Discourse in Magic

Paul Vigil has burst out of his native Salt Lake City taking his magic to TV and the Las Vegas Stage. He has appeared on Penn and Teller’s Fool Us twice. He trained with Johnny Thompson and worked as a street performer for years – slowly honing his skills. In his early 20’s he was only interested in performing magic for himself. He grew to understand the importance of developing an act that appealed to audiences. Paul has designed some really impressive stage shows. His goal is to challenge his audience but also to leave them satisfied. He likes to start his shows as big as possible to prove to the audience that he can do what he says he can do. On top of that, he wants to instill a belief in the audience that they can examine anything they want on stage. Paul has a powerful interest in ethnopharmocology. He wondered where magic came from in primitive ancient societies. He came to believe in the theories of R. Gordon Wasson. He pointed out that ancient societies flourished in locations on the planet where there was access to psychoactive compounds. Those plants in turn gave rise to shamanism – an ancient form of magic. Those ancient ways of understanding the world didn’t survive in modern societies. Paul was one of the earliest magicians to appear on Penn and Teller’s Fool Us. He was asked to audition along with most of the magicians in Las Vegas for the shows pilot. He had to show his effects three times that day but made it onto program. What was your favourite part of the show? Tyler loved hearing about the role of psychoactive substances ion culture Jonah loved hearing about the impossibility of world around us. So happy that Discourse in Magic is out there spreading the love of the magic. Who should we have on the show? Mike Piciata Ed Kwan Plugs Classic Fantastic Book Instagram The post Religion, Psychedelics, and Other Types of Magic with Paul Vigil appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

We’re have a really special guest this week. He runs Ellusionist and made waves with his viral performance on Fool Us. Adam Wilber also produced the best selling trick pyro and we’re really excited to have him in the show. Wilber was six years old when he stole a prop from a friend for a trick. He mastered that trick, fooled his dad and never looked back.  Adam studied education in college and thought he was going to become a PE teacher.  He started supplementing his income as a walk-around magician but it took another decade before he managed to make a living at it. In his 30’s Adam decided to work with Ellusionist as a way to get a steady paycheck. He worked relentlessly with the company – up to 80 hours a week and was eventually appointed General Manager.  That includes overseeing the development of new effects and managing the day-to-day operation of the company. There has been a lot of debate about what effect YouTube and Instagram is having on the magic community. Adam thinks it’s all about who you’re learning from not where. Being taught good methods and good ethics are the cornerstones of good magic. It’s the same principals that guide his work at Ellusionist. You have to recognize that these technologies are not going anywhere. Question for the audience? What is the message that you want your audience to takeaway from your performance? What is your favourite thing about magic right now? The people. We have a unique and weird community along with some of the best people in the world. The good people in this community are some of the best Adam has ever met. What do you not like about magic right now? Adam always felt that his magic wasn’t being taken seriously enough. He wants to really affect peoples lives. Who should we have on the show? Bill Abbott Bill Malone What was your favourite part of the episode? Jonah loved hating on the haters. There is no much positivity out there and it’s wrong to focus on the negative. Tyler loved hearing about the business model of Elluionist and about how you can learn from the greats simply by paying attention to their work. Adam’s wants everyone to remember one thing: Don’t be a dick! Plugs AdamWilber.com Ellusionist.com Instagram YouTube The post Behind the Scenes at Ellusionist with Adam Wilber appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Our guest this week is a brilliant mind in the magic community. He’s a magician, a priest and a raconteur – we’re really excited to have Jared Kopf. Every child is born with a sense of wonder that gradually dwindles. For Jared it never dwindled. He doesn’t remember a specific moment when he fell in love with the art form. But by the time he was a young kid he had become totally obsessed. By 14 he was making pretty good money doing walk-around magic in restaurants. By the time he returned to magic after university he was much more interested in the art of magic rather than just fooling people. Jared is deeply fascinated by how magic has informed human civilizations for millennia. One of his touchstones is the early work of sociology The Golden Bough which revealed how magic, religion and science were deeply intermingled in early human societies. Magic is a real phenomenon and he rejects the idea that it is reducible to simple deception. Not all magic is deception. Jared sees magic everywhere. It sounds crazy but he sees magic when he is paying for groceries with a debit card. That sense of wonderment permeates his work in film as well. He likes to achieve magical effects on camera but that doesn’t just mean using special effects. When you can make the viewer forget that they are watching a film – that’s a magic trick. Jared used to play comedy clubs quite a bit as a performer. But he’s not a comedian. There were only about three big laughs in his set. Eventually he stopped doing tricks and focused more on telling stories. It’s about putting the