
Discourse in Magic
Jonah Babins from Discourse in Magic tackles magic’s hardest issues, theories, philosophies, discussion, and more to help you explore. He jumps into all sorts of magic, and resources, and most importantly actionable tips to help better the art and become a killer performer!
Latest episodes

Jun 30, 2016 • 1h 5min
The Future of IBM and the Importance of Theatre in Magic with Oscar Munoz
In this episode we sit down with Oscar Munoz to chat about IBM( International Brotherhood of Magicians) , theatre in magic, and how to accept criticism when working together. We were very moved by his involvement and excitement about theatre. It’s nice to be impressed by the effort and attention to detail that magicians give no matter which direction that detail is in.
First Oscar spoke quite a bit about his involvement with IBM. Since he’s the incoming president we thought that he would have a ton of information about the organization, but instead we got better. He told us his ideas for the future of the organization and how it needs to be more focused on the involvement of the members.
After that we dove into the topic of theatre. Since he knew from a young age that he was going to be a magician he got very involved in theatre, plays, and performing that seems to be a recurring recommendation amongst top magicians. He explains that there is a theatre of stage magic, but also a theatre of close up magic, and we should treat it that way.
Since this month is about community we asked him about some of his advice regarding working with others. Immediately he spoke about the idea of letting go of the ego, and being able to accept critique. If we are going to allow ourselves to be in magic competitions and conventions, then we should be getting feedback. And if we want criticism we should be able to take in when it comes.
At the end of the episode he snuck in a knowledge bomb about theatre makeup and how important it is, if you’re going to be on stage, since theatre lights dull out your facial expressions.
Top notch advice.
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Jun 23, 2016 • 1h 28min
A Journey From Technique to Theory Through Friends and Mentors with Simon Black
After meeting Simon Black at Motor City magic convention in Michigan and watching and learning his mechanics I was knocked off my socks. But since then, he has really dove into the world of magic theory, specifically Spanish theory in his magic.
We chat about some major ideas in the episode, but specifically we touch on wish fulfillment and some parts of thepry which reflect that.
In this episode Simon did quite a bit of name dropping of his friends and mentors. Since Simon knows his stuff here are names of some of the top name drops in this episode
In terms of mentors he made sure to highlight four people: Asi Wind, Garret Thomas and Alex Pandrea and Tony Chang.
But Simon isn’t new to the idea of standing on the shoulders of giants to make his magic theory awesome. He spoke about some other very important magicians
Chan Canasta for his work on understanding chance and coincidence. He mentioned the study of Juan Tamariz‘s book The Magic Way, and of course highlighted the performance of Derek DelGaudio and quite a few others.
If you got anything valueable out of this episode leave a comment below telling us what worked for you
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Jun 16, 2016 • 1h 5min
How to be a Great Teacher, Mentor and Student of Magic with Aaron Fisher and Adam Grace
In this Episode we sat down with Aaron Fisher and Adam Grace from Conjurer Community to talk all about the student teacher relationship in magic and the blurry lines between them.
You’ve heard it before but once again we shoutout the relationship between us and Aaron Fisher which stemmed from Sorcerers Safari Magic Camp. Aaron also explains that the Playground of Sorcerers Safari gave him some ideas of the community aspect of Conjurer Community.
We reference some important things that this awesome duo is a part of, starting with Aaron’s book The Paper Engine which is an incredible book on some of the finer details of card magic and theatre, which includes some amazing effects. It was an incredible book in Tyler’s development through magic, and we totally recommend it if you’re a card magic guy, or even just a magic guy.
We got to dive into their introduction story, which starts from another great community The Society of American Magicians, which is the thing that brought these two minds together. A telling story of their introduction helps us shine a light on why these two work so well together.
Since these guys have been magic teachers and mentors for some time now we spoke to the about how to be a good magic buddy. One of the top pieces of advice from them is to focus on putting yourself in the right space, and focus on being a good friend.
Instead of trying to force a relationship with people Aaron and Adam recommend finding a community to get involved in and let the magic friendships follow naturally from that.
