The Geek In Review

In this episode of The Geek in Review, hosts Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert interview M.C. Sungaila, an appellate attorney and the host of The Portia Project podcast. The podcast is geared towards highlighting women in traditional and non-traditional legal careers and is set to celebrate its 100th episode during Women's History Month in March. M.C. Sungaila initially intended to highlight women appellate judges and justices in a book, but quickly realized that a podcast would be the best medium to capture the stories of these women. The podcast now includes women leaders across the industry and beyond, providing a career touchstone for law students and showcasing where women are leading inside and outside the legal profession. The Portia Project podcast explores a range of courts, including state, federal, and magistrate courts, as well as the process of becoming a judge, and was a finalist for the California Legal Award for Innovation in Diversity and Inclusion. M.C. talks about partnerships with organizations like Girls Inc. to amplify their work. The podcast eventually expanded beyond the judiciary to include legal tech founders, legal design innovators, and others who are making an impact in the legal world. M.C. Sungaila encourages law students to explore these new career paths. There is a common thread among the guests in that there is no straight path to success, and everyone has unique experiences and skills that lead to their success. M.C. emphasizes the importance of recognizing that success can be different for everyone, and there are many paths to success. She plans to continue focusing on women judges, especially appellate judges, and to include more unique journeys and different approaches to legal practice in the podcast. Additionally, she hopes to branch out beyond the legal industry to bring in guests from other disciplines to provide new thoughts and ideas for women in the law. In the final part of the podcast episode, M.C. Sungaila discusses the disproportionate share (in a good way) of women on the Supreme Court benches in Michigan and Washington and the desire to diversify the courts in those states. She also talks about the lightning round questions she asks her guests and how it helps her get to know them as people. M.C. shares her optimism for the future of women in the legal industry and the importance of being people centered. We ask MC about her motto, which she attributes to her mother's notes to her throughout her career, such as "make this the best day ever" and "paint your canvas with your own brush." M.C. Sungaila's Portia Project podcast is an excellent resource for law students and individuals interested in learning about the diverse career paths and approaches to legal practice for women in the legal industry. Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks

The promise of AI has been around for decades, but it is the last three months that has finally caused an awakening so forceful, that even the legal industry understands it needs to be ready for the upcoming Age of AI. This week's guest has worked toward that goal of integrating AI and other technologies into to practice of law for more than forty years. Johannes (Jan) Scholtes is Chief Data Scientist for iPRO – ZyLAB, and Extraordinairy (Full) Professor Text Mining at Maastricht University in The Netherlands. He joins us this week to discuss the need for lawyers and law firms to use these tools to enhance the power of the practice of law. And he warns that if the traditional legal resources of lawyers and firms won't step up, there are others who will step in to fill that void. While the AI tools like GPT and other generative AI tools have finally began to be true language tools, there is still a lot that these tools simply cannot do. Scholtes says that there is plenty of legal work to be done, and in fact perhaps more work now that the computers can do most of the heavy lifting and allow the lawyers to do the thinking and strategy.  Scholtes compares the relationship between the lawyer and the technology to be that of a pilot and co-pilot. A relationship in which the co-pilot cannot be completely trusted, but can be trained to assist through the process of vertical training. This means that a law firm needs to work with the AI to have it better understand how to process legal information. Having the technology alongside the lawyers provides a stronger legal representation than just the lawyers or the technology alone. In addition to reducing risk and improving outcomes, Scholtes also projects that Lawyer + AI means higher rates and better profitability, while the clients receive better results.  It is exciting to be at the beginning of this change in the way law is practiced. It is important, however, that law firms, lawyers, and legal professionals understand how to teach and control the technology, and that there needs to be transparency in how the tools work and make decisions. His recommendation is that if all you are offered is and AI Black Box, then you should simply walk away. That lack of trust will come back to bite you. For more insights from Jan Scholtes, visit his blog, Legal Tech Bridge. Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks

