#AmWriting

Writing through chronic illness and other challenges, with Karen Lock KolpThis writing thing often feels hard. A common text among the three of us (Jess, Sarina and KJ) goes like this: OW OW OW OWOWOWOW. Our brains hurt. But for this week’s guest, Karen Lock Kolp, it’s more than that. Because of a rare tendon condition, Karen does all her writing and online work—and we do mean all—using her voice. That means that when it comes to both dictation and writing through big challenges, she’s a pro, and her advice in this episode was solid gold on both counts.Episode links and a transcript follow—but first, a preview of the #WritersTopFive that will be dropping into #AmWriting supporter inboxes on Monday, September 2, 2019: Top 5 Things to Remember When Writing is REALLY Hard. Not joined that club yet? You’ll want to get on that. Support the podcast you love AND get weekly #WriterTopFives with actionable advice you can use for just $7 a month. As always, this episode (and every episode) will appear for all subscribers in your usual podcast listening places, totally free as the #AmWriting Podcast has always been. This shownotes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend, and if you haven’t already, join our email list and be on top of it with the shownotes and a transcript every time there’s a new episode. To support the podcast and help it stay free, subscribe to our weekly #WritersTopFive email.LINKS FROM THE PODCASTThe Solopreneur Hour with Michael O'Neal Joanna Penn's The Creative PennKaren's Dictation Software Choices: Dragon Dictation, Chrome Browser, Dragon's Transcription Button.MouseGrid video on YouTube: How to Use the Dragon MouseGrid (as it turns out, it’s focused on navigating in Facebook with Dragon, but still a great video)It's a Long Way to the Top, AC/DC#AmReading (Watching, Listening)Karen: Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men, Caroline Criado PerezThe Purloined Paperweight, P.G. Wodehouse Grown-Up Anger: The Connected Mysteries of Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, and the Calumet Massacre of 1913, Daniel WolffKJ: The Bookish Life of Nina Hill, Abbi WaxmanJess: God Land: A Story of Faith, Loss, and Renewal in Middle America, Lyz Lenz (Hear Lyz on the podcast here.) #FaveIndieBookstoreJeff Kinney's An UnLikely Story in Plainville, MAKaren Lock Kolp is the author of Positive Discipline Ninja Tactics: Key Tools to Handle Every Temper Tantrum, Keep Your Cool, and Enjoy Life with Your Young Child and 10 Secrets Happy Parents Know: How to Stop the Chaos, Bring Out Your Child’s Good Behavior, and Truly Enjoy Family Time (Your Child Explained). Find out more at Karen's website: We Turned Out Okay. Listen to her podcast here. Her popular episode Positive Discipline Ninja Tactics is here. This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwritingfor details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s Inside-Outline template.Find more about Jess here, and about KJ here.If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship.Transcript (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)KJ:                                00:01                Howdy writers and listeners. August is basically over. September is here and this is the very last time I can invite you to join us in Bar Harbor, Maine for the Find Your Book, Find Your Mojo retreat from September 12th through 15th of 2019. It's a fantastic chance to get some one on one time for your project with me or Author Accelerator founder Jenny Nash, and then dig in with all your might in a gorgeous setting surrounded by your fellow #AmWriting word nerds, including Serena Bowen, who's going to talk about indie versus traditional publishing. There will be bonding, there will be writing, and knitting and artistic renderings of words of the year and all kinds of festivities and I for one can't wait. Find all the details@authoraccelerator.com/am writing.KJ:                                00:55                Go ahead. This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone and try to remember what I was supposed to be doing.Jess:                             00:59                All right, let's start over.KJ:                                01:01                Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers.Jess:                             01:04                Okay.KJ:                                01:04                Now one, two, three. Hey, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia.Jess:                             01:13                And I'm Jess Lahey.KJ:                                01:15                And this is #AmWriting with Jess and KJ. #AmWriting is our weekly podcast about all things writing, be they fiction, nonfiction, some bizarre intertwined creation, short stories, proposals, essays, long pieces, short pieces. And most of all, the one thing we always are is the podcast about getting the work done.Jess:                             01:46                And I'm Jess Lahey. I'm the author of the Gift of Failure and a forthcoming book about preventing substance abuse in kids. And you can find my work at the New York Times and the Washington Post and recently at Air Mail, which is a new venture by Graydon Carter of Vanity Fair. And that was kind of fun to write for someone new.KJ:                                02:06                I am KJ Dell'Antonia. I'm the author of How To Be a Happier Parent and the former lead editor and writer of the Motherlode blog at the New York Times where I am still a contributor. I'm having a freelancing break while I work on what will be my second novel and my first novel, The Chicken Sisters will be out next year.Jess:                             02:24                So exciting.KJ:                                02:26                That's who we are. That's why you should listen to us. Today, we have a guest that I think you are also going to want to listen to. I want to welcome Karen Lock Kolp. She is a child development expert and a parenting coach with a podcast, a thriving online community, and she is the independently published author of 10 Secrets Happy Parents Know. But we are not going to talk about anything parenty because what we are gonna talk about is getting all that work done because Karen is also a woman who lives with chronic illness. She has a tendon disorder that she'll describe to you later, but it has made her an expert in the use of her voice, both as a podcaster and in dictating her writing, which I know you're all going to want to hear about. And it's also made her an expert at keeping her butt in the chair sometimes whether she wants to or not, and getting her work done anyway, even when it's really, really hard. And that's why you're here. So thank you so much for joining us.Karen:                          03:28                Oh, thank you. It's really wonderful to be here. This is very exciting for me. Your podcast is one of my favorites. It is one of the few that survived my recent digital reset. Yours was one of the few that I brought back in because it's incredibly valuable.Jess:                             03:51                Oh, that's so nice. We survived a purge. That's so exciting.KJ:                                03:56                I purged lately too, although I partly purged just because I get so frustrated with the iTunes podcast app and switched and then once I switched I realized I hadn't brought everything with me and some of it I didn't miss.Jess:                             04:08                I had that moment where iTunes said, you seem to have not downloaded this in awhile. Do you still want to listen? And I thought about it and I said, well, no, actually I'm done.Karen:                          04:20                That's really cool. I did that.KJ:                                04:22                So Karen, so what I really want to talk about today is the specifics of writing with chronic illness, but also more on a general note, just the challenges of writing when it's hard. I think that we all have times when we feel like this is impossible and you have written through moments that I think most of us would define as actually impossible. So, start by telling us where you stand and how this started for you.Karen:                          04:56                Wow. It's, it's quite a story. So, actually first of all, I think I just want to say that I was well into writing my second book before I would dare to call myself a writer. So there's that as well. I was like, I'm a podcaster, I'm not a writer. You know what I mean?KJ:                                05:14                Yeah, no, we all have that. Yeah. I mean it's always, well, I wrote for the New York Times, but only online, you know Nobody, none of us thinks we're a real writer yet. Yeah, except maybe Salmon Rushdie, he thinks he's a real writer.Karen:                          05:34                Thinks he's a writer. Yeah, exactly. A real writer. I was midway through the second book and I was like, I said to somebody, Oh, I'm a writer. And I was like, wait a minute, I actually am a writer. I'm like, that's pretty cool. For me, it all started eight years ago, more than eight years ago now, I contracted a tendon disorder. And the way that I did it was I got a gastric disease called diverticulitis, which I would not wish on my worst enemy. And I took some (this is the nearest that my doctors and I can figure out) I took a really strong course of antibiotics to get rid of it. And they had a thing in them called fluoroquinolones. And since that started, since I went down this rabbit hole, it's been discovered that fluoroquinolones cause tendon problems largely in kids, but caused these problems anyway. And the rheumatologist told me, probably four or five years in that like I'm one of the lucky few who it stuck around for it. There's like a third of people who get this that they get it and get better right away. And then there's a third who sort of get it and it sticks around for a couple of years. And then I'm one of the ones who's, you know, it's gone on for a really long time.KJ:                                06:42                That's just annoying.Karen:                          06:45                I mean, isn't it?KJ:                                06:48                The truth is that in a single hand card game, odds don't matter and it’s either going to stay or it's not and if it stays those odds just make you mad.Karen:                          06:57                Yeah. And I, I, it took me a long time to get here, but I, I would say that what I've done is I've kind of gone through a real metamorphosis, you know, before I was a caterpillar and then this was my chrysalis and now I'm a butterfly. Like I truly understand the meaning of differently abled in a way I never, ever did before. For the first couple of years, the focus was really on my legs. I lost almost complete use of one leg in particular (my right leg) because of some of the tendons in it. And then there was a sort of very long rehab. But while I was going through that, I needed a wheelchair. Whenever I left the house it was a mess. And when that got better, then my thumb tendon started to go. And I'm still basically really still recovering from that. The legs are much better than the upper body. So all my writing is done online, and I do it with a speech recognition software. But, I want to even go further back than that, if it's okay.KJ:                                08:04                Yeah.Karen:                          08:05                Because I, the whole reason that I started to do anything is because I wanted, it sounds, it may sound silly, but I wanted to give a TED talk. I was, I remember watching TED talks and loving them and laughing at them. Like I couldn't move, I was stranded in a chair. And I remember thinking, you know what I could do, I could do a TED talk in a wheelchair. I want to do a TED talk. And so what, I, I haven't done one yet, I'm still hoping to, but this whole thing started because I was like, well, I want to do that. So my husband especially helped me try to figure out like, how could you do that, because at the same time as I wanted that I was also feeling incredibly useless and a total burden at home. We had two young kids and I couldn't be the house wife, and I couldn't be the cook. And I couldn't be the laundry and I couldn't be the chauffeur. So I really was feeling very down, like not quite suicidal, but if you got hit by a bus it wouldn't be a problem kind of thing. I had to learn first that there is value in me even if I can't use my hands or my legs. Once I learned that, my family was like, we need you, we need you to be the brains, which is how we define it around here. Then I could sort of look outwards from that. And that was when I really decided, I think I want to do a TED talk. And that has led to so much cool stuff. And even if it's not ever a TED talk, I'm so happy.KJ:                                09:33                Well, I mean, you know, it's kind of cool that it started from that, right? And, and it remains as a goal, but now you have, you know, you have so many other goals that you have achieved in the meantime.Karen:                          09:54                That's a very good thing to know. I mean, I, it's nice to have that validation, you know.KJ:                                10:01                Yeah.Karen:                          10:02                Thank you.KJ:                                10:02                I almost don't even know where to go from that, but so you've picked a topic and you took it from there. It's sort of hard to list all the things that you have, but you have this thriving online community, you have a coaching business, you have a lot going on now. What came first?Karen:                          10:28                So first came the podcast and that came about in a really interesting way too, because my husband wanted me to have an iPhone. So part of my problem, part of the hands per happened because I was doing too much texting on a phone that