
Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast
David Santistevan from the popular davidsantistevan.com blog dives into the heart of worship leading, worship ministry, songwriting, and making disciples. Discover how you can take your worship leadership to the next level through practical teaching, expert interviews, and the latest resources for worship leaders. From developing a discipleship strategy, engaging your congregation, writing your own songs, leading your best worship, and so much more, this podcast will help you become the worship leader you are called to be.
Latest episodes

Apr 9, 2024 • 49min
#310: Brady Shearer on Helping Churches Navigate the Biggest Communication Shift in 500 Years
Topics Covered:
How Brady got started with digital media/communication
Why churches can’t ignore social media
Why churches and pastors don’t need to be on every platform to succeed with social media
The most surprising social media trend of 2024
The “No Weeks Off” social media strategy
The social ministry mountain and what it means for your church
When churches should use paid ads
The 3 C’s of creating content for social media
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Beyond Sunday Backstage – community worship leader coaching
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
Pro Church Tools
Social Sermons
Nucleus
Show Sponsor #1: Beyond Sunday Backstage (Coaching Community)
The Beyond Sunday Worship Coaching Community is now open! I’ve wanted to create a group coaching community for a while and that time is now!
Beyond Sunday Backstage is a low-cost coaching community designed to give you year-round support as a worship leader.
For $49/month, here’s what’s included:
Bi-Weekly LIVE coaching calls focused on your specific challenges/questions (no need for perfect attendance…make it work for you)
Monthly MASTER CLASSES that dive deep into specific tools, strategies, and tactics for your worship ministry (taught by me and other special guests).
Exclusive guest Q&A’s/hangouts with guests from the Beyond Sunday Podcast
Full access to my beginner keys video course, Learn Worship Keys (plus full access to all future courses).
Downloads of The Worship Songwriter & Beyond Sunday eBooks
Access to an exclusive “Off Facebook” private community of worship leaders
Songwriting training throughout the year and group co-writes with me and others in the community
Exclusive LIVE access to Beyond Sunday Podcast interviews to ask questions (via chat) in real time.
No long term contracts. Cancel anytime. But I know you’re going to love it. Join us backstage!
Show Sponsor
My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.
It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.
First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.
In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do.
So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free.
The post #310: Brady Shearer on Helping Churches Navigate the Biggest Communication Shift in 500 Years appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Apr 1, 2024 • 59min
#309: Ron Kenoly on 80s/90s Worship Music, Pursuing His Presence, & Raising Up Worship Leaders
Topics Covered:
How Ron became a Worship Leader/Pastor
The early days of Integrity Music
How to flow in the Spirit
The authority of the Senior Pastor
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
Lift Him Up by Ron Kenoly
Ron Kenoly Ministries
Show Sponsor
My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.
It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.
First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.
In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do.
So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free.
The post #309: Ron Kenoly on 80s/90s Worship Music, Pursuing His Presence, & Raising Up Worship Leaders appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Mar 25, 2024 • 41min
Darren Mulligan from We Are Messengers on New Music, Loving the Outsider, & The Importance of Touring for Artists
Topics Covered:
Darren’s journey into music (he didn’t sing until he was 27 years old).
Having a heart for the outsiders
Why touring is important for artists
The power of rock & roll
Production stories behind the new We Are Messengers record
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
We Are Messengers
Show Sponsor
My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.
It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.
First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.
In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do.
So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free.
The post Darren Mulligan from We Are Messengers on New Music, Loving the Outsider, & The Importance of Touring for Artists appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Mar 18, 2024 • 52min
#307: Zac Hicks on Using Hymns, Liturgical Creative Elements, & Worship Team Devotions
Prefer to watch the interview? Well here you go!
Show Sponsor
My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.
It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.
First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.
In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do.
So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free.
