Edgy Ideas

Show Notes In this conversation, Anna Harvey discusses her integration of psychoanalysis and ecology in her work as a senior lecturer in social work. She emphasizes the importance of understanding child protection within a broader sociopolitical context and advocates for a public health approach to social work. Anna explores how ecological perspectives can inform systemic thinking and the interconnectedness of individuals within their environments. The discussion highlights the need to decenter the individual and recognize the symbiotic relationships that exist in both nature and society. In this conversation, Simon and Anna explore the significance of language in psychoanalysis, the transformative practice of composting as a metaphor for personal growth, and the interconnectedness of all living beings. They discuss the importance of symbiosis in nature, the need to re-enchant our lives with spirituality, and the reflections on what it means to live a good life in a society that often prioritizes superficial experiences over deep connections. Reflections The internal psychological world is shaped by external environmental factors. Ecology provides a lens to understand systemic interconnections. Diversity in ecosystems creates strength and resilience. Symbiosis is a fundamental aspect of life and ecology. Understanding our interconnectedness can reshape our approach to social issues.  Composting encourages a physical and spiritual engagement with our thoughts. We are small parts of a vast interconnected universe. Modern life often alienates us from our true selves. Experiences should be deep and meaningful, not superficial. We must engage with diverse perspectives to grow. Living a good life involves recognizing our place in the world. Keywords ecology, psychoanalysis,social work, systemic thinking, ecological crisis, psychosocial approach, permaculture, interconnectedness, public health, psychoanalysis, composting, interconnectedness, symbiosis, ecology, spirituality, good life, education, nature, holistic thinking Bio Anna Harvey is a senior lecturer at the Tavistock and Portman Trust, teaching on the professional doctorate in social work. With 27 years of experience in child protection and social care, she leads modules on reflexivity, institutional observation, and psychosocial interventions, integrating psychoanalytic and ecological perspectives. Her teaching emphasizes self-awareness, therapeutic relationships, and systemic thinking. She supervises doctoral students, focusing on marginalised voices in social work. As a consultant, she trains professionals in reflective supervision. Her awareness of the ecological crisis led to organizing a climate psychology conference and co-editing a special journal issue. She incorporates ecological metaphors into social work education, helping students understand complexity, adaptation, and systemic interconnections. Her research explores interconnection and hyper-individualism. Personally, she home-educates her son in ecology, evolution, and natural history, driven by a deep passion for the dynamic interplay between biotic and abiotic systems, shaping both social work and environmental awareness.  

Show Notes: In this provocative episode, Simon and Lauri dive into the disruptive potential of AI to reshape coaching as we know it. They challenge traditional coaching paradigms, exploring how systemic coaching can integrate with AI to amplify impact. The conversation takes a sharp turn into ethics, questioning the accountability of AI designers and the values underpinning these technologies. Simon and Lauri explore the triad of AI, human coaches and clients, and how they might work together to co-create powerful organisational outcomes. As they unpack these relationships, they reveal new ways of thinking about human-AI collaboration. Lauri also brings his reflective lens to the bigger picture: what does it mean to live a good life and build a good society in the age of rapid technological change? This episode inspires a fresh take on adaptability, co-creation, and the need for conscious design in an ever-shifting world. Key Reflections: AI coaching is evolving into a new category of coaching. There is a bifurcation in the coaching market between AI and human coaches. AI can engage with large populations cost-effectively. Human coaching focuses on relational and embodied experiences. AI coaching raises philosophical and ethical questions about existence and relationships. Systemic coaching can help organizations understand their complexities better. AI can facilitate conversations that map out social contexts in organizations. The relationship between AI and human coaches can create a virtuous loop. A humane narrative for AI is necessary to alleviate fears. Living a good life involves understanding one's role in systems and networks. Keywords: AI coaching, systemic coaching, ethics, human connection, technology, organizational change, coaching methodologies, coaching relationships, coaching philosophy, coaching and AI

Mishel McMahon, a proud Yorta Yorta woman and Senior Research Fellow, sheds light on the importance of First Nations worldviews in reconnecting with nature and our ancestors. She discusses how modern mindsets have fragmented our relationships, advocating for a more cyclical understanding of time. Mishel emphasizes relationality—recognizing all beings as interconnected—and shares insights on how these perspectives can enhance health practices. The conversation culminates in a call for re-enchantment, urging a return to the essence of community and collaboration.

