The Thoughtful Travel Podcast

Various statistics suggest that more than half of travellers want to see animals when they travel: that's why we keep returning to the topic of animal tourism and how we can do this in ways that both keep humans interested in caring for animals but without doing too much harm - and while bearing in mind that for many communities, animal tourism can be a significant part of their economy. To sum up: it's tricky! In this episode I get a bunch of different perspectives. I start with Eryn Gordon, a travel writer who visited Thailand and had her first encounter there with an animal sanctuary that was ethical on paper but made her question this when she was there in person - something that many tourists experience. Next, I speak with safari guide Suyash Keshari, who has many years of experience working in tourism with tigers in India (and other animals around the world), and discusses the difficult balance of tourist behaviour that does and doesn't impact animals in ways that actually change their lives. Finally, John Roberts takes us back a couple of decades to describe some of what was happening when the world first started to consider whether it was okay or not to train and tame elephants for tourism purposes, and some of the tricky elements of this in the Thai context in particular.  Links: Eryn Gordon’s website Earth to Editorial - https://earthtoeditorial.com/  Eryn's TEDx Talk on “What it means to be a good traveler” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WQYSdm-5ps  Suyash Keshari, Ameliya Safaris - https://ameliyasafaris.com/   John Roberts, Group Director of Sustainability and Conservation, Minor Hotels -https://www.minorhotels.com/  Whither Captive Elephants? by Daniel Stiles - https://medium.com/@danielstiles/whither-captive-elephants-f4e70a36aff8  Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/381Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's (somehow!) six years ago that we started to learn about this new virus and then find ourselves caught up in a global pandemic. While there were some truly tragic parts to that crisis, it turns out there were also some good results, too. Quite by chance recently, two guests in the space of a couple of days told me stories about huge changes in their lives brought about by their travels around Covid times, and these stories were so interesting I quickly decided to create a whole episode on the topic. First up, I chat with Shannon O'Brien, an international school teacher who was actually working at a school in Shenzhen, China, at the start of 2020. During a school break for the Chinese New Year, Shannon flew to Sumatra, Indonesia, for a short holiday. Spoiler alert: it became a very long holiday! I then speak with Eva Westerling, a German doctor who in 2019 had decided that it was time for a big change and was contemplating a permanent shift to Morocco. When the pandemic hit, she and her partner were in the earliest stages of setting up a tourism business in Morocco, and then of course, no tourists came.  My final guest is Eryn Gordon, who was working a corporate job in the United States when the pandemic began, and she soon found herself out of work. Instead of laying low like many of us did during Covid times, Eryn instead decided to get a new qualification and move to the other side of the world, to work in Seoul, South Korea. Links: Shannon O’Brien - https://www.shannon-obrien.com/ Shannon’s memoir Stray - https://amzn.to/4bQdiKT  Eva Westerling’s blog Not Scared of the Jet Lag - http://www.notscaredofthejetlag.com Eva’s tour business in Morocco, Berber Adventure Tours - https://berberadventuretours.com/  Eryn Gordon’s website Earth to Editorial - https://earthtoeditorial.com/  Eryn's TEDx Talk on “What it means to be a good traveler” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WQYSdm-5ps Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/380   *Full disclosure: Amazon Services LLC Associates Program NotABallerina.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.  Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you imagine that we didn't used to talk about overtourism? It's really only a decade since this word entered common usage but it seems we hear about it constantly now. In this episode I chat with two guests who have great perspectives to add on this issue, and I also share some tips on how we can deal with overtourism as travellers. First up, I chat with Christine Newell, who spent a year living in Seoul, South Korea, before it became a big deal on the international tourist radar. She talks about how it has changed over the past two decades and gives examples of mitigation efforts like curfews keeping tourists out of particularly affected areas. I then speak with Bex Thomas, who started giving serious thought to issues like overtourism and economic leakage in tourism some years back when she and her friend made an effort to book locally to climb Mt Kilimanjaro. She highlights how being more mindful about our tourist time and dollars can also lead to a better travelling experience - win-win! Finally, some tips on how we can deal with overtourism to both make our own trips better and impact the places we visit positively instead of negatively - drawing on my own experiences and a great blog post from Erin Hynes. Links: Christine Newell - https://www.christinenewell.com/ Christine’s book Five Seasons in Seoul - https://amzn.to/4hHQmhb  Bex Thomas - Sabbatical Stories Podcast  - https://bexthomas.com/podcast/  Community Back Pocket - https://communitybackpocket.com/  Erin’s post on overtourism - https://pinatravels.org/avoid-contributing-to-overtourism/ Erin’s post on economic leakage - https://pinatravels.org/what-is-economic-leakage-in-tourism/ Episode 378 Seoul Trip Report - https://notaballerina.com/378  Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/379   *Full disclosure: Amazon Services LLC Associates Program NotABallerina.