

Things That Go Boom
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Stories about the ins, outs, and whathaveyous of what keeps us safe. Hosted by Laicie Heeley.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Mar 6, 2023 • 28min
Mr. Fonio
There are tens, or even hundreds, of thousands of edible plants in the world. But humans only cultivate a couple hundred of those at any significant scale. And when we eat, we tend to stick to just a few: More than half of the calories that humans consume around the world today come from just corn, soy, wheat, and rice. But that narrow focus on food is putting us in danger.
As climate change, the COVID pandemic, and conflict in “breadbasket” regions like Ukraine continue to disrupt agriculture, it may be time for forgotten crops to make a comeback. On this episode, Chef Pierre Thiam explains how one of these ancient grains might just save the world.
GUEST: Pierre Thiam, Chef, author, & entrepreneur
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
Where to find some fonio: Yolélé
How to cook fonio: The Fonio Cookbook by Pierre Thiam
Will the world’s breadbaskets become less reliable?, McKinsey (charts and maps!)
Looking at other grains (millet and fonio) to help feed the world, Foreign Policy
Explore stats on crop and livestock production around the world, The UN Food and Agriculture Organization

Feb 20, 2023 • 27min
What’s Next for Brazil After Bolsonaro?
Just two years ago, Brazilian president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva was in prison. It’s a fairytale-like comeback story. But his life is also a food story. From a hungry childhood raised by sharecropper parents, Lula made ending hunger a major part of his first two highly popular terms as president.
Now, as he settles into the Presidential Palace once again – he has big plans for strengthening Brazil’s democracy and positioning the country as a diplomatic powerhouse.
Those plans will depend on reaching people through their stomachs.
GUESTS: Cassia Bechara, International Relations Committee Spokesperson, Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra/Landless Workers’ Movement; Michael Fox, Independent Journalist; Fabio de Sa e Silva, Assistant Professor of International Studies and Wick Cary Professor of Brazilian Studies, University of Oklahoma; Fabiane Ziolla Menezes, Business and Technology Journalist, Brazilian Report
Thank you to Larissa Packer, Rafael Soares Gonzales, and James MacDonald.
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
“Lurching From Food Crisis to Food Crisis,” GRAIN
“The Rise of Congress Will Have Consequences for Brazil’s Victor,” Lucas de Aragão, Americas Quarterly
Check out the Brazilian Report’s newsletters here.

Feb 6, 2023 • 28min
Can Cluster Bombs Show Us How To Stop a Nuclear War?
Despite being banned, anti-personnel landmines and unexploded submunitions still litter fields from Bosnia to Bangladesh. And they’re even being used in Ukraine. Does that mean the treaties that ban their use aren’t working? Experts say the story isn’t so simple, and that, actually, the treaties to ban these weapons have shown a new way forward: one where norms stigmatize the return to these weapons and constrain even the biggest superpowers.
But what will it take to clean up the mess left behind? And can anti-nuclear activists repeat the party trick?
GUESTS: Treasa Dunworth Associate Professor of Law, University of Auckland; Matthew Breay Bolton, Professor of Political Science, Pace University; Sera Koulabdara, Executive Director, Legacies of War; Alex van Roy, Chief Operations Officer, FSD
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
How War Changes Land: Soil Fertility, Unexploded Bombs, and the Underdevelopment of Cambodia, Erin Lin, American Journal of Political Science
Political Minefields: The Struggle Against Automatic Killing, Matthew Breay Bolton, Bloomsbury Academic
Humanitarian Disarmament: An Historical Inquiry, Treasa Dunworth, Cambridge University Press
Legacies Library: Resources on the Secret War in Laos

Jan 23, 2023 • 35min
How Xi Jinping Plans to Fill China’s ‘Rice Bowl’
One morning in the 2010s, a rural midwestern farmer called the cops. There was a guy in a suit sniffing around a field near town. A big SUV dropped him off.
And the story of how the man got there? That can tell us a lot about Xi Jinping’s past, present, and future.
China’s seen incredible growth over the last 50 years — and with that, major changes in the country’s diet and agriculture. With 1.4 billion people to feed and a party narrative to upkeep, President Xi Jinping is pushing the country to invest in its own food security.
During a time when tension between the US and China are rising, we look at how Great Power Competition is unfolding in America’s cornfields.
GUESTS: Sue-Lin Wong, The Economist; Wendong Zhang, Cornell University; Arthur Kroeber, Gavekal Dragonomics
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
The Prince, The Economist
How Has China Maintained Domestic Food Stability Amid Global Food Crises?, World Economic Forum
China’s Interests in US Agriculture: Augmenting Food Security through Investment Abroad, US-China Economic and Security Review Commission

