More to the Story Podcast with Janna Maron

This week I want to tell you a story about an experience I had a the beach and relate it to something I’ve been learning about and focusing on in my life and observing how it manifests in our writing, creative, and publishing lives.In this episode: - my husband Jeremy and I have been vacationing in Baja California, Mexico and we recently decided to see how it would be to drive there from our home in Northern California- on our visits we take daily walks on the beach and would collect sea shells - I really wanted a whole sand dollar, and I found a lot of broke pieces but never found a whole one- I found not one, but two on our most recent trip, but not exactly what I wanted- unrelated, I was reading the book 10x Is Easier than 2x, and one concept that really stuck with me for how to measuring progress and success with a perspective that is either negative or positive- how this negative vs. positive perspective for measuring success shows up in our creative life- an example from a conversation I had with a woman at the AWP conference I attended in LA last month- the sand dollars are on the alter by my window as a reminder of the message that the universe will send me what I ask for, but maybe not how I expect- check out the show notes for this episodes to see a picture of the sand dollars- ask the universe for your own reminder and see how it manifests Links mentioned in this episode: - Get 10% off your first order of whole bean coffee from a boutique Northern California coffee roastery.- the book 10x Is Easier than 2x, by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy- Follow, subscribe & find show notes for this episode at moretothestorypodcast.substack.com- Follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies- Follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

I’m revisiting the topic of what a book coach does, and t’s on my mind because of the two conferences I went to last month in March (Alt Summit & AWP). At both conferences I held 15-minute mini book coaching session and had so many great conversations with women who are working on books.There were also a lot of people, more so at AWP, talking about what they do professionally and how they help writers in the books/publishing world from book coaches like me to writing coaches, editors of all kinds, and publishers.At AWP I was hearing a lot around the topic of book coaching that gave me pause, because it doesn’t align with how I do things. So I wanted to continue the conversation, talk about what I was hearing, why I disagree, and why I feel like it doesn’t align with the way that I work.In this episode:- giving myself time to recover from two back-to-back conferences- why I disagree that coaches and editors need to be different people- one of my superpowers as a coach an editor & the resistance that often comes up around the story that authors actually need to tell- maybe I’m a unicorn (?), but based on the way that I work, why I am someone who can be both a coach and an editor- why I will never preach absolutes - why I don’t like the use of the word “codependent” in the context of areas in life where we actually need help, support, or accountability.- there is no shame in needing accountability for taking action - how Gretchen Rubin’s book and the framework The Four Tendencies applies to what motivates you to take action, and why needing external accountability to meet your goals is a real thing- more important than whether or not we are ”codependent” is the question: how do we respond to expectations? - dispelling the absolute that coaches must be published in the genre that you are trying to publish- the coach’s track record with clients is more important than publishing record- the importance of focusing on what you can actually take action on and what you can control (i.e. unless you self publish, you don’t have control over whether you get published or not!)- the difference between coaching/editing/ghostwriting, and why I don't agree that editing is prescriptive and coaching is never prescriptive- a question I get a lot: isn’t developmental editing the same as, or very similar to, ghostwriting? Links mentioned in this episode:- More about Under the Gum Tree - More about working with me - Get 10% off your first order of whole bean coffee from a boutique Northern California coffee roastery.- The first episode I did on what a book coach is- The episode answering the question ”Do I need 100,000 followers to get a book published?” - The book The Four Tendencies, by Gretchen Rubin - Follow, subscribe & find show notes for this episode at moretothestorypodcast.substack.com- Follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies- Follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

Whew, we made it to April. March was an incredibly busy month for me. I was out of town March 14-17 for a conference called Alt Summit, and then again March 22-30 for another conference called AWP. Even before leaving for both those trips I was asking myself the question: was that the best decision? To commit to going to two conferences back-to-back? Last year when AWP was in Kansas City, I was one year post-relapse and new treatments but still had a lot of lingering symptoms. So instead of attending the entire conference for 3 days, I stayed just 2 nights and my priority for being there was the off-site reading event that I have been hosting for 9 years now with three other nonfiction publications.In this episode: - how it was such a relief to still attend the conference in a way that works for me- why I was in no condition to travel and had to skip the AWP conference in 2023- when we don't have the capacity, bandwidth, energy to deal with, yes travel and logistics, but also our creative lives - how I'm able to get my monthly medication infusions at home- even getting my treatments at home, why the infusions in February and March went badly - what I learned from two bad infusions in a row & why this was such an eye-opening experience- how this lesson came up for me again when attending the Alt Summit conference - the anxiety that came up for me around needed additional support to do the things that I used to be able to do on my own- learning to be okay with the reality of being dependent - how leaning into asking for help and accepting support directly impacts creative work- how to cultivate self-awareness, advocate for the support you need, and have the conversations you need to have with people in your life- if you have been learning lessons the hard way, what do you need to do to make change?Links mentioned in this episode:- Alt Summit: https://altitudesummit.com/- AWP conference: https://awpwriter.org/- follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/undergumtree/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