What You’ll Learn:
The challenge of church planting
A former Worship Pastor’s turned Lead Pastor perspective on worship
What liturgical churches can learn from charismatic churches
What charismatic churches can learn from liturgical churches
The power of worship team devos
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
The Worship Pastor by Zac Hicks
Before We Gather by Zac Hicks
Hymnary.org
The post #307: Zac Hicks on Using Hymns, Liturgical Creative Elements, & Worship Team Devotions appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Mar 12, 2024 • 18min
Why Worship Leaders With Less Talent Can Still Be Amazing Worship Leaders
What I heard that particular day in 2008 would stick with me forever. It would ruminate in my head over and over and still does to this day.
I was just out of college. Excited for the future. Big dreams. I had decided early on in my college career that I was going to pursue worship ministry. I had wrestled with the idea of being pastor or being a worship leader. After much deliberation, I settled on worship.
I had a leader after I came out of college who said to me these words:
David, if you had a better voice. You would be unstoppable.”
Pain. Confusion. Dashed dreams. That hurt. And to be honest with you, it’s something that has stuck with me for a lot of years where. I’ve thought a lot about this. I get where this leader was coming from – they were validating my skills as a musician, as a leader, while also telling me that my voice just wasn’t very good. And so I’ve always wrestled with that sort of inadequacy, that insecurity.
Maybe if I did just have a better voice, then I would be a better worship leader.
God, why didn’t you give me a different voice?
That’s a very unproductive question. Because God makes no mistakes when he creates you, when he creates me. Maybe you are in a similar position. You feel your insecurities, your inadequacies. But what if you could use those to your advantage?
Maybe you had a parent, teacher, or a leader in some way that made you see and feel those insecurities front and center.
Weak voice?
Not much talent?
Unskilled musician?
Introverted?
Too young?
Too old?
Guess what? It doesn’t matter as much as you think. In a worship context you can actually use your weaknesses to an advantage with a shift in your thinking.
Is Talent a Problem?
I hope you’re not taking me as someone who thinks talented people are divas and inauthentic. Or that talent is somehow a weakness. I know many hundreds of incredibly talented worship leaders. When I hear them sing, they light up a room. But also they’re humble, authentic, love Jesus, and they pursue Him.
But I do know that there are thousands upon thousands of worship leaders that are being held back because of what someone has spoken over you or something that you believe about yourself.
Remember this: Worship has less to do with what happens on stage and more about what is happening in the room. Your job as a worship leader is to help people sing.
It’s not so much about finding your voice as much as it is helping the bride of Christ find hers.
The Most Important Question
Here’s the most important question that you can ask in preparation for Sunday: Who’s in the room and how do we connect with them?
If all your energy is spent you your plans, your singing, your playing, and you, you, you – you’ve missed the point. You need to understand your people.
Who are they?
How old are they (generally)?
What do they know about Jesus?
How long have they been in church?
What music do they love?
What songs connect?
The more you know – and the more you take the time to listen – the better worship leader you will be.
Is Talent the Most Important Thing?
I serve churches with staffing with a great organization called Slingshot. There’s an interesting trend we’ve noticed as we help churches find worship leaders – most churches are looking for the top 5-10% of talent.
I get it. You want to hire top talent. And especially when it comes to worship ministry, you want to have a worship leader and a worship team that has the wow factor – gifted, talented, hard working. Talent attracts talent. I totally get that. The problem is that the Church of 500 and the Church of 5,000 are looking for the same person.
But the reality is that there are a whole host of worship leaders who are less talented and getting overlooked. But so many of these worship leaders know how to engage a room – and that is the most important skill.
Again, worship is less about what happens on stage and more about what happens in the room. My friend Bob Sorge says it like this: “I would rather see a forest fire in the congregation than a bonfire on stage.” There are many of churches who are lighting it up, figuratively and literally. The lights, the haze, the band. The amazing songs, the energy, the stage presence, the passion, the talent, the songwriting, the records. I’m not minimizing or downplaying any of it, but you can have all of those things and have a congregation that is dead and disconnected.