Jan 9, 2023 • 26min
Reissue: Navigating the Strait
We turn our attention to the narrow strait that divides China and Taiwan, which some analysts believe is the most likely flashpoint for another far-away conflict involving the US military.
If President Biden reconfigures foreign policy to focus more on threats at home, will that leave us unprepared to defend US interests abroad? Or should we rethink which battles we’re willing to fight?
GUESTS: Oriana Skylar Mastro, Fellow at Stanford University’s Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, Michael Mazarr, Senior Political Scientist at the RAND Corporation.
ADDITIONAL READING:
The Taiwan Temptation, Foreign Affairs.
Time for a New Approach to Defense Strategy, War on the Rocks.
Biden Backs Taiwan, but Some Call for a Clearer Warning to China, New York Times.
** This episode was originally published on September 13, 2021.

Dec 26, 2022 • 31min
Reissue: Take This Job and Shove It
Conversations about downsizing America’s defense budget almost immediately stall out in a Catch-22: Reallocating those tax dollars to invest in domestic priorities would be devastating to the many small cities where a manufacturing plant, ICBM silo, or military base is the lifeblood of the local economy.
If Biden begins to shift some money away from defense, or even just, away from some of the big weapons systems a lot of defense towns are tasked to build, does that mean a whole lot of middle-class jobs might get cut?
What if there’s a better option? One that fits more closely with Biden’s plans for the middle class?
GUESTS: Natalie Click, PhD student at Arizona State University; Taylor Barnes, Journalist; Miriam Pemberton, Institute for Policy Studies
ADDITIONAL READING:
From Arms to Renewables: How Workers in This Southern Military Industrial Hub Are Converting the Economy, Taylor Barnes, Southerly Magazine.
‘Honk for Humane Jobs’: NC Activists Challenge Subsidies for Weapons Maker, Taylor Barnes, Facing South.
Let’s Turn Our Military Resources To Building a Post-COVID Industrial Base for All Americans, Miriam Pemberton, Newsweek.
Study Says Domestic, Not Military Spending, Fuels Job Growth, Brown University.
How Much More Expensive Can the F-35 Actually Get? Kyle Mizokami, Popular Mechanics.
** This episode was originally published on August 30, 2021.

Dec 12, 2022 • 31min
Are Military Families Really Going Hungry?
Many Americans once viewed the US military as a reliable road to a middle-class life. But, despite record-breaking military spending in recent years, new research shows that one-in-six military families don’t have consistent access to healthy food. So, how is it that service members and their families are finding basic necessities out of reach?
In this episode, we talk about childcare, spouse employment, frequent moves, and food stamps with folks who have wrestled with all of these issues firsthand. And we ask the experts, are the new policies to address these problems going to be enough?
Statement, Cmdr. Nicole Schwegman, Department of Defense spokesperson:
“We understand the extraordinary pressures military families face and we have made progress, but we know that there is more work to be done. We will continue to listen, learn, and lead on issues we know are critical to stability and the unique challenges of military life.”
GUESTS*:
Rae Ellen Holberg, military spouse and mother of four; Shannon Razsadin, president and executive director of MFAN; Sarah Streyder, executive director of Secure Families Initiative; Nils Olsen, company commander in the US Army; Brandon Archuleta, senior fellow at the Center of New American Security
*The views of all guests are their own, and do not reflect the policies or positions of the US Army, United States Department of Defense or the United States Government.
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
Food Insecurity Among US Veterans and Military Families, Center for Strategic & International Studies
Food Insecurity, Military Family Advisory Network
Allowance for the Most At-risk Military Families Begins To Take Shape, Military Times
Taking Care of Our Service Members and Families, Department of Defense
Who Signs Up to Fight? Makeup of U.S. Recruits Shows Glaring Disparity, New York Times