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I last saw South Korea's fabulous capital Seoul way back in 2002, so when my 15-year-old son spotted a great flight price in November I was very keen to take him there! This podcast episode reports back on our week in Seoul, and I even persuaded my son to come on and chat about our trip, too.  I'm a big believer in being a thoughtful traveller in all phases of a trip, so in this episode I start off explaining the three things I did to prepare for our trip (at short notice - we booked a fortnight before we left) - and they do not involve planning a day-by-day itinerary. My son Ruben and I then chat about some of our favourite parts of the trip, including the best day out, most delicious meal and our most fun shopping experiences. I give us a rating on the thoughtful travel scorecard and then finish up by explaining our budget - for once I had all the figures to hand and several people had asked me. Listen and tell me if you think our budget was appropriate or not! Links:  Korea travel reading list - https://amzn.to/45Oxn0l Ruben’s YouTube channel of Pro Clubs (FIFA) gaming, Reginald Ramen - https://www.youtube.com/@ReginaldRamen   The best moments of my trip to South Korea were not on my itinerary - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/p/the-best-moments-of-my-trip-to-south  PLK Travel for DMZ Tour - https://www.plktravel.com  My Seoul Map - https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1s8N441QUJAOnjRQUMH0X9D6H6unt6cU&usp=sharing Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/378   *Full disclosure: Amazon Services LLC Associates ProgramNotABallerina.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How often do we go somewhere with a preconceived idea and find it hard to really see other perspectives ... well, speaking for myself, pretty often! In this episode I share three stories which highlight ways to learn about and understand different perspectives - but are also just great stories on their own. First up, Kiliii Yuyan tells me about his experiences in Palau, and shares a fascinating story from Palauan culture which is vital to helping their coral reefs recover from algal blooms in a way I wish other reefs could. Next, Jamie Burr explains some of the results of his research into Chinese attitudes to carbon offsets - quite honestly, a perspective I'd never considered, and an interesting one indeed! Finally, Monisha Rajesh shares two examples of overlooked, alternative perspectives, one from her travels in Tibet, and another from a fellow tourist in North Korea. Links: Killii Yuyan’s website - https://kiliii.com/  Kiliii’s new book - Guardians of Life: Indigenous Knowledge, Indigenous Science, and Restoring the Planet - https://amzn.to/3YcpYUx Jamie Burr - https://jamieburr.com/  Monisha’s website https://monisharajesh.com/  Moonlight Express: Around the World by Night Train - https://amzn.to/4mm4UEN  Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/377   *Full disclosure: Amazon Services LLC Associates ProgramNotABallerina.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This special episode is the audio of the Facebook Livestream of the December 2025 meeting of the Thoughtful Travellers Book Club, chatting about book "The Geography of Bliss" by Eric Weiner - https://amzn.to/47KtLea  If you'd like to join the Thoughtful Travellers Book Club, sign up for our updates at https://thoughtfultravellersbookclub.substack.com/ You can also read more about it at https://notaballerina.com/bookclub, and you can keep up with all the thoughts about our current books in the Thoughtful Travellers Facebook Group at https://facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers  *Full disclosure: Amazon Services LLC Associates ProgramNotABallerina.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The end of 2025 is imminent and it's time to look back on our discussions and travels and then get ready for a thoughtful and fun 2026! In this episode I'll tell you which episodes were the most downloaded during 2025 and share some other podcast highlights. And then it'll be crystal ball time: what will 2026 bring us? Listeners have weighed in with some of their concrete travel plans as well as some ideas that they're not quite sure about yet; and because 2026 will be the 10th anniversary of The Thoughtful Travel Podcast, I'll let you know about some exciting plans I have for celebrating this milestone. Thanks to all my wonderful listeners and community members of thoughtful travellers - both for listening to episodes every week and for