The Long Island History Project

Folklorists would make good podcasters. They are used to finding interesting people and getting them to tell good stories. Take Nancy Solomon for example. As the executive director of Long Island Traditions, she has spent years collecting and studying the stories of baymen, offshore fishermen, boat builders and the like. Today we’ll talk to her about a number of those stories revolving around the subject of weather lore. We discuss how generations of fishermen have scanned the skies and shores for signs of encroaching weather. You’ll hear of hurricanes opening (and closing) inlets along Fire Island, shark sightings, narrow escapes and the lasting impact of Superstorm Sandy. Built up over years and passed down through generations, the weather lore of Long Island fishermen can tell us much about how things have changed and how to best work with nature. And thanks to Debra Anwar Riad for adding her voice to our intro! Further Research Long Island Traditions Long Island Traditions on YouTube Nancy Solomon interview (2007) “The ‘New Cut’ at Old Inlet” Hurricane Sandy (via the National Weather Service) Long Island Commercial Fishing Association The Folklore Society

We return to our conversation with investigative journalist Karl Grossman, picking up his career after the memorable fight against the Fire Island road in the 1960s. For a journalist, what story could top that? Cut to: Shoreham Nuclear Power Station #1. It’s the 1970s and the Long Island Lighting Company (LILCO) is building the first of up to eleven proposed nuclear power plants, poised to turn Long Island into a “nuclear park.” After working at the Long Island Press until its demise in 1977, Karl covers the LILCO story through local papers like the Long Island Advance, the Suffolk County News, the Southampton Press and the East Hampton Star. In addition to Karl, the story is also being followed by Murray Barbash and Irving Like. Veterans of the Fire Island fight, Irv and Murray help form the Citizens Committee to Replace LILCO. Karl relates the various tactics they and others used to help thwart the completion of the Shoreham plant and bring about passage of the Long Island Power Act and the formation of the Long Island Power Authority. Karl also shares his thoughts on the current state of journalism, electronic media, and what has and hasn’t changed on Long Island. Further Research Karl Grossman LIPolitics.com Power Crazy by Karl Grossman (find in a library via WorldCat) Brookhaven National Lab: Our History Our Story: How EDF Got Started Beyond News by Mitchell Stephens (find in a library via WorldCat) NYS Historic Newspapers

It’s 1962 and a Nor’easter has just torn through Long Island. In its wake is another storm, Long Island Parks Commissioner Robert Moses with his plan to build a road down the middle of Fire Island. It will stabilize the beach, he says. It will provide beauty and ease to the motorist, he says. But local builder Murray Barbash notices that the road will run right through his new development of Dunewood, flattening it and pretty much anything else in its path (including Sunken Forest). Murray gets together with his brother-in-law Irving Like and the rest, if you don’t know already, is history. Murray’s daughters Cathy and Susan knew the story but over the course of the last year they set about documenting that history. Sifting through a number of local and regional archives (including Dowling’s) they pieced together the saga of the road-that-never-was. On this episode you’ll hear from Cathy and Susan and their mother Lillian about how an unlikely coalition of Long Island “vigilantes” outwitted and outlasted the great Robert Moses. You can soon see Cathy’s and Susan’s research for yourself when the exhibit they created is permanently installed with Seatuck at the Suffolk County Environmental Center in Islip. For now, use the handy scorecard below to keep track of who’s who in this gripping story of intrigue and power set against the natural beauty of Fire Island. Many thanks to the Barbash family for sharing their time, memories and photos. Scorecard for this Episode The Long Island “Vigilantes” Murray Barbash: builder with an eye for beauty, developer of Dunewood Lillian Barbash: his wife Irving Like: indomitable lawyer and Murray’s brother-in-law Paul Townsend: “The Wizard,” publisher of the Long Island Business News Robert Cushman Murphy: the tallest ornithologist in the world The State Robert Moses: New York’s [insert your own adjective] Master Builder Nelson Rockefeller: the not-to-be-bullied Governor of New York Laurance Rockefeller: Nelson’s brother and noted conservationist Long Island’s Legislators Stuyvesant Wainwright: Congressman from New York’s 1st District, proposed a Fire Island National Seashore when no one was looking Otis Pike: wins Wainwright’s seat with Moses’ backing, becomes reluctant sponsor of the Fire Island National Seashore bill The Feds Stewart Udall – Secretary of the Interior, consummate insider and good guy President John F. Kennedy: wanted National Parks in the East, dammit The Media Charles Collingwood: Saltaire resident and CBS newsman Wolcott Gibbs: writer for the New Yorker and Fire Island playwright Teddy White: Fair Harbor resident and chronicler of presidents Julius Monk: New York cabaret impresario whom we have to thank for the classic “Slow Down Moses” Further Research Season in the Sun  by Wolcott Gibbs (from the Playbill Vault) A Marvelous Order: An Opera About Robert Moses and Jane Jacobs Robert Moses: Master Builder of New York City (find in a library via WorldCat) “The Fire on New York’s Famous Island” (Sports Illustrated) Robert Moses Papers at the New York Public Library Rockefeller Archive Center Stewart Udall Oral History at the JFK Library Paul Townsend Collection at Dowling College Robert Cushman Murphy Collection at Stony Brook University The Films of Ron Howard (just in case)