had those nine buttons, you know what I mean, where you'd have to like cycle through the number one to get to a and all those sorts of things. And that really blew up with the thumb tendons and my husband's like, okay, we're gonna get you an iPhone because it's playschool. You won't ever have to worry about like anything. You know, there's no, you don't have to choose between apps. Like it's just, it's there for you, there's no worries with an iPhone, which my family has since they've gotten Androids and there are times where they want to throw them out the window, you know what I mean? But I still have an iPhone because I need it. And that was when I really first discovered podcasts and one of my favorite podcasts was done by an entrepreneur who teaches other people how to start an online business. And I really wanted to start an online business.KJ:                                11:34                You need to name the podcast, by the way.Karen:                          11:37                Oh, that podcast is called The Solopreneur Hour podcast with Michael O'Neal. So I got into his podcast and I started trying to do something. I made a horrible, horrible website with my husband's help that I'm so glad it's gone, basically. Because I just needed to start and I knew I wanted to do something for parents of young children. I have a master's degree in early childhood education, I've got a bachelor's in human development and family relations, I've got nine years as a preschool teacher in an industry standard, state of the art, absolutely wonderful town-run preschool program. The town I grew up in actually. And I wanted to help parents cause I couldn't be in the classroom anymore, so maybe I could, you know, I could at least help them that way. So, I'm developing this pretty awful website and I'm doing it listening to Michael O'Neal's show. And I wrote to him at one point to basically say thank you because what he was doing was making me feel like I could do this, like this was attainable by me. And I explained my tendon condition and he read my letter on the air and he gifted me three months in his coaching program. I just want to take a moment to send up a silent thank you to him because I don't know what I would've done if I hadn't had him. But I mean, what, he's just a wonderful guy.KJ:                                13:08                Say a thank you to you because if you didn't reach out, do you know exactly when he would've come and knocked on your door if you hadn't written that letter? Never.Karen:                          13:17                Exactly.KJ:                                13:19                Yeah. You know, we often are like, yeah, I was really lucky because, but you made your luck.Karen:                          13:24                Yeah, that's very true. And I remember the feeling of like, this is really happening. Like, Oh my gosh. And his real jam, the thing he's really good at helping people figure out is what's your brand. And so we went through, as I said, he took one look at my goofy website that I had been working on and he was like, Oh, you know, this isn't going to fly. Yes, not this. Exactly. And then we spent, I would say probably a good part of those first three months coming up with the concept and the brand. And I, I will never forget the day after trying three or four, you know, names, when I said to him, you know, what I've been really thinking about and pushing around is the idea of a podcast called we turned out okay. And he was like, that's it. He goes, that's it. And then he goes, you know what your tagline is? It's the modern parent's guide to old school parenting. I was like, yes. And it was just so much fun. So the whole process was fun and like he made it fun and he made me feel like I could do this, you know? Whereas at home I was sort of getting a little bit of like, are you sure? Do you really want to take this on? This is a lot for somebody with, you know, with the conditions and the problems that you've got. And it was so motivating and such fun to be in that program, so I'm grateful to him. Very grateful.KJ:                                14:43                Well, and it's cool that it came about that he offered that to you, but this is also sort of a moment to recognize that getting some coaching can be super helpful. I think a lot of us are really reluctant to spend money on our dreams and, and also we have this feeling that if we were really capable, if we could really do it, we could do it on our own.Karen:                          15:08                Exactly.KJ:                                15:10                If I were a real writer, I wouldn't need an editor's help. If I were a real entrepreneur, I wouldn't need a coach to guide me through finding my brand. And that is, that's just, that's just not true. We all need to learn where we're going and getting in with an expert can can cut your time in half, it can inspire you, it can help you see exactly what you saw, which was that it might not look to people on the outside like you were ready to do this, but you wanted to prioritize it. I think that's cool, too.Karen:                          15:45                Yeah. So that's how I got started. That's a really long story for how I got started.KJ:                                15:51                Okay. We accept long stories. So at this point, you're podcasting and then you must at some point have sort of decided, well, I need some blog, I need some writing to go with this podcast. Let us know how you figured out how to do that, especially given that you were gonna need to dictate.Karen:                          16:15                So I think one of the, one of the things that a lot of people overlook I guess or don't want to hear maybe, is that you've got to start it before you know what it is. You have to start it before it's fully formed. And I started the podcast in 2014 or 2015, it's just over four years old. So 290 episodes in, in four years and counting. I got to maybe like 56 or 57 and I did an episode called Positive Discipline Ninja Tactics and people went nuts for it. Like I started to get emails from people and that got downloaded more than any other episode I'd ever done. People really responded to the idea that, wait a minute, there are these little Ninja tactics I can do to make my home life better? It's super easy, but things that I know as an early childhood professional that maybe, a parent who's not, wouldn't know, you know what I mean? So things like, how to make no sound like yes was one of those first Ninja Tactics. What I did from that was I decided to write a book called Positive Discipline Ninja Tactics. And I wanted to be able to talk about it in written form as well. You know, there's this idea you should have an email list. I've been taking a lot of time to try and figure out what my email list is going to be and I've gotten to 2019 and I figured it out and I love it. And people again are really responding to it. It's a weekly newsletter now, where I always get to vary it. But, I started it as, Hey, if you want to get notified when Positive Discipline Ninja Tactics is available, then I'll put you on this email list and you can find out and that really grew from there. For me it's been a lot of experimentation and exploring my burnout rate. So I used to do a six episodes in a month. And I realized that after the second year that that was not working for me. It was too much. I couldn't concentrate on my coaching clients if I was spending that much time on the podcast. Instead, I started doing these biweekly live members only calls for the people in my community. And, and if I did that twice a month instead of this extra podcast, I suddenly, I wasn't burned out anymore. I was focusing my energies in the right place because the people in the community could then say to me, here's my question about this. And I could go, Oh my God, people who listen to the podcast need to hear about that too. So I'm serving my clients first and then being able to bring these cool things to the listeners.KJ:                                19:08                Right.Karen:                          19:09                So, then I started listening to Joanna Penn, the Creative Penn podcast. And I started to sort of reframe myself as not just as a podcaster, but as an author as well. And what she does is so cool because she's all about like write books that are really professional and well written and fantastic at giving good advice and keep writing them. And I was like, you know what, that's something I could do. And so I've been working on that.KJ:                                19:43                So wait, wait. You're saying that's something I could do, but you don't type.Karen:                          19:50                No, I don't type, exactly.KJ:                                19:53                First of all, we want to know how you actually do it, but how did you get over that mental block of, you know, I'm going to write, but not with a pen, not with a keyboard, and not with a pencil.Jess:                             20:07                I'm especially waiting to hear about that because I have tried.KJ:                                20:11                We want the mental block first, then we want the tools.Jess:                             20:15                I just can't. I've tried so hard, so I'm dying to hear how you do all the dictation.Karen:                          20:20                Can I just say that it was not without many temper tantrums? I mean, I think this is necessity as the mother of invention. There was no way for me to do this without the speech recognition software. So I had to form a truce with the speech recognition software. So for me over these years now I've spent, I don't know if I've gotten my 10,000 hours in or not yet, but I would say probably. But the way that I got there was by doing it. So, I work much better if I can read something that is printed. So, my husband printed out the entire user manual for speech recognition software. So I was learning the commands - because there are these interesting commands that you can use. So you can tell it to click here, you can tell it to click save, you can bring up a mouse grid. I think if you guys are looking for the tool that has been a lifesaver for me. It's this idea of a mouse grid. So I want you to envision your computer screen and you say the words mouse grid. And what happens is a grid of nine blocks comes up on your screen. Say I want to click something in the lower left corner, that that happens to be the number seven. So I would say seven. And then the mouse grid would reappear, but the whole mouse grid is now where the number seven used to be. And so it's a little more focused now in that corner.KJ:                                21:57                And where do you get something like that?Karen:                          22:00                Where do you get the mouse grid?KJ:                                22:02                Yeah.Karen:                          22:02                Well, I use Dragon Speech Recognition software, so it's a component of that. But I'll tell you, I learned how to use that properly by watching the most beautiful and just heartbreaking video on YouTube. I mean you think you've got problems, right? And then you Google how to use the Dragon mouse grid and the person describing it to you is a person who not only has lost the use of his arms and legs, but also has speech difficulties and they are describing to you how to use this mouse grid and then they are using the mouse grid. By the time he gets to the small enough place in the grid in this video, I am crying. I mean my thought was if somebody like that can not only do that, but teach me how to do it, there is nothing that will stop me. Like what a good, incredibly good example of someone who's making it work no matter what, you know?KJ:                                22:56                Wow. All right, we're going to find that. We're going to link it.Karen:                          22:58                So, the mouse grid is a huge tool. I've discovered that Dragon plays very well with Chrome and not very well with Firefox, for example. So there have been times where I have felt like I was drowning and that I just couldn't get a breath. I wish I had a better description. Like, I will sit down and I'll be like, alright, I'm going to write a blog post and I use the speech recognition software to open Google Chrome and then I use it to navigate. to the inside of my website, not the outside pages everybody sees, but the sort of private admin pages and I get to the correct post.KJ:                                23:56                And you're doing all that using the Dragon Dictate?Karen:                          23:59                I am, yeah.KJ:                                24:00                So we think of Dragon Dictate as something that lets you dictate a story, but you can sort of basically set it up to run your whole...Karen:                          24:09                You can, yeah. You can use their voice commands for all of this. But what I've learned to be more patient with what used to kill me so bad was I would get three quarters of the way through that process and then I would open the dictation box, but sometimes Dragon can't see and doesn't know what you're trying to do. I don't know how else to describe it - it won't write anything. You'll say something and it will say, we can't recognize that speech or something and you're just like ugh. So I would get all the way to that point and then the app would crash or something like that. Talk about temper tantrums! But I just kept playing the song It's a Long Way to the Top by AC DC. I kept thinking to myself, there's no other way. Like it's either this or you go throw yourself in front of a train, like what's it gonna be here honey? And, I knew I wasn't going to do that, so I was gonna have to keep doing this basically. Does that make sense?KJ:                                25:15                Oh yeah, no, it