Edgy Ideas

Show Notes Professor Susan Long and Dr. Simon Western's conversation takes us on a journey into the roots of the unconscious, tracing its lineage from early philosophical thought to contemporary psychoanalysis. Susan challenges the dominant view that confines the unconscious to an individual and pathological framework, arguing instead for a more expansive understanding—one that is inherently social, cultural, and even ecological. She draws on thinkers like Schelling, whose work connects the unconscious with nature and spirit, suggesting that our inner depths are not isolated but enmeshed in the world around us. She critiques the ideological structures that shape how we perceive the unconscious, drawing on the Frankfurt School’s insights into culture and power. At the heart of this discussion is the notion that creativity—so often seen as an individual gift—actually emerges from the collective unconscious, offering both potential and peril. This conversation invites us to consider the ethical dimension of confronting the unconscious, urging us to move beyond mere self-awareness and towards a deeper responsibility—to ourselves, our communities, and the wider world. Key Reflections The unconscious has historical roots that predate Freud. Schelling's work links the unconscious to nature and spirit. The unconscious is not just individual but also social and cultural. Creativity emerges from the collective unconscious. The Frankfurt School critiques how ideologies embed in culture. Human beings can be both creative and destructive. Neuroscience offers insights into the emotional aspects of the unconscious. The bicameral mind theory suggests a collective consciousness. Facing uncomfortable truths is an ethical responsibility. Individuality should not overshadow our connection to the community. Keywords unconscious, psychoanalysis, Schelling, Freud, social dynamics, creativity, Frankfurt School, group mind, nature, ethical responsibility Brief Bio Professor Susan Long is PhD Co-Lead and Research Lead at NIODA and former Professor of Creative and Sustainable Organisation at RMIT University, Melbourne. She supervises doctoral candidates, teaches in global programs such as INSEAD’s Master of Coaching and Consulting (Singapore), and consults on leadership, organisational change, and executive coaching. A trained clinical psychologist and psychotherapist, Susan has a deep interest in the unconscious and its influence on individuals, groups, and organisations. She has served on advisory boards, including Comcare’s Centre of Excellence for Research into Mental Health at Work, and was the founding President of Group Relations Australia. She is also a past President of the International Society for the Psychoanalytic Study of Organisations (ISPSO), where she contributed to advancing psychoanalytic approaches to leadership and organisational life. Her latest book, The Evolution of the Unconscious: Exploring Persons, Groups, Nature and Spirit, traces the historical development of unconscious thought, from early philosophical ideas to contemporary psychoanalysis. She explores how the unconscious operates not only within individuals but also within social, ecological, and spiritual dimensions. Through this lens, she challenges reductionist views and offers a broader, interconnected understanding.

Show Notes In this conversation, Simon and Amitabh discuss the current state of the world characterized by a polycrisis, primarily driven by neoliberalism. They explore the implications of this crisis on civil society, the role of the left, and the importance of grassroots movements. The dialogue emphasizes the need for emotional engagement in advocacy and the potential for change through collective action and solidarity. Key Reflections We are facing a polycrisis that is a manifestation of neoliberalism. The current crisis is the biggest since World War II. Neoliberalism has shed its humane pretenses. The left has become too centrist and lacks radicalism. Grassroots movements are essential for systemic change. Civil society must focus on holding power accountable. Emotional engagement is crucial in advocacy work. Generational divides exist but are not the only factor in activism. International aid needs to be reimagined for effective collaboration. There is a growing quest for freedom and justice worldwide. Keywords polycrisis, neoliberalism, left politics, civil society, grassroots movements, international aid, activism, generational perspectives, emotional engagement, human dignity Brief Bio Amitabh Behar, Executive Director of Oxfam International, is a global civil society leader with decades of experience in human rights, economic inequalities, governance, and social justice. Previously CEO of Oxfam India, he has held leadership roles in CIVICUS, Navsarjan, and Yuva. He serves on several global boards, including the Global Fund for Community Foundation and the Norwegian Human Rights Fund. Before Oxfam, he was Executive Director of the National Foundation for India and co-chaired the Global Call to Action Against Poverty, a network of over 11,000 civil society organizations. His work focuses on democracy, philanthropy, and citizen participation.