If you are interested in seeing what Aaron and Adam are doing over at Conjurer Community, please check it out.
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Feel free to check out either of their respective websites or on social media.
Aaron Fisher
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Adam Grace
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Jun 9, 2016 • 1h 7min
Playing Card Innovation and Economy in the Era of Crowdfunding with Lee Asher
Woooooo! ten episodes in, what an exciting episode 10 talking about magicians best friend: playing cards!
We hung out with our great friend Lee Asher got a chance to see his collection, and speak about the innovation in playing cards happening right now. Innovation in design, feel, build, look, weight, and other specifics that are getting heard by the factories.
The economy of playing cards is promoting innovation and making it much easier for the end users to have their voices heard. If that’s a magician it means that the look of the deck he is performing with can reflect what presentation or performance style suits them. One can imagine that the wants of a flourisher and the wants of a spooky mind reading, tarot card type are completely different.
We also get a chance to speak to Lee a little bit about the Fourniers and why he made thicker cards that he likes. European Paper, Baked instead of finished, right before the crowdfunding era Lee went through the grind of making playing cards before it was cool #hipsterlee. For us, Fourniers were one of the first packs of cards that weren’t bicycle cards. They are made to last and they do!
We spoke to Lee about the way the market of playing cards works which is sort of like Beanie Babies. There is obviously not a regulated market for these things, but definitely depending on when a pack was made, how many were made and who made them, they can be worth a ton. Now multiply that by a few thousand, and you can imagine how that could add up!
Then Lee spoke to us about the organization that he’s a part of: The American Playing Cards Collectors association, or 52 plus jokers. They promote and propagate the love for playing cards. Make sure to check it out if playing cards rae your thing. It’s free to get involved, and cheap to be a member, and the gbenefits are endless. They have magazines conventions and other amazing resources for people who love playing cards!
If you want to start learning history, information, news or anything else there is an incredible forum called Playing Card Forum, run by 52 plus Jokers. It’s totally free to join, and every question you could ever have about playing cards has already been asked and answered on there. And if I’m wrong, go ahead and ask it!
If you want to really dig deep, there is the Hochman Encyclopedia of American Playing Cards which is the most thorough encyclopedia on the subject to date
As well, if you live anywhere near Toronto, and this is your thing, there’s an awesome meetup soon happening at browsers den. They’re hosting the Toronto Playing Card Meetup on June 12th, 2016. Please check it out, there are going to be some awesome people there including Lee himself and other playing card enthusiasts around the area.
In addition, Browsers Den and Lee Asher paired up and gave an incredible playing card collecting guide. Take a look at it to spark your interest in collecting cards, and all the fun and finesse that goes with it.
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Jun 2, 2016 • 1h 5min
Magic Shops, Camps and Friends
We thought it would be great to interview some key players in our magic communities in Toronto and Canada that helped to bring Discourse in Magic together.
First we interview our long time friend Jeff Pinsky from the Browsers Den of Magic about the origins of the magic store. We conducted the interview at the magic store itself where he told us about the history of the shop, his mentality with the new generation of magicians, and some touching words about the family that he’s fostered here in Toronto.
Then we got an opportunity to sit down with Magic Mike (not the male stripper) from Sorcerers Safari magic camp. This was the place where Tyler and I met as magicians and friends. We talk about the awesome history and special guests of the camp, as well as the future and the very very exciting 2016 summer featuring Suzanne the Magician.
Finally we recorded a tidbit with Ben Train about what makes a magic community awesome, what makes it bad, and how to make your magic community incredible. Ben is a dear friend from Toronto who has grown along side us in the last few years. He is a great representation of a model magic community member. He is involved and interested in all magic projects that cross his path, making sure to be positive influence on magicians around him and not a negative one.
These are 3 of the many staples of our magic lives here in Toronto?
What magic communities have been important in your life and why?
Comment below!
