Today’s conversation is with Matthew McLennan, head of the Global Value team and a portfolio manager of the Global Value, International Value, US Value and Gold strategies at First Eagle Investment Management, where host Tano Santos also works as a Senior Advisor.  Matt is interested in the field of education, and he is a trustee of the Trinity School in New York City. He serves as co-chair of the Board of Dean’s Advisors of the Harvard School of Public Health and as a board member of the University of Queensland in the United States of America. He is also a trustee of the Board of Directors for the Library of America. After sparking his interest in investing in boarding school, Matt went on to study at the University of Queensland where he was given a unique opportunity to take part in the management of a $10 billion pool of capital at the Queensland Investment Corporation. This was to be the first of many successful career moves as that experience positioned him perfectly to join the Goldman Sachs team in Sydney. After rising through the ranks at Goldman Sachs, Matt joined First Eagle in the heart of the global financial crisis and where he once again proved the importance of fundamentals, selectivity, and patience. On this episode, Matt and I talk about what sparked his interest in investing, why learning how to think is more valuable than specific finance theory, his investment approach, the role of temperament in investing, his career at Goldman Sachs, how joining First Eagle during the global financial crisis ended up being a blessing in disguise, why you shouldn’t try to predict market activity, and so much more!   Key Topics: Why theFirst Eagle Investment Management Foundation Scholarship was created (3:09) How the First Eagle fellowship will benefit the recipient and the firm (4:07) Matt’s early life growing up in a small town in Australia (6:04) Looking at his parent’s land as a metaphor for the power of selectivity and patience (7:08) How a boarding school investment club sparked Matt’s interest in investing (7:40) Matt’s opportunity to work in asset management for a large capital pool (9:23) Why learning how to think was more valuable to Matt than specific finance theory (10:33) How the state of the markets in the 80s provided an interesting environmental backdrop for Matt during his studies (11:34) How working with the Queensland Investment Corporation helped to shape Matt’s investment philosophy later in life (12:51) Matt’s investment approach and the role of temperament (14:18) Leaving the backyard to join Goldman Sachs (16:12) The role of mentors at Goldman Sachs in developing Matt as a value investor (17:14) Why you need to consider the two important assets missing from the balance sheet (17:54) How the market’s perspective on value investing changed during Matt’s career at Goldman Sachs (20:00) Why the late 90s was a difficult time to be a value investor (21:33) The reason that joining First Eagle was appealing for Matt (23:43) How joining First Eagle during the global financial crisis ended up being a blessing in disguise (26:54) Why instead of trying to predict market activity you should take advantage of markets after the fact (29:20) Matt’s perspective on measuring growth (32:06) How Matt identifies potential investment ideas (34:54) Why Matt invests in businesses with scarce intangible assets (35:51) The challenge you face when buying companies in competitive industries (36:46) The role of specialized knowledge in investment analysis (38:53) Why First Eagle reinforces a culture where continuous learning is valued (40:47) How First Eagle decided on hedging with a real asset (43:02) The usefulness of gold as a hedge in comparison to other commodities (45:12) Matt’s views on the current unusual state of the markets (48:51) The right portfolio response to the current state of the markets (53:47) Why Matt attributes a lot of the success of passive investing to the poor approach taken by some active managers (58:04) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: First Eagle Investment Management First Eagle Investment Management Foundation Scholarship Tanya Kostrinsky, the inaugural recipient of the First Eagle Investment Management Foundation scholarship Bruce C. N. Greenwald’s Book | Value Investing: From Graham to Buffett and Beyond The Columbia Student Investment Management Association (CSIMA) Conference Goldman Sachs Jean-Marie Eveillard, Senior Advisor to the First Eagle Investment Management Global Value team Value Investing with Legends | Taking a Top-Down Approach to Value Investing with Jean-Marie Eveillard Value Investing with Legends | Looking For More For Less with Leon Cooperman Bill White, former Chairman of the Economic and Development Review Committee at the OECD   Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Today’s conversation is with Joel Greenblatt, Founder and Managing Partner of Gotham Asset Management. Since founding Gotham in 1985, Joel and his partner Robert Goldstein have developed the firm into a large asset management company, well beyond the traditional hedge fund model and offering mutual fund products for the retail investor. Throughout his