www.jonlevytlb.com/ And remember, when it comes to this podcast and reading Jon's book: You're Invited.

What does MTV have to do with fighting HIV? My guest on this episode Professor Eliana La Ferrara of Bocconi University in Milan knows the answer and she joins me to tell me more about her work as a development economist. Her specialism is in applied work, meaning that she collects and analyses data, mostly from families or individuals in poor or disadvantaged locations. And she tries to understand from this data, which policies might be effective in fighting poverty.In our discussion, we explore how Eliana became interested in researching the use of TV “edutainment” to change attitudes and behaviours in developing countries. That led her to work with colleagues from the World Bank and MIT, on a study of how MTV Shuga, a television series shown in Nigeria, might change knowledge and attitudes towards HIV and risky sexual behaviour. The good news is that it is extremely effective. Why, how and the lessons we can learn from that, is what Eliana explains to me on the show.You can find the World Bank sponsored research paper Eliana refers to here: https://bit.ly/3wKjA7uFor more on Eliana and her area of research: https://faculty.unibocconi.eu/elianalaferrara/

On this episode, I'm tackling two seemingly unrelated topics: how regulators use Behavioural Science & Depolarization. What combines the two is my guest Alex Chesterfield. She's a Behavioural Scientist that has worked inside a regulator, looking at the effectiveness of regulation on consumer behaviour and is the co-founder of something called The Depolarization Project.In the first half of our discussion, Alex talks to me about her time at the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), one of the UK's financial services regulators. While she was there, she deployed Behavioural Science in the service of regulation, asking the simple question as to whether rules that were designed to deliver a particular outcome — most obviously, in protecting consumers — was actually having the desired impact. We discuss the challenges faced in doing this and what lessons Alex learned from her time there.In the second part of the discussion, we explore The Depolarization Project, which explores the idea of disagreement and promotes thought about the things that divide us. Alex explains how the project came about and talks about the book and podcast that has come from their work. To find out more about Behavioural Science at the FCA, visit https://www.fca.org.uk/insight/future-behavioural-science-ambition-dose-humilityTo learn more about The Depolarization Project and the associated podcast Changed My Mind, visit: https://www.depolarizationproject.com/

Why, when solving problems, do we tend towards addition, rather than subtraction? Not in a mathematical sense, but rather in terms of how we think about things? That's what my guest on this episode Dr Leidy Klotz, has been exploring in some research and it forms the subject of his new book Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less.Having had an interest in the subject, Leidy observed how his son Ezra approached a problem they faced while building a Lego model together. You can hear about that in the episode. It prompted Leidy to explore why our natural tendencies drive us to pile on “to-dos” but not to consider “stop-doings.” We create incentives for good behaviour but don’t get rid of obstacles to it. We collect new and improved ideas but don’t prune the outdated ones. Every day, across challenges big and small, we neglect a basic way to make things better: we don’t subtract.It's highly relevant to human risk because if we're only looking at additive solutions, we're likely to miss subtractive ones, making our decision-making poorer as a result. And if you're in a profession like Compliance, you'll know all about how much easier it is to add rules, controls and policies, than it is to remove them. THe same applies to Regulators, Lawyers and a host of other jobs. So whether you're listening to discover better ways of improving your personal life, or for work, you'll enjoy this conversation.Leidy is the Copenhaver Associate Professor at the University of Virginia. His research is filling in underexplored overlaps between engineering and behavioral science, in pursuit of more sustainable built environment systems. He is also a former professional football (soccer) player, something I discussed with him on the show.To find out more about Leidy & Subtract: https://www.leidyklotz.com/To learn more about Leidy's research on Subtraction, I recommend: https://behavioralscientist.org/subtract-why-getting-to-less-can-mean-thinking-more/https://socialsciences.nature.com/posts/people-systematically-overlook-subtractive-changesTo see the YouTube video he refers to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y32OpI2_LM