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May 26, 2016 • 46min
Performing Tips for the Working Magician, From Restaurants to Big Illusions with Chris Westfall
In this episode we got to speak with a local Toronto magician and friend about his story through magic. He has a very unique tale of growth, possibly not intended. He moved from the restaurant world to the birthday party world, followed by comedy magic and now an illusion show.
In this episode he chats quite a bit about the beginnings of those 4 performing environments with a ton of tips for people just jumping in.
If you are starting out Chris recommends putting in hours to give yourself time to be a crappy magician, and then a good magician next, after you’ve put in your hours. Work at a restaurant charging a lower rate, so that you can put in the hours, and get your foot in the door. Many magicians want to charge quite a bit right out the door, but we should think more like comedians and actors who perform for free every night.
In terms of being on stage we got sone some great tips for making comedy easy. If it’s a kids show, he often brings the wildest, or most difficult kid on stage. A loud kid is much easier to work with on stage, than is a shy or timid one.
He also gives us some comedic tips. Some comedians recommend getting the first laugh in the first eight words, Chris tries to get it in the first zero words. It also pays off to have a few clever jokes that go over the kids head so the adults laugh, but if that seems difficult, and you’re starting out making the kids laugh is always the way to go.
If the kids are happy, then the parents are happy. The opposite isn’t necessarily true, so the secret is always keep the kids happy
In the episode Chris talks about one of his favourite magicians Rob Zabrecky. We don’t know much about rob, but since Chris mentioned it we have checked him out. Not only is he a magician, but also an actor and magician.
Browsers Den – This is the magic store in Toronto. Chris is a critical member of the Toronto magic community, and is often a familiar face. If you are ever in Toronto come by the magic store, and Chris might be there (if he isn’t performing)
Sorcerers Safari – One of the places where we know Chris best from is magic camp. If you liked this episode or anything that us or Chris said, come jam with us at Sorcerers Safari 2016.
Share your thoughts in the comments about other comedic tips, or worker tips. Is there something that you do to open your walk around or stage set that is particularly interesting?
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May 19, 2016 • 1h 13min
Ethics and Morals for the Modern Magician with Ben Train
In Episode 7, we finally get an opportunity to sit down with Ben to chat about the finer details of ethics in magic. This is a topic that we know is not usually spoken about, but as we touched on it in the last episode, we think it’s important.
As we explained people tend to think about ethics in their magic the way they think about eating meat even though the treatment of animals in the process is bad. They know its bad, but meat is delicious. Similarly, we know we should be ethical, but the unethical things are often the very things that make our performances powerful. That’s why these conversations are so important. To make sure that we are not the same as fortune tellers.
While we didn’t touch too much on outside sources, there are a few that I would like to mention, that played a big part in this episode.
Browsers Den – This is the magic store in Toronto that started it all. For all of us in Toronto its an incredible important hub. Cheek-to-Cheek was Bens first trick, we recommend a magic store as a great place for anyones first trick.
Sorcerers Safari – We often refer to magic camp, which is a place where we have all grown as magicians. If you have listened to any of the episodes so far, it would be clear that this camp was critical in our growth as magicians.
Otherwise the only magic-related notable things we mentioned are some of the works of Derren Brown, and Real or Magic, David Blaine’s recent television special.
Share your thoughts in the comments about ethics. How does your magic measure up ethically? How do you handle this issue? Do you care?
Before you do, you should check out the photo we made for this episode on Instagram. Heck while you’re at it, why don’t you just follow us! :p
For our 30 day magic podcast throwback we arrive at episode 7. Ben Train, another close personal friend of Discourse in Magic shares his view on morality of magic and metalism. Let us know what you think, we love it! Link in description #magicianslife #episode7 #magic #magicpodcast #magician #mentalism #morality #discourseinmagic
A photo posted by ?Discourse in Magic Podcast (@discourseinmagic) on Oct 12, 2016 at 7:45am PDT
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The post Ethics and Morals for the Modern Magician with Ben Train appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

May 5, 2016 • 57min
Designing magic for the screen and the stage with Patrick Kun
In this episode we had a blast chatting with Patrick Kun about his experiences with David Copperfield and Calen Morelli and his stance on magic online.