career, Joel has been a very successful adjunct professor here at Columbia Business School and has also published several successful books. Growing up, Joel intuitively learned about business from his father, a shoe manufacturer. From these dinner table lessons, his biggest takeaway was the idea that stocks are not simply pieces of paper that bounce around and to remember you own a piece of a business. After completing his MBA at Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, Joel started his investment career and quickly progressed from analyst to partner, and soon started Gotham where he has successfully bridged theory and practice for over 30 years. On this episode, Joel and I talk about his introduction to Ben Graham and value investing, why he switched from law school to a career in the investment world, his early role in risk arbitrage, why he decided to start his firm, how he turned a tough negotiation with Mike Milken into a win for Gotham, why he advocates for a value-based approach to investing, and so much more!   Key Topics: What Joel learned from his father about business (2:46) How Joel developed his core perspective on investing (3:13) Why Ben Graham’s stock-picking rules resonated with Joel (4:35) How Joel ended up writing an article for the Journal of Portfolio Management while a student at Wharton (5:51) How trading options at Bear Stearns helped Joel realize he wanted to pursue an investment-related career (7:23) Joel’s experience as the only analyst at a startup hedge fund (7:58) Why Joel’s early role in risk arbitrage was a good foundation for his Special Situations course at the Heilbrunn Center (9:28) The lucky situation Joel found himself in when he went to Wall Street (10:51) Why Joel decided to start his firm (12:26) Joel’s tough negotiation with Mike Milken (13:17) The influences that shaped Joel’s initial investment approach at Gotham (15:01) How Joel succeeds without specializing (19:09) The advantage of investing off the beating path (19:41) Why Joel decided to become an author (23:29) How writing and teaching have helped Joel become a better investor (24:23) Why it returned the outside capital from Gotham (25:38) Joel’s investment philosophy (28:02) Joel’s career-long rebellion against the efficient market hypothesis and portfolio management theory (28:49) The fascinating results from Joel’s benevolent brokerage firm (35:11) Why the strategy from The Little Book That Still Beats the Market can be difficult readers to implement (37:48) Why Joel advocates for a valuation-based approach to investing (42:14) The prudent approach most people should take when investing in the market (48:22) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode: Gotham Asset Management Joel Greenblatt’s Books: The Little Book That Still Beats the Market The Big Secret for the Small Investor - A New Route to Long-Term Investment Success You Can Be a Stock Market Genius: Uncover the Secret Hiding Places of Stock Market Profits Joel Greenblatt’s Journal of Portfolio Management Article | How the small investor can beat the market Malcolm Gladwell’s Book | Outliers: The Story of Success Mike Milken, Financier Benjamin Graham and David L. Dodd’s Book | Security Analysis Benjamin Graham’s Book | The Intelligent Investor Warren Buffet’s Shareholder Letters John Train’s Books David Dreman’s Books Joel Greenblatt’s Morningstar Paper | Adding Your Two Cents May Cost a Lot Over the Long Term Cliff Asness, Managing and Founding Principal of AQR Capital Managements   Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

of Omega Advisors. After getting his MBA from Columbia Business School, Leon joined Goldman Sachs as a Junior Analyst and ultimately built up Goldman Sachs' asset management division, GSAM. In 1991 Leon decided to follow his passion for money management and started his hedge fund, Omega Advisors, which became a family office in 2018. Leon is a member of The Giving Pledge and he takes great pleasure in giving back to those organizations and institutions that made a difference in his life.  From humble beginnings, Leon benefitted greatly from the public education system while attending high school and college in the Bronx. Intuition has always played an important role in Leon’s life. After years of hard work to fulfill his goal of becoming a dentist, he followed that intuition and dropped out of dental school after just 8 days, forfeiting a full year of tuition and expenses. That misstep into dentistry put Leon on the path that would lead to Columbia Business School and a job at Goldman Sachs right after graduation, which he credits with changing the trajectory of his life.  On this episode, Leon and I talk about how Leon went from dreams of dentistry to a successful career in the investment world, Leon’s approach to value investing, Leon’s career path at Goldman Sachs, why Leon founded Omega Advisors, how politics affects policy, Leon’s take on the current state of the financial markets, Leon’s approach to philanthropy, and so much more!   