The Geek In Review

Cat Moon and Mark Williams return to The Geek in Review wearing two hats, plus one tiara. The conversation starts at Vanderbilt’s inaugural AI Governance Symposium, where “governance” means wildly different things depending on who shows up. Judges, policy folks, technologists, in-house leaders, and law firm teams all brought separate definitions, then bumped into each other during generous hallway breaks. Those collisions led to new research threads and fresh coursework, which feels like the real product of a symposium, beyond any single panel.One surprise thread moved from wonky sidebar to dinner-table topic fast, AI’s energy appetite and the rise of data centers as a local political wedge issue. Mark describes needing to justify the topic months earlier, then watching the news cycle catch up until no justification was needed. Greg connects the dots to Texas, where energy access, on-site generation, and data-center buildouts keep lawyers busy. The point lands, AI governance lives upstream from prompts and policies, down in grids, zoning fights, and infrastructure decisions.From there, the episode pivots to training, law students, and the messy transition from “don’t touch AI” to “your platforms already baked AI into the buttons.” Mark shares how students now return from summer programs having seen tools like Harvey, even if firms still look like teams building the plane during takeoff. Cat frames the real need as basic, course-by-course guidance so students gain confidence instead of fear. Greg adds a perfect artifact from the academic arms race, Exam Blue Book sales jumping because handwritten exams keep AI out of finals, while AI still helps study through tools like NotebookLM quiz generation.Governance talk gets practical fast, procurement, contract language, standards, and the sneaky problem of feature drift inside approved tools. Mark flags how smaller firms face a brutal constraint problem, limited budget, limited time, one shot to pick from hundreds of products, and no dedicated procurement bench. ISO 42001 shows up as a shorthand signal for vendor maturity, though standards still lag behind modern generative systems. Marlene brings the day-to-day friction, outside counsel guidelines, client consent, and repeated approvals slow adoption even after a tool passes internal reviews. Greg nails the operational pain, vendors ship new capabilities weekly, sometimes pushing teams from “closed universe” to “open internet” without much warning.The closing crystal ball lands on collaboration and humility. Cat argues for a future shaped by co-creation across firms, schools, and students, not a demand-and-defend standoff about “practice-ready” graduates. Mark zooms out to the broader shift in the knowledge-work apprenticeship model, fewer beginner reps, earlier specialization pressure, and new ownership models knocking on the door in places like Tennessee. Along the way, Cat previews Women + AI Summit 2.0, with co-created content, travel stipends for speakers, workshops built around take-home artifacts, plus a short story fiction challenge to write women into the future narrative, tiara energy optional but encouraged.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.]

Judge Scott Schlegel of the Louisiana Fifth Circuit Court of Appeal joins The Geek in Review for a candid, funny, and unflinchingly practical conversation about AI inside the judicial system. Schlegel wears multiple hats, appellate judge, former prosecutor, reform-minded builder, plus a podcaster and Substack writer who speaks plainly about what works and what fails when technology hits real people on real timelines. The throughline stays consistent, courts do not need more hype, courts need competence, guardrails, and a process mindset.Judge Schlegel tackles the messy reality of AI disclosures, certifications, and uneven court rules across jurisdictions. His core message lands fast, judicial authority lives with the judge, not an AI system. From there, he outlines why chambers guidance matters, along with a structured, step-by-step approach for responsible drafting support, including prompt discipline and workflow thinking. The goal stays simple, faster decisions without surrendering judgment to “bot overlords.”The discussion then shifts to constraints judges live with every day, budgets, procurement rules, security anxiety, and the gap between shiny vendor demos and courthouse reality. Schlegel argues for a scrappy, process-first approach using small pilots, one chambers, one workflow, one measurable result. He compares the moment to early “cloud” adoption lessons, pay for the right security, avoid free tools where the user becomes the product, and treat sensitive records with strict care. Courts will see broader adoption as enterprise-grade options become attainable and baked into trusted platforms.Then comes the part that lingers in your head after the episode ends, deepfakes and voice cloning as a near-term threat to due process, especially in domestic violence and protective order contexts. Schlegel explains why judges tend to err on the side of safety, and why “damage done” shows up long before expert testimony arrives. His practical recommendation focuses on pretrial practice, require disclosure, surface manipulation concerns early, and reduce surprises at trial. He even shares a simple family safety habit, a private “secret word” to confirm identity during urgent calls, since voice cloning tools lower the barrier for fraud.Finally, Schlegel offers a sharp warning about confirmation bias, large language models often aim to please the user, which benefits advocates and harms neutral decision-making. His answer: an “AI alignment test” mindset, deliberate prompting, and refusal to outsource the white-page moment to a model. For the future, he points toward structural change courts rarely receive funding for, true legal technologists who redesign case management and public-facing guidance at scale. If courts stop printing emails and living in wire baskets, progress follows, and yes, somewhere in a parallel universe, Schlegel still wants a hologram machine.Judge Schlegel, his court, and his workJudge Schlegel bio page. Judge Scott SchlegelLouisiana Fifth Circuit Court of Appeal profile page for Judge Schlegel. Fifth Circuit Court of AppealJudge Schlegel’s Tech & Gavel landing page. Judge Scott SchlegelTech & Gavel on Apple Podcasts. Apple PodcastsAI-in-courts guidance, plus his newsletter“AI in Chambers: A Framework for Judicial AI Use” (includes the download link). Judge Scott SchlegelSchlegel Tech Substack newsletter. [sch]Legal Tech SubstackDeepfakes, provenance, and content credentialsC2PA, Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity, “About” page. C2PAListen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join Sarah Glassmeyer, a legal tech analyst, and Niki Black, a strategist for solo and small firms, as they reflect on the wild world of legal tech in 2025. They discuss the overwhelming emergence of generative AI, noting its rapid adoption among solos and smaller firms. The conversation unveils a shift towards business-tier AI alternatives while cautioning against the perils of hallucinations. They share insights on regulatory implications, the challenges of using multiple tools, and speculate on AI's impact on billing practices, making for a thought-provoking year-end recap.

