For the Life of the World / Yale Center for Faith & Culture

Silas Farley, former New York City Ballet dancer and current Dean of the Colburn School's Trudl Zipper Dance Institute, explores the profound connections between classical ballet, Christian worship, and embodied spirituality. From his early exposure to liturgical dance in a charismatic Lutheran church to his career as a professional dancer and choreographer, Farley illuminates how the physicality of ballet can express deep spiritual truths and serve as an act of worship.Episode Highlights from Silas Farley“The physicality of ballet is cruciform. The dancer stands in a turned-out position... the body becomes the intersection of the vertical and the horizontal plane.”“Sin makes the soul curve in on itself, whereas holiness or wholeness in God opens us up.”“We are Christian humanists. We don't need to be intimidated by beauty.”“There's knowledge and insight in all the different parts of our bodies, not just in our brain.”“The mystery of the incarnation is that when the creator of all things wanted to make himself known to his creation, he didn't come as a vapor or as a mountain or as a bird. But he came as a man.”Resources for Ballet EngagementLocal community ballet companies/schools“B is for Ballet” (ABT children’s book)“My Daddy Can Fly” (ABT)Celestial Bodies, by Laura JacobsApollo’s Angels, by Jennifer HomansSilas Farley’s Podcast: Hear the Dance (NYC Ballet)The Nutcracker (NYC Ballet/Balanchine)Jewels (1967, Balanchine)Agon (Balanchine/Stravinsky)About Silas FarleySilas Farley is a professional ballet dancer and choreographer. Dean of the Trudl Zipper Dance Institute at the Colburn School in Los Angeles, Silas is a former New York City Ballet dancer, choreographer, and educator. He also currently serves as Armstrong Artist in Residence in Ballet in the Meadows School of the Arts at Southern Methodist University.His work includes choreography for the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Houston Ballet, and the New York City Ballet. He hosts the Hear the Dance podcast and creates works that integrate classical ballet with spiritual themes.Silas also serves on the board of The George Balanchine Foundation.Show NotesSilas Farley’s Early Dance Background & FormationSilas Farley: Originally from Charlotte, North Carolina; youngest of 7 children (4 brothers, 2 sisters); multiracial family (white father, Black mother)First exposure through charismatic Lutheran church’s liturgical dance ministrySaw formal ballet at age 6 when Christian ballet company Ballet Magnifica performedDance initially experienced as form of worship before performanceLiturgical vs Classical BalletLiturgical dance:Amplifies worshipFunctions as embodied prayerNot primarily performativeHistorical examples: David with Ark of Covenant, Miriam after Red Sea crossingClassical ballet:Performed on proscenium stageRequires specific trainingFocuses on virtuosic movementsExplicitly performativeBoth forms serve as offerings/vessels for transmitting energy to audienceTechnical Elements of Ballet: Turnout, Spiritual Turnout, and Opening UpFoundational concept of “turnout”—rotation of feet/hips outward“That idea of turnout makes the body more expressive in a way. Because if our toes are straightforward, like the way we're designed, you only see a certain amount of the leg. Whereas if the body stands turned out, you see the whole inside of the musculature of the leg. It's a more complete revelation of the body.”Creates more complete revelation of body’s musculaturePhysicality conveys “spiritual turnout” - openness/receptiveness“Spiritual turnout: that you are open   and receptive and generous. And that's embodied in the physicality of ballet.”“So much of what developed as ballet as we know, it happened at the court of Louis the XIV in the  1660-1670s.”“It's not artificial, it's actually supernatural.”Physical & Spiritual Connections in Ballet“Our walk  with God is that he's  defining us so that we are becoming open. We're open to him. We're open to receive his love. We're open to be vessels of his love. We're open to receiving and exchanging love with  other people.”Freedom within the constraints movements and positionsSwan Lake: “They're so free. They're almost like birds. But that's come through a lifestyle of discipline.”“You get a hyper awareness of your own body.”Develops hyper-awareness of bodyLinks to incarnational theology—Christ as God-manFreedom through discipline and submissionMovement vocabulary builds from simple elements (plié, tendu)Plie: Mama and Dada“As a dancer grows up in ballet, the dancer then develops  this enormous vocabulary of movement  that are all reducible back to the microcosm of the plié and the tendu.”Creates infinite lines suggesting eternityCombines circular power with eternal linesTheological Dimensions of BalletSilas’s choreographed interpretation of C.S. Lewis’s The Four Loves, as a balletBallet and the Art of Choreography“The music and choreography were like brothers.”“Songs from the Spirit”“The music becomes my map.”Choreographing in silenceThe Role of the Audience and Their ExperienceIdeas to dialogue withA set of ideas to gather together and embodyArvo Part, The Genealogy of Jesus in Luke 3Uniting my heart with JesusI’m never didactic about it.An embodied musical experience“If I  say ‘family, friendship, romance, divine love,’ you all instantly have associations, beauty, pain, trauma, consolation that are associated with those four loves.”