Philokalia Ministries

Father David Abernethy
undefined
Aug 20, 2020 • 1h 9min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Twenty-three Part I

Tonight we started letter 23. Saint Theophan had just spoken to Anastasia about what it is to rise from the fallen state of sin and what has been revealed to us in Christ. It is for this that we must have a strong zeal and embrace it with true joy.  In this letter St. Theophan maps out for Anastasia the different kinds of zeal. Spiritual zeal is focused on pleasing God and the pursuit of salvation. Intellectual zeal is the pursuit of any number of temporal goods and works. These are not evil but rather a part of life.  Yet we can give them disordered attention and energy that takes away from our relationship with God. More dangerous still is the zeal for Vanity and for Evil itself. These must be rejected altogether for they entrench a person in sin and darken the conscience. Zeal is not simply an emotion but rather the fervor of the Saints driven by the grace of God which is the fruit of their baptism. So it must be for us. ---- Text of chat during the group: 00:44:24 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The biblical account calls Barnabas “a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith” (Acts 11:24).   In the Byzantine tradition when the priest reunites the Body of Christ with the Blood of Christ in the chalice as a sign of the Resurrection, he says "Fullness of the Holy Spirit" as he drops a portion of the Lamb-the Body into the Blood.  And then  the priest blesses hot water (which the deacon will pour into the chalice) with the words which are intentionally of a double meaning in Greek or Old Slavonic but in English it's either "Blessed is the warmth/zeal/fervor of your "holies" (saints)."  and then when the deacon pours it the priest says, "the warmth/zeal/fervor of faith, full of the Holy Spirit."  And so the Holy Spirit restores life where there is death, and our risen Lord Himself is the source of zeal/fervor in the saints, ie the baptized.  "Without me you can do nothing" John 15:5  00:45:57 Carol Nypaver: Thank you for the insight Fr. Ivan! 01:23:23 Eric Williams: One of the hardest things for me, with respect to maintaining zeal, is separation from fellow faithful, orthodox Christians. Even before COVID-19, it seemed like we were few in number and scattered. I've found this especially challenging as a father. It's hard to raise children in the faith when they're not surrounded by good examples. Those examples, ideally, would be around in every aspect in life, and not just at liturgies. 01:24:15 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Eric, agreed
undefined
Aug 13, 2020 • 1h 8min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Twenty-two Part II

Tonight we concluded letter 22 of Saint Theophan to the young Anastasia.  Theophan focuses, in this final section of the letter, on zeal for the Lord. God has acted for our salvation and offers us the fullness of His life and love - His grace. He has given us His Spirit to create within us the right disposition to receive His grace.  That disposition is repentance. We see something of the hopelessness of our sin and in that moment we also become able to see and grasp the depth of God‘s love and mercy.  Yet, in the face of all this, God awaits our consent. We must yield ourselves to the Spirit’s action. God does not force Himself upon us; love must be embrace freely. This freedom means acknowledging the efficacy of the form of salvation put before us, desiring to be saved and a complete willingness to do in sincerity whatever is asked of us.   This is the path of salvation. When a person sees and embraces this reality an experience of calm comes to them. Once divine grace is established within us, our response, though weak, suddenly becomes all-powerful and knows no impediment and overcomes everything. ------ Text of chat during the group: 00:42:14 Edward Kleinguetl: For God, all things are possible. 00:49:37 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Lord, I believe, but help my unbelief.   (with a gentle reminder that this is revealed to us in the biblical way, many centuries before rationalism separated that which was meant to be whole.  So, belief is not something we do with our cogitating mind, alone.  We are to believe holistically with entire being comprised as it is of body, soul (desires, feelings-willpower, emotions and thoughts) and spirit (heart).)   This is also how we ought to repent, or surrender to God, etc. 00:51:13 Carol Nypaver: Thank you, Fr. Ivan!  So many accuse Catholics of “blind faith.” 00:51:51 Patrick Kiechlin: The Divine Liturgy is so incredibly beautiful.   00:55:49 Wayne Mackenzie: It appeals to all the senses 00:56:53 Patrick Kiechlin: Indeed.  It is truly Heaven on Earth. 01:18:42 Carol Nypaver: Sorry—I tried to unmute.  What about St. Paul’s conversion?  It seemed there was no movement of his will toward the Lord, but was totally the work of God.  So——when we pray for the conversion of our loved ones, can such a radical conversion occur without their direct “consent?” 01:21:10 Carol Nypaver: Awesome! Thank you. 01:23:07 Sheila Applegate: A misdirected love that God directed. 01:26:14 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Paul experienced the Resurrected Lord and not as an intellectual idea but revealed in His Body the Church.  Acts tells us Paul was secluded for three years after.  I like to think he hits the scrolls to reevaluate his thoughts in light of his experience. 01:26:52 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: a crucifixion of self as it were
undefined
Aug 10, 2020 • 1h 6min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Twenty-two Part I