Show Notes In this conversation, Anna Harvey discusses her integration of psychoanalysis and ecology in her work as a senior lecturer in social work. She emphasizes the importance of understanding child protection within a broader sociopolitical context and advocates for a public health approach to social work. Anna explores how ecological perspectives can inform systemic thinking and the interconnectedness of individuals within their environments. The discussion highlights the need to decenter the individual and recognize the symbiotic relationships that exist in both nature and society. In this conversation, Simon and Anna explore the significance of language in psychoanalysis, the transformative practice of composting as a metaphor for personal growth, and the interconnectedness of all living beings. They discuss the importance of symbiosis in nature, the need to re-enchant our lives with spirituality, and the reflections on what it means to live a good life in a society that often prioritizes superficial experiences over deep connections. Reflections The internal psychological world is shaped by external environmental factors. Ecology provides a lens to understand systemic interconnections. Diversity in ecosystems creates strength and resilience. Symbiosis is a fundamental aspect of life and ecology. Understanding our interconnectedness can reshape our approach to social issues.  Composting encourages a physical and spiritual engagement with our thoughts. We are small parts of a vast interconnected universe. Modern life often alienates us from our true selves. Experiences should be deep and meaningful, not superficial. We must engage with diverse perspectives to grow. Living a good life involves recognizing our place in the world. Keywords ecology, psychoanalysis,social work, systemic thinking, ecological crisis, psychosocial approach, permaculture, interconnectedness, public health, psychoanalysis, composting, interconnectedness, symbiosis, ecology, spirituality, good life, education, nature, holistic thinking Bio Anna Harvey is a senior lecturer at the Tavistock and Portman Trust, teaching on the professional doctorate in social work. With 27 years of experience in child protection and social care, she leads modules on reflexivity, institutional observation, and psychosocial interventions, integrating psychoanalytic and ecological perspectives. Her teaching emphasizes self-awareness, therapeutic relationships, and systemic thinking. She supervises doctoral students, focusing on marginalised voices in social work. As a consultant, she trains professionals in reflective supervision. Her awareness of the ecological crisis led to organizing a climate psychology conference and co-editing a special journal issue. She incorporates ecological metaphors into social work education, helping students understand complexity, adaptation, and systemic interconnections. Her research explores interconnection and hyper-individualism. Personally, she home-educates her son in ecology, evolution, and natural history, driven by a deep passion for the dynamic interplay between biotic and abiotic systems, shaping both social work and environmental awareness.  

Show Notes: In this provocative episode, Simon and Lauri dive into the disruptive potential of AI to reshape coaching as we know it. They challenge traditional coaching paradigms, exploring how systemic coaching can integrate with AI to amplify impact. The conversation takes a sharp turn into ethics, questioning the accountability of AI designers and the values underpinning these technologies. Simon and Lauri explore the triad of AI, human coaches and clients, and how they might work together to co-create powerful organisational outcomes. As they unpack these relationships, they reveal new ways of thinking about human-AI collaboration. Lauri also brings his reflective lens to the bigger picture: what does it mean to live a good life and build a good society in the age of rapid technological change? This episode inspires a fresh take on adaptability, co-creation, and the need for conscious design in an ever-shifting world. Key Reflections: AI coaching is evolving into a new category of coaching. There is a bifurcation in the coaching market between AI and human coaches. AI can engage with large populations cost-effectively. Human coaching focuses on relational and embodied experiences. AI coaching raises philosophical and ethical questions about existence and relationships. Systemic coaching can help organizations understand their complexities better. AI can facilitate conversations that map out social contexts in organizations. The relationship between AI and human coaches can create a virtuous loop. A humane narrative for AI is necessary to alleviate fears. Living a good life involves understanding one's role in systems and networks. Keywords: AI coaching, systemic coaching, ethics, human connection, technology, organizational change, coaching methodologies, coaching relationships, coaching philosophy, coaching and AI

Mishel McMahon, a proud Yorta Yorta woman and Senior Research Fellow, sheds light on the importance of First Nations worldviews in reconnecting with nature and our ancestors. She discusses how modern mindsets have fragmented our relationships, advocating for a more cyclical understanding of time. Mishel emphasizes relationality—recognizing all beings as interconnected—and shares insights on how these perspectives can enhance health practices. The conversation culminates in a call for re-enchantment, urging a return to the essence of community and collaboration.