At one of the two conferences I attended last month, one of the questions I got was: what is a book coach? Which is the perfect question for a podcast episode. In this episode: - a newly published book by one of my clients! - the meetup I hosted on authors & publishing at the Alt Summit conference last month- realizing that I haven’t talked about what a book coach is on this podcast- certification for book coaches, and why I’m not certified or think it’s necessary- an overview of my 20+ career history from my first job out of college to starting my business in 2020- a big part of the way that I work as a book coach & an inside joke for WWJD with my clients- my take on how coaching is different from editing: not all coaches are editors & not all editors are coaches- the difference between book coaches, writing coaches, and author coaches- what exactly a book coach can help you with, and when to engage one- tune in next week for more on managing health & energy, regardless of what it is you’re doing, whether it’s traveling and attending conferences or your every day creative workLinks mentioned in this episode: - Order books at bookshop.org to support independent book stores. - Christina Larocco’s book, Crosshatch: Martha Scofield, the Forgotten Feminist (1839-1916)- The Alt Summit conference: https://altitudesummit.com/- Jennie Nash’s Substack, The Art & Business of Book Coaching & the post, “Book Coaching 101, Part 1: What‘s a Book Coach?”- Jane Friedman’s book The Business of Being a Writer- Get my list of resources for finding literary agents- follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree- Show notes & subscribe to More to the Story Podcast on Substack: https://moretothestorypodcast.substack.com/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

I’m at AWP this week! If you’re also in LA for this annual conference, be sure to stop by Under the Gum Tree’s booth 1213 to say hello.Two things I’m doing at AWP this year:1. Hosting 15-minute mini-consults for women working on nonfiction books. If you could use a mini book coaching session, check here to see if there are any spots available and grab one.2. Under the Gum Tree’s off-site reading in partnership with Fourth Genre, River Teeth, and Hippocampus Magazine. On Friday, March 28 from 6-8p at Bonaventure Brewing Co. Under the Gum Tree’s featured readers are Laura Julier and Brad Snyder.In this episode:- If you’re not familiar, what is AWP? An overview and quick & dirty intro for first-timers- What to expect with the conference schedule- What to expect at the book fair, and why it’s probably my favorite part of the conference- A reflection on my first ever AWP back in 2009 or 2010 (can’t quite remember which year)- What came out of that first conference for me (practically everything I’m doing with my writing & business now)- Info on this year’s off-site event, in partnership with three other nonfiction publicationLinks mentioned in this episode:- Under the Gum Tree: underthegumtree.com- More to the Story coaching & editing for women: moretothestory.co- AWP in LA, March 27-29- Becky Tuch's Substack, Lit Mag News, and this post about the AWP conference- Link to schedule a 15-min book coaching session with me- Under the Gum Tree’s off-site reading on Friday 3/28 at 6p- The book I mentioned, On Our Best Behavior, by Elise Loehnen & the work of manifestation expert Lacy Phillips- Summer 2024 issue of Under the Gum Tree, featuring Laura Julier- Spring 2025 issue of Under the Gum Tree, featuring Brad Snyder- follow me on Instagram: @jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

For months now, maybe even a year or more, I have been wanting to spend 10 minutes, first thing in the morning, drinking my coffee outside.I set up the perfect spot to sit, with chairs facing east toward the rising sun, moved the gas fire pit over to the chairs. But for some reason I couldn’t get myself to take my coffee outside in the mornings.Actually I know exactly the reasons:1. It’s been winter time, and cold, and less sunny, and not the ideal weather for wanting to be outside.2. Because of the time I get up in the mornings, I would wake up, look at the clock and automatically think, “I’m behind.”In this episode:- more about why I sleep so much, which precipitated the “I’m behind” narrative- a conversation with a friend who was telling herself the same thing, about a completely different situation- how we both got ourselves out of the “I’m behind” cycle and laughed at ourselves- how you can get out of that cycle tooLinks mentioned in this episode:- Under the Gum Tree: underthegumtree.com- More to the Story coaching & editing for women: moretothestory.co- AWP in LA, March 27-29- follow me on Instagram: @jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