For decades, “the record” has meant one thing: a text transcript built by skilled stenographers, trusted by courts, and treated as the backbone of due process. In this episode of The Geek in Review, Marlene Gebauer and Greg Lambert sit down with JP Son, Verbit’s Chief Legal Officer, and Matan Barak, Head of Legal Product, to talk about what happens when a labor shortage, rising demand, and better speech technology collide. Verbit has been in legal work since day one, supporting court reporting agencies behind the scenes, but their latest push aims to modernize the full arc of proceedings, from depositions through courtroom workflows, with faster turnaround and more usable outputs.A core tension sits at the center of the conversation: innovation versus legitimacy. Marlene presses on whether digital records carry the same defensibility as stenographic ones, and JP frames Verbit’s posture as support, not replacement. Verbit is not a court reporting agency; their angle is tooling that helps certified professionals and agencies produce better outcomes, including real-time workflows that once required heavy manual effort. The result is less “robots replace reporters” and more “reporters with better gear,” which feels like the only way this transition avoids an industry food fight in every courthouse hallway.From there, the discussion shifts into the practical, lawyer-facing side: LegalVisor as a “virtual second chair.” JP describes it as distinct from the official transcript, a real-time layer built to surface insights, track progress, and support strategy while the deposition is happening. Matan adds the design story, discovery work, shadowing, and interviews to build for what second chairs are already doing, hunting inconsistencies, chasing exhibits, and keeping the outline on track. A key theme: the transcript is not going away, because lawyers still rely on it for clients, remote teammates, and quick backtracking, but the value climbs when the transcript turns into a live workspace with search, references, and outline coverage in front of you while testimony unfolds.Accuracy and trust show up as recurring guardrails. Greg pokes at the “99 percent accurate” claims floating around the market, and Matan makes the point every litigator appreciates, the missing one percent contains the word that flips meaning. Verbit’s “human in the loop” posture and its Captivate approach focus on pushing accuracy toward the level legal settings require, including case-specific preparation by extracting names and terms from documents to tune recognition in context. The episode also tackles confidentiality head-on, with JP drawing a hard line: Verbit does not use client data to train generative models, and they keep business pipelines separate across verticals.Finally, the crystal ball question lands where courts love to resist, changing the definition of “the record.” Marlene asks whether the future record becomes searchable, AI-tagged video rather than text-first transcripts. JP says not soon, pointing to centuries of text-based infrastructure and the slow grind of institutional acceptance. Matan calls the shift inevitable, arriving in pieces, feature by feature, so the system evolves without pretending it is swapping the engine mid-flight. Along the way, there are glimpses of what comes next, including experiments borrowing media tech, such as visual description to interpret behavior cues in video. The big takeaway feels simple: the record stays sacred, but the work around it no longer needs to stay stuck.Listen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Jennifer McIver, Associate Director of Legal Operations at Wolters Kluwer ELM Solutions, shares her journey from aspiring forensic pathologist to legal ops leader. She emphasizes the importance of data visibility and effective dashboards over cluttered reports. Jennifer warns against overwhelming intake forms that lead to meaningless 'Other' categories. She also discusses the practical use of AI in enhancing productivity while tackling law firm pricing challenges and the value of strong partnerships through transparency and communication.

Join John Tertan, Founder of Narrative, as he delves into the complexities of law firm pricing and the messy data that plagues the industry. With a rich background in big law, John explains how his company aims to improve decision-making in law firms by grounding it in accurate data. He discusses the importance of substance over flashy tech, the pain points driving firms to seek help, and the future of pricing models. John's journey from associate to innovator brings valuable insights into legal tech's transformative potential.

Join Steve Matthews, founder of STEM Legal and Slaw.ca, Sarah Sutherland, legal tech expert from Parallax Information Consulting, and Jordan Furlong, insightful legal market analyst. They dive into two decades of legal publishing evolution, discussing the risks of relying on 'rented land' for professionals. The trio reflects on the fallout from Twitter's changes, the growing appeal of Substack, and the essential role of lawyers as truth-tellers in a disinformation era. They also explore how AI will reshape content creation, emphasizing the need for human verification in publishing.

Jiyun Hyo, Co-founder and CEO of Givance, transitions legal AI from simple text summaries to interactive, visualized evidence. He discusses the 'last ten percent gap,' where seemingly accurate outputs may contain critical errors that jeopardize legal trust. Jiyun highlights the significance of visual aids like Gantt and Sankey charts for clearer case presentations. He warns of confidence errors in AI, advocating for supervisory agents to ensure accuracy. Finally, he shares insights on law firms' need for visual literacy to leverage Givance's innovative tools effectively.

Kyle Poe, an executive at Legora, shares insights on their recent funding and the innovative Portal product designed for client collaboration in legal workflows. He emphasizes the importance of client engagement and quick turnarounds. Zena Applebaum from Harbor discusses their acquisition of Encore Technologies, enhancing training and enablement of AI in legal settings. Both guests highlight shifting from task-level automation to comprehensive workflow efficiencies, ensuring firms can adapt to the rapid advancements in legal tech.

Cas Laskowski, Head of Research at the University of Arizona College of Law and co-founder of the Future of Law Libraries initiative, joins Kris Niedringhaus, Associate Dean at the University of South Carolina School of Law Library. They discuss how librarians can transition from passive observers to active leaders in AI integration within legal practice. Major topics include the impact of ChatGPT, proposals for centralized AI organizations, tiered training models for librarians, and the ethics of teaching law students to use AI responsibly.