Breaking Together In this conversation, Jem Bendel discusses his journey from a career in corporate sustainability to advocating for a radical shift in how we approach climate change and societal collapse. He reflects on his influential paper, 'Deep Adaptation,' which argues that the sustainability movement is no-longer appropriate and that we should prepare for societal collapse. Jem introduces his new framework, 'Breaking Together,' which emphasizes community resilience and eco-libertarianism as a path forward. He shares personal insights about his upbringing and how they shaped his worldview, ultimately advocating for a collective approach to lead localised change.  Takeaways The sustainability movement has largely failed to address the urgency of climate change. Deep Adaptation provides a framework for discussing societal collapse. Many people have been radicalized by the realization of impending collapse. Eco-libertarianism offers a path that contrasts with eco-authoritarianism. Community resilience is essential in the face of societal challenges. Personal experiences can deeply influence one's worldview and actions. A good life is about inquiry, creativity, and connection, not just longevity. We must reclaim control over our resources and communities. The dominant narratives in society can limit our understanding of what is possible. Collective action and community engagement are crucial for creating a better future. Bio Prof. Jem Bendell is Founder of the Deep Adaptation movement, an emeritus professor with the University of Cumbria and the co-Founder of the International Scholars’ Warning on Societal Disruption and Collapse. He worked for over 20 years in corporate sustainability, helping launch or develop many international initiatives. That led to his recognition as a Young Global Leader. His 2018 paper "Deep Adaptation" was downloaded over a million times and is widely credited with helping inspire the growth of the Extinction Rebellion movement. That marked a departure, whereby he concluded the field of sustainability had failed. His new book "Breaking Together" goes further by outlining a collapse-based political framework. Jem also co-hosts the short online course Leading Through Collapse: https://www.katie-carr.com/leadingthroughcollapse.

Psychoanalysis and Humanising the Workplace Gabriella Braun, a renowned consultant and author, delves into her fascinating journey, sharing her insights from her latest book, All that we are: Uncovering the Hidden Truths Behind Our Behaviour at Work. Gabriella discusses how psychoanalytic principles can provide deep insights into organizational dynamics and group behavior, influencing everything from leadership to team cohesion. Her emphasis on emotional awareness highlights its critical role in effective coaching, while she explores how vulnerability in professional environments can foster stronger connections and transform group interactions. Gabriella underscores the importance of humanizing the workplace, particularly in the face of rapid digitalization and societal change. She reflects on the interplay between personal and professional boundaries, noting how understanding these elements can contribute to healthier organizations. Gabriella also touches on societal issues, emphasizing the need for sensitivity and awareness in addressing them within organizations.The discussion centers on the broader theme of living a balanced, meaningful life, where understanding human desire and behavior, curiosity, and playfulness contribute not just to workplace success but to a more connected, compassionate society. Bio Gabriella Braun is the Director of Working Well, a specialist consultancy firm using psychoanalytic and systemic thinking to help leaders and teams. She has consulted to hundreds of clients including British Library, RADA, Tate, NHS Trusts, Schools, Colleges, University of Cambridge and University of London. She holds a masters's degree in Consulting to Organisations: Psychoanalytic Approaches; and was a Principal Consultant with the Tavistock Consultancy Service. She was on on Associate Faculty of the Dynamics of Consulting Program (in US), and has directed and held staff roles in numerous experiential workshops about leadership and team dynamics in UK and abroad. 

