For the Life of the World / Yale Center for Faith & Culture

Today’s episode is part 2 of a 5-part book club series produced and hosted by Kelly Corrigan. The PBS host and author of four New York Times bestselling memoirs is taking a deep dive into the latest book from the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. Written by Miroslav Volf, Matt Croasmun, and Ryan McAnnally-Linz, Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most, the book is based on a Yale College course that takes up some of the most pressing questions of life, but doesn’t keep the implications, challenges, confusion, and demands of those questions at arms length. Both the course and the book invite life-long learners to ask, “For any idea, if that idea were true, how would your life have to change?”In this episode, Kelly convenes a podcast book-club with two really cool friends: Kate Bowler—host of the Everything Happens podcast and Associate Professor of American Religious History at Duke Divinity School—and celebrated actress Claire Danes, who starred in the Showtime series Homeland and the 90s MTV hit series My So-Called Life.If you’re interested in reading along with Kelly, Kate, and Claire, please visit lifeworthlivingbook.com—that’s where you can find links to buy the book and a free discussion guide when you sign up for the Life Worth Living email list.About Kelly CorriganKelly Corrigan has written four New York Times bestselling memoirs in the last decade, earning her the title of “The Poet Laureate of the ordinary” from the Huffington Post and the “voice of a generation” from O Magazine.  She is curious and funny and eager to go well past the superficial in every conversation.  More on KellyCorrigan.com.Production NotesThis episode featured Kelly Corrigan, Kate Bowler, and Claire DanesEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Kaylen Yun, and Logan LedmanSpecial thanks to Tammy Stedman, Kelly Corrigan, and the Warren Smoot Carter III and Meagan Carter Charitable FundA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

"Your life is too important to be guided by anything less than what matters most."Part 1 of a 5-part book club series on Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most. Written by Miroslav Volf, Matt Croasmun, and Ryan McAnnally-Linz, the book is based on a Yale College course that takes up some of the most pressing questions of life, but doesn’t keep the implications, challenges, confusion, perplexity, and demands of those questions at arms length. Both the course and the book invite life-long learners to ask, “For any idea, if that idea were true, how would your life have to change?”Later in the series, Kelly is joined by Kate Bowler—host of the Everything Happens podcast and Associate Professor of American Religious History at Duke Divinity School—and actress Claire Danes of the Showtime series Homeland and the '90s MTV series My So-Called Life.This series is produced and hosted by Kelly Corrigan and was originally featured on the Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast and Kate Bowler's Everything Happens podcast.If you’re interested in reading along with Kelly, Kate, and Claire, please visit lifeworthlivingbook.com—that’s where you can find links to buy the book and a free discussion guide when you sign up for the Life Worth Living email list.About Kelly CorriganKelly Corrigan has written four New York Times bestselling memoirs in the last decade, earning her the title of “The Poet Laureate of the ordinary” from the Huffington Post and the “voice of a generation” from O Magazine.  She is curious and funny and eager to go well past the superficial in every conversation.  More on KellyCorrigan.com.Show NotesFor more information about Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most, visit lifeworthlivingbook.com.Production NotesThis podcast featured Kelly Corrigan, Miroslav Volf, Matt Croasmun, and Ryan McAnnally-LinzSpecial thanks to Tammy Stedman, Kelly Corrigan, and the Warren Smoot Carter III and Meagan Carter Charitable FundA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Experimental psychologist and cognitive scientist Justin Barrett joins Evan Rosa to discuss the unique qualities of being human, including executive function, hypersociality, and specialized knowledge acquisition. They explore the concept of the Imago Dei as a blueprint for individuality and discuss the psychological and biological underpinnings of human culture and the impact of technology on our biological niche.