Key Topics: The two factors to which Leon attributes his success (2:56) Why Leon wrote a letter to President Obama (3:12) How getting an MBA from Columbia Business School changed the trajectory of Leon’s life (4:22) Why Leon dropped out of dental school (4:36) The key role intuition played from early in Leon’s life (6:05) How Leon ended up working at Goldman Sachs right after graduating (6:56) Leon’s introduction to value investing at Columbia Business School (8:12) Leon’s career at Goldman from Junior Analyst to Partner (9:36) The benefits of the close working relationship between sales, trading, and research at Goldman (11:08) The dual roles Leon had to play in the 70s (11:42) Leon’s favorite aspect of doing investment research (12:37) Why Leon keeps up to date with the micro- and macro-activities of the business world (13:44) The origin of Goldman Sachs Asset Management (14:42) The inception of Omega Advisors Hedge Fund and its evolution into a family office (16:50) Why Leon decided to retire (18:05) What Leon told Warren Buffett about The Giving Pledge (18:48) Why Leon decided to leave Goldman Sachs (19:16) How Leon’s brush with the S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) positively impacted him (21:18) Leon’s investment strategy when he started Omega Advisors (22:24) The importance of surrounding yourself with knowledgeable people (23:06) How regulatory changes have driven up the cost of business (24:01) Why Leon attributes value orientation as the driver behind the success of Omega Advisors (25:35) Leon’s current investment strategy (26:02) Leon’s perspective on the current state of the financial markets (27:33) Why we should be worried about the amount of debt currently being created in the economy (29:46) What Leon considers to be a “normal” state for the markets (31:07) How government policy has contributed to the current income disparity (33:14) The problem with wealth tax (34:31) Why Leon believes America’s commitment to capitalism is so important (37:55) How the current state of politics is affecting the creation of sensible policy (39:42) The four things you can do with money (42:37) Leon’s philanthropic endeavors (43:54) And much more!    Mentioned in this Episode: The Giving Pledge Open Letter To The President Of The United States Of America from Leon Cooperman The Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans Goldman Sachs Benjamin Graham and David Dodd’s Book | Security Analysis Cooperman College Scholars  The Cooperman Family Fund for a Jewish Future Lehman College   Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Today’s conversation is with Ross Glotzbach, the CEO and Head of Research at one of the great names in value investing, Southeastern Asset Management, the firm founded by Mason Hawkins over 40 years ago. Ross is also the co-portfolio manager on Longleaf Partners, Small-Cap and Global Funds, as well as the Longleaf Partners Global UCITS Fund. Before joining Southeastern in 2004, he was a Corporate Finance Analyst at Stephens, Inc. after graduating from Princeton University.  From a young age, Ross was fascinated with investing in businesses where he could turn 50 cents into $1. By the time he was starting college, Ross was introduced to the concept of value investing and got the opportunity to manage real money of his own, which he attributes as a key step on his path to becoming a value investor. Not one to take the passive route, Ross set out to learn as much about value investing as he could and determine whether it was the right strategy for him. After multiple internships and valuable experience working at Stephens, Ross joined Southeastern with their culture of “true value investors”. On this episode, Ross and I talk about his introduction to value investing, why he values his time at Stephens so much, his experience as an analyst at Southeastern, what it means to be Head of Research, why he places so much importance on having conversations with management, the engaged approach to investing, and so much more!   Key Topics: Ross’s early interest in finding ways to buy $1 for 50 cents (2:56) How Ross started out with value investing (3:56) Ross’s experiences exploring outside of the value investment strategy (6:59) What Ross learned while working at Stephens (9:50) Ross’s first years as an analyst at Southeastern (11:29) Why you must have a master list of companies you’d love to own (13:44) Ross’s path from Junior Analyst to Head of Research (15:33) The day-to-day responsibilities of Ross’s role as Head of Research (16:11) Why Southeastern prefers their analysts to be generalists (18:14) How Southeastern’s multi-country research team stays coordinated (19:18) Ross’s strategy for finding good investment ideas in the small-cap sector (21:00) The opportunities traditional value investors often miss by ignoring conversations management (23:09) Ross’s criteria for assessing business quality (26:13) How Ross assesses barriers to entry of potential investments (27:28) Southeastern’s qualitative strategy for handling the disruption of industries by technology (29:11) Why industry disruption can give value investors a competitive advantage (31:10) Southeastern’s approach to valuation (33:04) How Southeastern manages diversification and risk (36:52) The engaged approach for balancing active and passive investment (39:42) The leadership transition with Mason Hawkins (45:46) Ross’s perspective on value underperforming relative to growth (49:36) What Ross thinks about the growth of the passive investment market (51:39) How private equity investing has changed in recent years (54:41) And much more!    