totally, it totally makes sense. So now you're writing a book via Dragon Dictation and all of the challenges that that entails and then you're editing it the same way.Karen:                          25:33                I am. And, and I have learned - this was such a breakthrough for me. So, say if I'm going to write the title of a chapter and have Dragon sort of recognize it, I can now make a recording for my podcast, get my microphone out and my headphones and stuff like that. And I can say the following. So, here's the title of my book that dragon will recognize. OK. are you ready?KJ:                                26:04                Yeah.Karen:                          26:05                Cap educating cap. Happy cap kids, colon numeral nine cap ways to cap help cap your cap, child cap, learn cap to cap and joy cap learning, something like that. I can't remember it exactly, but I'm, that's the book I'm working on right now.KJ:                                26:19                So, you're fluent in, you're fluent in punctuation.Jess:                             26:24                There really is a whole other language.Karen:                          26:26                It's a whole other language. But what's neat is you can get into the flow of it in a recording sense. So like I can record 15 minutes of language that sounds like that. And, and I can, there's a transcribe button in Dragon and it will take that and put it on paper but legibly so that it can be read. It just says educating happy kids. Nine ways to help your child learn what they need to know. And it's like such a mirror every time this, every time I see this appearing, I'm just like, yay!KJ:                                26:59                I need to quickly hop in and apologize for only naming your most recent book cause I knew that you had more. But in the intro I, for whatever reason just threw out the first one. We will be listing them all.Karen:                          27:10                Oh, thank you. No worries. I mean, I appreciated that you listed any of them. I mean this is the one that I'm currently working on, so this is the one that my brain is like really thinking about. So I just today, today I sent it off to my editor for final revisions, so yay.Jess:                             27:31                It was funny when you said the thing about how if you want to do this thing badly enough, you can figure it out. But when we were interviewing Shane recently about the fact that he uses his two thumbs to type entire books on his iPhone and Oh my gosh, you know, KJ and I used to have a segment in the show called Ow It Hurts, but it was always like it hurts. Like, Oh, I don't really want to write this, but not like I have to write an entire book with my two thumbs. If Shane Burcaw can write three books with his thumbs, I think I can figure out the intricacies of how to use dictation software.Karen:                          28:17                If you want to, if it's a real goal of yours. I think a lot of times that I would not be a podcaster or an author without the tendon disorder. Like I was, I was too invested in my own life. I guess. I remember sort of having this yearning, like I remember being 38 about a decade ago and just saying to my husband, like, you know what, isn't there anything else? I mean, I love you and I love the kids, but isn't there anything else? I think had I not gotten the tendon disorder and, and had all of that other stuff kind of stripped away from me, I'm not sure that I would've had the guts even to try something different. Even now I will walk into a Christmas tree shops and I get tired, so I often need to find a seat so you'll find me sitting on the bird seed. This happened just recently. I was in line of Joann Fabrics and the line was so long that I literally sat down on the floor and crossed my legs and apologized to everybody around me and said, this is just what I have to do. I mean, once you've been through things like that, those are really socially embarrassing situations and it's like, well, I can do anything if I can do this.Jess:                             29:36                I just am fascinated. I've never, I'm fascinated. My brain is stuck on the line that I wouldn't be a writer without my tendon disorder. I think, you know, the thing, the very thing that makes that more difficult for you is the thing that made it happen. And I find that really wonderful and fascinating and complicated.Karen:                          29:54                Yeah. Thank you for recognizing it. When I think metamorphosis, that's really what I think of. And I came to our conversation today with a couple of points that I wanted to make sure to cover. If anyone is trying to work in difficult circumstances that, that I thought they might want to know, this is what's worked for me and the first one is to just own it, to say to yourself, this is what I want to do. Like it can be so easy for us to get caught up in I've got to get dinner on the table and I've got all these duties that we have in our day and there can be some guilt around backing away from work or family and saying, I'm taking this time to do this thing that I really want to do. And for me that had to come first.KJ:                                30:44                Yeah. I mean, if, if you are in a situation where you have limited resources, be there physical or mental to put them into this thing that at that moment is only for you is really hard. You know, it's very easy to say to yourself, well, you know, if I'm going to have like an hour of, of like sort of on time today because I'm suffering from exhaustion or because I get physically tired, I should put that into my kids' school meeting or dinner or you know, something. So I think that's really important.Karen:                          31:21                Yeah. That's what's worked for me. I remember lying in bed one morning just before I wrote to Michael O'Neal, just before I started to like come up with this website. And I remember lying in bed one day and every day I had been thinking, you got to get busy living or get busy dying, which is from a movie, it might be from the Shawshank Redemption. I literally would lie in bed going, are you going to get up now cause you got to get busy living or get busy dying. And on this particular day I sat up in bed and I said out loud, I am doing this and I'm not even sure that I knew what this was yet. But like it was this idea of I am breaking free of the sort of constraints. Whether they are because I feel guilty that I can't do very much or because like my time really ought to be spent on this other thing. And I was basically like, I got no hands. So like I'm going to do this, whatever it is.KJ:                                32:21                I was just going to say, okay fine. If you can get your mental head around it. And it also sounded like you had had partner support, which is great, but sometimes we have to go on without it.Karen:                          32:34                Yup. Yup. Yup. It was huge. So Ben used to say to me, he's actually the producer of my show. And what's funny is he has a day job, he goes off to work every day and that doesn't have anything to do with audio. But he went to school for sound engineering and his friends from college are people who work on the Today Show or who have won Grammy's and stuff like that. And he basically decided that his life was going to take a different path, but we used to joke, we'd pass a radio station in the car and I'd be like, Hey, let's move here and I'll be the talent and you can be the producer. And like that's kind of what's happened, which is so interesting. So he gets to feed his audio soul a little bit. He gets to geek out over, you know, making the show sound great and like all the cool, you know, little audio things that he couldn't do before. So support is really important. But I will say this, too. Ben is the one who, he was like, he used to say like, we need to get you with your friends because you're so much happier when you're like with people. He would say, I've seen you come alive today. We went to a party or something and cause it's just so hard to be sitting alone and you know, only feeling like you can't do stuff. So, when I said to him, I think I'd like to try starting a a business, he was like, yes, please. I'm glad because you need something to do with your mind. So he was always very, very supportive from the beginning. I didn't think to put that on the list, but I think that's probably pretty important.KJ:                                34:05                Well, it's, it's hard to be the partner because you can think to yourself, you know, if I were in that position, I would do such and such. Well, and first of all, you don't know what you would do, but secondly, you can't actually do it. So, you know, you can look at your partner and see, well I, she really needs to get out there and, and do stuff with her friends. But it's not like he can pack you into the car.Karen:                          34:25                Yeah, exactly.KJ:                                34:28                To be them too. All right, well what comes next?Karen:                          34:29                Alright. So next for me was the idea of just starting small, like small habits have won the day for me. When I first started, and even sometimes now, I have a version of your open the document, you know what I mean? And I always felt like, so if you've got 5% use of your hands, what can you dedicate that 5% to? And sometimes it was twirling spaghetti and that was all I had, you know. But if I've got 15 minutes, if I can take the next 15 minutes and dedicated to writing something like, and then I don't do anything else for the rest of the day, that's fine. I put one foot in front of the other today. I took one step. So really small habits that you do repeatedly. The next thing I think, cause you can say to yourself like, it's too big. I can't, I just can't. But, but if you try to break it down to like the smallest step, the step, the step that you feel like, okay, I can do that, I will do that. And then you're done for the day and you come back to it the next day. So small habits are fun and good. The next one that comes up for me is celebrate the wins. Even the tiny ones like - so actually, I've been writing a fictional book one minute at a time, which I know sounds crazy, but it worked for Neil Gaiman so I feel like it's gonna work for me.KJ:                                35:57                It's really the only way to do it. It's just a question of whether they're consecutive minutes or not.Karen:                          36:02                Yes, exactly. I just don't have the time to commit to even 15 minutes a day of fiction writing, but I can open a notebook and it's actually, it's hand strengthening practice too is how I look at it. I can open a notebook and I can write a sentence. And what I've been taken to is I'll write a full sentence and then I'll make the next sentence be like the beginning of the next sentence. So the next day when I come back, I've got a writing prompt basically. And I have found that it's enough to keep this story alive for me. Like, so I had the idea for the novel and I did a lot of work around who's who, what's the main character dealing with? I have a dear friend who lives in Maine and the property next to her dream property has been taken over by a jerky landlord who insists on bringing like people from away who shoot off guns and bring bands in and they're raising a family. And so I'm writing this to give her some hope, basically. I've been having a ball with it, one minute at a time. So that's one of my one minute, like that's one of my tiny habits. I can't do more than that. So that's what I do. And when I do it, I celebrate that win, like I did this today. Yes.KJ:                                37:20                Yes. All right. Keep going. Do you have time to?Karen:                          37:25                I got two more, two more. I think my most important resource is energy. When my energy level is gone, it is gone and I have to go to sleep for eight hours to get it back. So, I tend to work in projects and the way I think of it is like I'll do so quarterly, I'll look at this each quarter anew and my project for the first month of the quarter is recording the podcast episodes and getting those show notes done so that for the whole quarter. So now I've got two other months that I can keep writing or I can do other cool stuff. This August we're gonna have a staycation. So I get to do that because I planned in July for August. So I'll get that project completed and then work on the next project. So, for this quarter it's been educating happy kids has been really my next project. That and rest.KJ:                                38:24                That's your next book, right?Karen:                          38:25                Yup. That's my next book. I have found that is a really great way to manage my energy level because I can see progress as I'm working through a bigger project. For me that really, really works. It may not work for everyone. Some people might like to sort of get a little bit of something done every day repeatedly, but I like to be able to say, okay, that project is finished and now I can move on to the next one. So I've been doing that. And then the last one, and this is probably the most important one, is the idea of trying again tomorrow. So like if today is a blowout, if you cannot do it, if, if everything has gone wrong today, you still have the choice to get up and try again tomorrow.KJ:                                39:11                Cool. Yeah, no, that's, that's great. I love it.Jess:                             39:14                We've also observed in the past, this happens to me with writing and it happens to me with teaching that some of my very worst teaching and writing days have been followed by some of my best. So that's a good reminder for me that no matter how crappy things go on one day it can turn