Breaking Together In this conversation, Jem Bendel discusses his journey from a career in corporate sustainability to advocating for a radical shift in how we approach climate change and societal collapse. He reflects on his influential paper, 'Deep Adaptation,' which argues that the sustainability movement is no-longer appropriate and that we should prepare for societal collapse. Jem introduces his new framework, 'Breaking Together,' which emphasizes community resilience and eco-libertarianism as a path forward. He shares personal insights about his upbringing and how they shaped his worldview, ultimately advocating for a collective approach to lead localised change.  Takeaways The sustainability movement has largely failed to address the urgency of climate change. Deep Adaptation provides a framework for discussing societal collapse. Many people have been radicalized by the realization of impending collapse. Eco-libertarianism offers a path that contrasts with eco-authoritarianism. Community resilience is essential in the face of societal challenges. Personal experiences can deeply influence one's worldview and actions. A good life is about inquiry, creativity, and connection, not just longevity. We must reclaim control over our resources and communities. The dominant narratives in society can limit our understanding of what is possible. Collective action and community engagement are crucial for creating a better future. Bio Prof. Jem Bendell is Founder of the Deep Adaptation movement, an emeritus professor with the University of Cumbria and the co-Founder of the International Scholars’ Warning on Societal Disruption and Collapse. He worked for over 20 years in corporate sustainability, helping launch or develop many international initiatives. That led to his recognition as a Young Global Leader. His 2018 paper "Deep Adaptation" was downloaded over a million times and is widely credited with helping inspire the growth of the Extinction Rebellion movement. That marked a departure, whereby he concluded the field of sustainability had failed. His new book "Breaking Together" goes further by outlining a collapse-based political framework. Jem also co-hosts the short online course Leading Through Collapse: https://www.katie-carr.com/leadingthroughcollapse.

Psychoanalysis and Humanising the Workplace Gabriella Braun, a renowned consultant and author, delves into her fascinating journey, sharing her insights from her latest book, All that we are: Uncovering the Hidden Truths Behind Our Behaviour at Work. Gabriella discusses how psychoanalytic principles can provide deep insights into organizational dynamics and group behavior, influencing everything from leadership to team cohesion. Her emphasis on emotional awareness highlights its critical role in effective coaching, while she explores how vulnerability in professional environments can foster stronger connections and transform group interactions. Gabriella underscores the importance of humanizing the workplace, particularly in the face of rapid digitalization and societal change. She reflects on the interplay between personal and professional boundaries, noting how understanding these elements can contribute to healthier organizations. Gabriella also touches on societal issues, emphasizing the need for sensitivity and awareness in addressing them within organizations.The discussion centers on the broader theme of living a balanced, meaningful life, where understanding human desire and behavior, curiosity, and playfulness contribute not just to workplace success but to a more connected, compassionate society. Bio Gabriella Braun is the Director of Working Well, a specialist consultancy firm using psychoanalytic and systemic thinking to help leaders and teams. She has consulted to hundreds of clients including British Library, RADA, Tate, NHS Trusts, Schools, Colleges, University of Cambridge and University of London. She holds a masters's degree in Consulting to Organisations: Psychoanalytic Approaches; and was a Principal Consultant with the Tavistock Consultancy Service. She was on on Associate Faculty of the Dynamics of Consulting Program (in US), and has directed and held staff roles in numerous experiential workshops about leadership and team dynamics in UK and abroad. 