We tend to take these claims for granted: “Human beings are essentially relational.” “No man is an island.” “We’re created for connection.” “We’re made for relationships.” And testing the limits of this can be pretty much diabolical. Evan Rosa traces two stories of parental deprivation: Harry Harlow's "Monkey Love Experiments" and the horror of 1990's discovery of Romanian asylums for orphans, documented in the 1990 report "The Shame of a Nation,” on 20/20.Then psychologist Mari Clements (Glenville State College, formerly Fuller School of Psychology) discusses the importance of healthy marriage dynamics for young children’s development and how it provides a secure emotional base; the relational imago Dei; the close emotional bonds that must take place early in life in order to provide the relational stability relational creatures need; we talk about important phases of human development, into adulthood; and the theological backdrop to these questions of the human drive and need for emotional connection.This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of Blueprint 1543. For more information, visit Blueprint1543.org.About Mari ClementsMari Clements is Associate Vice President for Academic Affairs and Professor of Psychology at Glenville State College. Prior to this, she taught at Fuller School of Psychology and Penn State University.Show NotesWe tend to take these claims for granted: “Human beings are essentially relational.” “No man is an island.” “We’re created for connection.” “We’re made for relationships.” And testing the limits of this can be pretty much diabolical.Harry Harlow’s Monkey Love Experiments—Rhesus Monkeys (Video)“The Shame of a Nation,” 20/20 (1990) (Video)How family dynamics and marital conflict impacts children“If you stay in your marriage for the sake of the children, then you deserve, and your child deserves, for you to work on your marriage for the sake of the children. Just being together is actually not better for kids. The kids who look really bad are the kids whose parents are engaged in repetitive and nasty and awful conflict. And they're not getting good models for how to solve problems in their own relationships. They're not getting good models for what to expect from marriage. They're not getting good models for what that marriage relationship is supposed to be.”Even four-year-olds notice when parents are in conflict.Marriage as a secure emotional base for children.Parenting together as stewardship and sacred responsibility“In your relationship, you should glorify God better together than you would separately.”“There's a very important connection between how it is that children see their parents and how it is they typically see God.”Conditional love can produce an earning mindset in a child, not just with respect to the parent, but to God.Don’t be a Karen-parent who thinks their child can do no wrong.“That's the interesting thing about people, even when they're doing terrible things, they often are doing them for good reasons, right? In therapy you can hear couples say incredibly hurtful and awful things to each other.”The relational image of GodStudy of Infants in Orphanages during World War I and World War II: Infants with physical needs taken care of still wasted away and even died without human contact.God as Trinity, Jesus as IncarnationalRelating rightly to our neighborsImpact of spousal treatment on how children treat parents and others.Wire Monkey vs Soft and Cuddly MonkeyA close emotional bond must take place early in life in order to provide the relational stability relational creatures need.Definition of adulthoodBabies can do amazing things.Still Face ExperimentIntellectual vs Relational definitions of the Imago DeiIntellectual disabilityBringing psychology into the service of theologyProduction NotesThis podcast featured Mari ClementsEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge and Kaylen YunA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/giveThis episode was made possible in part by the generous support of Blueprint 1543. For more information, visit Blueprint1543.org.

"Theology is truth-apt and truth-aimed." Too often the faith-science debate ends up a zero-sum game where either science or theology overstep their bounds. But analytic theologian Oliver Crisp (University of St. Andrews, Scotland) describes a tapestry of knowledge that requires the best of both worlds. In this episode he discusses the purpose and future prospects of theology in light of empirical and experimental science. How might science, philosophy, and theology can work together to help us understand human uniqueness? Can science help us better understand the imago Dei?About Oliver CrispOliver D. Crisp (PhD, University of London; DLitt, University of Aberdeen) is the Principal of St. Mary's College, Head of the School of Divinity, Professor of Analytic Theology, and Director of the Logos Institute at the University of St. Andrews, Scotland. He has written or edited numerous books, including The Word Enfleshed, Analyzing Doctrine, Deviant Calvinism, and Jonathan Edwards among the Theologians.Production NotesThis podcast featured theologian Oliver CrispEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge & Kaylen YunA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/giveThis episode was made possible in part by the generous support of Blueprint 1543. For more information, visit Blueprint1543.org.