around completely the next.Karen:                          39:33                Yup. Yup. And as I think as a part of all of this, there's this idea of support.Speaker 3:                    39:39                Like we talked about that a little bit with my husband, right? But you guys are such a support for me. The #AmWriting Facebook group is one of the only places I go on Facebook. I go there and I go into the group of We Turned Out Okay listeners that I have developed over there,KJ:                                39:55                It is the only place I go.Jess:                             39:57                It's literally true. KJ and I, what we did was we made it so that the group is our bookmark for Facebook. So if you're going to go on Facebook, you have to go there.Karen:                          40:07                No way.Jess:                             40:08                Yeah.KJ:                                40:09                You can, that you could have two bookmarks, one for our group and one for your group and then you never have to risk being caught up in something that you didn't want to experience.Karen:                          40:21                Oh, I'm going to Facebook and figure out how to do that.New Speaker:               40:23                I think it's going to be particularly valuable as we head into the next couple of years.Jess:                             40:28                Yes, I think so too.Karen:                          40:30                Yup. Yup. Wow.KJ:                                40:31                Can we talk about what we've been reading?Karen:                          40:32                Yes.Jess:                             40:34                But before we even go there, I have to say, the amount of helpful information so far has been - I've been writing stuff down on my end it's been great. So anyway, yes,KJ:                                40:45                I've written down tons and we're going to come up with some ways for listeners to get at this. I'm vague potting but more to come, more info to come probably like in the afterward or the prologue or something.Karen:                          41:06                One last thing I want to say before we get to the books. Jess, I don't know if you will remember this, but I was referencing how I use that one minute to strengthen my hands and I got to meet you.Speaker 3:                    41:23                This was several years ago now.Jess:                             41:24                I remember, I totally remember.Karen:                          41:25                I totally remember that cause I brought my book, I brought my book of quotes and I asked you to sign that.Jess:                             41:33                I have a picture of your book of quotes. It was really, really cool and explain what you mean by book of quotes.Karen:                          41:41                So I started taking either pictures from magazines or newspapers or images or whatever that I really liked, that really resonated with me, that made me feel positive and happy. And I started putting them into a notebook. And then I also started putting favorite quotes from books, things that I knew I was going to want to revisit. And what's cool about that is now I have like several years worth of those and I can go back and I can be like, Oh my God, yeah, I need to remember that. And there were like five quotes from the Gift of Failure in there when I brought the book to you. And it was so much fun. Your reaction just made it so exciting.Jess:                             42:19                It's super trippy and amazing and you inspired me to do the same thing. So now in my notebook, I'm constantly writing, but your notebook was really, really pretty and I took pictures of it because the way you put together these quotes that move you and inspire you was so beautifully done. So it meant so much to me. And of course I remember.Karen:                          42:37                Yeah. Oh good. I'm really, really glad. That was, wow, that was really, really fun.Jess:                             42:42                So what have you been reading?Karen:                          42:44                Oh my gosh. I've been reading. The one I'm going to start with is the one I want to most talk about. So if I run out of time, I gotta get this one in there. It's called Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed By Men Caroline Criado Perez, which the spellings are all going to be right in the show notes, I'm sure. It is a book about how the world is designed for men and how that can actually be life threatening for women. And it's so interesting because at first you're like, really? I mean really, and then you start reading and my mind has been blown. Just one example is in, I believe it's in Finland. I actually haven't gotten to this yet. My husband recommended this book cause he heard about it on a podcast. And there's a chapter about, I believe it's Finland where snow plowing, like snow street clearing is threatening women's lives because of the way the streets are cleared because of the methodology behind what streets are cleared when and it has to do with the fact that men basically go to work and come home and women do all their errands so they're slipping and sliding all over the side roads. Um, absolutely fascinating. And I like just the foreward of this book, I kept having to stop and be like, Oh my God, can you believe this? Like, and I'm raising two teenage sons. And so what's really fun about this is just engaging with them on this stuff. And they're like, Whoa. Like I never thought of it that way, you know, or whatever. It's been really, really cool. So Invisible Women, please, please read it. It's great.Jess:                             44:20                That sounds really interesting and I hadn't heard of it.Karen:                          44:22                And the cover is the little the bathroom symbol for males in black. Really, really clear and vivid. And then in sort of like this silvery whitish color, the same color as the cover itself is like, is the female symbol. So you can't even see them if you're looking at it in the wrong light. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm sneaking them in. I also am reading The Purloined Paperweight by P.G. Wodehouse, that's my bedtime reading. I need something really light before bed. And P.G. Wodehouse just fulfills that. So that's so good.Jess:                             45:08                KJ is such a huge fan. You totally went straight to her heart.KJ:                                45:13                There's another author written out there has written something like P.G. Wodehouse....Karen:                          45:19                You shouted about it a few weeks ago and I was like, Oh, I need that book. And I read it. It's called Jeeves and the King of clubs. Yep. That was such a great, yep. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it very much. Okay. Last one. Grown Up Anger, which is a book by Daniel Wolff, an author I've had on my show for another book that he wrote. This is a book that takes Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie and a massacre that happened in 1913 in the upper peninsula of Michigan and connects them in this really interesting musical line, which just blew my mind. So I had to talk about that one. It's just so good.KJ:                                46:00                It sounds like it might be up Jess's alley.Jess:                             46:03                Yeah, that sounds really interesting. KJ, what have you been reading?KJ:                                46:06                I just read a really fun, summer read called The Bookish Life of Nina Hill by Abbi Waxman. You know, she might, she might turn up around here at some point.Jess:                             46:21                She might indeed.New Speaker:               46:22                Anyway, I had such a good time with it. I am a sucker, as many of us are for any book with the word book, library, books, etcetera in the title. I actually think authors have recognized that a little too hard, so you have to be careful about picking those books. Always download the sample if you're reading them on digitally, otherwise, you know, pick them up and touch them. Anyway, The Bookish Life of Nina Hill was really, really funny. Book story, Silicon Valley, oddly enough, California and all the sort of juicy bits of things that you don't know about, like trivia contests and lives you'll never lead. Lots of fun.Karen:                          47:05                Cool. That sounds like a good one.Jess:                             47:07                Our selections are really diverse this week. I'm reading one of our former guests book. It's finally out. Lyz Lenz's book God Land. It is fantastic. It's part memoir. It's part of a reflection on faith. It's not really, not much of it is memoir, but it's really a story of faith, loss, and renewal in middle America and has a gorgeous cover. It was shorter than I expected and she's done a really great job with the pacing. I'm really impressed with the book. So yay. Congratulations, Lyz. You did a beautiful job and if you recall, she had two books due in the same year. So this is one of two books that she wrote the same year, both research based books. Anyway, props to Liz. Good job Liz. Well we ran super long, but this is such a jam packed with lots of helpful bits to it. So I am thrilled and thank you so, so much for being with us. And if people would like to find you, where can they find you?Karen:                          48:14                They can go to, weturnedoutokay.com and you can spell it either. Okay or Ok.Jess:                             48:20                Excellent. I also completely forgot about our bookstore shout out. Do you have one?Karen:                          48:27                Yes. Oh, I was going to give a super quick shout out to the bookstore that is owned by Jeff Kinney. The author of Diary of a Wimpy Kid is 20 minutes away from me. It's called An Unlikely Story and it's in Plainville, Massachusetts. And it is such a blast. It's like such a fun place where there's so much more than books and the books are awesome too.Jess:                             48:48                I know of a couple of people who have read or done events there and have just loved it. So I'm going to have to do a pilgrimage there at some point.Karen:                          48:54                Yes. Yes, please do. Let me know when you do. Cause I will, I'll try to meet you.Jess:                             48:58                Oh, absolutely. Alright. I think we're, I think we're good. This has been a fantastic episode. So until next week, everyone keep your button, the chair and your head in the game. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Medicine, literature, academic writing, submitting to literary journals: we wander all over the map with guest Danielle Ofri. Funny thing—writers for popular pubs tend to see literary magazines as an unsurmountable challenge (I know I do) and vice versa. Danielle Ofri, though, straddles both worlds as the Editor-in-Chief of the Bellevue Literary Review and a regular contributor to the New York Times and Slate as well as journals like The Lancet and The New England Journal of Medicine, making her the perfect person to talk to about that crossover, as well as the crossover between a career with confidentiality at its core, and one where telling the whole truth is key. Episode links and a transcript follow—but first, a preview of the weekly Top 5 for Writers that will be dropping into #AmWriting paid subscriber inboxes on Monday, August 26, 2019: Top 5 Questions for Your Novel's Main Character. Not joined that club yet? You’ll want to get on that!Got a friend who needs more #AmWriting? As always, this episode (and every episode) will appear for all subscribers in your usual podcast listening places, totally free as the #AmWriting Podcast has always been. Find us on iTunes, Stitcher, Outcast, Spotify and everywhere else. This show notes email is free, too, so please—forward it to a friend.To support the podcast and help it stay free, subscribe to our weekly Top 5 email.LINKS FROM THE PODCAST#AmReading (Watching, Listening)Danielle: Ragtime E.L. Doctorow and Little King, Salmon Rushdie's short story excerpt in the New Yorker from his book, Quichotte.KJ: Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World, Cal Newport#FaveIndieBookstoreThe Strand again! We don't mind repeating a good one.Our guest for this episode is Danielle Ofri, the author of What Patients Say, What Doctors Hear; Singular Intimacies ; Incidental Findings;  Medicine in Translation; Intensive Care; What Doctors Feel;Best of the Bellevue Literary Reviewand the forthcoming When We Do Harm, a Doctor Confronts Medical Error.She is also the Editor-in-Chief of the Bellevue Literary Review, a journal that explores issues of health and humanity. fiction and non-fiction and poetry. Find their submission guidelines here. Find out more about at Danielle at DanielleOfri.com, and Listen to her TEDMed Talk: Deconstructing Perfection, here. You can listen to her TEDMed talk Fear: A Necessary Emotion here.This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwritingfor details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s Inside-Outline template.Find more about Jess here, and about KJ here.If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship.TRANSCRIPT (We use an AI service for transcription, and while we do clean it up a bit, some errors are the price of admission here. We hope it’s still helpful.)       