audience into a kind of trance. Magicians that are really popular can do that. All great artists are magicians but not all greats magicians are great artists. What do you want to tell our audience? Read as much as you possibly can about any subject that interests you. Be kind to people and know yourself. What do you want to ask our audience? Why do you want to fool people so badly? What do you like about magic right now? Jared enjoys seeing a performance by someone that is an expression of pure love like Teller’s Shadows. Who should we have on the show next? John Wilson What was your favourite part of the episode? Jonah liked hearing about the different parts of our world that are magical that don’t appear magical at first blush. Tyler enjoyed hearing that not all magicians are artists but all artists are magicians. Jared enjoyed talking about performing in a conversational style. Plugs https://www.instagram.com/jaredkopf/ https://www.facebook.com/jaredkopfmagic/ The post Real Magic with Jared Kopf appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

We made it! 100 episodes is a milestone we never expected to reach. Well, Jonah did. It’s why he started the numbering with 001. Even still, we’re super excited to have gotten this far. In this episode we reflect on how important the podcast has been on their own magic careers. “Everything that’s happened to me in magic over the last few years is because of the podcast,” Tyler says. One of the things that keeps this podcast is the constant feedback from people all over the world. It’s been incredibly satisfying to get messages from people that we would never expect to have found the show. Magic is booming right now and we’re honoured to be a small part of that boom. “There’s never been a better time to get into magic,” Jonah says. We’ve had some incredible episodes over the last 100 episodes. Jonah thinks that that Garrett Thomas episode is one of the stand episodes. It’s the one that he always recommends to first time listeners. There is so much in there that will make you totally rethink the way you do magic. Tyler loved having some of his close friends in the magic community on the podcast. Guys like Ben Train, Chris Mayhew, and Keith Brown have brought a lot to the show. At the risk of becoming sentimental we also have been reflecting on how the podcast has changed their status (somewhat) in the community. “I feel like I can actually offer help and advice now because I actually have something to draw from,” Jonah says. There have been a wide variety of personalities on this podcast but there have been some consistent themes have come up again and again. Magic doesn’t have to be everything is one of them. Tyler realized that he didn’t have to be the guy that worked constantly to make it. Magic will always be a part of his life but being a regular performer may not be the path that he takes. There have been plenty of ups and downs over the last two years. We’ve experienced nearly every possible technical hurdle including occasionally losing entire episodes. But we persevered largely because we enjoy doing this so much. Another big motivator has been the dream of interviewing some big guests. We may never get David Copperfield but we are going to keep at it until we get guests like Darwin Ortiz. In order to mark this occasion we’ve decided to offer some limited edition merchandise for fans of the podcast. There is definitely going to be a shirt and possibly a mug and (maybe) a pillow. We looked at a lot of different options and debated how much demand there is for this stuff. All the details  haven’t been confirmed yet but you can expect a full announcement in the coming weeks. We really appreciate all the support you’ve given us over the last 100 episodes. Thanks to everyone that has shared the podcast or talked about the podcast with other magicians. The show has seen incredible growth over the last few months and it’s all thanks to you! The post Is Discourse in Magic Ending? appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

We’ve been trying to get Michael Close on the show for a long time. You know him from his Workers project, his book Paradigm Shift and his work as a consulting producer on Fool Us. Michael was raised in Fort Wayne, Indiana and in that small town there was a magic shop. A guy named Dick Stoner ran that shop for many years. When Michael was about five years old he got a Sneaky Pete Magic Set. Eventually he realized that buying magic books was much more affordable than buying individual tricks. Michael says that Dick Stoner was a huge influence on his performance style and remains so to this day. Michael continued working as an amateur magician but it was while attending music school that everything changed. He heard from a friend that legendary magician Harry Riser had recently moved from Chicago to Indiana. Michael went to visit him and he his life was forever changed. “We hung out for years.” Michael says. “He became my mentor.” Michael worked as performing musician for several years. But he returned to magic in the early 1990’s. He started to work at a small magic club in a suburb of Indianapolis. His time at that club generated much of the material that later found it’s way into the Workers books which he released between 1990 and 1996. Later in the at decade he moved to Las Vegas and worked at Houdini’s Lounge where he performed magic and played the piano. He started working the lecture circuit and performed for many years. Michael thinks that many magicians will perform a trick without having any idea what the effect is. That’s because they too often jam several effects together into an incomprehensible mish-mash.  