Is your faith a house of cards? If you were wrong about one belief would the whole structure just collapse? If even one injury came to you, one instance of broken trust, would the whole castle fall? If one element was seemingly inconsistent or incompatible—would you burn down the house?This depiction of the psychology of faith is quite fragile. It falls over to even the lightest breath. But what would a flexible faith be? Resilient to even the heaviest gusts of life’s hurricanes. It would adapt and grow as a living, responsive faith.This metaphor isn’t too far off from the Enlightenment-founding vision of Rene Descartes—whose Meditations sought to build an edifice of Christian faith on a foundation free from doubt, ambiguity, uncertainty, or falsehoods. Even the slightest of doubts had to be categorically obliterated in order to prove the existence of God and the reality of the soul. He was clear about this in the preface. This was a work of apologetics. And he thought a good offense is your best defense. So he went on a whack-a-mole style doubt-killing spree that he hoped would secure a faith built on certainty.Now, here’s a question for you: Does a quest for certainty strengthen and fortify the Christian faith? Or does it leave you stranded on the top floor of a house of cards?Today, we’re continuing our series on Bringing Psychology to Theology, with a closer look at what to do about doubt, uncertainty, and ambiguity, in all sorts of stakes, but especially when it comes to faith.In this series we’ve been exploring the tools of psychological science that might contribute to a deeper, greater, more nuanced theological understanding of the world.We began the series by establishing certain normative questions about the integration of psychology and theology—experimental psychologist Justin Barrett offered to Miroslav Volf the suggestion that to build your cathedral of theology, you need the tools of psychological sciences.Then, developmental psychologist Pamela King offered a vision of thriving that expresses the dynamic, human telos or purpose throughout our lifespan. Research psychologist Julie Exline followed with a psychological exploration of spiritual struggle and one of the most embattled and suppressed of human emotions: anger at God.In this episode, I’m joined by Elizabeth Hall of Biola University’s Rosemead School of Psychology. She’s both a clinically trained therapist, helping people deal with life’s difficulties, as well as a psychological researcher exploring human spirituality, personality and character traits, women’s mental health, and human relationships. Most recently she co-authored Relational Spirituality: A Psychological-Theological Paradigm for Transformation, and I asked her to come on the show to talk about her recent work on tolerance for ambiguity in a life of faith.Here we discuss the domains of psychology and theology and what it means for each to “stay in their lane”; she introduces a distinction between implicit and explicit knowledge, and identifies the social- and self-imposed pressure to know everything with certainty; we reflect on the recent trends toward deconversion from faith in light of these pressures; and she offers psychologically grounded guidance for approaching doubt and ambiguity in a secure relational context, seeking to make the unspoken or implicit doubts explicit. Rather than remaining perched upon our individualized, certainty-driven house-of-card faith; she lays out a way to inhabit a flexible, resilient, and relationally grounded faith, tolerant of ambiguity and adaptive and secure amidst all our winds of doubt.About Elizabeth HallM. Elizabeth Lewis Hall (PhD, Rosemead School of Psychology) is professor of psychology at Rosemead School of Psychology at Biola University, where she teaches courses on the integration of psychology and theology. She has published over 100 articles and book chapters and serves as associate editor for Psychology of Religion and Spirituality. She lives in Whittier, California, with her husband, Todd, and her two sons.Show NotesRelational Spirituality: A Psychological-Theological Paradigm for TransformationOn the integration of psychology and Christianity in lifeVocationally; psychology is the “little area of God’s creation” where she gets to work, she attempts to bring it back to Jesus’s lordshipJesus as owner of allIntellectually; if all truth is God’s truth, she is trying to get the most complete sense of what humans are all aboutGod gave us the capacity to study using psychologyFaith, theology, and religion lend themselves into a psychological domain more than other fields, providing rich content that comes together easily with what the Bible says about humans.What helps the intellectual puzzle pieces come together for you?“I need to allow theology and psychology to stay in their lanes. I can’t expect more from each discipline than what it is constructed to offer.”Ex: Psychology gets in trouble when making prescriptive statements (vs descriptive)People are seeking clinical based advice for how to live better“When someone sits down with a client to help them with whatever they're dealing with, they do have notions of human flourishing in the background that, whether they've thought through it or not, are going to come up in the course of how the therapy is steered.”Defining flourishing is not easy, so choosing criteria becomes difficult for psychologyWhat does it mean when doubt enters the mind? When we act on doubts?It is difficult to be a Christian with questions about your faith in this current moment.Social Pressure:We are continually being confronted with people who live and think differently than us, and who seem to be doing well in life, opposed to the homogenous communities we historically lived in.Intellectual pressure:We naturally want to seek truth that is certain.There is a strand of Christianity where we’ve reduced what faith is to an intellectual ascent to the affirmations of our faith.What is it to know something? What