Nov 28, 2022 • 28min
Samin Nosrat on War, Appropriation, and the Power of Food
Samin Nosrat joins us to talk about cooking, conflict, and the global forces shaping the food on our plates. Have you ever tried Saigon cinnamon? How about Iranian saffron? Learn about the flavors and traditions we lose when war and international politics get in the way.
We get real about "kimchi diplomacy.” And we talk about the alternating slog and beauty of cooking as a way to connect to our own bodies — and support others — when times are hard.
GUESTS: Samin Nosrat, writer, cook, and teacher
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
Before Croissants, There Was Kubaneh, a Jewish Yemeni Delight, Tejal Rao, The New York Times Magazine
What's an Aleppo Pepper?, Layla Eplett, Scientific American
The Experiment Presents SPAM, Julia Longoria and team, WNYC & The Atlantic

Nov 14, 2022 • 30min
What Our Nuclear History Means for Indigenous Food
On the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, endangered plants bloom on the shrubsteppe. The Yakama Nation signed a treaty in 1855 to cede some of its lands to the US government. The treaty promised that the Yakama people could continue to use their traditional territory to hunt and fish. But in 1943, those promises were broken, as Hanford became a secretive site for nuclear plutonium production.
Today, Hanford is one of the world’s most contaminated sites, and the cleanup will take generations. As more ceded lands have been encroached on by agriculture and development, the Hanford land is home to an ugly irony: Untouchable by outsiders — but unsafe for members of the Yakama Nation to fully practice their traditions. Now, while they fight for the most rigorous cleanup possible, they’re also finding other ways to keep those traditions alive.
Flash back to 1989, on the other side of the world lies another steppe near Semey (once Semipalatinsk), Kazakhstan. A land that’s survived famine, collectivization, and hundreds of nuclear tests. When an underground test goes wrong, Kazakhs band together with the world and say it’s time to stop nuclear testing for good.
—
In addition to responding to questions we had about the Hanford site, the Department of Energy provided the following statement: “The Department is committed to continuing to work with the Yakama Nation on progressing toward our common goal of site cleanup,” it says in part. “DOE progress at Hanford is leading to a cleaner environment and additional protections for the Columbia River. This year alone Hanford … completed a protective enclosure around another former plutonium production reactor along the Columbia River and treated over 2 billion gallons of contaminated groundwater.”
GUESTS: Robert Franklin, Associate Director of the Hanford History Project; Marlene Jones, Marylee Jones, and Patsy Whitefoot, Yakama Nation members; Kali Robson, Trina Sherwood, and McClure Tosch, Yakama Nation's Environmental Restoration/Waste Management Program; Togzhan Kassenova, Senior Fellow at the Center for Policy Research, SUNY-Albany; Sarah Cameron, University of Maryland
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
Atomic Steppe: How Kazakhstan Gave Up The Bomb, Togzhan Kassenova
Nuclear waste ravaged their land. The Yakama Nation is on a quest to rescue it, Hallie Golden, The Guardian
How Native Land Became a Target for Nuclear Waste, Sanjana Manjeshwar, Inkstick Media
Hanford Site Cleanup Costs Continue to Rise, but Opportunities Exist to Save Tens of Billions of Dollars, GAO

Oct 31, 2022 • 32min
Food, War, and the Conspiracy Supply Chain
When we’re not in a crisis, food doesn’t tend to make it into stump speeches or budget pressers. It’s easy to end up in front of the computer, scrolling social media, snacking on something produced a thousand miles away and not think twice about it.
But what we eat touches every aspect our society — from security to culture, labor, economy, climate and more. It’s also a potent lightning rod for online conspiracies and disinformation.
GUESTS: Katie (pseudonym); Nina Jankowicz, Centre for Information Resilience; Domini Mellott, Secret Harvest; Vidya Mani, University of Virginia
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
Russia Smuggling Ukraninan Grain To Help Pay For Putin’s War, Michael Biesecker, Sarah El Deeb, and Beatrice Dupuy, The Associated Press
Food Supply and Covid-19: Breaking the Chain, Vidya Mani
Russian Disinformation in Africa: What’s sticking and what’s not, Mary Blankenship and Aloysius Uche Ordu, Brookings
Food Should Be Treated As National Security, Ehud Eiran, Michaela Elias and Aron M. Troen, Foreign Policy