Tonight we began reading letter 22 of St. Theophan to Anastasia. He begins to speak to her about the redemptive uplifting a fallen man. Yet once again the Saint works very hard to help her understand the fundamental truths behind the life that she has been called to live. Without understanding these things all else will be wanting.  In particular he wants her to understand that it is the Holy Trinity that is active in the restoration of man.  God has revealed Himself fully to us; He has drawn back the veil and allowed us to see the depths and intimacy of Love.  This restoration is something far greater than the forgiveness of sins; rather it is being drawn into the very life of the Holy Trinity. The Holy Spirit sets things in motion within us and prepares us to be that faithful dwelling place of God. Yet, this gift must be paired with the revelation of the Good News of the mercy and self-emptying love of God; that while we were yet enemies of God, He gave us His only begotten Son in order that we might have life and have it in all of its fullness. A person must be struck with fear and awe at this reality. They must be shaken to their very foundation. Only by seeing our complete unworthiness of this reality and the depth of our sin can we also come to see the preciousness and the value of the gift that we have received. Only then will we give our lives over fully - as God has given Himself to us.
undefined
Jul 23, 2020 • 1h 3min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Twenty-one

Tonight we read the 21st letter of the Saint to the young Anastasia. In many ways this is the most touching and beautiful of letters and yet also the most simple in its content. St. Theophan lays out for Anastasia the path that God has opened for us to reunion. He want her to understand that everything has already been set before us. We do not, and must not, seek to fashion a path for ourselves or devise a plan of our own hands. It is His yoke and burden that we must take upon ourselves because it alone is perfectly fit to lift us up and heal us. God has given us all. Better yet, He has given us everything – the perfect love of His only begotten Son and the gift of His own Spirit. We are given something far greater than the original innocence of Adam and Eve. We are given a share in the very life of God and all that He asks is that we receive it with humility and gratitude. Our responsibility is simply to embrace His will and providence and to remove any obstacles that may be an impediment to the work of this grace in our lives. If one were to sum up this letter it would be “All is Grace” - grace that must be received with a childlike faith.   ----- Text of chat during the group Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: regarding eastern Christian use of the word "passion". In 375 AD, Archdeacon Evagrius of Pontus (c. 346-399) developed a comprehensive list of eight evil assaulting “thoughts” (Greek: logismoi).  Through the centuries this was systematized in the East by various saints, mostly St. Maximos the Confessor (590-662).  The assaulting  “thoughts” act on and overcome people, becoming habits or compulsions of thinking, feeling-willing, and desiring over which we end up having little or no control.  At this point, the “thoughts” are said to have become “passions” (Greek: pathеа).  A “passion” (from pathos in Greek) is any deadly obsession that seems to be beyond our ability to control, let alone to recognize, in ourselves.  Thus, a passion is any spiritual “cancer”, or “death-bearing” and “soul-corrupting” sin.  The Greek word “pathos” can also mean - and be translated as - “suffering, desire, energy, zealous activity, craving”, depending on its context. Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: In the East, the passions are a distortion, deprivation or misdirection of the intellective, appetitive and incensive powers of the soul.  See Tables at: http://ocampr.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/the-christian-ascetic-tradition-on-dejection-and-despondency-david-holden-2004.pdf.  The “passions” enslave us and thereby are the chief cause of our sufferings.  In liberating us from sin and the effects of sin, our Lord delivers us from our passions as well as the pain which they cause.  Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St. Gregory the Dialogist (Pope of Rome from 590-604) would revise Evagrius’ list to form what, in the West, is today more commonly known as “the Seven Deadly Vices”, or Sins.  [Also in the West, the current edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for example §1767, uses the word “passion” to indicate something that is morally neutral, merely a strong feeling or emotion, and thus not sinful - unlike the way that the word “passion” is used in the East.]  Those Eastern Church Fathers, whose works were written between the 4th and 15th centuries and collected and published in the Philokalia-Добротолюбіє, list “by name a total of 248 passions and 228 virtues” (see English language edition, page 205, Volume 3). Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: St. John “of the Ladder” (Climacus, 579-649) was of the opinion that although the passions (пристрасті) were not directly created by God, they are still naturally good, except for akedia-listlessness, despondency.  In Step 26, 156, of his Ladder of Divine Ascent, he writes: “Nature gives us the seed for childbearing, but we have perverted this into fornication.  Nature provides us with the means of showing anger against the serpent, but we have used this against our neighbour.  Na¬ture inspires us with zeal to make us compete for the virtues, but we compete in evil.  It is natural for the soul to desire glory, but the glory on high.  It is natural to be over¬bearing, but against the demons.  Joy is also natural to us, but a joy on account of the Lord and the welfare of our neighbour.  Nature has also given us resentment, but to be used against the enemies of the soul.  We have received a desire for food, but not for profligacy.”   Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: It is when we use our free will to misdirect the passions from the good towards the evil, that we allow the passions to gain control over us.  This, in turn, is how the thieves, or demons, are empowered by us to rob us of eternal life.  A helpful passage on this latter point regarding what demons do, is to be found in the homily at: https://www.holycross-hermitage.com/blogs/articles-sermons/sermon-for-the-sunday-of-st-john-climacus-2017
undefined
Jul 16, 2020 • 1h 7min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Twenty

Tonight we concluded letter 20, where the Saint leads the young Anastasia to a deeper understanding of the nature of the Fall and the illness that arises from it. Again St. Theophan reflects with her on the experience of Adam and Eve. They turn away from God in a way that is blasphemous and hostile. They deny His benevolence and seek for themselves self-rule; embracing the illusion that they can become gods.  St Theophan tells Anastasia that God will not violate their self-rule but rather allow them to experience the consequence of their own freedom. They become self-absorbed and for the first time the phrase “I myself” is used.  The order of life and the order within the soul is perverted. The passions become, as it were, inbred and take over the soul like a horde of approaching enemies. We must have no illusion that this is anything but an illness. Furthermore, we must understand that we’ve been overcome by alien tyrants and we set aside our dignity for the worst kind of slavery. We have set aside hope and joy for what promises only darkness and sorrow. --- Text of chat during the group: Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: The Struggle With Passions by I.M. Kontzevich Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: describes the stages from first being a thought to becoming a passion or vice. Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: you can access it at http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/struggle.aspx Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: the official catechism of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, Christ Our Pascha identifies five stages but numbers and discusses them slightly differently than I M Kontsevich above. this catechism can be accessed at http://catechism.royaldoors.net/catechism/ see paragraphs 788 thru 795 Wayne Mackenzie: That we might spend the rest of our life in peace and repentance, let us ask the Lord. from the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom Mary McLeod: Aquinas also describes the punishment for the fall very similarly (Summa II-II): But inasmuch as through sin man's mind withdrew from subjection to God, the result was that neither were his lower powers wholly subject to his reason, whence there followed so great a rebellion of the carnal appetite against the reason: nor was the body wholly subject to the soul; whence arose death and other bodily defects. For life and soundness of body depend on the body being subject to the soul, as the perfectible is subject to its perfection. Consequently, on the other hand, death, sickness, and all defects of the body are due to the lack of the body's subjection to the soul. It is therefore evident that as the rebellion of the carnal appetite against the spirit is a punishment of our first parents' sin, so also are death and all defects of the body. Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: in his work On the Incarnation St Athanasius the Great was of the opinion that humanity would devolve figuring out new and better ways of sinning, ways for the body and soul to rebel against the God-intended ascendency of the spirit. Wayne Mackenzie: Gender Ideology is a good example. Joe and Larissa: Bl Fr Alexander Schmeman. - life is about how we deal with what we are dealt  
undefined
Jul 9, 2020 • 60min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Nineteen