might psychologists be working with as definitions of knowledge that would offer alternatives to knowledge as certainty?A useful distinction from cognitive scientists has been the definition between the explicit and implicit knowingWe know important things about the world at an implicit level:Via nervous systems, without wordsEmotions and relationshipsWhat are the ways that gut knowledge comes to us, relationally or culturally?Our initial reaction to something in our environment is immediately a “push or pull” towards or against that thing. Then it becomes refined by past experiences (culture, past relationships, etc.) This then shapes what happens on the conscious level.Being aware of that psychological force between our unconscious and conscious thought becomes important when breaking down doubt in a religious context.Hall grew up in the Evangelical church, feeling certain that faith was set of propositions about Jesus and God that was very certain.Early church had more of an interpersonal dimension to faith, centering on trust and loyalty.Relying on propositions/blanket statement of Christian faith creates a “house of cards” vision of faith: If you pull one card out, all come down.This relates to an intellectual need for certainty, but there is also a social dimension to this stackGuilt by association: disgust, remorse, shame, around the association of a particular belief with Christianity, which can feed all the way back to one’s experience of GodThis becomes particularly heightened when the larger culture is confronting/criticizing these beliefs or institutionsOur experienced relationship of God also has implicit foundationsStudies on deconversion show that people who turn from Christianity find that the reason is usually a perceived injury (with God, another person, the church) that sets off the processMany people say “science” is the reason, but it’s not actually until the betrayal of trust comes in that most people start cognitively deconvertingMost of our shaping and life happens outside of our conscious awarenessPsychology does not understand well how the explicit knowledge systems can influence our implicit beliefsTwo kinds of doubt:Explicit: content, perceived competing claims with Christianity and (usually) scienceImplicit: betrayal of trust. God has let a person downDifferent people will encounter the same perceived discrepancy and will experience it in vastly different ways.It is difficult to be a thoughtful creature and not wonder at how things fit togetherSome people may meet a discrepancy and decide their whole life has been built on a lieThe factors that allow a person to entertain doubts with more confidence:Solid relational attachments (such as parental) early in childhoodHelps a person to be overwhelmed by a question because they know they have faced and managed similar situations beforeBeing okay with doubt: some people can live with it, intellectual resilienceIf it’s very threatening, you have to do something because you can’t live in a state of constant tension: deconverting is one possible solutionTension: literal physiological arousalHow to help people find their way through the doubt:Try to make what is implicit, explicit. Explore the process of the doubt.Provide a window into a person’s capacity for uncertainty toleranceEnvisioning faith a different way: Rethinking our churches for relational spiritualityThere are ways to be attuned to caring for peoples relational experiences of the love of GodProduction NotesThis podcast featured Elizabeth HallEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge & Kaylen YunA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Sometimes things go wrong. Your British premiere league football club loses a game; maybe your dog eats the birthday party cupcakes; maybe someone cuts you off in traffic. And you get angry—looking for someone to hold responsible.Sometimes things go wrong in even more serious ways. Your kid’s getting bullied or mistreated; the justice system fails you or someone you love; you’re betrayed or deeply hurt by a friend. And you get angry—still looking to hold them responsible, take a form of vengeance, and even if you can muster the strength to forgive and absolve, the anger might persist.But what about when things go so seriously wrong in life that questions of meaning, purpose, and sense of existence come under doubt? When there’s no human left to hold accountable, do you then turn your eyes to God—the creator of all of this, you know: “the whole world in his hands” kinda thing?Have you ever been angry at God?Today, we’re continuing our series all about “Bringing Psychology to Theology” with a look at the psychology of spiritual struggles and specifically, a scientific study of what happens when we get angry at God. In this series we’ve been exploring the tools of psychological science that might contribute to a deeper, greater, more nuanced theological understanding of the world. We started with a conversation between Miroslav Volf and experimental psychologist Justin Barrett. Justin evokes the image of erecting a giant cathedral of theology—and how the task must be done with a variety of tools and subcontracted skills. Then we heard from Pamela Ebstyne King with a developmental approach to thinking about human spirituality, the dynamic nature of human purpose, and how relationships factor in moving from surviving to thriving. The hope for this series is to highlight the prospects of a science-engaged theology and how it might contribute to the most pressing matters for how to live lives worthy of our humanity. In this episode Ryan McAnnally-Linz is joined by research psychologist Julie Exline. She’s Professor of Psychology of Religion & Spirituality at Case Western Reserve University and author most recently of Working with Spiritual Struggles in Psychotherapy: From Research to Practice. Her research has examined forgiveness, humility, and human spirituality, and she’s widely recognized for her work on the psychology