More to the Story Podcast with Janna Maron

Today on More to the Story Podcast: Everything Makes Perfect Sense with author Brinn LangdaleI’m joined today by my client Brinn Langdale, whose powerful memoir Everything Makes Perfect Sense chronicles her journey through childhood trauma, self-discovery, and forgiveness. Brinn is a licensed psychotherapist who began her healing path at age 22, ultimately transforming her lived experience into a book that supports survivors and shines a light on shame, resilience, and personal truth.We talk about what it means to write a trauma story with intention—not as a “trauma dump,” but as crafted, meaningful literature—and the emotional and spiritual growth required to stand in your truth as a memoirist, even when family members may not be ready for what you share.If you are writing personal narrative about difficult lived experience, this conversation will remind you you’re not alone—and that the process itself can be transformative.About BrinnAt 22, Brinn began confronting her own childhood trauma, setting her on a lifelong journey of healing and forgiveness. Today, she runs a thriving private practice as a licensed psychotherapist, speaker and author. Brinn’s core message, that everything you do makes perfect sense and that healing is possible, resonates with a wide range of audiences, including students, professionals, survivors, and anyone seeking personal growth and self-improvement.In today’s episode* Brinn’s early journaling life and why writing helped her feel seen* The moment she realized her trauma—and how naming it shifted everything* The year she devoted entirely to forgiveness before turning 30* Starting the memoir during the 2020 lockdown and drafting the ending first* What her early “word vomit” draft taught her about storytelling* Working together through developmental edits and learning to trust her voice* The risk of hiding behind endless revisions—and when it’s time to move forward* Choosing a hybrid publisher and navigating launch + visibility* Family reactions to memoir, and how Brinn held her boundaries and truth with compassionLinks mentioned in this episode* Brinn’s book → Everything Makes Perfect Sense on bookshop.org (also available wherever books are sold)* Learn more about Brinn & her work → brinnlangdale.com* Submit or subscribe to Under the Gum Tree → underthegumtree.com* Book a free 15-minute book diagnosis call → moretothestory.co/bookdiagnosis* Get my Book Outline Formula worksheet → moretothestory.co/bookoutline* Try my family’s coffee → cafesantoro.com/janna for 10% off your first orderWant help figuring out the next steps for your book project? Schedule a 15-min Book Diagnosis call with me.Follow & Connect* find show notes at moretothestorypodcast.substack.com* follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for youHave you ever written something that asked you to step into your truth—even when it felt vulnerable or uncomfortable? Share your experience in the comments—I’d love to hear.Thanks so much for listening and being here.(AI Disclaimer: These show notes were generated by AI using the transcript of this episode.) Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story Podcast: A Client Interview with Barbara Caver, author of the debut memoir A Little Piece of CubaBarbara Caver joins me to talk about her debut memoir A Little Piece of Cuba: A Journey to Become Cubana Americana, which lands December 2 (She Writes Press / distributed by Simon & Schuster). We talk about the long, winding path from screenwriting and documentary work to creative nonfiction, how a five-day trip to Havana reopened childhood memory, and the way family recipes and sensory details can act as time machines for a life lived between places. About BarbaraBarbara Caver is a lifelong student of the arts and is an accomplished film and television production executive. She loves traveling, exercising, hiking, dancing, cooking, and eating, as well as writing about all of these things with great enthusiasm, affection, and humor. A Little Piece of Cuba is her first full-length memoir. Raised in South Carolina, Barbara currently resides in Jackson Heights, New York City.In today’s episode:* how Barbara’s writing life began (diaries at nine, film school, screenwriting) and how readers kept telling her this material wanted to be a book. * the catalytic trip to Havana in 2017 that unlocked deeper memories and the decision to tell her Cuba story as a memoir.* the sensory hooks that became anchors in the manuscript—airport smells, tiles, and the way place can call up the past.* the role of community, developmental editing, and coaching in moving from fragments to draft—including the 30,000-word early dump Barbara sent me and how we found the through-line.* the emotional labor of naming the book’s “why” (what the book is about beyond events) and trusting the feeling-thread over strict chronology.* Barbara’s publishing choice: why she submitted to and chose She Writes Press (hybrid publishing) and what that experience has been like.* what Barbara’s doing now—publicity, podcast interviews, a six-city book tour, and essays she’s placing in outlets like Lit Hub.