“ I'm not writing a sermon about any of these ideas. I'm choreographing a ballet. I'm assembling these classical steps with this music to create a visceral, embodied musical experience.”The audience: “They come to it with their experiences, their own eyes and ears and their own bodies. And that's enough.”Arvo Part: “Music is white light, and the prism is the soul of the listener.”“The musical ideas are refracted through the hearer.”“The audience is always in my heart and mind.”“I always think of the artwork as an act of hospitality.  … I’m just setting the table.”What’s Unique about Ballet as a Physical ArtformBeautiful interconnectednessAsking the body to reach to its limits“The Infinite Line” in BalletRadiating out into multiple eternal lines at the same timeConstant reaching in many directions at onceCruciform positioning: intersection of vertical and horizontal planes“The body becomes radiant”Use of “épaulement”—spiraling of body around spine’s axisReveals pulse points (neck, wrists) creating vulnerable energy exchange with audienceOpening up the life force of the dancerNo separation between dancer and instrument (“I am the work of art”)Cruciform physicalityContemporary Cultural ContextModern culture increasingly disembodied due to screens/digital media“We live in an increasingly disembodied culture, we are absorbed with screens two dimensional, uh, highly edited and curated,  mediated self presentation   as opposed to like visceral nitty gritty blood, sweat, tears, good, bad, and ugly of life itself. So we get insulated from the step that makes life what it is.”Education often treats people as “brains on sticks”“The Christian life is a lifestyle of in embodied discipleship to the God man, Jesus  Christ. And he's not a brain on a stick. He's the God man. He has a jawbone and he went through puberty and he has wounds like the beautiful hymn. It says, rich wounds, yet visible and beauty glorified. The mystery of the incarnation is that when the creator of all things wanted to make  himself known to his creation, he didn't come as a  vapor or as a mountain or as a bird, but he came as a man. And so he sublimates and affirms the glory of his creation, the materiality of his creation and the body as the crown of his creation by coming as a man.”Church needs more embodied practicesBallet offers counterpoint to disembodied tendenciesImportance of physical discipline in spiritual formationRomans 12:1 and making our bodies as living sacrificesHow to Experience Ballet“There's nothing you need to know before going to experience ballet.  You have a body, you have eyes, you have ears. That's all you need. Just let it wash over you.Let it work on you in its own kind of visceral way, and let that be an entry point  to not be intimidated by the, the music,  or the wordlessness or the tutu's or the point shoes or whatever.There's so many different stylistic manifestations of ballet. But just go experience it.And if you can, I would really encourage people almost as much or more than  watching it go see if like your local YMCA or  something has an adult ballet class, or if you're a kid, maybe ask your parents to sign you up to go try a class and just feel what that turned-out physicality feels like in your own body.It's so beautiful. It's very empowering.”Production NotesThis podcast featured Silas Farley and Macie BridgeEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Pope Francis died on Monday April 21, 2025. And to remember and celebrate his life, we’re bringing out an episode from our archives featuring social ethicist and Associate Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Virginia, Nichole M. Flores. Ryan McAnnally-Linz interviewed her in early 2021 about Fratelli Tutti, an encyclical teaching he published 6 months into the COVID-19 pandemic. From that encyclical he writes:“Here we have a splendid secret that shows us how to dream and to turn our life into a wonderful adventure. No one can face life in isolation… We need a community that supports and helps us, in which we can help one another to keep looking ahead. How important it is to dream together… By ourselves, we risk seeing mirages, things that are not there. Dreams, on the other hand, are built together. Let us dream, then, as a single human family, as fellow travelers sharing the same flesh, as children of the same earth which is our common home, each of us bringing the richness of his or her beliefs and convictions, each of us with his or her own voice, brothers and sisters all." (Pope Francis, Fratelli Tutti)Last year, in the midst of a global nightmare, Pope Francis invited the world to dream together of something different. He released Fratelli Tutti in October 2020—a message of friendship, dignity, and solidarity not just to Catholics, but "to all people of good will"—for the whole human community. In this episode, social ethicist Nichole Flores (University of Virginia) explains papal encyclicals and works through the moral vision of Fratelli Tutti, highlighting especially Pope Francis’s views on faith as seeing with the eyes of Christ, the implications of human dignity for discourse, justice and solidarity, and