of anger at God and religious struggles. In this episode, Julie reflects on the meaning of spiritual struggle, as well as the possible outcomes and factors that contribute to a personal sense of healing and growth. She speaks to the anxiety and fear that seem to hover around an expression of anger toward God, dealing with objections and concerns that it’s immoral or presumes God to be guilty of wrongdoing. And she offers practical considerations in light of the psychological research around what happens when people choose to express their anger at God or not—how different responses of disapproval or acceptance can lead to positive growth or a sense of successfully dealing with the anger.About Julie ExlineJulie Exline is Professor of Psychology of Religion & Spirituality at Case Western Reserve University and author most recently of Working with Spiritual Struggles in Psychotherapy: From Research to Practice. Her research has examined forgiveness, humility, and human spirituality, and she’s widely recognized for her work on the psychology of anger at God and religious struggles.Show NotesWorking with Spiritual Struggles in Psychotherapy: From Research to PracticeSpiritual strugglesThe shadow side of religionResearching the more challenging side of religion and spirituality.Looking at the dark side of things: a defensive pessimist at heartBig picture: coping with challenging events around faithConserving beliefs, fitting things inChoosing to engage struggle: approach God, seek support, or decline and disengagePrayer, talking to God or other trusted peopleStruggling with God versus struggling with another human beingGrowth often comes from staying engaged but addressing the problemBeing angry at GodIs it okay to be angry at God?“Are you sure you should be studying this?”People feel like it’s morally wrong to question God.Beth Moore: Questioning God's Authority vs Asking God QuestionsQuestioning God's authority is sometimes thought to lead people on a path to spiritual decline.Asking God questions can lead people toward growth.Feeling angry at God doesn't imply a lack of respect for God.Anger and Love are independent of one another."Difficulty Forgiving God"—implying that God did something wrong; now using language "resolving anger at God"Anger as a response to injustice.Finding a way to live with the problem of evil: Are people wrestling with anger toward God articulating it in a similar way as those worrying about the problem of evil?Theodicy“Why did God allow…”The role of theological presuppositions in anger with GodChanging beliefs and theological tinkeringResponding to others who wrestle with anger with God: the gift of presenceA response of acceptance and affirmation gave people a higher likelihood of reporting they had grown from the experience of anger at God.A response of disapproval or moral judgment is associated with attempts to suppress the anger, making it more likely to remain, and can even increase the likelihood of substance abuse.Anger with God as part of a healthy, dynamic spiritual lifeAnger as a signal for what mattersThinking about anger as part of an ongoing conversation with God: Two-chair techniqueAnger as an approach-oriented emotion—allows you to approach a problem or issue worthy of our attention.Using anger as an opportunity to clarify and solve a problemJapanese “kintsugi”—golden repairs in the deepest fissures and cracks of life.Practical recommendations for resolving anger with GodExperiential avoidanceClarify your feelings and give yourself space to talk about it“Shouldn't God be able to handle your anger?”You don't have to express your anger disrespectfully; you can show your care and value for the relationship.Production NotesThis podcast featured Julie ExlineEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Kaylen Yun & Macie BridgeA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/giveAcknowledgementsThis episode was made possible in part by the generous support of Blueprint 1543. For more information, visit Blueprint1543.org.

"Usually people think of a telos as an endpoint, but what if we think of telos as a dynamic process that sustains a thriving trajectory for the individual and the world around them? The imago Dei, which is deeply and inherently relational and social—we image God by being our unique selves in unity. So there is the particularity of personhood and the relatedness with other persons, God, and all of creation. And so that was what the reciprocating self was. It's 'How do I grow as a fully differentiated person in relationship and increasing intimacy, increasing contribution with the world around me?' To thrive then is to pursue that fullness of self in the context of intimacy and accountability and relationships—not just with those closest to me ... that's essential—but also in contribution to the world beyond the self.How does our faith, how does our devotion, fuel us to want to continue to reciprocate when life is hard? When there's a pandemic? We need something beyond ourselves, a power beyond ourselves, an orientation beyond ourselves to fuel that interrelatedness between our particularity and the greater good." (Pamela Ebstyne King)IntroductionAt the bedrock of our being as persons is relationality: our ability to be known, to be loved, and to know and love in return. But whoa whoa whoa. Wait a minute. What kind of claim is that? Is that theology or psychology? We’re used to hearing that from the likes of the Jewish existential philosopher and theologian Martin Buber—he’s well known for his suggestion that an intimate I-Thou relationship is what makes for our conscious personhood. It’d be impossible to become an “I” without coming into direct contact with a “You” and seeing it as a “You.” But how interesting that research studies in developmental psychology find just that. You can for instance turn to John Bowlby and the beginnings of attachment theory to find that this theological claim holds up once you start testing it with the tools