It is pretty apparent that we are in a super Hype Cycle when it comes to AI tools like ChatGPT, but for many of us in the legal profession, we're not used to reaching this point of the cycle at the same time as the rest of the world. Because things are happening so fast, we wanted to bring in someone like Colin Lachance from Jurisage to talk about how they are integrating Generative AI tools into their products. Greg was going down an AI rabbit hole on Twitter this week when Colin mentioned his own project. Jurisage's tool, MyJr (pronounced "My Junior") is part of a joint venture between Jurisage and AltaML, and is designed to change how researchers access information by allowing the AI tool to synthesis and read cases as the researchers search and analyze the information. Rather than opening up web browser tab after tab and scanning cited cases for relevant information, the idea behind MyJr is to have it quickly answer that information for you. If you need to know what the relevant arguments are from each side in Smith v. Jones, as MyJr to pass that along to you. Ask it a plain language question, get a quick and plain language answer.  Lachance is working to use the GPT 3.5 tool to pass along cases and create what he calls "guardrails" with the cases so that the prompt and the results limit themselves to the case itself. This protects the researcher from the AI "creating" the answer from all the non-relevant information it has collected in its large language model of machine learning. Lachance has additional goals for using AI within Jurisage's data, but he's focused tools like MyJr establishing trust with those using it for researching Canadian, and soon US caselaw. The MyJr product works as a browser extension and identifies Canadian and US case law citations on any web page. It delivers a preview into key details about the cited case, and a link to a free full-text version, in a popup when the user hovers over the citation. Clicking through to a "more insights" dashboard reveals additional detail as well as access to the upcoming "Chat with a case" feature (Feb 20th for Canadian case, a month later for US). While the paid version of the dashboard won't officially launch until late March, user can get unlimited pre-sale access today as well as secure a future 50% discount option for a one-time payment of $7. More information on Jurisage and MyJr can be found here: Main: https://jurisage.com/ MyJr: https://jurisage.com/myjr/ Chat: https://jurisage.com/ask-myjr-chat/ Free MyJr Chrome browser extension  @ColinLachance (Twitter) Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks

This week we have Damien Riehl, VP, Litigation Workflow and Analytics Content at Fastcase, and one of the drivers behind SALI (Standards Advancement for   for the Legal Industry.) Damien is definitely a "big thinker" when it comes to the benefits of creating and using standards for the legal industry. SALI is a system of tagging legal information to allow for better filtering and analysis. It works like Amazon's product tags, where a user can search for a specific area of law, such as patent law, and then choose between various services such as advice, registration, transactional, dispute, or bankruptcy services. The tags cover everything from the substance of law to the business of law, with over 13,000 tags in the latest version. SALI is being adopted by major legal information providers such as Thomson Reuters, Lexis, Bloomberg, NetDocuments, and iManage, with each provider using the same standardized identifiers for legal work. With this standardization, it will be possible to perform the same API query across different providers and receive consistent results. Imagine the potential of being able to ask one question that is understood by all your database and external systems?  In that same vein, we expand our discussion to include how Artificial Intelligence tools like Large Language Models (i.e., ChatGPT, Google BARD, Meta's LLM) could assist legal professionals in their quest to find information, create documents, and help outline legal processes and practices.  He proposed three ways of thinking about the work being done by these models, which are largely analogous to traditional methods. The first way is what Riehl refers to as a "bullshitter," where a model generates information without providing citations for the information. The second way is called a "searcher," where a model generates a legal brief, but does not provide citations, forcing the user to search for support. The third way is called a "researcher," where the model finds relevant cases and statutes, extracts relevant propositions, and crafts a brief based on them. Riehl believes that option three, being a researcher, is the most likely to win in the future, as it provides "ground truth" from the start. He cites Fastcase's acquisition of Judicata as an example of how AI can be used to help with research by providing unique identifiers for every proposition and citation, enabling users to evaluate the credibility of the information. In conclusion, Riehl sees a future where AI is used to help researchers by providing a pick list of the most common propositions and citations, which can then be further evaluated by the researcher.  One thing is very clear, we are just at the beginning of a shift in how the legal industry processes information. Riehl's one-two combination of SALI Standards combined with additional AI and human capabilities will create a divide amongst the bullshitters, the searchers, and the researchers. Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks

"Whether you like it or not, everybody's searching for us online. And everybody is looking at your LinkedIn profile, whether you're on LinkedIn every day, or once a year, so you might as well make it work for you." - Stefanie Marrone Stefanie Marrone is an Outsource Marketer who advises legal professionals on improving their social media presence.  Even legal professionals in large law firms can benefit from a strong social media presence because clients and potential clients relate to the individual more than they do the firm. Marrone's experience in firms like Proskauer and MoFo helped shaped her understanding of how important it is to have a strategy when it comes to branding. LinkedIn is her suggested primary platform for lawyers and legal professionals because that is the most likely platform where you'll find your peers and clients.  One of the most effective forms of content, even on LinkedIn, is short-form video. In addition, list posts, infographics, carousel images, and finding ways to bring even firm posts to life helps draw attention to social media posts. For lawyers who have a marketing team, Stefanie suggests establishing a social media training program, especially for LinkedIn.  While we would all love to have some metric that identifies the return on investment of social media, it is not as easy as the number of likes a post receives. Success on social media is a combination of brand awareness, influence on decision making, and information dissemination. However, Marrone points out that many firms have thousands, or even tens of thousands of followers, and if the only engagement you are receiving is minimal, or from a few people, then it is clear that your social media strategy is not working.  Marrone also points out that lawyers and legal professionals should stick to one or two platforms and not spread yourselves too thin. LinkedIn, YouTube, and Twitter are probably the safest bets, but it depends on the message you are trying to convey.  To learn more from Stefanie, check out:  The Social Media Butterfly Blog LinkedIn Twitter  YouTube Or, check out Stefanie's French Bulldogs, Lucy and Scarlett's Instagram Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks

In this engaging conversation, Shayne Phillips, Director of Analytics Solutions at Anaqua/Acclaim IP, sheds light on how Patent Agents enhance the legal landscape. She discusses the strategic advantages they offer, such as using data for competitive insights and navigating patent trends. Shayne emphasizes their role in assisting R&D teams with patent literature and highlights the growing impact of AI in managing intellectual property. With millions of patents to analyze, she underscores the transformative potential of technology in the industry.

This is going to be something that all of you will find "interesting," but maybe not something that you will like. Last week on 3 Geeks, I posted a blog that talked about how to use AI to generate summaries of legal articles. This week, I wanted to expand on that project a little and see if I could turn the summaries into a podcast. The goal was to try to get it completely automated, and completely AI generated. Well... as you can see from the title of this episode, it was almost completely automated, and AI generated. But not 100%. Here’s the process I created, and I attached the mp3 of the output. RSS Feed that tracks new BigLaw Podcast Episodes. Use a Python script to pull the episode information. Use GPT to create a description of the episode. Use Descript to translate the text summaries into voice output. (I did lightly edit these with an intro and outro as well as tweak the transitions between each review.) Use Soundraw to create an intro/outro music. Combine in Audacity. Output in mp3. All of these tools are actually free, except for GPT, which is about $0.01 or less per article.  This is far from perfect, but it is kind of cool, and I think there are some uses for these tools. Whether you love this, hate this, or don't really care, I'd like to hear what you think!! Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks and a Law Blog

There is a lot of buzz around ChatGPT and GPT 3.5, but is it really the next Tesla, or is it the next IBM Watson? We talk with HyperDraft's Tony Thai and Ashley Carlisle about OpenAI's popular tool and why, lawyers at least, shouldn't be ready to go all in on this specific technology. While there are great examples of how GPT 3.5 impressively handled things like Bar Exam questions, there are still a lot of unknowns from this resource from a company that started out as Open Source and non-profit, but has released a product that is neither. While the conversation focused a lot on the short comings of ChatGPT, there is a lot of promise in the technology, even if it may be years before it can handle the complex issues that lawyers and the legal community handle on behalf of their clients. Are we going to reach The Singularity in 2023, or is it decades away? Can AI plug the Access to Justice gap, or will it cause more issues than it solves? Will this specific AI tool continue to improve as it devours more data and leverages millions of users, or will it become corrupted by bad actors who discover how it inputs its data? Can society use this to better ourselves, or will it become another way to play upon our short attention spans? We cover all of this and more in a roundtable discussion. We'd love to hear your thoughts on what value you see in ChatGPT and GPT 3.5 in the legal industry. So reach out to us on Twitter or give us a call! Links: ChatGPT  and GPT 3.5 Bob Ambrogi's LawNext Interview of Daniel Martin Katz and Michael Bommarito on GPT 3.5's Bar Results HyperDraft AI Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks and a Law Blog