* how the More to the Story community functioned as “creative Kool-Aid”—honest, protective, and un-coddling support that helped her keep going.Links mentioned in this episode:* Pre-order A Little Piece of Cuba at bookshop.org* Barbara’s site and book page → barbaracaverauthor.com* Barbara’s Substack: Tiny Escapes with Barb → Barbara Caver.* Learn more / submit or subscribe to Under the Gum Tree → underthegumtree.com.* More about my coaching & editing services → moretothestory.co* My Book Outline Formula Worksheet & Book Diagnosis calls → moretothestory.co/bookoutline and moretothestory.co/bookdiagnosis.* Get your 10% discount on your first order of whole bean coffee roasted from my parents’ boutique coffee roastery in Northern California at caffesantoro.com/janna.Want help figuring out the next steps for your book project? Schedule a 15-min Book Diagnosis call with me.Follow & Connect * find show notes for this episode at moretothestorypodcast.substack.com* follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for YouWhat single sensory detail (a smell, a sound, a taste) immediately takes you back to your family or childhood? Share it in the comments — I’d love to hear what surfaces for you.Thanks so much for listening and for being here! (AI Disclaimer: These show notes were generated by AI using the transcript of this episode.) Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story Podcast: An interview with author Molly Mogren KattMolly holds a special place in the More to the Story universe—she was my very first coaching client when I launched my business in 2020! Molly finished her manuscript, Mom Geans, with me, and in this conversation she shares the ups and downs of her journey toward publishing.Her memoir explores the decision to have kids after growing up in an abusive household. It’s a story about breaking cycles of generational trauma, cultivating empathy, and becoming the parent you always wished you had. We also talk about her path to finding an agent, the challenges of querying, and what it means to keep writing even in the midst of uncertainty.About MollyMolly Mogren Katt believes in making every day an adventure, and you can read all about it on her Substack, Hey Eleanor. She’s written for Food & Wine, Minneapolis-St. Paul Magazine, and Experience Life. Her forthcoming memoir, Mom Genes, chronicles her decision to have kids after growing up in an abusive household. It's a story about breaking the cycle of generational trauma; cultivating empathy; and learning how to be the parent you always wished you had. In addition to writing, keeping her kids alive and cooking, she and her husband Josh are currently restoring a haunted 1903 Victorian house in Minneapolis.In today’s episode:* Molly’s long road from idea to finished manuscript* Why the scariest part of memoir writing is often how it affects real life and relationships* What it’s like to query 60+ agents before getting a “yes”* Breaking up with her first agent—and finding another one* How to balance caring deeply about your work without being too precious about it* Why a regular writing practice (even imperfect) is essential for finding your voice* The current realities of publishing: costs, delays, and the state of the market* How Molly is keeping her writing muscle strong through her Substack Hey EleanorLinks mentioned in this episode:* Submit or subscribe to Under the Gum Tree → underthegumtree.com* My free Book Outline Formula Worksheet → moretothestory.co/bookoutline* Book a Nail Your Book Outline Session with me: moretothestory.co/nailyourbookoutline* Follow Molly’s Substack, Hey Eleanor: Molly Mogren Katt * Follow Molly on Instagram: @mollymogren* More about my coaching & editing services at moretothestory.coWant help figuring out the next steps for your book project? Schedule a 15-min Book Diagnosis call with me.Follow & connect:* Show notes & transcripts at moretothestory.substack.com* Follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* Follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for YouHave you ever felt scared to tell the truth in your writing because of how it might affect people in your life? How do you navigate that fear? Share your thoughts in the comments—let’s get a conversation going!Thanks so much for listening and for being here! xo(AI Disclaimer: These show notes were generated by AI using the transcript of this episode.) Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story Podcast: A debrief + book outline session with anti-hustle coach Tracy StangerI’m back after a summer pause to revamp how I’m integrating Substack with my work—and I’m kicking things off with a special conversation with my friend Tracy Stanger. We met on Instagram, grabbed coffee, and realized we share the same philosophy: do the work in a way that fits you. That turned into a trade—half a day on my business with Tracy, and half a day on Tracy’s book with me—followed by this debrief you’ll hear in the episode.Tracy is an anti-hustle business coach whose “Less But Better, Most You” approach helps human, justice-minded (often neuro-spicy) entrepreneurs focus on results—not just checking things off a to-do list—so they can do meaningful work and live their dream days.About TracyTracy Stanger is an anti-hustle business coach who believes we shouldn’t have to choose between meaningful work and living your dream days. She’s on a mission to prove we CAN have time for our dreams when we focus on RESULTS instead of just checking shit off a to-do list. Her Less But Better™ Most You business strategy helps human (justice-minded, often neurospicy) business owners use their uniqueness to make more money and more impact, with more time for rest, and less stress.In today’s episode:* how this episode came to be: a mutual “workday” trade and a recorded debrief* why Tracy stopped waiting to build a “giant platform” before writing her book—and started writing now* how we used a strengths analysis (think an amalgam of personality tools) to shape both her book and my business pivots* what changed for me: moving away from webinars → high-ticket yearlong delivery, to offers that fit my health, capacity, and season* the edit I delivered to Tracy: audio feedback + a written summary (hello, hand neuropathy workaround)* clarifying prescriptive nonfiction: bringing the reader along, adding bridges between ideas, and making sure each chapter delivers the outcome it promises* turning Tracy’s client process into a reader journey (a clear sequence the reader can follow)* the practical writing plan Tracy is using now: 25-minute sessions with her outline and manuscript open, steady and sustainable* why “Less But Better, Most You” isn’t just a business strategy—it’s a book structure, tooLinks mentioned in this episode:* my free Book Outline Worksheet → moretothestory.co/bookoutline* book a “Nail Your Book Outline” session with me → moretothestory.co/nailyourbookoutline* More about Under the Gum Tree → underthegumtree.com* More about my coaching & editing services → moretothestory.coWant help figuring out the next steps for your book project? Schedule a 15-min Book Diagnosis call with me.Follow & connect:* Show notes & transcripts at moretothestory.substack.com* Follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* Follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for YouWhat “should” about platform or process are you letting go of so you can move your book forward now? If you picked one 25-minute action for this week, what would it be? Share in the comments—I’ll respond (and may feature your question in a future episode!).Thanks so much for listening and for being here! xo(AI Disclaimer: These show notes were generated by AI using the transcript of this episode.) Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story Podcast: Why I Don’t Do Outlines for Memoirs (Part 2 of the Genre Conversation)This is a continuation of the genre conversation from the last episode, and I dive straight into something I get asked about all the time: book outlines. Specifically, why I do create outlines for prescriptive nonfiction (what I call memoir-ish), and why I don’t use outlines for memoir or personal essay.I also introduce a new term I’m using with clients—memoir-ish—to distinguish prescriptive books that are driven by teaching, insight, or process but are supported by personal story. This is different from memoir-plus (or hybrid memoir), where the personal story leads and other elements supplement it.If you’ve ever wondered whether you “should” outline your memoir, or you’re trying to figure out what kind of book you’re writing in the first place, this episode will help with clarity, language, and direction.In today’s episode:* what I mean by memoir-ish and how it differs from memoir and hybrid memoir* the role of personal story in prescriptive nonfiction* a client example of someone who thought she was writing memoir—but wasn’t* why prescriptive books need outlines (and how I co-create them with clients)* how your process, framework, and client stories become your table of contents* why memoir and essay don’t lend themselves to outlines* the puzzle metaphor: collecting pieces before trying to assemble structure* how outlines can constrict discovery in memoir writing* what’s really going on when memoirists spin their wheels for years* trusting yourself, trusting the work, and letting the story tell you what it needsLinks mentioned in this episode:* submit or subscribe to Under the Gum Tree → underthegumtree.com* get whole bean coffee from Café Santoro → cafesantoro.com/janna* book a 15-minute Book Diagnosis Call → moretothestory.co/bookdiagnosisFollow & Connect* subscribe & find show notes for this episode at moretothestory.substack.com* follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for YouAre you writing from discovery—or trying to force your memoir into a structure too soon? What do you notice about your own process? Share in the comments—I’d love to hear and may respond in a future episode!Thanks so much for listening and for being here! (AI Disclaimer: These show notes were generated by AI using the transcript of this episode.) Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story Podcast: Why I’m rethinking how I use the word “nonfiction” to describe the kind of books I work on.I’ve been rethinking how I describe the work I do with writers, and one thing has become clear: the word nonfiction doesn’t really serve us. It defines writing by what it isn’t, rather than what it is. In this episode, I talk about why that matters, how it affects the way writers think about their projects, and why I prefer to use the term personal story.This shift isn’t just semantics—it’s about honoring what writers are actually doing when they tell the truth about their lives and experiences. Whether you’re writing memoir, essay, or narrative nonfiction, centering story (instead of “not fiction”) gives you a clearer, more empowering frame for the work ahead.In today’s episode:* why the term nonfiction feels limiting and misleading* how genres like memoir, essay, and narrative don’t quite fit under the same umbrella* why story—especially personal story—is a more accurate way to name the work* how the words we use shape both the writing process and how others receive our work* what happens when you describe your project in terms of what it is instead of what it isn’t* an invitation to writers: to honor your story as its own genreLinks mentioned in this episode:* my free Book Outline Formula Worksheet → moretothestory.co/bookoutline* my masterclass designed to help you finally write (& finish) your book → http://moretothestory.co/finishyourbook* More about Under the Gum Tree → underthegumtree.com* More about my coaching & editing services → moretothestory.coWant help figuring out the next steps for your book project? Schedule a 15-min Book Diagnosis call with me.Follow & Connect* subscribe & find show notes and transcripts for this episode at moretothestory.substack.com* follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for YouWhen you describe your writing project, what words do you use? Do they feel true to the work you’re creating? Share in the comments—I’d love to hear how you’re naming your story.Thanks so much for listening and for being here! (AI Disclaimer: These show notes were generated by AI using the transcript of this episode.) Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story Podcast: A Reintroduction After a Summer BreakAfter a summer hiatus, I’m back with a fresh season of More to the Story. In this episode, I share what’s been happening behind the scenes—how I’ve been reflecting, pivoting, and rebuilding my business in a way that’s sustainable with my health and energizing for the women writers I serve. I also talk about Substack becoming a bigger part of my work, the importance of personal story in nonfiction, and a new layer of insight I’m gaining through Human Design.In today’s episode:* a summer hiatus and what I’ve been reflecting on since my MS relapse three years ago* why I’ve been experimenting with new ways of working sustainably* the challenges of using the term “nonfiction” and why I center personal story instead* how Substack is becoming the new home for my podcast, emails, and posts* shifting to a “mostly weekly” cadence to make the work easier and more sustainable* what I’ve been learning about Human Design and being a Manifestor—surges of energy, deep rest, and the ripple effect of creative sparks* how this new self-knowledge empowers me (and my clients!)* celebrating client wins: Barbara Caver’s forthcoming book A Little Piece of Cuba (available for pre-order now!)* how supporting each other—writers, readers, and coaches alike—creates a rising tide for all of usLinks mentioned in this episode:* More about Under the Gum Tree → underthegumtree.com* More about my coaching & editing services → moretothestory.co* Client books & success stories → moretothestory.co/about* Pre-order Barbara Caver’s A Little Piece of Cuba → bookshop.org* Follow Barbara on Substack for her book updates → Tiny Escapes with BarbWant help figuring out the next steps for your book project? Schedule a 15-min Book Diagnosis call with me.Follow & connect:* Show notes & transcripts at moretothestory.substack.com* Follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* Follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for YouWhat season of life or creative work are you emerging from right now—and how are you making it easier for yourself to sustain your next steps? Share in the comments—I’ll respond (and may even feature your reflection in a future episode!).Thanks so much for listening and for being here! (AI Disclaimer: These show notes were generated by AI using the transcript of this episode.) Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