Karl Grossman has been an investigative reporter on Long Island since the early 1960s. Barely in his twenties, he cut his journalistic teeth at the Babylon Town Leader taking on one of the most powerful men in New York State: Robert Moses. Karl covered the developing story of Moses’ plan to build a highway down the middle of Fire Island. Although the plan horrified local residents, many on the Island and in the press supported it. Through the work of Karl and papers like the Suffolk County News and the Long Island Business News and most importantly people like Murray Barbash, Irving Like and Robert Cuhsman Murphy, the plan was washed away. In its place we have the Fire Island National Seashore. Today is part 1 of our interview with Karl on his early career, the power of the press, and how he was almost an alum of Dowling College (then known as Adelphi Suffolk College). You’ll hear about his further battles in part 2 but first in two weeks we’ll revisit the Moses fight from the perspective of the Barbash family. Stay tuned!   Further Research Karl Grossman Works by Karl Grossman Related Books Fire Island National Seashore Digital Public Library of America resources Related podcasts: Mike Jahn, The New York Times and Rock & Roll Leroy Douglas and the Class of ’64

St. David AME Zion Church in Eastville. Photo courtesy of the Eastville Community Historical Society. Eastville endures. Through the rise and fall of the whaling industry, over the long slow death of slavery, past the rising tide of development on the East End of Long Island. From the early 19th-century this small collection of streets and houses east of Sag Harbor, anchored around the St. David AME Zion Church, has retained its character as a place that a vibrant mix of African Americans, Native Americans, and European immigrants called home. On this episode of the Project, we speak with Dr. Georgette Grier-Key, Executive Director and Curator of the Eastville Community Historical Society. She relates the history of the area, from the early 1830s into the late 20th century when the Society was founded. Portrait of an Eastville resident. Photo courtesy of the Eastville Community Historical Society. You’ll hear about the prominence of Native Americans and African Americans in the whaling industry as well as the importance of Sag Harbor as the first port of entry in New York. Among the people we discuss are Nathan Cuffee, a Montaukett member of the community who co-wrote the novel Lords of the Soil in 1905, depicting life on the east end of Long Island. Georgette also tells the surprising story of Pyrrhus Concer from nearby Southampton, an African American who, on a whaling voyage in 1845, became one of the first Americans to visit Japan. We also discuss the challenges of documenting and preserving the histories of marginalized people. How do you prove, for example, that one of the trapdoors in the Church was used to hide escaping slaves on the Underground Railroad? How do you protect an unassuming house that is actually made out of wood from recovered 19th century shipwrecks and may contain generations of important stories? Courtesy of the Eastville Historical Society Sometimes you get lucky and discover a trove of tintype portraits nailed face-down into the floor of a cottage. Sometimes you fail, and structures get razed despite what they might be able to tell us about the past. Sometimes the results are mixed. Pyrrhus Concer’s house was demolished but only after significant parts had been salvaged. You’ll hear Georgette talk about these cases and related issues along with the importance of understanding and enforcing the codes that should be helping inform decisions around such properties. You’ll also hear about ongoing projects to document African American burial sites throughout Long Island. And if you enjoy these episodes, make sure to follow this site via email or subscribe to the podcast in iTunes. Leave us a comment and let us know what aspects of Long Island history you’d like to hear discussed. http://wwwx.dowling.edu/library/new/GrierKey.mp3 Stream in the player above or download audio. Further Research Eastville Community Historical Society Sag Harbor Whaling Museum Sylvester Manor Lords of the Soil by Nathan Cuffee (via Google Books) Eastville Tintypes from Floor to Wall (East Hampton Star) Burial Database Project of Enslaved African Americans Slavery and Salvation: Long Island’s Underground Railroad (Long Island Press) Slavery in New York (New York Historical Society)

Shinnecock (2013). Photo courtesy of Thom Hoffman When something piques Thom Hoffman’s interest, he starts asking questions. Then he tries to work out the answers through film. The result has been an eclectic mix of documentaries (three to date) that share some common traits: his desire to educate and his love of Long Island history. Brother, Can You Spare a Dollar? (2012).Photo courtesy of Thom Hoffman On today’s interview you’ll hear how Thom got his start working with Ray Adell on the “About Long Island” radio series and then expanded into documentaries. His first film featured the story of Brooklyn doo-wop stalwart Lenny Cocco and the Chimes. Next came his comparison of the Great Depression and the Great Recession. His latest, Shinnecock, explores the long history of the Shinnecock Nation in Southampton. Still in the Mood for Love (2010). Photo courtesy of Thom Hoffman We also ask Thom about the challenges of producing and distributing documentaries on Long Island. How do you get them to a wider audience? How do you get the quality of production needed? His answers echo many of the things we’ve heard in our discussions with others involved in documentary filmmaking on Long Island. On that note, if you’re interested in screening any of his movies or helping find a home for the “About Long Island” archive, you can contact Thom at hof565 [at] optonline.net http://wwwx.dowling.edu/library/new/HoffmanThom.mp3 Stream in the player above or download audio. Further Research Thom Hoffman Trailers: Shinnecock (2013) Brother, Can You Spare a Dollar? (2012) Still in the Mood for Love (2010) About Long Island radio spots from Ray Adell Media Lenny Cocco and the Chimes Cinema Arts Centre, Huntington Resources for Filmmakers (from POV on PBS)