KJ:                                I'm KJ Dell'Antonia Jess: and I'm Jess Lahey. KJ: And this is #AmWriting Jess: with Jess and KJ. KJ: #AmWriting is the every week the podcast about writing all the things that you might be writing, fiction, nonfiction, short pieces, long pieces, essays, pitches, humor, proposals. And most of all, this is the podcast about sitting down and getting the work done.Jess:                             01:52                I'm Jess Lahey and I'm the author of the Gift of Failure and a forthcoming book on preventing childhood substance abuse. And I had to think about it for a second. What am I writing? And you can find my work. Let's see. Pretty soon in air mail, but I generally am in the New York Times, Washington Post, places like that.KJ:                                02:11                It must be August. I am KJ Dell'Antonia. I am the author of How To Be a Happier Parent. I'm the former editor of the Motherlode blog at the New York Times where I still contribute occasionally. I'm also the author of a novel that will be coming out next year and you can find my work most often at the New York Times. But just incidentally, just by the way, pretty soon you'll also be able to find a little something by me and Wendy Aarons at the New Yorker.Jess:                             02:42                I mean I did not know if you were going to announce this today, but I am like burst rocketing bursting. This is a bucket list thing. This is huge and big bucket. Oh yeah. We'll be talking about that more because there's, it's cool and there's a lot to talk about there, but we have a guest, our guest today I'm so excited to talk about because my husband came home from work and he said, Oh my gosh, there's this woman you must talk to. I heard her speak. She's incredible. Her name is Danielle Ofri. She is a physician. She's at Bellevue hospital and is a writer of lots of different things. She writes for sort of traditional publishing about she has a forthcoming book on medical error.Jess:                             03:31                She has a book that I have been enjoying very much called What Patients Say, What Doctors Hear. And she also writes for the New York Times and Slate and a bunch of other places. But she's the co-founder and editor and chief of the Bellevue Literary Review, which coincidentally was the present you gave Tim last year, KJ. You gave Tim a subscription to the Bellevue Literary Review just last year, which was so cool. And this sound really fancy, but the truth is that I wrote for Danielle at the Bellevue, right. And they gave me a couple of subscriptions. All right, well I passed one on to Tim as someone I thought would deeply enjoy it. And that was, that's how that came about. So, so often we have guests who have at some point been edited by me. I have been edited by Danielle, a little little flip around. It's so cool. And actually speaking of bucket list, check this out. Her essays had been selected by Stephen Jay Gould, Oliver Sacks, Susan Orlean for best American essays, twice, best American science writing. And she, yeah, she got, she's just all over the place with all these buckets, things that we would be honored to have on our resume and our CV. So Danielle, welcome to the show and thank you so much for joining us today.Danielle:                       04:49                Thank you guys. It's really fun to be here.Jess:                             04:52                We get so many questions about academic writing and obviously at some point we want to spend some time talking about that. But really what I'd love to do is start with you and how you got started as a writer. Did the doctor part come first or did the writing part come first?Danielle:                       05:09                Well, I, you know, as a little kid, I love to write books, but that got pushed by the wayside and I was a doctor first. I did a sort of a long route. I did an MD PhD program or did research that I ended up in a lab did a residency at Bellevue fell in love with internal medicine, but I trained in the 90s during the height of the AIDS epidemic. And if you remember that time, it was a fairly brutal time, a lot of death and destruction and very exhausting. And so when I finished my decade of training there, I took a year and a half off and I just needed to get away. So I, and I must say my, all my supervisors said, that's a terrible idea. You'll forget all your medicine. You'll never get back into academic medicine. You'll lose all your connections. But someone else said, you know, I think they might be jealous. You know what, maybe so. So, off I took to just support myself. I worked for, for eight weeks in various clinics around the country. There's a whole system for temporary doctors to fill in. And I did that. And then I would go to South America, traveled to the money, ran out, and then call, collect from Wahaca, say, what do you got next? And then ended up in New Hampshire. And so during that year and a half when I learned nothing to do in these small towns, I began to write down the stories of my medical training with no intention to, you know, write a book. I just needed to write them down because at the time I remember thinking this is singular. I will never be so up-close to such a monumental moment. I think every month I should be writing this down. But of course who has time then you're so busy. You know, a patient would die in the bed or be filled in five minutes. But I think it was also too close to the emotional bone at the time. So I needed to really be physically away and I wrote them down, not as a way to process them or do therapy, but I just needed to give them their due cause they had to go somewhere. And so I spent a year and a half writing. I eventually came back to Bellevue, which is where I always wanted to be. At the time there was an economic crisis and a hiring freeze. And when a spot finally opened up, there was only a part time position available, 60% time, which I'd never imagined. But you know, I had student loans so I took it. And so one of my days off I picked up a writing book off the street and one of those yellow you know, Gotham writer's workshop boxes on second Avenue degrading class. And that is how it started. And so I began working on these stories with different writing teachers and sending them out to a little, you know, literary journals was some, you know, subscriber base was smaller than my medical school class were ashore. And then eventually one running, he just said, you know she, she missed her subway. Stop reading a story to that, that needs time to get an agent. So I got an agent pulled together my first collection of essays called singular intimacies becoming a doctor a, Bellevue, which all my friends thought was about French lingerie, but it was about these relationships that doctors and patients have and that's kind of how the writing began.Jess:                             08:02                Well, so let me stop you for a second. So these are the nitty gritty is this is really what our listeners adore. So how did you go about getting your agent?Danielle:                       08:11                So I looked in a book on how to find an agent and they said, look at other books that like yours. So I went to the acknowledgement section. I also got a book on agents I think was by Jeff Herman maybe, and we'll do their personal interests and those interested in medicine. I send out sample chapters and I finally got an agent, although I will say I did not close my book, deal with the agent. My agent sent my collection out and I got turned down by 13 of New York city's finest publishing houses. And then one day I had a piece of peer, I think in Tikun magazine and the director of Beacon Press called me and said I read your piece. And do you have any interest in writing a book. I say, Oh, do you have one? Have I got, have a book right here. And I confess, I committed my one act of theft and I borrowed, I'll say in quotes, eight prepaid, FedEx labels from my chairman's office because I didn't have time to get the FedEx. I'm working all the time and sent my manuscript to Beacon Press, which they took. And so I get rid of my agent and I've published, now we'll going on my sixth book with Beacon Press without an agent.Jess:                             09:16                Okay. So that, that's really interesting. So how did that go down with your agent? I've never heard of that specific situation where an agent has submitted everywhere and had no success and then you go ahead without your agent. So did you just mutually part ways with your agent at that point?Danielle:                       09:32                I told her, you know, I have been approached and through that she hadn't gotten it sold. And so it, you know, it was a little awkward, but I think she understood and we, you know, parted amicably and I've had agents approached me since then saying, well, and I say, I don't really need an agent because I have a publisher. Oh, but we can negotiate you a better deal. But I don't want that. I really, Beacon Press is an incredible press to work with it and it fits in that little niche. It's not a big house, but it's not a small indie houses having a medium size press and that feels like kind of three bears just right. So I'm fortunate that my, my editor is the director, so I feel like I have the ear of the director as well as my editor. And in my five books, I've have no turnover of my editor, the publicity person or the marketing person.Jess:                             10:20                Oh wow. That is so unusual.Danielle:                       10:23                I know, because I'll tell you, we plan first book, we sold the paperback rights to one of the big houses, which I was really excited about. And every six months I did a letter saying, hi, my name is Jane, I'm your editor. Hi, my name is Joe, I'm an editor and I had no idea every six months it was a new person. And so the difference is so palpable and every book, my husband's, Oh, you should really try for a bigger publishing house. And I don't think I want to because I, I've had friends with, with very mixed experiences. You know, you have one big as great and you're the prince for the, you know, six months, then your next book fails. And yet no one answers your calls.Danielle:                       10:57                And I have no trouble with that. My team always answers my calls. We talk on the phone for an hour. I really feel like they're interested in my career. And I remember what my editor said on the first day before I signed it. She said, we never let our books go out of print. So we only publish books that we want to keep on even in small print runs. And this was sort of pre, you know, E readers, what really mattered. And that kind of commitment meant a lot to me. And I'd much rather have a smaller print run, you know, smaller finances that if the exchanges that you know, stays in print and treated respectfully because I'll tell you that big house, let my book go out of print the paper back and never told me. And so I had the humiliating experience of going into a, an appearance. He said, we want to get you a book, which book? I told a bunch book and they said, Oh, we called the publisher, it's not in print. And boy with that, that was awful.Jess:                             11:50                That would be a really embarrassing...Danielle:                       11:51                Beacon Press took the rights back and we publish their own paper back. But that was the case. They didn't even give me the courtesy of letting me know they're dropping it. So that's a difference I think between working with a medium sized press versus a big house and listen to the big houses are wonderful and they lots of great stuff. But for me I couldn't, I think stomach is ups and downs that a big house offers.KJ:                                12:12                So I want to come back to the question of how your professional colleagues received the idea of you as a nonacademic writer, because that feels in so many settings, and medicine is definitely one of them. It feels like that could be very fraud.Danielle:                       12:32                Well, I would say my immediate colleagues who are largely clinical and their academic in that they're all teaching, but most aren't doing research and research papers.KJ:                                12:41                Right. And I also want to note that this sort of predates the era of, you know, doctors write for the New Yorker and that makes, you know, and that's what they do and we love them. This was, you know, you were one of the early ones.Danielle:                       12:55                Yeah. So I would say my clinical colleagues actually find a lot of recognition in the writing and largely, you know are supportive because they see their own experiences reflected, which often don't get airtime any place else. I mean, academically I see where that plays a role is, you know, do I get promotion based on that? And that's definitely been a little bit fraud, your tenure, that kind of thing. Because that kind of running doesn't really count.KJ:                                13:21                No. Cause people read it. I mean, why would that, yeah. Right.Danielle:                       13:28                And it doesn't bring in grants and grant money. And so although lip service is paid to, you know, international recognition, yada, yada, yada. If it's not bringing in grant money and it's not the traditional publishing. No, I've published a lot in academic journals, but essays, so New England Journal of Medicine and the Lancet, all these big medical journals, but in their sort of essay perspectives in fact, the first time the New England Journal ever did it perspective, they refuse to do that sort of, you know, namby pamby you know, type of writing for the longest time. I was actually the first one they published, so it really took quite a risk with them. And so for the readership who would never seen that in those pages, that was a completely new piece I type of writing. And now that section is probably their most popular section. So I think it's been received well clinically, academically, probably not gonna get me tenure or promoted, but that's okay.Jess:                             14:22                One of the things I would love to know is where, how the Bellevue