While working as a consulting producer on Fool Us he has seen dozens of submitted tricks that lack any coherence. Magicians need to script out their performance in his view. The first thing the Fool Us teams asks prospective magicians is for their script. If you want to try and get on to Fool Us Michael has some simple advice. First, you need an interesting effect. Second, you need an interesting presentation. You should ask yourself what is the five seconds of my effect that could be used as a promo? What will make people really sit up and take notice? A live audience is a captive audience. It’s difficult for them to get up and leave. But that’s not the case with a TV audience. They can leave in an instant. If you’re act is front loaded with patter or procedure you have to jettison that. Get to the effect right away. An interesting look or persona will help you to grab attention as well. Michael has just released two new e-books called The Paradigm Shift. The books are named after a move he developed that is detailed in the book. A pass is usually accomplished using you fingers. But in the Paradigm Shift everything is done using other body parts. The book combines text, pictures and video that you can download in a PDF format. What do you want to tell our audience? The magicians of the world need to realize that when they see a trick on TV it’s not yours. If it’s not for sale it’s not for you. Who should we have on the podcast? John Carney What do you want to ask our audience? Ask yourself why should anyone care? If you can’t answer that questions you need to rethink your act. What was your favourite part of the episode? Tyler liked hearing about how a trick needs to have a clear beginning middle or end. Jonah enjoyed Michael’s direction of how to create an act using scripting. Michael says the most important thing to understand what your definition of magic is. Connect https://www.michaelclose.com/ The post Get on Penn and Teller Fool Us with Michael Close appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Mario Lopez was just a kid when a friend put a lit cigarette into his fist and made it disappear. He learned how it was done and from that moment on he was in love with magic. Mario moved to Granada in his native Spain when he was 18 where he trained with one of the countries top magicians. He was taught the art of performance and how to create the magical moment. But he didn’t teach young Luis any tricks specifically. It was all about how to perform on-stage. Mario is incredibly dramatic on-stage which he says is a product of his environment. Clowns, actors and musicians are everywhere in Granada and they have all had an impact on his magic. Mario says his magic allows him to share with his audience. It’s a form of communication. Magic is all about sharing his emotions with an audience. Mario loved Loonie Tunes cartoons growing up. Those cartoon are all about creating impossible moments on-screen which is something Mario tried to emulate. Other performers that inspire Mario included Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. Mario believes that the magician is more important than the magic. Who are you really? If you let your true self shine through it will dictate your success. But too often people lack character and that’s why they are not engaging with an audience. When he first started he was very shy on stage. He was told repeatedly to talk louder and to look at his audience. Mario realized in the end that they were wrong. He became the shy g uy on stage. Play into your weaknesses. Mario’s Instagram presence is very unique. Unlike many other magicians he rarely uses cards. He shies away from card magic because he thinks it very difficult to be unique using that style of magic. He thinks its much more important to go to different places. Mining the same old material rarely creates something interesting. That said, Mario has still learned a tremendous amount watching other magicians on Instagram. There are many creative moments in a day, according to Mario. He allows himself to open to ideas at any time. Mario has a ton of weird objects on his table at home from chains to coins to cards. He is constantly playing with those objects. From that new ideas are constantly born. What do you want to tell the audience? Enjoy the process. Enjoy everything that has to do with magic. What do you want to ask the audience? Are you doing the magic that you love or not? What was your favourite part of the episode? Jonah liked hearing about how Mario uses his face so expressively. Mario liked discussing the importance of using his eyes and face to communicate with the audience. Plugs Instagram The post Using Your Face with Mario Lopez appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Lloyd Barnes grandfather became a travelling magician shortly after the war. He developed many tricks over the years and passed those onto Lloyd. His focus was much more on sport as a teenager – especially boxing and gymnastics. His university career was less than successful – he was thrown out in his final year. But that ignited his interest in magic and soon he was selling tricks and illusions that he developed himself. He was broke and homeless for a time and slept on many friends and families couches over the next few years. Lloyd now works with Ellusionist. He scouts tricks from other performers and from submissions to the company. He helps to make them more practical and performable. When you send a trick to the company, he’s the guy that reads the email. The other part of his job is to shoot and edit the trailers for the new effects. Along with his own performing career that keeps him incredibly busy. Lloyd has to watch an enormous number of submitted tricks. As you can imagine, many of them are really bad.  