Kate Moger is the Global Director of Pledge for Change, an NGO representing a mutual commitment towards building a stronger aid ecosystem based on the principles of solidarity, humility, self-determination and equality. Kate shares her journey in the humanitarian sector and her vision for transforming it. With over two decades of experience in various leadership roles, Kate reflects on how she entered the field somewhat accidentally and how her perspective has evolved over time. Kate discusses the changing landscape of humanitarian work, from her early days as part of the "last of the salvationists" to her current role in driving radical change. She candidly shares her experiences in South Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, highlighting both the challenges and profound connections she found in these contexts. The conversation delves into the complexities of power dynamics, feminism, and decolonizing aid. Kate emphasizes the importance of intersectionality and understanding power imbalances in her approach to feminism and humanitarian work. She explains the origins and goals of Pledge for Change, an initiative aimed at transforming the humanitarian sector through equitable partnerships, authentic storytelling, and influencing wider change. Kate and Simon explore the tensions within the humanitarian system, questioning whether reform is possible or if a complete dismantling is necessary. They discuss the importance of nurturing emergent systems and leadership at the edges, while acknowledging the geopolitical complexities surrounding humanitarian work. The podcast concludes with Kate's reflections on what it means to live a good life and create a good society, drawing on the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of speaking truth to power with kindness. This conversation offers a thought-provoking look at the challenges and opportunities in reimagining humanitarian work for a more equitable future.

Eleanor shares her experiences and reflections on working closely with social movement activists for over 20 years. She lives in a Catalonian mountain village, where the Ulex Project she works for runs training and capacity-building events for a wide range of social movements. Eleanor reflects on the changes she has witnessed in social movement activists over time, such as how the hope for big social change has decreased due to the poly-crisis and complexity of the world's challenges. Simon and Eleanor discuss how the ideology of neo-liberalism presents itself as TINA, ‘there is no alternative’, which has been very effective in reducing expectations and diminishing the hope of change. Activists need to sustain and energise themselves, and Eleanor shares how Buddhism has helped her decenter her individualism, and expand her relationality to all beings. She shares how rock climbing provides her best leadership model, as when climbing there is total reliance on the leadership-followership relationship, and how the best plans get undone usually by nature intervening, forcing an emergent mindset. Bio  Eleanor Moore is part of the Ulex Project core team that provides pan-European capacity-building support for social movements. Her role bridges facilitation, developing partnerships, governance, strategy, and programme evaluation.  She is embedded in practices of distributed leadership, solidarity economy, and mutual care—a daily exploration of prefiguration. Before Ulex, Eleanor spent 10 years working across diverse social projects in the UK, such as housing, legal, and horticultural projects. These experiences and an immersion in critical theory in her early 20s led to an ongoing life exploration of the connections between the personal, the interpersonal, the socio-political, and the ecological. A climber of many years, she finds respite, sanctuary, and sense-making on high exposed ledges, hanging out with lichen and vultures, and connecting with the perspectives of the non-human world.

Leslie is a student at the Lacanian School of Psychoanalysis of San Francisco and shares an interest with Simon about how Lacan’s work can be very useful in our coaching practice.  Leslie shares how Lacan’s psychoanalytic approaches show up in her work saying the most important thing is that “it changes the way I listen”. She shares how this listening picks up on words and other speech acts that are often missed, such as repetitions, and sounds such as um and ah, and how these tell us something about our unconscious relationship to ourselves and others. Simon and Leslie share experiences of psychoanalysis and how it is used in coaching. Leslie talks of how the body holds so much of our unconscious experience, and how she might ask a client about any body symptoms they are experiencing as a way to engage with the unconscious.  This fascinating discussion meanders through many experiences and thoughts,  ranging from how Quakers and Buddhist practices are connected with psychoanalysis, and the overlaps between Leslie’s ceramic artwork and the unconscious.  We hope you enjoy this podcast and it enriches your day!    Bio Leslie Goldenberg is a Coach and an award-winning ceramic artist.  Over the past several years, her work has increasingly come to address the unconscious at work in organizational life. Leslie earned her M.A. from UCLA and is currently a student at the Lacanian School of Psychoanalysis of San Francisco.  She holds a PCC credential from the International Coaching Federation, has a Master Coach certification from the Hudson Institute of Coaching, and was trained in our own Eco-Leadership Institute Coaching approaches.