Mollie Nichols is the CEO of Redgrave Data, a company that uses data analytics and technology to assist the legal industry. After leaving Hogan Lovells, Mollie launched Redgrave Data in January of 2022 and has seen a strong demand for their services in data analytics, regulation, compliance, and internal investigations. Companies often seek the expert assistance of Redgrave Data in order to improve efficiency among the law firms, eDiscovery services, ALSPs, and internal legal operations. She is working to move legal departments away from being seen as a "black hole for money" and focused more on the unique and valuable in achieving the strategic goals of the company. One of the hidden gems in these legal departments is the insights that the legal team can uncover through visualization and analysis of the data within the department.  One area that Mollie things the legal industry needs to change is how it processes and analyzes the data we collect and create. You cannot look at data simply as a commodity. Where your data tools or your outsourced data analytics teams take unique batches of data and then send it through a one-sized fits all process. Data has to be analyzed through the lens of the current legal issue or toward the goals of the company. This is one of the areas that she says Redgrave Data stands apart from others in the field. In her Crystal Ball projection, Mollie Nichols sees the use of artificial intelligence (AI) in the legal field is likely to increase, but some lawyers and judges may not fully understand or accept it. AI can help with the growing volume and complexity of data in legal cases, but there may be challenges in accessing and using this data effectively. Overall, she thinks that AI is going to have a significant impact on the legal field. Links: Redgrave Data Website Mollie Nichols - Bio Mollie Nichols - LinkedIn New Logo!! We are SUPER GEEKED about our new logo design. Shoutout to logo designer @ChangoATX who did a wonderful job and got our new logo completed just in time for the holidays!! Let us know what you think. Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks and a Law Blog

This week, we have a jam-packed episode featuring five of our colleagues from a 2022 American Association of Law Libraries panel on APIs.  Emily Rushing, Director of Competitive Intelligence, Haynes and Boone, LLP Pam Noyd, Information Resources Manager at Foley & Lardner LLP Erik Adams, Manager of Library Digital Initiatives Manager of Library Digital Initiatives at Sidley Austin LLP, and Chief of Technology at Golden Arrow Publishing LLC Keli Whitnell, Director of Firm Intelligence at Troutman Pepper Christopher O'Connor, Senior Director, Product Management at LexisNexis APIs, or Application Programming Interfaces, have become an increasingly important tool in the legal industry. The panel included members with diverse backgrounds and perspectives, including both librarians and non-librarians. This diversity provided a holistic view of the topic, covering everything from the technical aspects of using APIs to the importance of data quality and vetting vendors. APIs are like building blocks for legal solutions (think: LEGO Blocks), allowing for the flexible sharing of data between different computer environments. This enables more creative solutions than vendors could create on their own and has led to a range of innovative legal solutions. Overall, the panel provided valuable insights into the use of APIs in the legal industry and highlighted their potential for facilitating more efficient and effective legal work. As the use of API's continues to grow, it will be important for legal professionals to stay up to date on the latest developments and best practices in this area. Links Mentioned: Afraid of APIs? Implementing APIs for Law Firm Data Requires Soft Skills as Well   How To Evaluate and Get Started with Data APIs If Data is the New Gold, then Law Libraries are a Goldmine: Panning for Gold with APIs Crystal Ball Question: Brad Blickstein discusses the potential for a recession and its effects on the legal industry. He speculates that Alternative Legal Service Providers (ALSPs) will benefit from the downturn, as law departments will be unable to increase headcount. He also discusses the question of where the work done by ALSPs will go once the recession ends and whether law firms will be able to regain the work. Contact Us: Twitter: @gebauerm, or @glambert Voicemail: 713-487-7821 Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.com Music: Jerry David DeCicca Transcript available on 3 Geeks and a Law Blog