Tonight we read the 19th letter of the Saint to the young Anastasia and the beginning of the 20th. Theophan finally comes to the point of describing for her the seed of inner confusion that we experience as human beings, our ancestral sin. We struggle with a disordered state, a disease, that has become deeply rooted within us and given rise to the worst of destructive forces - the passions. It is not natural! In other words,  God has not created us in this fashion. Our forebearers took a path that led them away from God and, as it were, casts the gifts that He had bestowed upon them back in His face. They treated God not as benevolent and loving but as an obstacle to their happiness. The loss was immeasurable. Theophan wants Anastasia to have as her deepest conviction the fact that  this disorderliness is not what God intended. She must fight against the view that there is no hope for a cure, that there is no hope for the dignity of the humanity to be restored. This must be our fight as well. The passions destroyed our consciousness of self and freedom. In the face of this we must make our one goal in life to abide in God in every way and to rejoice in Him alone. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:47:43 Mary Schott: Is it not "natural" because the loss of preternatural gifts? 00:52:24 Eric Williams: If you want to read a saint who doesn't make *anything* sound easy, I highly recommend Ephraim the Syrian. :) 00:59:46 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: I think that "loss of preternatural gifts" is a western term or concept. Generally speaking Eastern Christian authors speak or write from the point of view that sin makes us sub-natural whereas holiness is natural to the human condition. One has to translate in the back of one's mind ... in the west the term "supernatural" is used where Easterners use "natural", and the western "natural" is "sub-natural" in the East. 01:08:45 Joe and Larissa Tristano: Fr John, agreed, amartyia, Greek for sin means to “miss the mark” - the passions are birth defects of the soul 01:08:53 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: ...and so, in the East, a "sub-natural" human being is thus "sub-human" or "inhumane", and the holy person is "natural" and "human". 01:09:10 Joe and Larissa Tristano: Yes! Christ being THE Human! 01:09:19 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: exactly!!! 01:15:09 carolnypaver: Holy gifts to holy people…. 01:21:18 Mary McLeod: Thanks everyone!  
undefined
Jul 2, 2020 • 1h 5min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Eighteen Part II

Tonight we concluded letter 18 to the young Anastasia. The Saint works very hard to help her understand what the “one thing needful” for us is as Christian men and women. We must subordinate all things to the spiritual and in doing so this brings about a kind of harmony within the person; a harmony of thoughts, feelings, desires, undertakings, relationships, and pleasures. Simply put the St. Theophan tells us, this is “Paradise”. It is to live in the peace and the love of the kingdom. It is this that we must guard and protect and we must learn the ways that such harmony can devolve into disorder. While there can be external influences that disrupt our lives, Saint Theophan warns Anastasia this sympathy for the things of the world already exists within us in a subtle fashion. The disorder and confusion that we experience within is fed by the turbulence of the world and then once again re-enters the human heart. But make no mistake, he states; it begins within and with a predisposition toward sympathy with the things of the world. It is the nature of the interior disposition and its origin that Theophan will discuss in the next letter. --- Text of chat during the Zoom meeting: 01:04:21 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: just a reminder: "how to form an orthodox Christian conscience" would help us to understand the things that St Theophan and his contemporaries would have taken for granted as familiar to members of a a devout Christian family..... http://www.pravmir.com/how-to-form-an-orthodox-conscience/#ixzz3e6KPm2PA  
undefined
Jun 25, 2020 • 1h 3min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Seventeen Part II and Letter Eighteen Part I