Mentioned in this Episode:  Southeastern Asset Management Longleaf Partners Funds Benjamin Graham’s Book | The Intelligent Investor Stephens, Inc. Mason Hawkins, Chairman and Principal, Southeastern Asset Management Staley Cates, Vice-Chairman and Principal, Southeastern Asset Management    Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Today’s conversation is with Jennifer Wallace, a wonderful expositor to the main ideas of value investing, but also a very deep thinker when it comes to the interaction of value investing and the market at large. Jenny is the co-founder of Summit Street Capital Management, where she is the portfolio manager of the US equity value fund. She's also a Columbian through and through as she holds a BA from Columbia College and an MBA from Columbia Business School. Jenny is a member of the advisory board of the Heilbrunn Center for Graham & Dodd Investing and a great mentor to me. While working towards her MBA, Jenny joined the first cohort of students to take the value investing class offered by Bruce Greenwald. After being introduced to value investing, it became clear to Jenny that to be successful she needed to develop a skill set that would allow her to assess businesses, independent of conventional wisdom. To gain that perspective, she first went to work for McKinsey & Company. After leaving McKinsey, Jenny worked alongside investing legend Bob Bruce, before ultimately co-founding her firm. On this episode, Jenny and I discuss her studies at Columbia Business School as a student in the first cohort of the value investing class, her early career with value investing legends, how Summit Street was started, how Jenny developed her investment philosophy, her approach to data analysis, the impact of the growth of the passive investing industry on active managers, and so much more!    Key Topics:  The events program for the Heilbrunn Center during the 2019/2020 academic year (1:03) Why you should sign up for the center’s email newsletter (6:15) Jenny’s experience as a student in the first cohort of the value investing class (8:26) The structure of the first value investing class (10:20) Why Jenny decided to work for McKinsey instead of in investing (11:33) How Jenny’s background in psychology helps her as a value investor (12:56) The impact of Jenny’s time at McKinsey (13:28) Summit Street’s investment philosophy (15:42) How business’ operational efficiency contributes to investors’ downside projection (16:37) Bob Bruce’s pitch to Jenny (17:23) The importance of being able to read financials and let the numbers tell you a story (19:20) Bob Bruce’s advice on building up your knowledge about select companies (21:12) The opportunities and crises in the late 1990s market (22:25) The parallels between the investment landscape of the 1990s and now (24:19) The qualities that Jenny believes sets value investors apart from others (25:37) Why Jenny thinks being a good value investor starts with a certain type of person (27:23) How Summit Street was launched (28:32) The evolving focus of Summit Street (29:13) Jenny’s approach to data analysis and searching for investment ideas (32:47) Jenny’s perspective on the changing significance of classic value metrics (34:41) How Jenny use cash flow as a valuation metric to avoid value traps (37:29) Why you should focus on the numbers in assessing the management team of a potential investment (42:26) “Every stock that we buy has something working against it” (44:23) Why Jenny considers leverage and return on invested capital as critical quality measurements (46:17) Summit Street’s qualitative and quantitative valuation methodology (49:25) Summit Street’s research and evaluation process for potential investments (52:53) Why models are so useful for testing your assumptions (55:36) Jenny’s approach to exiting a position (58:59) The importance of using guardrails to force investment discipline (1:02:35) Jenny’s opinion on the growth of passive investing and its effect on the practice of value investing (1:05:29) Why Jenny believes that the fee race to the bottom for exchange-traded fund (ETF) products are not necessarily good for investors (1:09:25) The façade of diversity being offered by ETFs (1:10:45) The opportunities created by ETFs for active managers by ETFs (1:16:11) And much more!    