The Best in the Room
Just because you’re the worship pastor doesn’t mean that you have to be the best in the room. You’re actually more valuable when you can lead people who are better than you.
Lead others – empower them, lead them, invest in them. You actually bring more value to your church and to your organization when you are a developer and a disciple-maker than you are just being talented on stage.
Lead with sensitivity. Build trust with people. Sing as much as you need and then back off the mic. Get out of the way. Empower your congregation to be the loudest sound in the room.
The post Why Worship Leaders With Less Talent Can Still Be Amazing Worship Leaders appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Mar 4, 2024 • 55min
#305: Mike Janzen on Learning Music, Jazz Techniques, Gear, & All Things Piano [Podcast]
Topics Covered:
Both of our favorite hikes around the world
Classical training vs Improv
How to become a great jazz musician
Mike’s favorite pianos, keyboards, & software instruments
The mystery of the Nord
How to develop your unique sound
Lyric writing vs writing music
Diving into the Psalms
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
Mike Janzen Music
Songs from the Canyon by Mike Janzen
Spitfire Audio Soft Piano
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
So let’s talk about Planning Center. For those of you who are old enough, we often refer to worship leading eras as the pre-Planning Center days and the Planning Center days. It’s that game-changing and that important.
I talk about Planning Center pretty often on here, and if you’re a worship pastor, you might be wondering what more there is to Planning Center for you beyond worship planning and scheduling.
And there is.
Did you know that with a subscription to Planning Center Services you also have free access to another incredibly powerful product People?
With People, you can do things like create a volunteer pipeline to get new volunteers through their application process and then assigned to a team!
In People you can create an online form to get new volunteers, a workflow to help you walk them step-by-step through the training process, and then automatically add them to Services so you can get them scheduled!
And that’s just one way you use Planning Center People, so give it a try! Learn more at planningcenter.com/pipeline
And remember, if your church is looking for tools to help with things like giving, small group chat, event signups, live-streaming, and custom reporting, Planning Center has tools for that too, so let your church administrator know!
The post #305: Mike Janzen on Learning Music, Jazz Techniques, Gear, & All Things Piano [Podcast] appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Feb 15, 2024 • 49min
#304: Chad Gentry on 90’s Worship, Influential Worship Albums, & Worship Music History
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
So let’s talk about Planning Center. For those of you who are old enough, we often refer to worship leading eras as the pre-Planning Center days and the Planning Center days. It’s that game-changing and that important.
I talk about Planning Center pretty often on here, and if you’re a worship pastor, you might be wondering what more there is to Planning Center for you beyond worship planning and scheduling.
And there is.
Did you know that with a subscription to Planning Center Services you also have free access to another incredibly powerful product People?
With People, you can do things like create a volunteer pipeline to get new volunteers through their application process and then assigned to a team!
In People you can create an online form to get new volunteers, a workflow to help you walk them step-by-step through the training process, and then automatically add them to Services so you can get them scheduled!
And that’s just one way you use Planning Center People, so give it a try! Learn more at planningcenter.com/pipeline
And remember, if your church is looking for tools to help with things like giving, small group chat, event signups, live-streaming, and custom reporting, Planning Center has tools for that too, so let your church administrator know!
Topics Covered:
Reminiscing the 90s
The song of the 90s
Chad’s top 5 90s worship records
Guitar solos
What the 90s taught us about leading worship
Lessons from the Brownsville Revival
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
90s Worship Night
Live from Dayspring Community Church by Nineties Worship Night
The post #304: Chad Gentry on 90’s Worship, Influential Worship Albums, & Worship Music History appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Feb 1, 2024 • 54min
#303: Pat Barrett on Spontaneous Worship, Songwriting Methods, & New Music
Prefer to watch the interview? You can view the entire conversation here.
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
So let’s talk about Planning Center. For those of you who are old enough, we often refer to worship leading eras as the pre-Planning Center days and the Planning Center days. It’s that game-changing and that important.
