
WatchCats
Who watches the watch DOGEs? WatchCats is dedicated to fact-checking and analyzing the new US Department of Government Efficiency Service, aka DOGE. Noah Kunin and Julian Sanchez have a combined 40 years of holding the government accountable. We chat with a broad range of experts to help create a smart blueprint to make government more efficient and effective while giving you an insider-look on everything DOGE.
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Latest episodes

Apr 8, 2025 • 56min
Makena Kelly & Vittoria Elliot: Covering Silicon Valley in DC | WatchCats #9
For more than 30 years, Wired has been where discerning nerds go for some of the sharpest tech coverage around—but as Silicon Valley exerts ever greater influence over Washington, its writers have been proving time and again that they’re also happy to scoop the traditional press on vital political stories. If you’re trying to keep up with DOGE, their coverage is essential reading.Much of the best of that reporting has recently come from the keyboards of Senior Writer Makena Kelly and Platforms and Power Reporter Vittoria “Tori” Elliot.In a scant few weeks, they’ve explored explored DOGE’s plan to rewrite Social Security’s source code, mapped its myriad corporate connections, audited its approach to auditing, and pulled back the curtain on”Elon Musk’s digital coup.”Makena and Tori joined us for a wide-ranging conversation about their reporting—and where they hope to shine the spotlight next. If you have tips, you can reach them at vittoria89.82 or makenakelly.32 on Signal.~~~Want to support the podcast, get early episodes, and jump into our community Discord?Join our Substack!--FOLLOW OUR SOCIALS--XBlueSky

Apr 2, 2025 • 40min
Itir Cole: Preventing a Pandemic (or Not) | WatchCats #8
It’s a horror movie scenario: People are suddenly falling ill in a small area. Is it food poisoning? Is it a virus? What do the victims have in common? Is a local farm contaminated, or is another global pandemic brewing?Itir Cole was working on software to help hospitals report symptoms that the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) would use to trace the contours of the threat when DOGE took control. And it quickly became clear they weren’t interested in the answers.Concluding our series of interviews with U.S. Digital Service alumni, we explore why Cole is no longer working to answer these questions—and what she’s doing next.~~~Want to support the podcast, get early episodes, and jump into our community Discord?Join our Substack!--FOLLOW OUR SOCIALS--XBlueSky

Mar 28, 2025 • 34min
Amy Paris: Coding for Better Organ Transplants | WatchCats #7
Every day, an estimated 17 people die while waiting for an organ transplant, even as viable organs go to waste. As a deputy digital services lead at the Department of Health and Human Services, Amy Paris was working hard to bring that number down by modernizing and improving the algorithm that hospitals use to match organs with the compatible nearby donors who need them most urgently.Her performance reviews were glowing. But in February, she was summarily fired, purportedly for “poor performance.”Until her termination Paris had also been one of the highest ranking trans women in the federal government, and drawing on her experience and connection to the trans community to craft policies less hostile to trans folks—like the “X” gender marker on passports, and more sensitive security screenings at airports.Have a listen to our conversation, and let us know whether it sounds like the government is more “efficient” without Amy Paris.~~~Want to support the podcast, get early episodes, and jump into our community Discord?Join our Substack!--FOLLOW OUR SOCIALS--XBlueSky

Mar 25, 2025 • 57min
Jonathan Kamens: A DOGE Casualty at Veterans Affairs | WatchCats #6
This week we’re doing something a little bit different: We’re kicking off a series of interviews with alumni of the United States Digital Service (USDS), now rebranded the “United States DOGE Service,” where Elon Musk’s youthful band of chainsaw-wielders are formally housed.In many ways the USDS is a model of all that DOGE purports to be seeking to accomplish: It deployed skilled technologists, often with impressive résumés in private sector tech, to a wide range of government agencies with a mission to streamline and modernize operations, making them more efficient and less wasteful. Instead of benefitting from their experience, Musk has opted to effectively dismantle the agency, with many staffers unceremoniously fired and others resigning in protest.This week we’re presenting several of their stories—talking about the work they were doing at USDS, how they found their way into federal service, and why they’re no longer there. We’ll leave it to our listeners to decide whether their departure makes the federal government any more efficient.Our first guest in the series is Jonathan Kamens, a cybersecurity professional seconded to Veterans Affairs, where he worked on securing their public-facing website. He’s publicly described the circumstances of his departure in an op-ed for The Hill we think is well worth reading.~~~Want to support the podcast, get early episodes, and jump into our community Discord?Join our Substack!--FOLLOW OUR SOCIALS--XBlueSky