Mentioned in this Episode: Meredith Trivedi, Managing Director, Heilbrunn Center for Graham and Dodd Investing The Heilbrunn Center for Graham & Dodd Investing Events Summit Street Capital Management Benjamin Graham and David L. Dodd’s Book | Security Analysis Benjamin Graham’s Book | The Intelligent Investor    Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Today’s conversation is with Tom Russo, the master of consumer brand investing, and two of our best students, Jeffrey Johnson and Michael Allison. We’re talking about the 5x5x5 Student Investment Fund and having a deep discussion about some of the specific stocks in the portfolio. The concept for the 5x5x5 fund came out of Tom’s concern that conventional investment funds for students offered limited learning potential due to their short-term nature and was made possible by a generous gift given by him and his wife, Georgina. The 5x5x5 fund is run by the students of the Value Investing course at Columbia Business School, with ideas being submitted by the students each year. Students then have the opportunity to connect value-oriented investment theories to real-world practice as they participate in the management of the fund. Importantly, they are also connected with alumni and are afforded valuable networking opportunities. At the end of five years, the inflation-adjusted original amount is invested back into the fund and any other gains will be used to support scholarships for traditionally under-represented members of the class. On this episode, Tom, Jeff, Mike, and I discuss how the 5x5x5 Student Investment Fund got started, how this fund differs from student funds at other schools, what goes into the investment decisions, how participation in the fund benefits students, why some of this year’s investments were selected, and so much more!   Key Topics: The 5x5x5 nature of the student value investing fund (2:24) The multiple benefits to be derived from the fund (3:29) How 5x5x5 will become self-funding (4:01) The investment selection process (4:34) Why Tom is proud of the tough questions raised by students (5:28) Why it’s so important to monitor how your original thesis is playing out (5:46) Some of the notable investments in the history of the portfolio (6:07) How student participation in the fund can lead to important networking opportunities (6:50) A deep dive into some of the companies in the fund (8:30) Why Tom is excited about the poor performance of the international stocks in the portfolio (11:01) The five stocks that made it into the portfolio this year (13:15) Jeff’s pitch for adding Booking Holdings to the 5x5x5 portfolio (14:09) The business model and competitive advantages of Booking Holdings (15:19) How Booking Holdings differentiates itself from Expedia (19:24) What Booking Holdings is investing its free cash flow into (21:45) Why Jeff chose to pitch Booking Holdings (22:57) Jeff’s analysis of Booking Holdings’ valuation (24:53) What you can learn by comparing where an industry is in relation to GDP (26:08) The growth potential of Booking Holdings’ Airbnb-type listings (30:24) Mike’s pitch for adding Becle, S.A.B. de C.V. (“Cuervo”) to the 5x5x5 portfolio (31:56) How the limited supply of blue agave is impacting Cuervo’s valuation (33:16) The governance, ownership structure and long-term growth potential of Cuervo (37:53) Why the tequila industry is experiencing such consistent growth (39:33) Mike’s analysis of Cuervo’s valuation (44:39) The story behind the acquisition of Bushmills whiskey (48:02) Winter Li’s pitch for adding Rollins to the 5x5x5 portfolio (51:41) Rollins’ competitive advantages (52:56) Winter’s analysis of Rollins’ valuation (53:58) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: 5x5x5 Student Investment Fund Jeffrey Johnson’s Pitch of Booking Holdings Michael Allison’s Pitch of Cuervo Winter Li’s Pitch of Rollins Louisa Serene Schneider’s interviews of Warren Buffett Booking Holdings Inc Becle, S.A.B. de C.V. Bushmills   Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Today’s conversation is with international value investor, Jean-Marie Eveillard. As portfolio manager of the Société Générale International Fund, later becoming the First Eagle Global Fund, where he returned an annualized 15% for over 25 years. In 2001, Jean-Marie and co-manager Charles de Vaulx were named Morningstar International Stock Fund Managers of the Year and later in 2003, Jean-Marie was chosen as one of the two inaugural awardees of the Morningstar Fund Manager Lifetime Achievement Award. Shortly after starting as an analyst with Société Générale, Jean-Marie became exposed to Ben Graham and the principles of value investing. Despite his passion and insights, it was many years before he was given the position of portfolio manager and finally able to put those principles to work. During his tenure as portfolio manager, Jean-Marie has been at the helm during some of the most challenging times for value investors. His ability to adapt his investment approach to the changing conditions has been key in his ability to produce above average results.  On this episode, Jean-Marie and I talk about his changing roles over his years at Société Générale and then First Eagle, why he was so intrigued by Ben Grahams and Warren Buffet’s investment approaches, the lessons he learned about client management while his fund was underperforming compared to market, and so much more!   