But not only that. He gets people submitting tricks with very little research. He once had a young magician submit the double-lift to him as a new trick. He’s always impressed when he receives a trick that was recorded in front of a real audience. It shows that the magician worked out and thought about how the trick should be performed. When Lloyd is creating his own magic he takes a very strict approach. He doesn’t try to change a move just for the sake of changing it. There has to be a reason for doing it. It has to make the trick better. And there are some avenues to be explored within existing methods but they are pretty rare. Lloyd recently released an Instagram showing a bill melting through a card. It’s the perfect example of a visual trick. For him a visual trick isn’t just showing the audience something. It’s showing them the magic occur right in front of their eyes. Lloyd is passionate about creating visual magic. That passion was born from watching so many tricks that were identical. He wanted to create something different. He has tried hard to create tricks that were unique and unlike anything else out there. There is a big bone of contention between magicians about whether we are trying to trick people or to make them truly believe. Lloyd counts himself in the latter category. He wants to create CGI right in front of your face. Who should we have on the podcast Paul Harris What do you want to tell our audience? Don’t be afraid to perform with the audience. Don’t perform at them. Listen to them and work with them. Be authentic. What do you want to ask our audience? If there was one thing you’d want to see in the industry what would it be? What was your favourite part of the episode? Jonah liked hearing about the quantity of people submitting to Ellusionist and about the mistakes that are often made. Tyler liked hearing how Lloyd first got into magic and how that has shaped his career. Lloyd is looking forward to seeing if people accept the challenge of creating a new trick. Plugs Instagram The post Visual Magic and Ellusionist Secrets with Lloyd Barnes appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

It’s episode 96 and time for another solo episode with Jonah and Tyler. We start the episode talking about what we should do to celebrate our upcoming 100th episode. We’ve had some pretty dumb ideas in the past – like listening to all 100 episodes in a row. We need your ideas on this one. Hit us up on Instagram! Tyler has an upcoming gig in February that he is really excited about. He is working at a bridal companies new facility in front of 800 people. Shout out to his brother-in-law for hooking that up! Jonah was at a summer camp convention which was super expensive. In the end not that many camps showed up to talk to him. On the brighter side Jonah connected with entrepreneur Noah Kagan. Noah wanted to learn magic and Jonah has been teaching him over Facetime. On top of being a magician to the rich and famous Jonah has also been performing a lot in and around Toronto. The Dream 100 is a list of your ideal clients that business gurus suggest you create. Jonah decided to create a list of the 100 guests he most wants on the show. It turned out that most of the people he came up with had already. But there were a few that haven’t. Tyler would love to have Neil Patrick Harris and Chris Pratt (because he did one trick one time). Jonah wants to get Juan Tamariz and Dani DaOrtiz and, of course, Penn and Teller. David Copperfield and Darwin Ortiz are also high up on that list. Jonah has been working on a trick that features a rotary phone. He calls himself from the future this made perfect sense at the time but now he wonders why a call from the future would be on a rotary phone. He is also in the middle of running a course called the Magicians Guide to Getting Gigs. He’s also working on another course that will help people to script their shows. MagiFest took place recently in Columbus, Ohio and Jonah was disappointed that he didn’t attend. David Williamson was in attendance and Jonah hopes that he was congratulated for his appearance on Discourse. The downloads for that episode were really high. Recently, we met up with a fan who came out to Toronto. We had some drinks, jammed a little and talked a lot about magic. We talked about making simple tricks play big and how to make a business out of the art. If you’re ever in Toronto be sure to look us up. We love meeting listeners of the podcast! Jonah asked Tyler what’s changed in the podcast over the last 96 episodes. Tyler thinks it’s become much more streamlined. The conversations feel a lot more comfortable and natural. The show is much more practical than it was at the start. Jonah agrees with that sentiment and adds that he loves hearing more about each of the guests lives. Jonah recently had an epiphany, recently, about his stage presence. He had been trying to take himself out of the magic while performing. But some prominent magicians told him that if it’s his show than he has to be part of the magic. As a wrap up question a viewer on Instagram asked if would ever want to start our own camp. Tyler said that he would rather die than attempt that. The post Look How Far We’ve Come appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