psychological. But more than holds up, the claim that relationality is fundamental to personhood starts to expand and develop nuance by examining the most universal by application in the unique, particular circumstances. Famous psychological experiments like the “Still Face” show how central the reciprocal response of our earliest attachment figure is for our mental health, even as babies. (Check below for an excruciating video example of the Still Face Experiment.)But this is just one way that developmental psychology might offer some interesting tools to theological reflection. And today we’re continuing a new series of episodes on For the Life of the World all about “Bringing Psychology to Theology”—we’re exploring the tools of psychological sciences that might contribute to a deeper, greater, more nuanced theological understanding of the world. Last week we introduced the series with a conversation between Miroslav Volf and experimental psychologist Justin Barrett. Justin evokes the image of erecting a giant cathedral of theology—and how the task must be done with a variety of tools and subcontracted skills.Well, whether theology is the grand architect of a cathedral of human knowledge or the benevolent and humble Queen of the Sciences—either way we hope this series highlights the prospects of a science-engaged theology and how it might contribute to the most pressing matters for how to live lives worthy of our humanity.My guest in this episode is Pamela Ebstyne King. She’s the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology and is Executive Director of the Thrive Center for Human Development. An ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church USA, her research has focused on the intersections of developmental and positive psychology, human thriving, and spirituality.In this episode, we discuss developmental psych as the observational study of human change and plasticity in the midst of a whole complex life; relational attachment for the sake of intimacy and exploration and ultimate purpose or meaning; the proper place of self-love; God’s enabling and loving presence as the ultimate secure attachment figure; the importance of learning, gaining skills, and the pursuit of expertise; The prospects of regaining emotional regulation through relationships; the game changing impact of deliberate psychological and spiritual practices to move us well beyond surviving to a life of thriving.About Pamela Ebstyne KingPamela Ebstyne King, Ph.D. joined Fuller Theological Seminary as assistant professor of Marital and Family Studies in 2008, after serving in the School of Psychology for eight years as an adjunct and research professor. She was installed in 2014 with a professorship named for her mentor, Peter L. Benson. In 2021 she was promoted to the position of Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science. Dr. King is also executive director of the Thrive Center for Human Development.Dr. King’s academic and applied efforts aim to promote a movement of human thriving that contributes to flourishing societies. Her primary academic interests lie at the intersection of thriving and spiritual development. She is passionate about understanding what individual strengths and environments enable humans to thrive and become all God created them to be. She holds particular interest in understanding the role of faith, spirituality, religion, and virtues in this process. To this end she has led in building an empirical field of study of religious and spiritual development within developmental psychology that provides a psychological scientific perspective of spiritual formation.She has extensively studied and written on conceptualizations of thriving and positive youth development. Her work on telos is noted to provide an interdisciplinary framework for human thriving and flourishing from different philosophical, theological, and cultural perspectives and to provide a structure for understanding practical concepts like purpose, vocation, and joy. Her work combines theology, empirical research, and community engagement to further understand what contexts and settings enable people to thrive. She has conducted research funded by Biologos Foundation, the John Templeton Foundation, the Fetzer Institute, Compassion International, and Tyndale House, among others. In addition to her scholarship, she finds deep joy in teaching and mentoring students at Fuller.Dr. King is coauthor of The Reciprocating Self: Human Development in Theological Perspective and Thriving with Stone Age Minds: Evolutionary Psychology, Christian Theology & Human Flourishing, coeditor of The Handbook of Spiritual Development in Childhood and Adolescence, and coauthor of the inaugural chapter on research on religious and spiritual development in the seventh edition of the Handbook of Child Psychology and Developmental Science. She has served on the editorial boards of Developmental Psychology, Journal of Positive Psychology, Applied Developmental Science, the Encyclopedia of Applied Developmental Science, and the Encyclopedia of Spiritual Development in Childhood and Adolescence. She has also published articles in the Journal on Adolescent Research, Journal of Early Adolescence, New Directions for Child and Adolescent Development, Psychology of Religion and Spirituality, and Journal of Psychology and Christianity. King is a member of the Society for Research on Adolescents, Society for Research on Child Development, and Division 36 of the American Psychological Association.In addition to her studies at Fuller, Dr. King completed her undergraduate studies at Stanford University and a postdoctoral fellowship at Stanford’s Center on Adolescence; she was a visiting scholar under the divinity faculty at Cambridge University. Ordained in the Presbyterian Church (USA), she has led high school and college ministries, and regularly speaks, preaches, and consults for various community organizations and churches. She lives in Pasadena with her