all your discussions and feedback. I'm so lucky to have you all! Happy New Year and wishing you all safe and thoughtful travels in 2026. Links: Get podcast merch - https://www.teepublic.com/user/the-thoughtful-travel-podcast Substack subscription - listener and community special of 50% off Substack https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/subscribe?coupon=00e800ba or https://www.notaballerina.com/half  Hannah Kent's book Always Home, Always Homesick - https://amzn.to/49xigL6  Event link for our February 2026 book club with Hannah Kent - https://www.facebook.com/events/884742791192736  Book Club info also available at https://thoughtfultravellersbookclub.substack.com/ RISE Travel Institute's Experiential Journey https://www.risetravelinstitute.org/rise-experiential-journey Tracy Collins - UK Travel Planning Podcast - https://uktravelplanning.com/  Barefoot Backpacker - Travel Tales from Beyond the Brochure - https://barefoot-backpacker.com/category/podcast/  Michael Jensen - Brent and Michael are Going Places -https://www.brentandmichaelaregoingplaces.com/  Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/376   *Full disclosure: Amazon Services LLC Associates ProgramNotABallerina.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Chris Christensen had the foresight to start a travel podcast before almost anyone had even heard of podcasts - way back in 2005. The Amateur Traveler podcast is still going strong - and is approaching its one thousandth episode.  Chris and I chatted about the evolution of podcasting in general and the Amateur Traveler specifically, his approach to life now that he has retired from his 'day job' to the podcast, and what he thinks it means to be a thoughtful traveller. Links: Amateur Traveler - https://amateurtraveler.com/  Chris's previous appearances back in Episode 40 - https://notaballerina.com/40 and Episode 32 - https://notaballerina.com/32  Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/375 Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When I learnt that past guest Renae Ninneman runs a business providing cultural intelligence assessments and intercultural training I was immediately fascinated. And when Renae offered to guide me through a CQ - cultural intelligence - assessment complete with a debrief, and was happy to record it so I could share some on the podcast, I was thrilled! Cultural differences have captivated me particularly strongly since I began teaching in Japan in 2001, when I had a perfect opportunity to learn many of the nuances of cultural differences in my conversational lessons with students.  In this episode, Renae discusses the results of my CQ assessment and we also talk about what to do with this knowledge - taking it beyond just a point of interest to help with communication in all kinds of situations, including when meeting people of different cultures on your travels. Links: Renae Ninneman - Beyond Tourism: Cultural Travel and Training - https://www.goingbeyondtourism.com/   Renae on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/goingbeyondtourism  Renae on TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@beyond_tourism  Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/374  Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Travelling to observe animals in the wild is a huge reason that we move around the world. The best case scenario is that we can see them without disturbing their environments or habits, perhaps take some photos, and head home. The worst case scenario is that something goes wrong and these animals become dangerous to humans! In this episode - spoiler alert, everyone survives, animals included! - we have some great stories of animal encounters in the wild. We start with Satyajit Das, author of "Wild Quests" about his experiences with ecotourism and animal encounters, and he takes us back a couple of decades to a visit to Venezuela looking for green anacondas. Next up, Ameliya Safaris owner Suyash Keshari tells us his signature "campfire story", the one he scares his safari guests with frequently - and it's about a particularly close tiger encounter in India that you wouldn't want to relive! Finally, Neil Laird, author and documentary producer, has a story to tell about a time when filming a TV series in the United States, when a non-nature-loving family had a close encounter with a bear. Links: Satyajit Das - author of Wild Quests - Journeys into Ecotourism and the Future for Animals - https://amzn.to/4eMWpP9  Suyash Keshari, Ameliya Safaris - https://ameliyasafaris.com/   Neil Laird - https://neillaird.com Neil’s Prime Time Travelers novels - https://amzn.to/48jqoNB  Join our Facebook group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://www.facebook.com/groups/thoughtfultravellers Join our LinkedIn group for Thoughtful Travellers - https://notaballerina.com/linkedin Sign up for the Thoughtful Travellers newsletter at Substack - https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com  Show notes: https://notaballerina.com/373 *Full disclosure: Amazon Services LLC Associates ProgramNotABallerina.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Support the show: https://thoughtfultravel.substack.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.