I talk about Planning Center pretty often on here, and if you’re a worship pastor, you might be wondering what more there is to Planning Center for you beyond worship planning and scheduling.
And there is.
Did you know that with a subscription to Planning Center Services you also have free access to another incredibly powerful product People?
With People, you can do things like create a volunteer pipeline to get new volunteers through their application process and then assigned to a team!
In People you can create an online form to get new volunteers, a workflow to help you walk them step-by-step through the training process, and then automatically add them to Services so you can get them scheduled!
And that’s just one way you use Planning Center People, so give it a try! Learn more at planningcenter.com/pipeline
And remember, if your church is looking for tools to help with things like giving, small group chat, event signups, live-streaming, and custom reporting, Planning Center has tools for that too, so let your church administrator know!
Topics Covered:
Songwriting approach
Songwriters Pat looks up to
Production style
The power of live music
The practicalities of spontaneous worship
Songwriting out of spontaneity
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
Shelter by Pat Barrett
The post #303: Pat Barrett on Spontaneous Worship, Songwriting Methods, & New Music appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Jan 23, 2024 • 1h 7min
#302: The Afters on A Theology of Suffering, Mentoring Worship Leaders, and New Music [Podcast]
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
So let’s talk about Planning Center. For those of you who are old enough, we often refer to worship leading eras as the pre-Planning Center days and the Planning Center days. It’s that game-changing and that important.
I talk about Planning Center pretty often on here, and if you’re a worship pastor, you might be wondering what more there is to Planning Center for you beyond worship planning and scheduling.
And there is.
Did you know that with a subscription to Planning Center Services you also have free access to another incredibly powerful product People?
With People, you can do things like create a volunteer pipeline to get new volunteers through their application process and then assigned to a team!
In People you can create an online form to get new volunteers, a workflow to help you walk them step-by-step through the training process, and then automatically add them to Services so you can get them scheduled!
And that’s just one way you use Planning Center People, so give it a try! Learn more at planningcenter.com/pipeline
And remember, if your church is looking for tools to help with things like giving, small group chat, event signups, live-streaming, and custom reporting, Planning Center has tools for that too, so let your church administrator know!
Topics:
The most expensive coffee in the world
Coffee methods
How The Afters got started
Early influences
Advice to young worship leaders
Planning out your speaking moments
Pastoring your team
How to train your replacement
The story behind “God is With Us”
The importance of a theology of suffering
Resources Mentioned:
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
“God is With Us” by The Afters
The post #302: The Afters on A Theology of Suffering, Mentoring Worship Leaders, and New Music [Podcast] appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Dec 22, 2023 • 41min
#301: Jason Kichline on The Founding of OnSong, Building a Company, & Serving Worship Leaders
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
So let’s talk about Planning Center. For those of you who are old enough, we often refer to worship leading eras as the pre-Planning Center days and the Planning Center days. It’s that game-changing and that important.
I talk about Planning Center pretty often on here, and if you’re a worship pastor, you might be wondering what more there is to Planning Center for you beyond worship planning and scheduling.
And there is.
Did you know that with a subscription to Planning Center Services you also have free access to another incredibly powerful product People?
With People, you can do things like create a volunteer pipeline to get new volunteers through their application process and then assigned to a team!
In People you can create an online form to get new volunteers, a workflow to help you walk them step-by-step through the training process, and then automatically add them to Services so you can get them scheduled!
And that’s just one way you use Planning Center People, so give it a try! Learn more at planningcenter.com/pipeline
And remember, if your church is looking for tools to help with things like giving, small group chat, event signups, live-streaming, and custom reporting, Planning Center has tools for that too, so let your church administrator know!
Resources Mentioned
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
OnSong
Topics Covered:
The founding of OnSong
How to build a company
Why OnSong decided to initially create a paid app
What OnSong makes possible for Worship Leaders
When the company had to scale and start to hire employees
The post #301: Jason Kichline on The Founding of OnSong, Building a Company, & Serving Worship Leaders appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.