He is Blue Crown Magic, he is Alex Pandrea. He first got into magic when he was five years old.  A clown came to his birthday party and did tricks like disappearing silk or sponge balls.  But his interest continued into young adulthood.  He grew up in New York City and it was through the local magic shops in Queens like Tannens that he discovered more magic.  He created some new effects as a teenager. That love of creation continued as he progressed to performing for and hanging out with other magicians.  His love of David Blaine was all encompassing – to the point that he brought his own version of the fire wall to school.  That trick got him suspended and a ton of detention.  When he got to college he married at 19 and that forced him to grow-up very quickly.  That led to him creating his own material and doing his own shows.  Alex believes that a magic career, like life, goes through stages. Alex started Blue Crown in 2011 when he was still in college.  He had literally one desk job in his life and he quickly decided he wanted to avoid a 9 to 5 at all costs.  Alex began to teach himself the skills he was going to need – from web design to photography.  He began producing his own videos after painstakingly teaching himself Final Cut Pro.  Alex thinks that he got in at exactly the right time.  When he started producing his own playing cards there were only a handful of companies doing the same thing.  His first deck design sold out in less than 20 minutes and that took Blue Crown to the next level. Alex has also built a sizable audience on YouTube.  All of his content is available for free.  He does that as a way to create a close relationship with his audience.  He believes the community will be much more willing to support new products from Blue Crown.  The most successful entrepreneurs are those who are not trying to monetize everything all the time.  Alex has applied that philosophy to Blue Crown. Alex divorced when he was just 27 years old.  He packed up his entire life into his career and decided to deliver a few lectures.  He had always wanted to get out of NYC and the lecture series started with five dates.  Over the last three years that number ballooned to 112 different cities.  This has been the third phase of his career.  Putting meaning into people’s lives by teaching them magic has been incredibly fulfilling for him. The internet is often a very unfriendly place.  From comment sections to Reddit there is an incredible amount of trash-talking.  But Alex feels that it can be a place to create community as well.  Having a positive group that helps each other to grow is his goal.  Every revolution has it’s good and bad parts. Alex is trying to steer this magical revolution towards more openness and inclusiveness. Who should we have on next? Peter Turner What do you want to tell our audience? Take it slower. A lot of people rush through learning, performing and life itself. Take a step back and think about things more clearly. What was your favourite part of the episode? Jonah liked learning about Alex’s experience learning how to create online content. Tyler enjoyed hearing about the process of getting good at creating good content. Alex wanted to emphasize the importance of never giving up and never letting up on that momentum. Plugs https://www.instagram.com/a.pandrea/?hl=en The post Making Magic and the Playing Card Revolution with Alex Pandrea appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

We are here with a very special guest this week.  David Williamson is an incredible comedy magician and sleight-of-hand master.  David first fell in love with magic as a kid when he read a short story about Harry Houdini.  He learned the French Drop and his teacher said “maybe one day you’ll be a magician.”  He feels that he was bitten by the bug early and he had no other choice but to follow his passion. He was totally obsessed with it from a very early age.  Amateur Magicians Handbook was hugely important for David.  Harry Hay pointed out in that book that magic requires an audience to become real.  It’s an empty practice without someone else.  David was painfully shy.  But he forced himself to get up on open stages at bars at the age of 15. David’s stage style is very organic because he thinks he doesn’t really have an act.  It’s just attention seeking.  Get attention and keep their attention.  When someone looks at their watch in the audience it kills him.  He does a lot of corporate clients early on and he realized that focusing the attention on the people in the office was more important.  Eventually his act became more focused on the audience.  He doesn’t do a monologue.  He immediately starts audience interaction.  It’s play time. David thinks it’s very hard to give advice to up and coming magicians.  There are as many paths to success as there are magicians.  He once had an older magician tell him not to pursue his dream to be a professional.  But he totally ignored that advice.  When asked he tries to talk young people out of it.  If they don’t have the fortitude they will give up. Being overly picky about the audience isn’t necessary.  David just has one question: Are they human beings?  If so he can perform for them.  But he does have different styles for corporate clients or children.  David is known as being one of the funniest magicians performing.  But he insists that everyone has a sense of humour.  Magicians just need to figure out how to enhance their innate sense of humour.  You just have to commit to the gag.  Don’t wink at the audience.  The only way to get the genuine laugh is to forget about being the cool guy and committing to the gag. Turning a trick into a performance isn’t easy.  But every trick has a narrative unto itself.  Ideally, you can include a twist at the end.  Combining two effects can sometimes achieve that surprise.  But you have to ask yourself: “Why should people care?”  What is the emotional hook that will draw the audience in?  If you can touch them emotionally you will truly connect with your audience. What do you want to ask the question? Where did Mayer Effetz’s finger end up? What do you want to tell our audience? Stop doing a double-undercut.  David hates that move. Who should we have on the podcast? Richard McDougall Noel Britton What did you like about the episode? Tyler liked hearing that you always have to be a student. Jonah liked hearing about how David fell out of love with magic for a while but eventually reconnected it. David loved all the praise. Plugs? Circus 1903 in Las Vegas DavidWilliamson.com The post Becoming an Entertainer with David Williamson appeared first on Discourse in Magic.