At Last She Said It

When asked about the possibility of priesthood ordination for women in 1998, Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley famously told Larry King, “It would take another revelation to bring that about. I don’t anticipate it.” Big changes have come following revelations in LDS history, but must prophetic revelation always precede change? Even on a local level, many leaders are hesitant to innovate in small ways. Natalie Brown posits that “not every small experiment should require prophetic sign off.” In Episode 211, she joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about how change happens—or doesn’t—at church. Do debate and discussion have a place, and if so, whose opinions should be considered? And what about transparency in the decision-making process?

In Part 2 of the conversation about biblical marriage, Susan and Cynthia ask Dr. Jennifer Bird about virginity, purity culture, and—of course!—biblical polygamy. Joseph Smith drew on polygamy in the Hebrew Bible to justify instituting the practice in early Mormonism, teaching that sometimes God not only condoned but actually mandated it. So what does a feminist biblical scholar say about it?

Dr. Jennifer Bird, a biblical scholar and author of 'Marriage in the Bible: What Do the Texts Say?', dives into the complexities of biblical marriage. She questions whether traditional interpretations have clouded our understanding. With insights on the limited sayings of Jesus and the challenges surrounding women's roles, Dr. Bird explores how cultural shifts shape contemporary views. The conversation also tackles the implications of scripture on family dynamics and hints at a deeper examination of polygamy, offering a fresh perspective on ancient texts.

In this discussion, Amy McPhie Allebest, a podcast host and essayist renowned for her exploration of gender inequity in the Latter-day Saints community, dives into the complexities of patriarchy. She reveals how personal narratives can illuminate the struggle for women’s rights within religious settings. The conversation tackles the historical context of patriarchy, the necessity for equity in church leadership, and the various feminist approaches in advocacy. Amy emphasizes the power of empathy and emotional dialogue to inspire meaningful change.

When it comes to talking about abuse and violence against women, “You have to become comfortable with being uncomfortable,” explains Susan Madsen. In Episode 207, Dr. Madsen joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about the link between religiosity and abuse, and the power disparity that fosters it. Even where the Church is strongest, the statistics are troubling, to say the least. How might our church and its members move from lip service to leading "the army to protect home, family, and children?”

“How many things have to happen to you before something occurs to you," says Darice Auston, quoting Robert Frost. In Episode 206, Darice joins Cynthia and Susan to share some of the things that have occurred to her, and where those insights are leading her now. It's a conversation that illustrates the ways our unique experiences can shape and inform our spiritual life and church engagement, leading to a truer expression of our deepest personal beliefs.

“The natural world, with all its varieties of God’s creations, shows us so many [other] ways of being,”  writes Kaylee McElroy. Zooming out as far as human imagination can take us may bring our ideas about God and our relationship to the physical world into clearer focus. In Episode 205, Susan and Cynthia are joined by Kaylee for a conversation about everything: structures, darkness, creation, connection, and the convergence of physics and spirituality.

In a church where everything is “true,” how do we allocate importance? With only so much bandwidth, we all have to make choices about what matters to us. Which ideas do we find to be consistently resonant, or generative? Which produce meaningful fruit in our lives and relationships? In Episode 204, Cynthia and Susan take on the current interest in the Second Coming in a discussion about deciding what really matters.

There are some topics that seem to surface again and again in our ALSSI conversations: love, fear, self, change, and patriarchy, to name a few. In Episode 203, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Valerie Hamaker for a conversation that touches on these themes and others as we discuss evolving faith.

When things start to shift around our faith, the need to tell people about the change can feel overwhelming. There are all kinds of reasons people want to share—it can feel isolating to carry such big thoughts, feelings, and experiences alone. But depending on the circumstances, spilling the details of your evolving faith can have all kinds of consequences. In Episode 202, Susan and Cynthia discuss the question, “Who deserves to hear my story?”