I saw a Notes thread on Substack recently that someone had shared an article, commenting that it was the saddest thing she had read on Substack that day.It had a lot of comments, so I clicked to read out of clarity and then curiosity. Clarity, because at first I didn’t get what was so sad about the article. Then curiosity, because as soon as I figured it out, I wanted to see what others had said.Maybe you already guessed that this thread was one long b***h-fest.The comments were all writers bemoaning that Substack has been infiltrated by what they called "Linked-In self promotion content," complaining that all they want to do is write and not try to figure out how to hack the system for growth.I have thoughts.In this episode:- why selling & self-promotion doesn’t have to be icky- how to make selling & self-promotion not icky- why anyone with writing they think can help (or teach, or entertain, or comfort) others should actually want to share it- why self-promotion isn’t selling out (unless you don’t want to be successful as a writer)Links mentioned in this episode:- Under the Gum Tree: underthegumtree.com- More to the Story coaching & editing for women: moretothestory.co- Alt Summit in Palm Springs, March 14-17- AWP in LA, March 27-29- follow me on Instagram: @jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

Someone sent me this question recently, and man did it get me fired up.Whenever I hear any so-called advice (from anyone) saying you need XYZ specific thing in order to get published, my first response is:Well, how does saying that benefit THEM?Here’s the thing: do you need 100,000 followers to get published? NO. Absolutely not. Would it be helpful? Of course.But (and this is a big BUT), there is a lot of nuance to this question, which I unpack in this episode.Listen in for:- thinking through using Substack, making work sustainable, whether or not to turn on paid subscriptions for this podcast, and doing work that’s easy and that I want to do- why someone would say something like, “you need 100,000 followers to get published”- what we mean when we say “get published” & the importance of distribution- how to determine whether going after hundreds of thousands of followers makes sense for YOU- why your own personal vision + goals are the most important thing to inform your book publishing decisionsLinks mentioned in this episode:- Subscribe to More to the Story podcast in Substack: https://moretothestorypodcast.substack.com/- Under the Gum Tree: underthegumtree.com- More to the Story coaching & editing for women: moretothestory.co- Past More to the Story episode ”If you want to publish a book, what is it that you actually want?”- Brooke Warner’s Substack & post on distribution- Alt Summit in Palm Springs, March 14-17- AWP in LA, March 27-29- follow me on Instagram @jannamarlies- follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram @undergumtree This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

When an opportunity for expansion and growth presents itself, but it’s something you’ve never done before, what’s your first instinct? To avoid doing it? To dismiss it simply because you’ve never done it? Maybe the idea of trying the thing hasn’t even occurred to you because you’ve never done it.But just because you’ve never done something doesn’t mean you can’t do it, or shouldn’t do it. In fact I would argue that when this type of resistance comes up it’s a good indicator that it’s time to do some self-reflection and some exploring by first, getting curious and asking yourself some questions, and, second, taking one small action to get just a little closer to the thing you’ve never done.In this episode I share an example of a client who came up against this resistance + some questions to ask yourself when it comes up for you.Links mentioned in this episode:- Subscribe to the podcast on Substack: moretothestorypodcast.substack.com- My signature video course: Nonfiction Bootcamp- Follow me on Instagram: @jannamarlies- Follow Under the Gum Tree on Instagram: @undergumtree- Sign up for my email list: jannamarlies.com/keep-in-touch- Alt Summit in Palm Springs, March 14-17- AWP in LA, March 26-29 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com

When I introduce myself as a book coach, nearly every single woman I meet responds with, “Oh my gosh, I’ve always wanted to write a book.” Then we get to talking about what’s holding them back, and it is always some variation of “I’m not ready.” It usually sounds something like:- I’m waiting until I have a larger following.- I’m waiting until my kids are older. - I’m waiting until my business is more established.- I have to take care of XYZ thing first. - Now isn’t the right time because of XYZ. - I’m not a good enough writer.- I don’t know where to start!- It’s a big, scary, overwhelming project, and I don’t know how to do it!All of these are a version of feeling like you’re not ready to do this thing that you say you’ve always wanted to do, and here’s a secret: If you’re waiting until you’re “ready,” you never will be!It’s kind of like producing the first ever episode of Saturday Night Live, which I talk about in this episode after watching the movie Saturday Night on Netflix. That first night, the network producer kept trying to convince Lorne Michaels, the creator of the show, that they were’t ready and they should just try again the next week. But if he had done that, would there even be the great institution of American culture and comedy that we know and love today?Links mentioned in this episode:- Subscribe to the podcast on Substack: moreothestorypodcast.substack.com- More about Under the Gum Tree: underthegumtree.com- More about my coaching & editing: moretothestory.co- Sign up for my email list: jannamarlies.com/keep-in-touch This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit moretothestorypodcast.substack.com