We spoke in great detail about something that he has put his heart into (pun intended) his valentines day series! They’re awesome videos, that I recommend you checking out.
Valentines Day Series
His first Valentines day video came out in 2011 with beautiful choreography, music, drawing and slight of hand.
In his 2012 video which he explains he had to do because fans started asking what he was going to do for it, so he knew he had to make it great. He totally delivered. He decided to tell more of a story, and it’s an awesome one. Take a look!
In 2013 his video he took the story idea one step further by making multiple endings. It’s sort of like a choose your own adventure. If u perform magic you will particularly enjoy the responses to the magic from the girl!
Finally in his last video he did something wild where he made a real interactive video with an ending that actually comes to life. As he explained it’s a trick that you give to your significant other. But then Patrick does magic to them through the screen
Follow us on Instagram for cool posts like this one (one for every episode plus some inspirational quotes for magicians)
For our 30 day throwback here’s episode 5 with the one and only @patrickkun talking about designing magic for the screen and stage. Let us know your thoughts. Check the description for the episode #magic #magicpodcast #magician #patrickkun #magicthrowback
A photo posted by ?Discourse in Magic Podcast (@discourseinmagic) on Oct 10, 2016 at 8:59am PDT
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Apr 29, 2016 • 0sec
Improv and being open to change with Chris Mayhew
In this episode Chris Mayhew explains how he uses improv in his magic and comedy to make it awesome!
Humble beginnings
In the start of the episode Chris talks about how he got into magic because of the Vanishing Rabbit magic shop. This is the magic shop that Chris Mayhew started learning magic alongside in Calgary. If you ever find yourself in Calgary stop by and say hey!
Calgary Alberta– In case you aren’t from Canada and are uncultured, Alberta is a Province and Calgary is a city in Alberta. It’s quite a nice place
Learning Improv
Improv is a main focus for this episode. Second City is a famous group that has produced amazing talent all over the world, check out the Second City in Toronto
Follow us on instagram for cool posts like these for every episode (plus some magical inspirational quotes)
For our 30 day throwback we’re sharing this photo of the wonderful Chris Mayhew. One of the top episodes, link in description. Chris is a great friend a hilarious magician! Check him out. @chrismayhew1 #episode4 #throwback #magician #magicpodcast #mayhewmadness #magic
A photo posted by ?Discourse in Magic Podcast (@discourseinmagic) on Oct 9, 2016 at 7:28am PDT
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Apr 27, 2016 • 0sec
Personality, character and connecting with your audience with Eric Leclerc
In this episode Eric Leclerc gives us a an inside scoop on how he builds his character and how we can do the same!Eric gives us his strategy for finding and developing character. His shows are incredibly fast paced and clever, we got a small taste of what they are like in this episode!
Early in the episode he spoke about a commercial he recorded in Tel Aviv, since recording the episode the commercial has been released and has gone somewhat viral Check out the video:
Piff the magic dragon- This guy made it to Penn and Teller Fool us, and to Americas got Talent in the same year. He is a great example of committing to a character. He’s an example we use many times in this episode and podcast!
At one point in the episode Jonah mentions a video that he likes of Eric with Tobin doing sponge balls This was a video that we were particularly impressed with since he was performing with a child for an audience of adults. Take a look!
Here is Eric’s awesome Murphys at the Table Lecture: If you like what he does check it out!
Eric is on loads of TV shows, you can expect to see him on shows like Brain Games
You should follow us on Instagram to see some of the amazing posts we make for each episodes (plus some inspirational quotes)
To celebrate our 30 days of magic podcast review we land on the wonderful episode 3 with Eric Leclerec @magic4yourbrain where he chats all about character and personality. Great episode!! #magicthrowback check him out on #tricked #magicpodcast #magician #throwback #episode3
A photo posted by ?Discourse in Magic Podcast (@discourseinmagic) on Oct 8, 2016 at 12:53pm PDT
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