husband and three children.Show NotesMartin Buber’s I and ThouJohn Bowlby and Attachment TheoryTrolick’s Still Face Experiment (Video)Justin Barrett & Pamela Ebstyne King, Thriving with Stone Age Minds: Evolutionary Psychology, Christian Faith, and the Quest for Human FlourishingDevelopmental psych as the observational study of human change in the midst of a whole life of complexityPlasticity of the human speciesRelational attachment for the sake of intimacy and explorationThe Impact of environment on genetic expressionLaw if reciprocityFullness of creation, redemption and consummationTheology as establishing ends, and psychology as developing towards gods purposesHow psychology aids in the process of becoming our full selves as selfhoodThe proper place of self-loveGod’s enabling and loving presenceThriving as psychological, vs Flourishing as philosophicalMeaningful life in eudaimonic and hedonistic termsImago dei“Back to the future”—understanding the end toward the beginningReading psychology through a teleological lensLinear stage theories of developmentLife as a series of cyclesWe can have a telos as a dynamic processThriving as pursuing the fullness of selfReciprocity beyond ourselves when life is hardColossians and Jesus as the perfect image of GodConformity is not uniformityParenting as helping children to become their unique selvesTelos as inhabiting the self, the relational, and the aspirational—purpose is found at the intersection of all threeWilliam Damon on purposePurpose as enduring actionable goal, meaningful to the self and contributing beyond the selfLearning, gaining skills, and pursuit of expertiseMeaning making as a dynamic life-long projectOrienting life in the present moment by tethering to a consummate vision of the futureSociality as inherent to human natureGoals: self, expertise acquisition, and what we aspire toRoles: who we are in our social networksSouls: what ideals are most dearly held and most meaningfulThe fundamental rejection of pre autonomy and independence; embrace of our relational selvesHow malleable our brains are through intentional practicesMaking meaning can change your brainsSurviving vs thrivingAttachment and regulationRegaining emotional regulation through relationshipsThe game changing impact of deliberate psychological and spiritual practices—intention, motivation, and goalsPossible cutoff point — The relation of psychological science and theologyPsychology as a God-given tool to enable thriving and flourishingKnown, loved, and loving othersThe role of suffering and loss as part of the thriving processFor the cynical and jaded: thriving that is real to loss, grief, vulnerability, and daring to thriveProduction NotesThis podcast featured Pamela Ebstyne KingEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge and Kaylen YunA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/giveAcknowledgementsThis episode was made possible in part by the generous support of Blueprint 1543. For more information, visit Blueprint1543.org.

Imagine building a cathedral with just a hammer and nails. How might theologians today continue to build the grand cathedral where human knowledge meets divine revelation by implementing the tools of psychological science? Experimental psychologist Justin Barrett joins theologian Miroslav Volf for a conversation on how psychology can contribute to theology. This episode is made possible by Blueprint1543.IntroductionTo a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Yep, we’ve heard that before. But imagine trying to make that work. Imagine, for instance, the visionary builder of a medieval cathedral… building it only with a hammer and nails.And you know there’s an analogy coming here. Suppose the cathedral you’re trying to build is nothing less than the human inquiry into the nature of the cosmos and the nature of the God who created them—from the dark matter at the edges of the expanding universe, to the recycled space dust that’s found its way into the pristine fingernails of a newborn baby.Artfully articulating the nature of reality with nuance and care—saying something true and meaningful about God, people, and thriving in the world we share—the task of theology could be just like that extravagant building project.But imagine if the theologian only had one tool.Experimental psychologist Justin Barrett tells a story like this to make a suggestion to theologians to consider how they might incorporate the tools of science—and psychological science in particular—into the building of their theological cathedral.Justin is long-time researcher in cognitive science of religion. He’s author of a number of books, including Why Would Anyone Believe in God? and Born Believers: The Science of Childhood Religion. He just edited the Oxford Handbook of the Cognitive Science of Religion.And in 2019 he co-founded Blueprint1543, an organization that’s bringing theologians and scientists together to accelerate better contributions to life’s biggest questions.And today we’re launching a series of episodes on For the Life of the World that will explore the tools of psychological sciences that might contribute to a deeper and greater theological understanding of the world. By bringing a science-engaged theology to bear on the most pressing matters for how to live lives worthy of our humanity.Throughout the series, we’re featuring conversations with psychologists who can offer insightful tools for crafting the cathedral where human knowledge meets divine revelation.About Justin BarrettJustin L. Barrett is an honorary Professor of Theology and the Sciences at St Andrews University School of Divinity. An experimental psychologist by training, he is concerned with the scientific study of religion and its philosophical as well as theological implications. He is the author of a number of books including Why Would Anyone Believe in God?, Born Believers: The Science of Childhood Religion, and Religious Cognition in China: Homo Religiosus and the Dragon.Show