Key Topics: How one good course experience started Jean-Marie on the path to a career in the investment world (2:32) Jean-Marie’s role at Société Générale’s New York branch (5:45) Jean-Marie’s first introduction to Ben Graham (6:44) Why Ben Graham’s writings on investing helped Jean-Marie find his own investment approach (7:07) The changing perspectives on frameworks in academic finance in the 1970s (8:45) Jean-Marie’s disappointing return to the Société Générale head office in Paris (12:11) How Jean-Marie finally got the opportunity to manage a fund himself (14:25) The process Jean-Marie used to identify and value potential investments when he took over his first fund (17:54) Why the 1970s and 1980s were particularly good periods to take a traditional value investing approach (19:59) The differences between the traditional Ben Graham approach and the Munger-Buffet approach (21:42) Why Jean-Marie prefers the Munger-Buffet approach to value investing (22:21) The lesson Jean-Marie learned after buying Lindt & Sprüngli stock (23:39) One of the drawbacks with holding overvalued stocks under the Munger-Buffet approach (26:59) Why humility is important for a successful money management career (28:50) The client management mistake Jean-Marie made in the late 1990s (31:49) The growth of the First Eagle Global Fund from $15 million to $6 billion between 1987 and 1997 (32:42) Jean-Marie’s perspective on investing in tech stocks (35:56) The impact of the bursting of the NASDAQ on the fund (40:06) Why Jean-Marie’s move to advisor of the fund was so short-lived (41:22) How the fund benefitted from its holdings in the Bank for International Settlements (42:40) Why Jean-Marie believes that value investors should pay closer attention to the macro-economic environment (47:31) The challenges posed to balance sheet-focused investors by the growth of the service-based economy (52:22) Why Jean-Marie’s first step in assessing a company is to closely review the accounting numbers (55:37) The changing future of value investing (58:17) And much more!   Mentioned in this Episode:  Jean-Marie Eveillard’s Book | Value Investing Makes Sense First Eagle Investment Management First Eagle Global Fund Benjamin Graham and David L. Dodd’s Book | Security Analysis Benjamin Graham’s Book | The Intelligent Investor William White’s April 2006 Paper | Is Price Stability Enough? Sidney Homer and Richard Sylla’s Book | A History of Interest Rates   Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Today’s conversation is with the Chairman of Davis Advisors, Christopher Davis. Christopher oversees approximately $30 billion of client assets worldwide. Christopher currently serves as CEO and Portfolio Manager and Davis Advisors continues to be recognized as     a leading independent investment management firm and one which wholeheartedly embodies the basic principles of value investing. Christopher received an early education from his father and grandfather who shared their passion and enthusiasm for investing and business with the family but when it came time to start university, he decided to go in a completely different direction. From veterinary school to seminary, Christopher took the long way around before settling into a career in investing. From his first job at the State Street Bank, Christopher quickly found his own passion and has thrived in the field for the past 30 years. On this episode, Christopher and I talk about the impact his family had on him on a young age, the importance of finding the right investing style for you, why he placed so much importance on developing a strong accounting foundation, why Wall Street needs to embrace globalization, his approach to assessing competitive advantage, and so much more!   Key Topics: How Christopher was impacted from an early age by his father and grandfather’s natural curiosity and passion for business (2:13) Why Christopher believes a lot of people get turned off of the investment business (3:53) Why curiosity is key in building knowledge and experience (4:46) The importance of finding the investment style that resonates with you (5:26) The winding path Christopher took before starting his career in investing (6:58) Why Christopher decided that working at a bank was the best first step into the investing profession (8:58) What Christopher learned as an early employee of Tanaka Capital Management during the S&L crisis (10:24) Christopher’s decision to switch his focus to insurance and financial services (11:00) The particular advantage in the insurance industry for investors who can gain insight from the accounting choices companies make (12:57) The management culture Christopher looks for in insurance companies (14:07) The often-overlooked value of business model stability in the financial services industry (15:10) Christopher’s transition to Davis Advisors and the joining of the family firms (18:42) From breaking the third-generation stigma to leading the firm (20:05) How investing with the idea of owner earnings became a core philosophy at Davis Advisors (23:08) The drawbacks of rules-based accounting systems versus principles-based accounting systems (27:34) Why Christopher believes we're in a period of extreme disconnect between what financial statements show and the underlying reality of many businesses (28:27) The importance of correctly assessing a business’s competitive advantages (30:55) Christopher’s approach to assessing the durability of a competitive advantage (31:50) How technology has