Suffolk County Historian Peter Fox Cohalan is back in session for part two of our interview. This week we get deeper into the history of Islip, traveling all the way from the bottom of the Bay (and who really owned it) back to Islip, England and the ancestral home of the Nicoll family. We also get Peter Fox’s insight into historic preservation at the local and regional levels as well as the unique situations that can arise on Long Island. Finally, we’ll hear about the work of the Robert D.L. Gardiner Foundation. As a board member, Peter Fox is involved in helping the Foundation support the study and preservation of New York history with a focus on Islip and Suffolk County. http://wwwx.dowling.edu/library/new/PeterFoxCohalan2.mp3 Stream in the player above or download audio. Further Research Peter Fox Cohalan Part I Robert D.L. Gardiner Foundation Islip Parish, Northamptonshire New York State Historic Preservation Office

Peter Fox Cohalan was named Suffolk County Historian in 2012 but in many ways he’s been preparing for the role his whole life. In fact, the Cohalans and history go way back. The first Cohalan in America arrived with Lafayette during the Revolution. One branch of the family led to a Grand Sachem of Tammany Hall, another to the first Catholic priest on Long Island. In his own storied career, Peter Fox has been Islip Town Supervisor, Suffolk County Executive, and State Supreme Court Judge (one of five Cohalans -including his father-  to reach that position.) With the historian’s eye for detail and the Irishman’s gift for storytelling, Peter Fox can discuss the Sayville of his youth as easily as the quarrels of the early Federalists. On this episode of the Project he recounts the Sayville of the 1930s and ’40s along with his father’s time as coach at the La Salle Military Academy in Oakdale.  We’ll also hear about preservation efforts he spearheaded (like the Islip Grange in Sayville) as well as his family’s connections to the unforgettable Robert David Lion Gardiner. Join us next week for Part 2. http://wwwx.dowling.edu/library/new/PeterFoxCohalan1.mp3 Stream in the player above or download audio. Further Research Sayville Historical Society Sayville Public Library Historic Images Robert D.L. Gardiner Foundation Islip Grange South Shore Nature Center

Welcome back to our Native American Heritage Month discussion! From Whaling and Fishing by Charles Nordhoff, 1895. Today we bring you the rest of our conversation with members of the Shinnecock Nation Cultural Center & Museum in Southampton, Long Island. This time out we’ll hear from director and curator David Bunn Martine. David relates how he got interested in Shinnecock history and by telling his family’s story he uncovers much of the scope and sweep of the Native American experience. Geronimo. Illustrated American, Aug 16, 1890 By the end of the episode you’ll hear about Samson Occum, long whaling voyages, the Shinnecock connection to Teddy Roosevelt, Geronimo, the Boarding School Period and more. We also talk about the difference between Plains and Woodlands people and the enduring danger of stereotypes. Thanks also to Eileen Dugan, Education Coordinator at the Museum, for arranging these interviews. http://wwwx.dowling.edu/library/new/Shinnecock2.mp3 Stream in the player above or download audio. Further Research David Martine The Shinnecock Nation on Facebook Shinnecock Indian Nation Shinnecock interview part I The Indian Mariners Project The Occum Circle American Indian Artists, Inc. Native American Heritage Month

David Martine, Cholena Smith, Chris Kretz, Connie Currie (l to r) To honor Native American Heritage month here at the Project, we’ve got two interviews lined up regarding the Shinnecock Nation in Southanmpton. Connie and I sat down with David Bunn Martine (Director and Curator) and Cholena Smith (Education and Program Manager) from the Shinnecock Nation Cultural Center & Museum to discuss the history of the tribe and the operations of the Museum. Located at 100 Montauk Highway in Southampton, this is the only Native American-owned and -operated museum on Long Island. Today in Part 1 you’ll hear about the origins and development of the Museum including their efforts to propagate the Shinnecock language. We also discuss the Shinnecock Powwow, the persistent challenge of stereotypes and, as a bonus, I finally get to use my knowledge of popular 19th-century German fiction writers. Thanks also to Eileen Dugan, Education Coordinator at the Museum, for arranging these interviews. Stay tuned for Part 2 in two weeks in which David will tell us more about Shinnecock history and the Native American experience in this country. http://wwwx.dowling.edu/library/new/Shinnecock1.mp3 Stream in the player above or download audio. Further Research The Shinnecock Nation on Facebook Native American Heritage Month Mashantucket Pequot Museum Native American Pow Wows Algonquian Language Family Wild West Germany (the life of Karl May via the New Yorker) Interview with Dr. Gaynell Stone on Long Island archaeology and Native Americans