NotesBlueprint1543.orgDownload your copy of Justin Barrett’s A Psychological Science Primer for Theologians (2022)TheoPsych AcademyNormative vision the good lifePsychology as among the most secular of academic disciplinesPsychology’s historical (but non-necessary) anti-religious tendenciesThere are plenty of Christian psychologists who are deliberate in thinking about the integration of Christianity and psychologyComparing instrumental, explanatory psychology and purposes, meaning, and teleology in theologyHow the purposes of our lives—normative visions—how do they then shape psychological inquiryAre questions of the good life matters for science to determine, or are religious and theological perspectives essential to thinking about the purpose and meaning of human life?When can theologians and philosophers be helped by psychological science?Theologians often make use of psychological claims fairly uncritically—how human minds work, how emotions work, how social relationships workMiroslav’s book The End of MemoryIs the theologian making descriptive psychological claims?Are you the theologian making normative claims supported by descriptive psychological claims?Are you making claims about what affects texts and rituals and practices have on people?Are you constructing an argument that uses intuition as premises?Experimental philosophy: Are philosophers’ intuitions universal?Can there be an “experimental theology”?Being careful about descriptive psychological claims—especially for practical theological questions or lived theologyPsychology needs to do its own inspecting“The science of psychology has a great self-awareness of how we can't trust ourselves. … The entire method is built around, to put it in theological terms, a conviction about total depravity.”Methodological rigor in sciences—checking findings with the communityCultural situatednessE.g., “How well do we know ourselves?”Ludwig Wittgenstein: “The world of a happy man is not the same as the world of a sad man.”“Affective states shape how we perceive the world.”Mary Magdalene’s breaking a precious jar or oil on Jesus’s feet—the smell is refracted through how Judas and Jesus see the world. Judas finds the smell a terrible waste, and Jesus finds the smell beautiful.“What we perceive in the world around us is set by our expectations.”“Every Christian is a theologian because theology accompanies the life and situatedness of each individual in the world.”Production NotesThis podcast featured cognitive scientist Justin Barrett and theologian Miroslav VolfEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/giveAcknowledgementsThis episode was made possible in part by the generous support of Blueprint 1543. For more information, visit Blueprint1543.org.

Micheal O'Siadhail reflects on his latest collection of poetry, Testament. A confession of faith through Psalms refracted through his experience, and the Gospel story retold through rhyme, O'Siadhail's vibrant faith manifests as complaint, longing, grief, mourning, and doubt. With mountains and oceans of poetry written over the past 45 years, he writes on love, loss, modernity, music—all an experiment of drawing the universal down into the particular and right back up again. From Psalm 1, his opening verses, he writes, "Uncloseted, / Things once unsaid my life declares: / My words are prayers my being plays; / Through you I gaze at all I love."This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation. For more information, visit tyndale.foundation.Show NotesClick here to get your copy of Micheal O'Siadhail's Testament (link)Listen to Micheal O'Siadhail and David Ford in Episode 75: "Life Riffs: Improvisation in Poetry, Theology, and Flourishing" (link)Religion versus spiritualityMicheal’s spiritual backgroundPsalm 1—”through you I gaze at all I love”Time and temporality, finitude and mortalityJohn Donne—from sensual love poetry to devotional poetry“This God remains on scene.”Psalm 46—”all my life depends on friends … You are coring me, hollowing me out to love you more.”Dependency in social and spiritual dimensionsCarapace = a shell, something to hide inIndividualism and independence: “We are ourselves only in relation to others.”The “black hole of the self”Hollowing out - “cored out by suffering”Psalm 80: “You, not I, stretched out the sky”Mourning and grieving loved-ones lostComplaining, groaning, doubting—but alongside belief that God is there.“Most only groan to those they love.”Psalm 80: “Why does your night thief keep ambushing me?The tandem psychology of compliant and dependence—and the acceptance of both.“Madam Jazz” in Micheal O’Siadhail’s poetry—wild, unpredictable, improvisational nature of GodThe history of jazz and the God of surprises, riffing on creation.David Ford and The Gospel of JohnThe environmental message of TestamentPsalm 124: “I cry for us in my intensity.”T.S. Eliot: “Old men ought to be explorers”“Distracted by distraction from distraction” (T.S. Eliot, from “Burnt Norton”)Poetry and universal down to particularHebrew morning prayerThe connection between Psalter and Gospel in TestamentGoing from mystical poetry to particular incarnation“Letting the story tell itself.”“I” disappears in Gospel.Two thievesLegacy“Years to leave love’s legacy behind”Tetelestai—finishing one’s callingAbout Micheal O'SiadhailMicheal O'Siadhail is a poet. His Collected Poems was published in 2013, One Crimson Thread in 2015 and The Five Quintets in 2018, which received Conference on Christianity and Literature Book of the Year 2018 and an Eric Hoffer Award in 2020. He holds honorary doctorates from the universities of Manitoba and Aberdeen. He lives in New York.Production NotesThis podcast featured poet Micheal O’SiadhailEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Logan Ledman, and Kaylen YunA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/giveThis episode was made possible in part by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation. For more information, visit tyndale.foundation.