Literary Review got started and how you got involved in that, how you decided to start that and how it came about.Danielle:                       14:32                Well after I got back from my, you know, year and a half of traveling and started to write when I started back in the clinic, I really wanted to bring some of that writing in. Now what we do is as academics as, as teachers is we the students, medical students hand in their writeups about the patients, the history and physical. It's very, very jargony. And you know, once you've read 10 or 20 or 50 or a hundred, they all kind of start to sound the same. So I find, send them, listen guys, you're killing me from one of your write-ups in this semester. Just tell me the patient's story. Ask the patient, what's it like that emphysema, what was it like when the doctor first told you that diabetes? And I started getting these really fascinating essays that people would turn in. Really interesting and they were sort of stacking up on a file cabinet at the same time we did a new chair of medicine come in Marty blazer and he was having the students on the hospital awards write a 1000 word essay on anything. Philosophy, pathophysiology, economics along as inspired by patient, just kind of heretical for medical students writing an essay. Oh my goodness. You know, he started having his little stack of essays and the student colleagues that you guys ought to meet. He just come on. I just started working there. So we met and we had a respect of stack of essays and we thought, you know, we should make a journal. We thought about, you know, an in-house mimeograph student journal. But as we talked more, it became apparent that issues of medicine and health are really universal. And then you listen, you can get by in life and never need a plumber or an accountant or a lawyer if you're lucky, but you're never going to get by without interfacing with the medical system. And even if you are perfectly healthy, you care for a child, an elderly parent, you have a job visible, you will never get by without it. And I think that that also in genders a real existential fear in people that their body or their mind might betray them, you know? And they can't control that. And when you're in the medical system, you are, you're powerless. Many times you don't know often what's going on. You can't speak the language, you're freezing cold in a gown, you don't know what's going to cost and you're in pain or worried about your family members. So it's very hard to sort of hold onto yourself. And so we thought maybe it makes sense to have a journal that allows you to creative way to address this because you know, the top 10 tips or that bending osteoporosis doesn't really, I think address that kind of things. So we put out a two line call for submissions for poetry fiction, nonfiction on health and healing. And we've got a thousand submissions right off the bat.Jess:                             17:02                Wow.Danielle:                       17:03                We knew we tapped a nerve and they were not from medical people, from ordinary writers and now we get 4,000 submissions a year, all walks of life all over the world. And as our publisher likes to say, it's hard to be published in the BLR now than in the New England Journal of Medicine because we only can print, you know, a few of them. So I think there really isn't. And I think creativity and vulnerability really overlap and that great Venn diagram of how we write. And so it's not surprising that brushes with mortality and death and fear and worry help ignite some kind of passion, creativity and that comes out and poetry and fiction and creative nonfiction.Jess:                             17:40                I have a question that's actually related to what KJ used to do, which is you're dealing with these really grave, you know, many moments of mortality, these moments that are huge events in people's lives. And when you write about them, it can become incredibly precious to you. It can become so important to you that when, when/if you get rejected, it's not just a blow to your writing, it's a blow to like this experience you had in your life. And KJ used to get, you know, submissions about, you know, the death of a child or you know, these incredibly moving experiences. But for some reason or another, they're just not a great fit. How do you balance, you know, how do you go about communicating with your writers about the importance of an event and the way you write about it and creating sort of pieces that are not just people's therapy but that are really great works of writing.Danielle:                       18:41                It's a very interesting thing in particular that comes up in the realm of nonfiction because people are ready about their real experience and it is painful to reject a piece about their mother's Alzheimer's disease. And you know, when I, when I talk about this on panels, there's a difference between a moving experience and a moving piece of writing. They're not the same thing. And also it has to be more than just the particularities of here. I went to the doctor. This is what happened. It has to be transcendent. It has to rise above what actually happened to something that can connect to others. And so I do suggest that people, you know, read other things we've published or other, you know people who have written about enlist in a way that brings it beyond just the nuts and bolts of what happened. I also stressed that using the techniques of fiction is very helpful in terms of, not in terms of making things up because nonfiction is truth. But in terms of developing character and voice and setting and in drama and and pacing, you know, so often in nonfiction people are very, they applaud right along the way things go, but they don't have to be that way. It's still truthful if we cut back and forth in time and we have flash powers and flashbacks and we stretch moments and compressed moments because that's makes for more dramatic writing. In the actual rejections, I tried to be very gentle and we try when we can to offer feedback. Of course at that volume we can for everyone. So if you do get a fun letter, please forgive us. We're all volunteers, but we do try, we do have some that we think could be helpful. We'll include that in the rejection letter.Jess:                             20:11                That's incredibly generous of you given the volume, but also as you well know, incredibly helpful for a writer. I mean we, we cling to these pieces of, you know, even if it's just a one line piece of you know, this is promising, but you might want to whatever, those are pieces of that's feedback that we hold onto with great hope.Danielle:                       20:34                Yeah,I stress that a lot of it's subjective. And I have my own story. I had a piece that was ended up in the Missouri Review and went on to being the best American essays. Which was a huge honor. And so I got a letter from a professor of English in the Midwest and he's complimented in essence that he uses it in his teaching. And I was very honored and I look at the bottom of his email and his, you know, so-and-so pH D department, English editor of their, you know, literary journal. So I went back to my nice, huge rejection folders. I kept every rejection and in fact I submitted the very same piece to that journal. No, he wasn't then. He wasn't the editor then, but, and it stood out because that came back with post-it stuck on the thing. This is so dull, boring. You know. Again, it wasn't him, but it came back when someone left on those really negative projections and it was the same piece. So you know what, don't worry, it's not, it's like dating. You just gotta visit the numbers and someone's going gonna connect. And so it may not be, the is not good. It didn't fit in for me on this day. But try other places, you know, play the numbers game. Hold on. I just have to back up for a second. You got a rejection with actual post it notes from the person who read it and rejected it with the actual notes of what they said. I don't know if that was intentional, but there were, ah, and then the, the current editor stains are allowed to compliment me on this piece and how he uses it in his teaching. That's all a little satisfying. Oh, that's amazing. It didn't work at that moment. Just keep submitting.KJ:                                22:10                Now you're an editor yourself. So you know, you,Danielle:                       22:13                You got my other thing I do mention is you please do read the submission guidelines. If it says max 5,000 words, don't send a piece of 8,000 words. Yeah. Because it will be rejected. If it says we don't take PSI Phi, don't submit PSI Phi, you would be amazed. You know, we now have to charge a small reading. No, I wouldn't know. We wouldn't have to charge it a $5 meeting fee by our higher ups. We don't have to do, but we have to. Okay, so now you're paying $5 a submitted. Don't submit a piece that we rejected out of hand, you know. But it is all, all in is so common. Maximum three polling people send 10 poems and so I feel terrible. But you know, you do have to, with the submission guidelines, that's your end of the bargain as a writer.KJ:                                22:57                I know that our listeners are now going to be sort of madly Googling Bellevue Literary Review so talk to us about what you guys do publish, what your mission is, and how that has evolved.Danielle:                       23:15                Yeah. So we're looking for, to explore, you know, the issues of underlying health and illness and failty of the body and mind. We call it the journal of humanity, human experience and we interpret that loosely. So topic wise weren't fairly wide ranging, but the writing has to be excellent. That's our first thing. So fiction wise, we are fairly traditional. We do not do genre fiction, romance. We don't, we rarely do flash fiction. We stay away from gimicky writing things that have lots of, you know, 20 different kinds of headings and numbers. You know, I feel like the writing should stand on its own. It has to read like a great short story and it has to be character driven. I've got to feel a need to want to follow this character. So our, our that's our fiction or nonfiction has to be more than just what I did when I went to the doctor.Danielle:                       24:10                It has to rise above that and somehow and, and be applicable to other people or it has to have the same beauty of writing a fiction does it. And it's not academic. We don't take things with footnotes or extensive quotes from 20 different sources and we want your thoughts and your exploration of an issue. And for poetry, we prize accessibility. So again, we do not do, while the experimental stuff, you know, as a unusual literary journal, for many people, we're the only literal journal they've ever read because a lot of our readers are not English lit people. They don't subscribe to 20 literary journals, but they have an interest in medicine and that's how they come to us. So for this audience, we weren't poems they can read and not be intimidated by it. So we tend to stick again a little more traditionally on the poetry that someone who's not an English lit major can read and say, Oh, that, that connects to me.Jess:                             24:59                What I would love to know is how you balance you obviously do your own writing, your working as a physician and so how do you balance these two things and what is your daily or weekly routine look like?KJ:                                25:13                And she's reading all these submissionsJess:                             25:15                and reading all this review.Danielle:                       25:17                That's exactly right. And I will say we also have reviewers who help us weed through the initial slush pile because we can't read all 4,000 ourselves.KJ:                                25:26                That's almost worse because then you're left with you know, 40 things that are all good enough to be in there and the process of figuring out which eight to put together. .Danielle:                       25:36                Exactly. But so anyway, so back when I started, as I mentioned, I ended up on a part time track because that's all that was available. So the full time slot eventually opened up and I said that actually get married and I thought long and hard about going full time, my salary would double because part timers are prorated on the shabbier side of things as you probably know. But I've thought about what would I do if I had twice as much money tomorrow? Well I still couldn't afford an apartment in New York city. You know, I couldn't buy anything. I don't need a car. I have clothes such as they are. And I recognize that the one thing I'd want is that one thing money really can't buy and that's time. So I feel like I kind of bought time by turning down the full time offer and to this day or made 60% off, not happenstance on day one.Danielle:                       26:21                If they sit here and go sign up for the full time as everyone else does, this wouldn't have happened. So I'm 60% of my time in the hospital the equivalent of of six half days, you know, strangely abortion. And then my other time is writing legal. Of course I had three kids in there. So, you know, taking them to the dock, doing everything else in life ends up in that time. So often, you know, your writing time gets eaten away cause you don't leave work to do these things. You take it out of your own time. But I try to, if I can get one or two snippets of writing for an hour or so a week, I'm happy that that's success. And then, you know, the BLR and, and everything else. I took up cello lessons about 13 years ago and that's my will.Danielle:                       27:06                The one thing that I pursue outside of all of this, you know, because I just, I can't, I'm too embarrassed show up to my teacher without