Kate Moger is the Global Director of Pledge for Change, an NGO representing a mutual commitment towards building a stronger aid ecosystem based on the principles of solidarity, humility, self-determination and equality. Kate shares her journey in the humanitarian sector and her vision for transforming it. With over two decades of experience in various leadership roles, Kate reflects on how she entered the field somewhat accidentally and how her perspective has evolved over time. Kate discusses the changing landscape of humanitarian work, from her early days as part of the "last of the salvationists" to her current role in driving radical change. She candidly shares her experiences in South Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo, highlighting both the challenges and profound connections she found in these contexts. The conversation delves into the complexities of power dynamics, feminism, and decolonizing aid. Kate emphasizes the importance of intersectionality and understanding power imbalances in her approach to feminism and humanitarian work. She explains the origins and goals of Pledge for Change, an initiative aimed at transforming the humanitarian sector through equitable partnerships, authentic storytelling, and influencing wider change. Kate and Simon explore the tensions within the humanitarian system, questioning whether reform is possible or if a complete dismantling is necessary. They discuss the importance of nurturing emergent systems and leadership at the edges, while acknowledging the geopolitical complexities surrounding humanitarian work. The podcast concludes with Kate's reflections on what it means to live a good life and create a good society, drawing on the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of speaking truth to power with kindness. This conversation offers a thought-provoking look at the challenges and opportunities in reimagining humanitarian work for a more equitable future.

Eleanor shares her experiences and reflections on working closely with social movement activists for over 20 years. She lives in a Catalonian mountain village, where the Ulex Project she works for runs training and capacity-building events for a wide range of social movements. Eleanor reflects on the changes she has witnessed in social movement activists over time, such as how the hope for big social change has decreased due to the poly-crisis and complexity of the world's challenges. Simon and Eleanor discuss how the ideology of neo-liberalism presents itself as TINA, ‘there is no alternative’, which has been very effective in reducing expectations and diminishing the hope of change. Activists need to sustain and energise themselves, and Eleanor shares how Buddhism has helped her decenter her individualism, and expand her relationality to all beings. She shares how rock climbing provides her best leadership model, as when climbing there is total reliance on the leadership-followership relationship, and how the best plans get undone usually by nature intervening, forcing an emergent mindset. Bio  Eleanor Moore is part of the Ulex Project core team that provides pan-European capacity-building support for social movements. Her role bridges facilitation, developing partnerships, governance, strategy, and programme evaluation.  She is embedded in practices of distributed leadership, solidarity economy, and mutual care—a daily exploration of prefiguration. Before Ulex, Eleanor spent 10 years working across diverse social projects in the UK, such as housing, legal, and horticultural projects. These experiences and an immersion in critical theory in her early 20s led to an ongoing life exploration of the connections between the personal, the interpersonal, the socio-political, and the ecological. A climber of many years, she finds respite, sanctuary, and sense-making on high exposed ledges, hanging out with lichen and vultures, and connecting with the perspectives of the non-human world.

Leslie is a student at the Lacanian School of Psychoanalysis of San Francisco and shares an interest with Simon about how Lacan’s work can be very useful in our coaching practice.  Leslie shares how Lacan’s psychoanalytic approaches show up in her work saying the most important thing is that “it changes the way I listen”. She shares how this listening picks up on words and other speech acts that are often missed, such as repetitions, and sounds such as um and ah, and how these tell us something about our unconscious relationship to ourselves and others. Simon and Leslie share experiences of psychoanalysis and how it is used in coaching. Leslie talks of how the body holds so much of our unconscious experience, and how she might ask a client about any body symptoms they are experiencing as a way to engage with the unconscious.  This fascinating discussion meanders through many experiences and thoughts,  ranging from how Quakers and Buddhist practices are connected with psychoanalysis, and the overlaps between Leslie’s ceramic artwork and the unconscious.  We hope you enjoy this podcast and it enriches your day!    Bio Leslie Goldenberg is a Coach and an award-winning ceramic artist.  Over the past several years, her work has increasingly come to address the unconscious at work in organizational life. Leslie earned her M.A. from UCLA and is currently a student at the Lacanian School of Psychoanalysis of San Francisco.  She holds a PCC credential from the International Coaching Federation, has a Master Coach certification from the Hudson Institute of Coaching, and was trained in our own Eco-Leadership Institute Coaching approaches.