Mar 11, 2025 • 60min
Keith Ellison: Fighting DOGE in the Courts | WatchCats #5
In this discussion, Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison shares insights into the ongoing litigation against the new administration's controversial executive orders. Ellison, a former U.S. Congressman, sheds light on lawsuits challenging DOGE's access to Treasury systems and the delegation of unprecedented power to Elon Musk. He highlights the essential role of state attorneys general in defending democracy and the complexities of federal civil procedures. The conversation also delves into the implications for consumer protection and calls for greater congressional accountability.

Feb 27, 2025 • 57min
Kate Conger and Ryan Mac: Moving Fast and Breaking Things, at Twitter and the Federal Government | WatchCats #4
Kate Conger, a New York Times tech reporter and co-author of "Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter," joins Ryan Mac to dissect the ramifications of Elon Musk's leadership style. They unveil striking parallels between Musk’s Twitter strategies and his approach to federal governance, highlighting issues like chaotic layoffs and reliance on vague metrics. The discussion also delves into the culture of fear instilled by Musk, the dangers of misleading social media statistics, and the urgent need for community engagement in tech management.

Feb 24, 2025 • 1h 48min
Tarah Wheeler: Legacy Systems, Insider Threats, Rules vs Norms, Efficiency for Whom? | WatchCats #3
Tarah Wheeler, CEO of Red Queen Dynamics and a prominent cybersecurity expert, dives deep into pressing issues surrounding legacy systems and their vulnerabilities. She discusses the alarming risks in critical sectors like healthcare and finance, emphasizing the importance of the CIA triad. The conversation also highlights the implications of government IT access control, recent cybersecurity breaches, and the need for modern strategies amidst outdated infrastructures. Additionally, Tarah challenges the influence of neo-reactionary ideologies on efficiency and bureaucracy.

Feb 12, 2025 • 1h 28min
Henry Farrell: Weaponizing Infrastructure, Controlling Chokepoints, "Efficiency" as Governance | WatchCats #2
We're back! After reacting to Elon Musk's latest Bart Simpson level trolling on X, we talk briefly on how we're going to ramp up production in order to meet the deluge of news and noise coming out of DOGE. Our guest this week is Professor Henry Farrell, from the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. Prof. Farrell was the 2019 recipient of the Friedrich Schiedel Prize for Politics and Technology and his latest book (along with Prof. Abraham Newman at Georgetown) is Underground Empire: How America Weaponized the World Economy. In order to meet the weight of the current historical moment, we shifted our editorial calendar around a bit in bringing Prof. Farrell on because we think there is a deep and poorly understood connection between the norms the United States enforces on infrastructure around the world and how it treats its own deep systems. We thought Profs. Farrell and Newman's recent post on Lawfare, "Elon Musk Weaponizes the Government" provides one of the first framework and abstraction to understand what's going on. Take a listen and let us know what you think on our socials! ~~~Want to support the podcast?Join our Substack!--SOCIALS--XBlueSky--LINKS REFERENCED--The Unaccountability Machine by Dan DaviesRecoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better by Jennifer Pahlka

Jan 27, 2025 • 57min
Mikey Dickerson: Origin of USDS, Presidential Attention Currency, DOGE Data Difficulties | WatchCats #1
In our first full episode, we interview Mikey Dickerson, the first Administrator of the United States Digital Service (USDS) – which the Trump Administration has now renamed to the US DOGE Service. We discuss his personal origin with USDS, how things get done behind the scenes in the Executive Office of the President (EOP), and the potential impacts of the DOGE Executive Order.~~~Want to support the podcast?Join our Substack!--SOCIALS--XBlueSky

Jan 27, 2025 • 3min
Noah Kunin and Julian Sanchez: Who watches the Watch DOGEs? | WatchCats #0
Noah Kunin and Julian Sanchez introduce the idea behind WatchCats!~~~Want to support the podcast? Join our Substack!--SOCIALS--XBlueSky
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