having practice. So I'm the goody two shoes, medical student and I practice every night, but I'll go to the gym. I don't see anything else. And I don't watch, I haven't watched a TV show since ER you know, all of that. So I leave pop culture, I leave up to my kids, but so that's, that's kind of how I do it. And then, you know I get rid of everything else. Like my goal in life is to never set foot in a store unless voluntarily. So I ordered it line. I don't want to spend any time shopping unless I want to. So I don't spend my weekends ever going to, you know, stores. I don't really care about my clothes are 20 years old. That's fine, you know, unless I feel like doing it, but not for for necessities.KJ:                                27:56                But you're writing what feel like these densely researched they're interview intense books where you really both telling your own story and telling a thoughtful story about what's happening in the medical profession and wrapping that within the, you know, the story often of a particular case or a particular doctor, one to two hours a week. My mind is boggling, does that include the research?Danielle:                       28:28                Yeah. Everything that, it also depends. I mean I do a lot of traveling, so airplane time is writing time, airport time. You know, often I'll get more writing time in there. But my goal was to have like at least choose two to three sessions where I gets a, you know, a little time of writing. And hopefully more than that, it can be two or three hours, but sometimes it's not. I also did two years that I took off from work. So I took off a year, let's see, my daughter, youngest is 13, so 13 years ago we went to Costa Rica for a year. I quit my job. We took our two kids at the time. I actually had my baby there and we've done a novel, which then turned into a book instead of a novel. And then six years ago we took a year and went to Israel and I worked on what doctors feel and that was really wonderful. I'm gonna talk about a luxury of having, you know, be able to write five days in a row and keep a train of thought. That was, I would love to do it again, but I think I would lose my job.Jess:                             29:28                That's actually what I was gonna mention when KJ said the thing about two hours for me. If I don't have more time than that, I find it very difficult for them to pick up where I left off to continue a train of thought to, you know, continue forward knowing where I'm headed next. So huge respect for being able to pull this stuff together cause your writing is so lovely and your narrative is so seamless. It doesn't, it feels like you're fully immersed in your writing. So I don't know. I'm so impressed.Danielle:                       29:56                Thank you. It's short pieces for that very reason. You know, to write the larger thing takes a chunk of time. Sometimes I will try to block out, you know, for the next month, try to schedule nothing on my writing time so I can write for four hours, you know, several times a week.KJ:                                30:11                Well that's what I was going to ask you. Do you schedule the writing time? Like do you know when your next sessions are going to be? Do you sit down at the beginning of the week or the end of the week and figure out when that's going to fit in?Danielle:                       30:21                No, I mean I know when I'm not in the hospital so that's my starting point. But then things, you know, things fill in. But I try to, each of my time, not in the hospital, at least have some time toward writing. But of course writing also involved, you know, social media and publicity that you have to do a lot on your own and a lot of that, you know, work these days is on, on the writer. So there's that part as well.KJ:                                30:43                Well, and you have a, I mean, you have a new book coming out this spring that you did not get to take a break to write. And I'll just, we'll, we'll put it on our website of course, and talk about it more, but it's called When We Do No Harm, a Doctor Confronts Medical Error. And I'm just taking, you know, a wild swing at the idea that that was not easy to research or write, it's not something people want to talk about.Danielle:                       31:06                Yeah. That is true. That, that it's been several sorts, taken several years to, to write. But people were also remarkably generous, you know, once you find someone who likes to talk and just get on those interviews, you know, am I a non-hospital afternoons or mornings or days? Yeah. and then I try not to do it on weekends, but really when I do a lot of travel, I catch up a lot on writing it, you know, even five hours on a plane, I couldn't ask for anything more. Now some people hate it. I think it's the most ideal luxury.KJ:                                31:39                Yeah, that's, that's the way it works for me too. I have to agree. I just spent intentionally seven hours on a train on Monday and Tuesday for exactly that reason. I mean, I was going somewhere that I wanted to go, but I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't also for that seven hours.Danielle:                       31:54                I've gone there and back to California in two days and I don't give, it isn't all, I'm like, I don't mind that all, man. I have two days in a row to have all this time, you know, with no one bothering you. It's wonderful. So I would fly back and forth across the country if someone would would fund me on that.KJ:                                32:07                There's a story in Deep Work about someone who took a flight to Japan, drank a cup of coffee, got back on the flight and then flew back because he had like, you know, a massive deadline to complete an entire book. And I felt such sympathy. I was like, yeah, yeah, I could do that. That would be a good way to do it.Danielle:                       32:35                Yeah, I do really, I would say Amtrak up and down the East coast. Yes.KJ:                                32:40                I want that Amtrak residency. There you go. That's exactly, yeah. That's exactly where I was for my seven and a half hours. DSLR Boston, New York, New York to Boston.Jess:                             32:52                Alright. You're all helping me reorient my thinking about all the travel and how I'm going to get all the work done. So now, now that it's clear that my,KJ:                                32:59                Well, you're getting ready for what you do when you get there, it is different.Jess:                             33:03                At the same time, I do tend to think of airplane time as, Ooh, I get to listen to an audio book for two whole hours, but now I'm going to reorient and think of it as two hours that I can be spending writing.Danielle:                       33:15                I don't have as much time to read novels. I mean that, that I do have to say between writing manuscripts and writing and listening to audio books, I have to, you know, shelve a few things and unfortunate that often gets shelved. Yeah.Jess:                             33:29                Yeah. Well actually speaking of which we love to spend some time at the end of each podcast talking about what we've been reading. Do you have something you've been enjoying recently?Danielle:                       33:38                So we did have a weekend away and I was in a thrift store and I saw for $1 an EL doctor's book, Ragtime, which I had never read it. You know, I should really read that and I paid my dollar and read it cover to cover in a weekend and just loved it. What am I, I know he's a master, but to sort of be in the clutches of someone who just puts you through that story, no holds barred, it's an amazing experienceJess:                             34:02                That's going to have to go on my list because I have to admit I haven't read that one either. It's one of those books that sort of sits around on the periphery of my consciousness and I've never picked it up so I will have to read that one too.Danielle:                       34:13                Yeah, it goes by very quickly.Jess:                             34:14                KJ, what have you been reading?KJ:                                34:17                I also haven't had, I've been doing pretty intense writing so I haven't had a lot of reading time and I have spent what I have rereading Deep Work by Cal Newport, not Rivkin, although I'm sure he's written something maybe. And you know, it's just, it's one of those books that keeps it, you know 10 minutes in there keeps me focused when I'm you know, when I put the book aside. So I've been rereading it, we've recommended it a zillion times and here I am shouting it out again.Jess:                             34:51                I talked about Deep Work on a podcast with someone else yesterday. It, it comes up all the time for me. I love that book. I am reading, I'm reading two very interesting things. I I was, did an interview in which I punted a question back to the host who asked it of me because I was not up on all of the research on marijuana use and mental illness. And there is now a new book. It just came out by Alex Berenson who writes for the New York Times and various other outlets and it is a book called Tell Your Children the Truth About Marijuana, Mental Illness and Violence. And I'm sure there is going to be a lot to argue about with this book, but it's a really interesting perspective on Alex Berenson had a conversation with his spouse about the, of marijuana use and said, you know, sort of led him down the rabbit hole as it so often does and he decided to write an entire book about it. So now I at least don't have to punt that question. Next time I get asked about marijuana use and mental illness on a podcast because I've now read an entire book about it and it's really interesting and in the same vein, I'm just starting and it's great. Ben Westhoff's new book, Fentanyl, Inc and that one I believe is just about to come out. It should be out by the time this podcast airs. And it's for those people who don't know what fentanyl is, it's the drug that's causing so many drug overdoses because it's sneaking in to so many other drugs, usually heroin. And it's the story of how fentanyl ended up in the drug supply. And it's a fascinating story. I highly recommend it.Danielle:                       36:28                Yeah, just add, I read the recent a New Yorker story by Salman Rushdie calls Little King and he has a new book coming out. This is an excerpt, but fentanyl and the opioid crisis are woven into his story in a remote essay. And so I can't wait for that book to come out.Jess:                             36:45                Oh, I'll have to check that out. Absolutely. do you have an independent bookstore that you love and would love to give a shout out to?Danielle:                       36:53                Oh, I just love The Strand.Jess:                             36:55                You and me and KJ, all of us, we love The Strand. What do you love about it?Danielle:                       37:00                Well, as a student I would pass by there my bike on the way to medical school all the time and pick up those $1 books, you know, all the time. So I just love being able to afford the books. But then I as an author experience the effect of independent bookstore when for what doctors feel my book once death, never put it out as a staff pit and left it out for a year. And we sold copies in that one bookstore than any bookstore in the entire country. It was more than a thousand copies in one store because one staff member put it out there. And I so appreciated that personal touch was all it took. And so I did the opening of my next book at strand. Because I was so happy to be part of that kind of community.Jess:                             37:45                It makes such a huge difference. Our local bookstore did the same thing for the Gift of Failure. It was on a book, you know, it was sort of on the, it wasn't like, Oh, here, here's a little charity for our local author. It was like, we love this book. Here it is. You should read it. And that makes such a huge difference in book sales because the, you know, independent booksellers really have power to move books. It's amazing.Danielle:                       38:06                Oh yeah, absolutely. And so in a BLR, we try to also give shout outs to our authors who have published books. So anyone who's been in the BLR, and that includes you, KJ, if you have, you know, new book coming out, let us know. We will not run on social media and send it around, including on newsletter because we, we know how much those little, you know, boosts help and every little bit helps in today's publishing world.Jess:                             38:28                That's incredibly generous of you. And it means so much to writers to get a shout ou like that. All right. If people would like to find your work. And I do have to mention, you have a wonderful Ted med talk on sort of deconstructing our perceptions of perfection that I think could also be really helpful for writers. I really enjoyed it from the perspective as a writer and thinking about perfection. But if people want to find out about your books, about your Ted, talk about the articles you write, where can they find you?Danielle:                       38:59                My website is just Danielleofri.com. I keep all my writings there on my Ted talks and various things. I also send out a newsletter once a month with new articles. I have a new piece coming out in a week or so, kind of writing about the experience of doctors and nurses in the hospital and, and their perception of their own profession and how it may have not upheld its ideals. So I send that out to non-commercial. And I also talk a little about the Bellevue Literary Review. So if you want to hear that, you know, give me a shout.Jess:                             39:28                Well, and that was what I was going to ask next. If someone wants to find the Bellevue Literary Review either to read or subscribe or to submit, where would, where would we send people for that?Danielle:                       39:38                The blreview.org. Although in the past, a new website coming. So if you get on there now, you might your old one, but the new one is coming soon. So but if you're on my newsletter, you'll hear, you'll hear about it also.Jess:                             39:52                Fantastic. All right, well thank you. This has been incredibly enlightening. This is also been a big hole in our knowledge of the whole, you know, academic and I'm just so grateful to you for all of your knowledge and for the writing that you do, so thank you.Danielle:                       40:06                Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure.Jess:                             40:08                All right, all of our listeners, until next week, keep your button, the chair and your head in the game.KJ:                                40:21                This episode of #AmWriting with Jess and KJ was produced by Andrew Perella. Our music aptly titled Unemployed Monday was written and performed by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their services because everyone, even creatives, should be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Big dreams, and how to achieve them. (Jess likes to be told she can do it. KJ prefers to be told she can't.)