This conversation goes deep into an unplanned examination of the troubles of the world and arises from these to explore the changing workplace and how we reinvent ourselves. Susan is a Jew who lives in London, and she describes her experience with both the rise of anti-Semitism and the sadness at what is happening in Gaza, as well as her deep desire for justice and peace for Israeli, Jewish, and Palestinian people. She recently returned from visiting Israel and then Poland for the March of the Living 2024 to remember the Holocaust. Simon and Susan share how even talking about these issues seems dangerous and yet so necessary as the world becomes more divided.  The podcast returns to the theme of reinventing ourselves and the changing nature of the workplace. Susan shares a tale from her book reflecting on the need for a much more holistic understanding of the world and ourselves within it. We can easily see ourselves and others in partial ways, which doesn’t allow the full expression of our shared humanity. Simon reads a beautiful passage at the end of Susan’s book, called On Transience, drawing on Freud's 1916 essay.  This conversation is rich and touches on our deep humanity. Enjoy!   Bio  Susan Kahn is a business psychologist, a speaker, and an academic. She is a chartered psychologist, coaching psychologist, and supervisor with the British Psychological Society and a Fellow of the Association of Business Psychologists. She works as an executive coach, consultant, mediator, and observer of working life.  She has a particular interest in the behaviour of people at work and below-surface dynamics in organisations. She studied organisational consultancy using psychoanalytic methods at Tavistock and did her PhD at Birkbeck, University of London, where she teaches coaching psychology and established the Masters in Coaching Psychology. She also works as a group relations consultant. She uses psychoanalytic observation as a research method and has written about the psychoanalysis of endings and resilience. She is a board member of This Can Happen: empowering workplace mental health, ISPSO and OPUS. Her latest book is called Reinvent Yourself: Psychological Insights That Will Transform Your Work Life. Purchase it here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reinvent-Yourself-Psychological-Insights-Transform/dp/1398613312 Get in touch: www.drskahn.com

Liz Rivers shares her rich engagement with nature and how it informs her work in leadership and as a coach. The seasonal organisation refers back to pre-modern times and draws on the Celtic Calendar as a way of connecting our workplaces with the rhythms and cycles of the natural world. The Celtic calendar marks times in the year when the light changes, when we have the shortest and longest days, which in turn mark the beginning and end of seasons. Life and work used to be organised around these seasonal changes, whereas in the process of urbanisation and industrialization, the clock took over and work was organised without reference to nature or its seasonal rhythms. Liz uses the seasonal organisation as part of her work to support women’s leadership in her Purpose Power Presence programmes delivered with Hetty Einzig. This training works with the body and the imagination to find space for something other than the constant, driven, male-dominated leadership styles we still find in today’s workplace. Simon and Liz reflect on how men would respond to this ‘women's course’ and how work and the environment can be more integrated in general. Enjoy this exploration of the seasonal organisation.   Bio Liz Rivers is a former commercial lawyer turned leadership coach and co-founder with Hetty Einzig of Purpose Power Presence: Leadership Programmes for Women. Disillusioned with the adversarial world of commercial litigation, Liz jumped ship and became the first woman to be accredited as a commercial and organisational mediator in the UK.  In her personal life, Liz's passions have included Chi Kung, wild swimming, storytelling, body psychotherapy, camping, and wilderness retreats. She has studied and worked with the Celtic Calendar for over a decade and found it a powerful tool for women leaders to align with their rhythms and create more humane workplaces.