created advantages of scale in the financial services industry (38:33) Two big trends Christopher expects to play out within the next 20 years (39:54) Why the distinctions of domestic, international and emerging markets are becoming less relevant today (41:22) Finding investment opportunities where there’s a disconnect between perception and reality (42:19) The importance of recognizing opportunities for investors in foreign markets (43:35) Christopher’s approach to business valuation (51:27) How Christopher’s firm views and evaluates a business’s management (53:15) What you can learn from studying a business’s alumni (55:13) Why Christopher is such a strong advocate for active management (59:38) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: Christopher Davis’ Firm | Davis Advisors Davis New York Venture Fund Davis Financial Fund Davis Global Fund Graham Tanaka, President of Tanaka Capital Management Kent Daniel and Tobias Moskowitz’s Article | Momentum Crashes Thanks for Listening!  Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu.   Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Today’s conversation is with investor David Abrams, who was described by the Wall Street Journal as a “one man wealth machine.” David is the CEO and Portfolio Manager of Abrams Capital, an investment firm that he founded in 1999. Abrams Capital is unlevered and long-term oriented and currently holds over $9 billion in assets under management. David is notoriously private and is not keen on interviews and appearances so I’m especially grateful to him for sharing with us today.  After graduating with a BA in History from the University of Pennsylvania, David made an unplanned entrance into a career in investing. It was then that he discovered his love for the field and he went on to work with another value investing legend, Seth Klarman of the Baupost Group, before starting his own firm. David is a member of the Board of Trustees of Berklee College of Music and an overseer of the College of Arts and Sciences at the University of Pennsylvania. On this episode, David and I discuss how his experience working on merger and risk arbitrage transactions led to his decision to join the Baupost Group, what it was like to start Abrams Capital in the midst of economic uncertainty, why David prefers a generalist approach, the importance of the fundamentals in assessing investment opportunities, and so much more!  Key Topics: How David got into investing after completing a BA in History (2:58) David’s experience with his first job in the investment world (3:45) David’s decision to join The Baupost Group and expand his expertise beyond arbitrage (7:01) Why David took a year off after leaving The Baupost Group (9:37) What it was like to start Abrams Capital on the heels of the stock market crash in 1998 (11:12) Why David wanted to have a broad mandate for Abrams Capital (12:54) The key factors to examine when analyzing the fundamental economics of a potential investment opportunity (14:11) The importance of forming judgments and using qualitative analysis rather than solely relying on the numbers (16:17) How the current market tolerance for risk and uncertainty has changed compared to 20-30 years ago (18:01) The increasing value of human and intellectual capital (19:42) Why an increased risk appetite and tolerance for failure is beneficial for the markets (20:26) The advantages and disadvantages of being a generalist (21:18) Why you always need to consider the position of the other side of the market (22:32) The assessments David uses to determine the fundamental value of a company (24:13) The impact of the relentless forces of competition on investment decisions (26:37) How the presence of catalysts affects investment requirements (28:53) David’s approach to developing a successful relationship with a company’s management team (29:56) Why exiting investments isn’t always a straightforward process (34:32) How David develops his investment wish list (36:55) How traveling helps David’s keep a broad perspective and outlook on various industries (39:06) The relationship between conviction and position sizing for David (40:51) David’s approach to industry diversification, currency risk, and hedging (41:26) Why David made the decision not to use leverage in his portfolio (44:02) Does the state of the economy at large factor into David’s investment process? (45:44) David’s perspective on the future of value investing and the asset management industry (49:09) And much more! Mentioned in this Episode: David Abrams’ Firm | Abrams Capital Rob Copeland’s Wall Street Journal Article | Hedge-Fund World's One-Man Wealth Machine Seth Klarman, CEO of the Baupost Group    Thanks for Listening! Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at valueinvesting@gsb.columbia.edu. Follow the Heilbrunn Center on social media on Instagram, LinkedIn, and more!

Michael Mauboussin, Director of Research at BlueMountain Capital Management, discusses the importance of teaching value investing alongside psychology, cognitive diversity in decision-making, techniques to mitigate bias in investment processes, and the impact of machines on value investing.