#AmReading (and watching) Other People's Houses (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780399587924) , Abbi WaxmanJess: The Butterfly Girl: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780062698162) , Rene DenfeldA Discovery of Witches (book one of the All Souls Trilogy), (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780143119685) Deborah Harkness  (and the miniseries)#FaveIndieBookstoreNorthshire Books (https://www.northshire.com/) , Manchester VT and Saratoga SpringsThis episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s 2-tier outline template.Find more about Jess here (http://www.jessicalahey.com/) , and about KJ here (https://kjdellantonia.com/) .If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship (https://www.marginallypodcast.com/) . This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

The risks and benefits of writing about religion in any genre, with author Phoebe Farag Mikhail.Phoebe's publisher: Paraclete Press (https://paracletepress.com)A few other notes from the episode: Phoebe's book: Putting Joy into Practice: Seven Ways to Lift Your Spirit from the Early Church https://paracletepress.com/collections/new-releases/products/putting-joy-into-practicePhoebe's blog: Being in Community (beingincommunity.com (http://beingincommunity.com/) )Instagram & Twitter: @pkfarag   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/phoebefaragmikhailauthor/  andhttps://www.facebook.com/beingincommunity/Phoeble also mentioned her essay in Talking Writing Magazine about "bridge people":https://talkingwriting.com/agreeing-other-side-can-be-revolutionaryShe chronicled her path to writing after becoming a mom in this essay as well: http://redtri.com/having-children-was-the-best-thing-i-did-for-my-career/#AmReadingKJ: Scarcity: Why Having Too Little Means So Much (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780805092646) , Sendhil MullainathanPhoebe: The Enchanted Hour: The Miraculous Power of Reading Aloud in the Age of Distraction, (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780062562814) Meghan Cox Gurdon#FaveIndieBookstoreThe Strand, New York, NY (https://www.strandbooks.com/)This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s 2-tier outline template.COME RETREAT WITH KJ AND SARINA! Details here (https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwritingretreat?fbclid=IwAR28UHKs094kMRXcybsP6zLyqpuMyJURur5fnc52AVP9ek5EWUpy7ckFu8M)Find more about Jess here (http://www.jessicalahey.com/) , and about KJ here (https://kjdellantonia.com/) .If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship (https://www.marginallypodcast.com/) . This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Tracking your why, your how, your money and your time with Katherine Reynolds Lewis.A few assorted links, comments and toolsToggl time tracker  (https://toggl.com)The 3Ps: Pay, Prestige and Personal PassionKatherine's Excel Spreadsheet:Katherine's Press Club slide show and her checklist for new clients. (https://www.katherinerlewis.com/freelance-advice/)#AmReading:KJ: City of Girls: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781594634734) , Elizabeth GilbertKatherine: Middle School Matters: The 10 Key Skills Kids Need to Thrive in Middle School and Beyond - And How Parents Can Help (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780738235080) , Phyllis FagellCode Like a Girl: Rad Tech Projects and Practical Tips (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781524713898) , Miriam PeskowitzSearching for Sylvie Lee: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780062834300) , Jean Kwok#FaveIndieBookstore(s):Politics and Prose Bookstore (https://www.politics-prose.com/) , Washington, D.C.East City Bookshop (https://www.eastcitybookshop.com/) , Washington, D.C.Solid State Books (https://www.solidstatebooksdc.com/) , Washington, D.C.Bard's Alley (https://www.bardsalley.com/) , Vienna, VAKatherine:KatherineRLewis.com  (https://www.katherinerlewis.com/)Twitter (https://twitter.com/KatherineLewis)Instagram  (http://instagram.com/katherinereynoldslewis)Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Katherine.R.Lewis/)This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s 2-tier outline template.Find more about Jess here (http://www.jessicalahey.com/) , and about KJ here (https://kjdellantonia.com/) .If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship (https://www.marginallypodcast.com/) . This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Jess is going gangbusters on her summer writing, and KJ may be struggling, but they’re both plowing through some serious recs for  your summer reading list from them and from members of the #AmWriting Facebook group.#AmReadingKJ:Rules for Visiting: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/search/book?keys=rules+for+visiting) , Jessica Francis KaneHonestly We Meant Well: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781250143150) , Grant GinderWhat You Don't Know About Charlie Outlaw (https://www.indiebound.org/search/book?keys=what+you+don%27t+know+about+charlie+outlaw) , Leah StewartThe Gifted School: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780525534969) , Bruce HolsingerCity of Girls: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781594634734) , Elizabeth GilbertRange: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780735214484) , David EpsteinThe Sentence is Death: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780062676832) , Anthony HorowitzBowling Avenue (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780985210007) , Ann ShayneThe Library of Lost and Found (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780778369356) , Phaedra PatrickJeeves and the King of Clubs: A Novel in Homage to P.G. Wodehouse (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781549170935) , Ben SchottThere's a Word for That (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780316437165) , Sloane TanenMostly Dead Things (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781947793309) , Kristen ArnettThe Bride Test (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780451490827) , Helen HoangEverything Is Just Fine (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781538745649) , Brett PaeselThe Late Bloomers' Club: A Novel (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781101981238) , Louise MillerAfter the End (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780451490568) , Clare MackintoshI Miss You When I Blink: Essays (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781982102807) , Mary Laura PhilpottHappy Campers: 9 Summer Camp Secrets for Raising Kids Who Become Thriving Adults (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781546081791) , Audrey MonkeJess:Top Secret (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781942444800) , Sarina BowenRaising a Screen Smart Kid: Embrace the Good and Avoid the Bad in the Digital Age (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780143132073) , Julianna MinerBasketball Junkie: A Memoir (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781250006899) , Chris HerrenRough Magic: Riding the World's Loneliest Horse Race (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781948226196) , Lara Prior-PalmerThe Thank-You Project: Cultivating Happiness One Letter of Gratitude at a Time (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780762468454) , Nancy Davis KhoStoney the Pony's Most Inspiring Year: Teaching Children About Addiction Through Metaphor (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781462403110) , Linda MyersEverything Is Just Fine (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781538745649) , Brett Paesel How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780735224155) , Michael Pollan#FaveIndieBookstoreBrookline Booksmith (https://www.brooklinebooksmith.com/) , Brookline, MAThis episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s 2-tier outline template.Find more about Jess here (http://www.jessicalahey.com/) , and about KJ here (https://kjdellantonia.com/) .If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship (https://www.marginallypodcast.com/) . This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

As the wheel of fortune spins, Jess gives us the blow by blow of this week’s celebrity endorsement - spoiler alert...it wasn’t entirely luck! When someone with 10 million followers on Instagram shares a pic of herself reading your book—things happen. And they happened for Jess. But there's a little secret history there. Sure, lightning struck, the stars aligned and everything fell together. But if Jess hadn't done the groundwork, it probably never would have happened.#AmReadingJess: Archaeology From Space: How the Future Shapes Our Past by Sarah Parcak, @indyfromspace www.sarahparcak.com (http://www.sarahparcak.com/)KJ: City of Girls, Elizabeth Glibert#FaveIndieBookstoreThe Vermont Bookstore in MIddlebury Vermont (https://www.vermontbookshop.com/) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Book Coach Jennie Nash returns to tackle some effective strategies for revising; it can be a tortuous process, but it can also be where some of the fun happens!Jennie mentioned Susan Bell's The Artful Edit: On the Practice of Editing Yourself (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780393332179) .#AmReadingKJ: Bowling Avenue (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780985210007) , Ann ShayneJess: In Pain: A Bioethicist's Personal Struggle with Opioids (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780062854643) , Travis Rieder and Red, White & Royal Blue (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781250316776) Casey McQuistonJennie: Daisy Jones & the Six (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781524798628) , Taylor Jenkins Reid#FaveIndieBookstoreChaucer's Bookstore (http://www.chaucersbooks.com/) , Santa Barbara This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s 2-tier outline template.Find more about Jess here (http://www.jessicalahey.com/) , and about KJ here (https://kjdellantonia.com/) .If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship (https://www.marginallypodcast.com/) . This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Tips for getting the work done when the season shifts around you. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Sometimes, the internet turns against you. What to do, what not to do, how to ride it out and remember--the loudest voices aren't necessarily the most numerous. Over the course of our careers, both Jess and I have endured some PR storms. We share some of the gory details, but more importantly, advice from PR pros and from our experiences on how to handle it when you go a little bit viral in the worst way.We heard from PR experts Ophir Lehavy (https://www.ophirlehavy.com/) and Carol Blymire (http://carolblymire.com/) . Ophir pointed us to a crisis control article, and Jess called out (in the good way) a couple of books that are useful when you're at the eye of the storm: Shame Nation: The Global Epidemic of Online Hate (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781492648994) , from Sue Scheff and So You've Been Publicly Shamed (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781594634017) , Jon Ronson.#AmReadingKJ adored Ben Schott's P. G. Wodehouse homage, Jeeves and the King of Clubs (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780316524605) .Jess is treasuring The Truffle Underground: A Tale of Mystery, Mayhem, and Manipulation in the Shadowy Market of the World's Most Expensive Fungus (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780451495693) , Ryan Jacobs and Michelangelo and the Pope's Ceiling (https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781620408407) by Ross King--which she found at the dump, possibly the most indie book source of them all.#FaveIndieBookstoreShout out to one in Jess's new home town, Burlington, VT: The Phoenix (https://www.phoenixbooks.biz/)This episode was sponsored by Author Accelerator, the book coaching program that helps you get your work DONE. Visit https://www.authoraccelerator.com/amwriting for details, special offers and Jennie Nash’s 2-tier outline template.Find more about Jess here (http://www.jessicalahey.com/) , and about KJ here (https://kjdellantonia.com/) .If you enjoyed this episode, we suggest you check out Marginally, a podcast about writing, work and friendship (https://www.marginallypodcast.com/) . This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe