
Things That Go Boom
Stories about the ins, outs, and whathaveyous of what keeps us safe. Hosted by Laicie Heeley.
Latest episodes

Aug 30, 2021 • 31min
S5 E6 - Take This Job and Shove It
Conversations about downsizing America’s defense budget almost immediately stall out in a Catch-22: Reallocating those tax dollars to invest in domestic priorities would be devastating to the many small cities where a manufacturing plant, ICBM silo, or military base is the lifeblood of the local economy.
If Biden begins to shift some money away from defense, or even just, away from some of the big weapons systems a lot of defense towns are tasked to build, does that mean a whole lot of middle class jobs might get cut?
What if there’s a better option? One that fits more closely with Biden's plans for the middle class?
GUESTS: Natalie Click, PhD student at Arizona State University; Taylor Barnes, Journalist; Miriam Pemberton, Institute for Policy Studies
ADDITIONAL READING:
From Arms to Renewables: How Workers in This Southern Military Industrial Hub Are Converting the Economy, Taylor Barnes, Southerly Magazine.
‘Honk for Humane Jobs’: NC Activists Challenge Subsidies for Weapons Maker, Taylor Barnes, Facing South.
Let’s Turn Our Military Resources To Building a Post-COVID Industrial Base for All Americans, Miriam Pemberton, Newsweek.
Study Says Domestic, Not Military Spending, Fuels Job Growth, Brown University.
How Much More Expensive Can the F-35 Actually Get? Kyle Mizokami, Popular Mechanics.

Aug 16, 2021 • 28min
S5 E5 - You Say Gatorade, I Say Bacon
On this episode of Things That Go Boom, we look at some of the ways civilian and military cultures are merging — and diverging — after two decades of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. If Americans are distanced from the messy work of national security, how can the Biden administration have an honest conversation with them about priorities?
GUESTS: Lacey Hopper, rucking aficionado; Timur Nersesov, US Army Reserve Officer; Loren DeJonge Schulman, Center for a New American Security.
ADDITIONAL READING:
Who signs up to fight? Dave Philipps and Tim Arango, The New York Times.
Biden’s Foreign Policy Starts at Home, Peter Nicholas, The Atlantic.
// This episode comes at a chaotic and frightening time in Afghanistan, as Taliban fighters pour into the capital and US troops rush to evacuate allies. The following organizations are just a few providing aid to those in Afghanistan who need help:
Doctors Without Borders
International Rescue Committee
No One Left Behind

Aug 2, 2021 • 25min
S5 E4 - Amtrak and the End of the Free World
Washington and Beijing have been increasingly at odds -- over human rights, trade, maritime boundaries, you name it. Does this tension help Biden at home? And what does it mean for Asian Americans?
GUESTS: Samuel Chu, Hong Kong Democracy Council; Nina Luo, Writer and Organizer; Adrian De Leon, University of Southern California; Rui Zhong, Wilson Center
ADDITIONAL READING:
The American Victims of Washington’s Anti-China Hysteria, Nina Luo, The New Republic.
Why Is China Coming After Americans Like Me in the US? Samuel Chu, The New York Times.

Jul 19, 2021 • 30min
S5 E3 - Alright Dom, What's Next?
Here in the US, we’re just catching on to the idea of creating a foreign policy that lifts up our middle class, but China’s been at it for decades. On this episode, we dig into China’s rise. What’s worked, what hasn’t, and where it might go next.
GUESTS: Ethan Lee, Stanford University (Student); Ali Wyne, Eurasia Group; Scott Rozelle, Stanford University; Peter Lorentzen, University of San Francisco.
ADDITIONAL READING:
The World China Wants, Rana Mitter, Foreign Affairs.
Invisible China: How the Urban-Rural Divide Threatens China’s Rise, Scott Rozelle, University of Chicago Press.
Foreign Policy Lessons From Brown v. Board of Education, Ali Wyne, Inkstick Media.
'Mulan' and China's Approach To Soft Power Through Hollywood, Ethan Lee, Inkstick Media.

Jul 5, 2021 • 25min
S5 E2 - Out From Under the Leaking Roof and Into the Rain
One of Biden's biggest foreign policy moves so far has been sticking with Trump's Afghanistan withdrawal plan. The move comes after 20 years of war, which killed more than 241,000 people on all sides according to Brown University estimates. But how does it fit into Biden's foreign policy for the middle class? And what does our exit mean for the lives of middle-class Afghan women who fear a Taliban resurgence?
GUESTS: Metra Mehran, Institute of Diplomacy at Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kabul; James Traub, Foreign Policy
ADDITIONAL READING:
Biden’s ‘Foreign Policy for the Middle Class’ Is a Revolution, James Traub, Foreign Policy.
The People We’re Leaving Behind in Afghanistan, Steve Coll, The New Yorker.
US Troops Are Packing Up, Ready or Not, Thomas Gibbons-Neff, Najim Rahim and Fatima Faizi, New York Times.

Jun 21, 2021 • 29min
S5 E1 - Cheers to the American Middle Class
Quick, give me the first answer to this question that comes to your head: What TV character is the archetype of the American middle class? Archie Bunker? Homer Simpson? Roseanne Conner? What about Cliff Huxtable? Dre Johnson? Or Jane Villanueva? On this episode, we dig into the huge, diverse swath of people that make up America’s middle class. And we ask if it’s possible to create one overarching policy that makes life better for them all — especially if you, yourself, only represent a small piece. Or may even have fallen out of touch entirely.
GUESTS: Emily VanDerWerff, Vox; Anne Helen Petersen, Culture Study; Mari Faines, Physicians for Social Responsibility; Lori Latrice Martin, Louisiana State University
ADDITIONAL READING:
What TV Says About Race and Money, Salamishah Tillet, New York Times
10 Episodes That Show How Cheers Stayed Great for 11 Seasons, Emily VanDerWerff, AV Club
America’s Hollow Middle Class, Anne Helen Petersen, Vox
America in Denial: How Race-Fair Policies Reinforce Racial Inequality in America, Lori Latrice Martin, SUNY Press

Jun 14, 2021 • 3min
S5 Trailer
The Biden administration says it’s focused on creating a “foreign policy for the middle class,” But what does that really mean? Keeping on keeping on with the way things have always been done? Slapping a little lipstick and climate change on Trump’s, “America First” agenda? Or creating something truly revolutionary? Ask around in Washington, and you’ll get ten different answers to the same question, if you get an answer at all. So this season, Things That Go Boom set out to decide for itself: What even is the middle class? What does it have to do with foreign policy? And, are we sitting on the precipice of a major change in the way we live our lives?

May 3, 2021 • 21min
S4 Bonus - A Very Hokey 100 Days
April 29 marked President Biden’s 100th day in office. So we thought it was about time to pop back in with a special bonus episode — before we’re back officially with season 5 — to take a look at what Biden’s done so far in terms of foreign policy, and what that might signal about his priorities going forward. On this episode Things That Go Boom: A very candid conversation with Nahal Toosi. What has Biden already accomplished, what can we learn about his goals, and what are analysts watching for on the horizon?
GUESTS: Nahal Toosi, Politico
ADDITIONAL READING:
We're All 'Omnipolicy' Experts Now, Nahal Toosi.
Biden’s ‘Foreign Policy for the Middle Class’ Is a Revolution, James Traub.
7 Ways to Track if Biden’s Omnipolicy Works, Nahal Toosi.

Mar 1, 2021 • 26min
S4 E9 - Baby Nukes: When a Little Boom Is All You Need
Over the course of our nuclear history, smaller (potentially more usable) nuclear weapons have come in all shapes and sizes — from so-called backpack bombs to the Davy Crockett nuclear rifle...
And last year, the US deployed a new one.
But, what exactly are these things? Do we need them? And what does the deployment of a new generation of them reveal about the US’s nuclear posture?
On this episode of Things That Go Boom, we talk about low-yield nuclear weapons -- or what we’ve affectionately termed, “baby nukes.”
GUESTS: Matt Korda, Federation of American Scientists; Rose Gottemoeller, Stanford University
ADDITIONAL READING:
The Littlest Boy, Adam Rawnsley and David Brown.
Nuclear Notebook: United States Nuclear Weapons, 2021, Hans Kristensen and Matt Korda.
After the Apocalypse: US Nuclear Policy, Heather Williams, Vipin Narang, Beatrice Finh, and Togzhan Kassenova.

Feb 15, 2021 • 25min
S4 E8 - Aliens Among Us
Conspiracy theories are as old as time. And, they’re not all bad. Sometimes they bring us together for a subpar party in the desert. Take, for example, that one time in 2019 when more than 2 million people RSVP’d to ambush Area 51.
But when they take a turn to the dark side, conspiracy theories can be as dangerous as any other threat we face.
On this episode of Things That Go Boom, we talk about how the internet has fueled a rise in that dark side, and how it caught the US government by surprise.
GUESTS: Elizabeth Neumann, Former Assistant Secretary for Counterterrorism and Threat Prevention at the Department of Homeland Security; Oumou Ly, Fellow, Berkman Klein Center, Harvard Law School
ADDITIONAL READING:
Leaving Trump in Office Now Will Just Encourage White Nationalists, Kathleen Belew and Elizabeth Neumann.
When Disinformation Becomes a Political Strategy, Who Holds the Line?, Oumou Ly.
QAnon Believers Are Obsessed With Hillary Clinton. She Has Thoughts., Michelle Goldberg.