Tonight we completed letter 17 and began letter 18 of the Saint to the young Anastasia. Once again St. Theophan works very hard to keep the young woman focused, so that she does not lose sight of the simple yet comprehensive view of the Christian life and fidelity to the gospel.    God is served and loved in what is right before us and in those that He has put along our path. There is no station in life, no set of circumstances where God is absent. We must not think in an abstract way about our faith but rather seek to embrace the smallest things with love, seek to receive the grace of God in the smallest actions with gratitude. As the Gospel tells us, God entrusts us with small things and when we have embraced these with love and fidelity only then will He entrust us with greater things. There’s a kind of hubris that we fall into as Christians in imagining ourselves doing great things or extraordinary things as the Saints. We don’t realize that the sanctity is found simply in mortifying our own will, and setting aside our ego. Love begins at home and in caring for those standing before us.    All of us must hold onto the “one thing needful” - to subordinate all things to the spiritual. It is the love of God that orders all loves. It is the desire for God that orders all other desires and brings us to experience the joy of the kingdom.   ---- Text of chat during the Zoom meeting:   00:34:10 Eric Williams: Theophan's description of individuals doing what they ought having great effect in aggregate reminds me of Smith's Invisible Hand acting in markets. "By pursuing his own interest [an individual] frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good." 00:38:12 Louise Alfer: Some of the greatest saints were porters...St. Andre and Solanus Casey 00:39:59 Eric Ash: I remember also reading of saints in Europe that dreamed of being sent to mission in the New World but were kept to minister in their home countries instead. Seems to have worked out, they became saints after all 00:45:55 Eric Williams: "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." 00:47:54 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Eric, that was the gospel last sunday in the Byzantine lectionary (Third Sunday after Pentecost) with the epistle from Romans helping to define God's righteousness. 00:57:48 Eric Ash: Maybe I'm the only ignorant one that had to look it up but darning a sock is to repair a hole usually by sewing by hand. 00:59:25 Natalia Wohar: On this topic of saints, I recommend a recently released movie called A Hidden Life about Blessed Franz Jagerstatter : ) 01:04:20 Ren's Kingdom of Neatness and Organization: Active love is a harsh and fearful thing compared with love in dreams. Love in dreams thirsts for immediate action, quickly performed, and with everyone watching. Indeed, it will go so dar as the giving even of one’s life, provided that it does not take long but is soon over, as on stage, and everyone is looking on and praising. Whereas active love is labor and perseverance, and for some people, perhaps, a whole science. - Father Zosima, The Brothers Karamazov, Fyodor Dostoyevsky 01:04:42 Eric Williams: Who says we don't run out screaming? ;) 01:07:46 Eric Williams: Man, this group really serves as a necessary examination of conscience. Being patient and gentle, loving people who are difficult to love, is a major struggle for me. As anyone who knows me is aware, so is biting my tongue. 01:08:26 carolnypaver: Group Spiritual Direction. 01:17:48 Katharine: P.S. I'm guessing the bookbinder girls were doing pro bono (or very poorly paid) work to manufacture pamphlets or tracts containing progressive ideas/propaganda instead of supporting their mothers. 01:18:52 carolnypaver: Thank you, Katharine! 01:19:54 Mary McLeod: Thanks everyone!
undefined
Jun 18, 2020 • 1h 4min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Sixteen Part II and Letter Seventeen Part I

More than anything, letters 16 and 17 reveal to us the heart of St. Theophan. He wants the young Anastasia to be free and her heart to be filled with the peace, the complete peace of the kingdom. Before he teaches her anything about the life of prayer or establishes any rule for her to follow, he wants her to grasp the fact that God is part of her life at every single moment and everything that she does, no matter how small, so long as it is done in love, is pleasing in the eyes of God. How different our lives would be if we could even live this for a single day and taste the sweetness of this peace!  How full our lives would be if we could engage even in the most menial tasks with the freedom of love, eternal love!
undefined
Jun 11, 2020 • 58min

Letters of Spiritual Direction to a Young Soul - Letter Sixteen Part I

Tonight we started reading letter 16 to the young Anastasia. The Saint works very hard to bring this young woman to clarity about the true goal of life. One might even say that he is stern or sarcastic with her and in his humor. But he wants her to know the precious gift and the freedom of living for God completely and understanding that we do not have to torture ourselves by asking what we should do in this life. It is perfectly clear, our goal is God and living in accord with His will and coming to share in His eternal life. This is so simple and comprehensive that there’s a part of us, I think, that fears it, to have our life guided by one thing, the desire for God.   We tend to live our lives in the abstract, what needs to be done out there, what great thing can I be doing or accomplish, what will give me identity and purpose in this world. When this happens we lose sight of our dignity and destiny in Christ. We are made for the kingdom. We are made to be sons and daughters not of this world but of God.   ------ Text of chat during the Zoom meeting:   00:30:27 carolnypaver: When he says someone has opened her eyes, it sounds kind of like Adam and Eve after they sinned. Is that what he is referring to? 00:37:04 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: I thought it was a little sarcastic. She's saying she's vegetating at home, doing nothing important, whereas in reality she was learning how to practice holiness and the virtues within the home environment and duties of interacting with family, so in saying "only now has someone opened your eyes" St Theophan is sort of like imitating God when God said to Adam and Eve, "O you're naked, but who told you that you were naked?" 00:38:43 carolnypaver: Thank you! 00:43:41 Eric Williams: Perhaps I misheard, but I don't think you have the Latin meaning of "infatuate" right. It means "to make foolish", from the adjective "fatuus", "foolish". If I misheard you, I apologize. 00:44:56 carolnypaver: If I say it enough times it MUST be true! 00:47:01 Chad Whitacre: “Long ago, fatuous meant "illusory," after ignis fatuus, the strange light (literally "foolish fire") that sometimes appears at night over marshy ground. The word's Latin root - the fatuus we see in ingis fatuus - is also behind the word infatuate, which once meant "to make foolish," but which now usually means "to inspire with foolish love or admiration." 00:47:21 Chad Whitacre: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/top-10-sophisticated-insults/fatuous 00:48:08 Eric Williams: I was right! :P 00:48:27 Natalia Wohar: To Eric’s credit, the word “foolish” is in the definition haha 00:48:36 Adrienne DiCicco: But not entirely, Eric! :-P 00:48:46 Eric Ash: Than an additional thousand in thanks for being right 00:48:49 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: Acquire the spirit of peace and thoudans will be saved around you. 00:48:53 Fr. John (Ivan) Chirovsky: http://orthochristian.com/63166.html 00:49:07 Mary Schott: But isn't is considered foolish to follow that foolish/fake light? 00:49:43 Mary Schott: both meanings are not mutually exclusive, but rather jointly exhaustive 00:49:49 Katharine Memole: Fr. David and Eric are both right. :) 00:58:12 Mary McLeod: This reminds me of the part of the Screwtape Letters where the head demon says that the person must always be drawn to think of the future or the past, but never the present, so that they will miss all the grace God gives in the moment. 01:09:39 Eric Ash: There is a widely quoted Saint Teresa of Calcutta saying that goes, “If you want to bring peace to the whole world, go home and love your family.” Which is actually a paraphrase of a quote from her Nobel Peace Price acceptance speech “And so, my prayer for you is that truth will bring prayer in our homes, and from the foot of prayer will be that we believe that in the poor it is Christ. And we will really believe, we will begin to love. And we will love naturally, we will try to do something. First in our own home, next door neighbor in the country we live, in the whole world.” 01:12:32 carolnypaver: Christ has become a “virtual reality.” 01:12:33 Natalia Wohar: We should start meeting outside in the grass at the Oratory or in front of Cathy 01:12:39 Wayne Mackenzie: To make room for God, we need to learn to say no. So much of our businesses is the fear of our own death. 01:14:47 Scott: Everyone just wants Eric doing penance.

The AI-powered Podcast Player

Save insights by tapping your headphones, chat with episodes, discover the best highlights - and more!
App store bannerPlay store banner
Get the app