The Geek In Review

This week, we welcome back Tom Martin, CEO of LawDroid, to discuss his widely read “AI Law Professor” column for Thomson Reuters and his five-level roadmap for legal AI. Martin explains that the framework was inspired by a leaked OpenAI memo and aims to give legal professionals a clearer picture of AI’s trajectory. The five levels range from basic chatbots to fully AI-run organizations, with intermediate stages such as reasoners, agents, and innovators. According to Martin, while we are still in the early stages, the release of GPT-5 and its reasoning capabilities has accelerated progress toward higher levels, especially in the development of autonomous agents.The conversation turns to the implications of GPT-5’s hybrid reasoning model, which combines inference with step-by-step reasoning to deliver more relevant answers. Martin sees this as a significant shift for the legal industry, moving beyond single-response chatbots toward sustained, goal-oriented AI. He predicts that while the technology for fully autonomous legal agents could be available within a year, widespread adoption in law firms and corporations will take closer to three years. However, with these advancements come ethical concerns. Martin outlines four principles for responsible AI agents: transparency, autonomy, reliability, and visibility, cautioning that AI’s knowledge is always bounded and potentially incomplete.Reflecting on the legal industry’s pace of change since their last discussion, Martin notes that while some firms are sprinting to adopt AI, others may already be too late to catch up. He warns that professional services organizations must actively integrate AI to remain competitive. The discussion explores the potential for tech giants or AI companies to acquire major legal information providers, and Martin argues that the future lies in blending software, consulting, and education into a unified service model. This integrated approach, he believes, will be necessary for survival in a market where AI is capable of generating solutions without traditional software development cycles.Beyond the legal tech roadmap, Martin shares insights from his teaching at Suffolk University Law School and his observations from producing the “Last Week in Legal AI” news series. He sees both opportunities and risks for the next generation of lawyers, particularly in acting as translators between AI systems and legal practice. The discussion touches on generational attitudes toward AI, with younger users showing both skepticism and heavy reliance on AI for personal and professional support. Martin also addresses societal concerns, from AI in mental health applications to job displacement, and stresses the importance of curating AI outputs with human judgment.The episode wraps with Martin’s update on the American Legal Technology Awards, set for October 15 at Suffolk University Law School in Boston, which he describes as “the Oscars of legal tech.” When asked about the biggest challenge for the next few years, Martin points to the uncertainty of where professionals will fit in a rapidly shifting world. He envisions a possible new model that combines service, education, and software to deliver legal help at scale, but stresses that no one knows exactly how the future will unfold. His hope is that the AI-driven abundance ahead will be shared broadly, without excluding people from its benefits.Links:Keep up with Tom's podcast and latest thoughts on the law and innovation at: lawdroidmanifesto.comNab some tickets to this year's Oscars of Legal Innovation at: americanlegaltechnology.comListen on mobile platforms:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[Special Thanks to ⁠Legal Technology Hub⁠ for their sponsoring this episode.] Blue Sky: ⁠⁠@geeklawblog.com⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@marlgeb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Email: geekinreviewpodcast@gmail.comMusic: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jerry David DeCicca⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Ken Crutchfield, founder of Spring Forward Consulting, shares insights from his extensive background with legal information vendors. He likens today's AI boom in law to the chaotic American Industrial Revolution, highlighting the lack of regulation amidst hype and overinvestment. Ken discusses the need for law firms to rethink adoption strategies, balancing expectations with startups' limitations, and emphasizes the importance of 'Return on Experience' to maximize tech use. He calls for leadership engagement to navigate this evolving landscape effectively.

Christian Geyer, founder and CEO of ACTFORE, has an intriguing background that spans military intelligence and carpentry. He shares his unique career journey from handling top-secret data in the Navy to building AI-driven solutions for cybersecurity. The conversation highlights the challenges faced during COVID-19, the rapid evolution of his startup from a closet, and how automation reshapes data breach management. Geyer also discusses the importance of balancing human skills with tech solutions and the complexities of data security in a rapidly changing landscape.

Max Junestrand, CEO of Legora, and Ilona Loginova, Director of Practice Innovation at Cleary Gottlieb, discuss their transformative partnership in legal tech. They explore how AI is revolutionizing legal workflows, emphasizing collaboration and adaptability. Max highlights Legora’s suite of tools, while Ilona shares Cleary's dual approach combining in-house innovations and external partnerships. The duo envisions a future where AI acts as a co-worker, fostering a more interconnected and agile legal industry. This shift marks a new era in how legal teams operate.

Matthew Dickinson, CEO and founder of Vable, shares insights on the legal industry's transformation due to generative AI. He discusses the shift from information overload to personalized, actionable insights that integrate seamlessly into lawyers' workflows. Matthew emphasizes the ethical considerations surrounding AI use, outlining four pillars: trust, transparency, accuracy, and inclusion. The conversation also touches on how law firms can leverage advanced technology for client engagement while maintaining the essential human element in decision-making.

Trevor Quick, Strategic Business Development lead at Harvey.ai, shares insights into the game-changing evolution of the company in legal tech. He discusses the impressive $300 million Series E funding and how Harvey.ai's integration with LexisNexis is streamlining legal research. Trevor highlights the importance of collaboration between legal experts and AI engineers and how tailored solutions are transforming workflows for lawyers. He also touches on Harvey's expansion into new sectors like tax and accounting, showcasing innovative applications for legal tech.

Avaneesh Marwaha, CEO of Litera, shares his insights on steering a legal tech company through the AI boom. He discusses the critical shift from acquisition-driven growth to fostering in-house AI innovation. Avaneesh highlights the challenge of 'adoption fatigue' among law firms overwhelmed by numerous AI tools. He emphasizes the need for a cultural transformation in legal workplaces, advocating for meaningful AI integration that boosts efficiency and decision-making while maintaining human oversight in the evolving landscape of legal technology.

Otto von Zastrow, founder and CEO of MidPage.AI, shares his innovative journey transforming legal research. He discusses the launch of MidPage.AI, designed to streamline case law interaction with smarter search tools and an intuitive UI. Otto reveals their unique Proposition Search feature, aimed at solving the 'needle-in-a-haystack' problem. He also touches on the challenges of competing against giants like Lexis and Westlaw, emphasizing how AI can empower new entrants in the legal tech arena.

In this unique discussion, ChatGPT Voice—an AI model skilled in legal tech insights—takes center stage. It highlights the transformative shift towards agentic AI tools in legal workflows, reshaping service delivery and access to justice. The conversation touches on innovative pricing models and the integration of AI in core legal tasks like contract review. Notably, the importance of human oversight is emphasized to maintain trust as technology evolves. Insights from industry leaders also underscore the balance of ethics and efficiency in the legal field.

Cornell Winston, the current President of the American Association of Law Libraries, and President-Elect Jenny Silbiger, discuss the future of legal information in a rapidly changing world. They emphasize the importance of transparency and active member involvement in navigating challenges faced by legal advocates. The duo highlights the ongoing advocacy efforts despite staffing gaps and the need for reliable information amidst technological advancements. The excitement builds for the upcoming AALL Conference in Portland, where opportunities for networking and learning await.