There is a lot going on behind the scenes for me right now, including do I keep using the term “nonfiction” to talk about the work I do with women writing books?? What do you think? Leave me a comment with your thoughts! In today’s episode: - special birthday message to my husband, Jeremy, who’s birthday is June 2, the day this episode goes live 💜- going through it: income loss, job loss, illness relapse- being a little cryptic when telling your true personal story is part of your work but you’re not ready to share it! - taking a little pause, why, what it means, a little bit of what’s coming in the future - thinking and learning about the Substack platform, and how it will be more integral to my business going forward- if I don’t use the word ”nonfiction“ to talk about the work I do, what word do I use? - how understanding more about my Enneagram type (I’m an 8) has been helping me lately How You Can Support Me- pledge to become a paid subscriber of my Substack- make a coffee purchase at caffesantoro.com/janna- share my work: share this episode, forward my emails to friends you know who will benefit from it- show me some love with some conversation in the comments of this postLinks mentioned in this episode: - my popular masterclass designed to help you finally write (& finish) your book!- Get 10% off your first order of whole bean coffee from a boutique Northern California coffee roastery.- More about Under the Gum Tree- More about my coaching & editing services- sign up for my email list: https://jannamarlies.com/keep-in-touch- Follow, subscribe & find show notes for this episode at moretothestorypodcast.substack.com- follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story Podcast: Why I don’t teach structure for books. Well, technically I do, but not in the way that others teach it. Another conversation I had with a woman at AWP during one of the mini book coaching sessions I held was all about her book, which she thinks is going to be kind of a big family saga spanning her grandmother’s life, her mother’s life, and her own life. She’s sorting through family memorabilia, including letters, and she wants to do interviews with her ancestors.She’s feeling very overwhelmed with all the topics and themes she wants to cover, and all the material she already has. “Where do I start?” she asked. “I feel like I need to know what the structure is in order to start organizing and figuring out what to prioritize.”In todays’s episode: * yes, some writer’s work better with an outline from the beginning* when I recommend using an outline to start* why I don’t recommend one for this woman’s project* how to find out if you have enough material for more than one book* working without an outline is a little bit like walking in the dark* the linear structure of the narrative isn’t always readily available—and why that’s okay* interacting with the energy of your creative work* the work of an writer and an artist is learning to be comfortable in uncertainty, which will permeate every area of your life* how yoga taught me to increase my tolerance for discomfortLinks mentioned in this episode: * my popular masterclass designed to help you finally write (& finish) your book!* Get 10% off your first order of whole bean coffee from a boutique Northern California coffee roastery.* More about Under the Gum Tree* More about my coaching & editing services* book a 1:1 with me to talk about your book structure (or anything you like, really!)* Follow, subscribe & find show notes for this episode at moretothestorypodcast.substack.com* follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies* follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtreeQuestion for you: How do you practice increasing your tolerance for discomfort? Share you experience in the comments! You can leave a question, too, and I’ll respond (and maybe even address it in a future episode!).Thanks so much for listening and for being here! xo Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe

Today on More to the Story: a simple (but not easy) way to affect change or the outcome you’re hoping to achieve. In today’s episode: - inspiration from a recent book that I read, Be Ready When the Luck Happens, by Ina Garten- how I feel about celebrity memoirs, even though I have read a few (listen to find out which ones!) - a popular TV show from the 1990s that I wasn’t allowed to watch when I was in high school- leaning into the energy of curiosity and playfulness, holding things lightly and practicing not being too attached to expectations for a specific outcome- being too attached to expectations is what causes disappointment - holding expectations loosely to allow room for something surprising to happen- two stories from Ina Garten’s memoir that really stuck with me: one from when she and her husband Jeffery were engaged, and one from when she was the new owner of the Barefoot Contessa in the Hamptoms- a lesson that Ina has used many times in her life that can be applied to our creative livesLinks mentioned in this episode:- my popular masterclass designed to help you finally write (& finish) your book!- Get 10% off your first order of whole bean coffee from a boutique Northern California coffee roastery.- More about Under the Gum Tree- More about my coaching & editing services- the book Be Ready When the Luck Happens, by Ina Garten- Follow, subscribe & find show notes for this episode at moretothestorypodcast.substack.com- follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree Get full access to More to the Story with Janna Maron at moretothestory.substack.com/subscribe