finally the language of dreaming together of a different world.Support For the Life of the World: Give to  the Yale Center for Faith & CultureShow NotesRead the entire text of Fratelli Tutti online hereWhat is a papal encyclical? For “All people of good will”—not just CatholicsExamining the signs of the times, e.g., Fratelli Tutti will always be connected to its global context during a pandemic.What is Fratelli Tutti? What does its title mean?Brothers and Sisters All: Using Italian, a particular language, as a pathway to the universal, rather than traditional Latin titlePope Francis’ roots in Latin America: How his particularity as Latin American gives him a universal message; local and communal belonging; neighborhoods contributing to the common goodSeeing/Gazing: Faith as seeing with the eyes of Christ (Lumen Fidei)Undermining human dignity in social media discourse; the failure of grandstanding rather than encounterSolidarity as a dirty word: conflicts within Catholicism about how to understand and apply justice and solidarity in real lifeSolidarity requires encounter with the otherSocial friendship and fraternityHuman dignity in the tradition of Catholic social ethicsDreaming together: fighting against the temptation to dream alone, inviting us to imagine; cultivating a conversation that forms collective imagination and aesthetic reality.About Nichole FloresNichole Flores is a social ethicist who is Associate Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Virginia. She studies the constructive contributions of Catholic and Latinx theologies to notions of justice and aesthetics to the life of democracy. Her research in practical ethics addresses issues of democracy, migration, family, gender, economics (labor and consumption), race and ethnicity, and ecology. Visit NicholeMFlores.com for more information.

“Art is a form of prayer … a way to enter into relationship.”Artist and theologian Bruce Herman reflects on the sacred vocation of making, resisting consumerism, and the divine invitation to become co-creators. From Mark Rothko to Rainer Maria Rilke, to Andres Serrano’s “Piss Christ” and T.S. Eliot’s Four Quartets, he comments on the holy risk of artmaking and the sacred fire of creative origination.Together with Evan Rosa, Bruce Herman explores the divine vocation of art making as resistance to consumer culture and passive living. In this deeply poetic and wide-ranging conversation—and drawing from his book *Makers by Nature—*he invites us into a vision of art not as individual genius or commodity, but as service, dialogue, and co-creation rooted in love, not fear. They touch on ancient questions of human identity and desire, the creative implications of being made in the image of God, Buber’s I and Thou, the scandal of the cross, Eliot’s divine fire, Rothko’s melancholy ecstasy, and how even making a loaf of bread can be a form of holy protest. A profound reflection on what it means to be human, and how we might change our lives—through beauty, vulnerability, and relational making.Episode Highlights“We are made by a Maker to be makers.”“ I think hope is being stolen from us Surreptitiously moment by moment hour by hour day by day.”“There is no them. There is only us.”“The work itself has a life of its own.”“Art that serves a community.”“You must change your life.” —Rilke, recited by Bruce Herman in reflection on the transformative power of art.“When we're not making something, we're not whole. We're not healthy.”“Making art is a form of prayer. It's a form of entering into relationship.”“Art is not for the artist—any more than it's for anyone else. The work stands apart. It has its own voice.”“We're not merely consumers—we're made by a Maker to be makers.”“The ultimate act of art is hospitality.”Topics and ThemesHuman beings are born to create and make meaningArt as theological dialogue and spiritual resistanceCreative practice as a form of love and worshipChristian art and culture in dialogue with contemporary issuesPassive consumption vs. active creationHow to engage with provocative art faithfullyThe role of beauty, mystery, and risk in the creative processArt that changes you spiritually, emotionally, and intellectuallyThe sacred vocation of the artist in a consumerist worldHow poetry and painting open up divine encounter, particularly in Rainer Maria Rilke’s “Archaic Torso of Apollo”Four Quartets and spiritual longing in modern poetryHospitality, submission, and service as aesthetic posturesModern culture's sickness and art as medicineEncountering the cross through contemporary artistic imagination“Archaic Torso of Apollo”Rainer Maria Rilke 1875 –1926We cannot know his legendary head with eyes like ripening fruit. And yet his torso is still suffused with brilliance from inside, like a lamp, in which his gaze, now turned to low, gleams in all its power. Otherwise the curved breast could not dazzle you so, nor could a smile run through the placid hips and thighs to that dark center where procreation flared. Otherwise this stone would seem defaced beneath the translucent cascade of the shoulders and would not glisten like a wild beast’s fur: would not, from all the borders of itself, burst like a star: for here there is no place that does not see you. You must change your life.About Bruce HermanBruce Herman is a painter, writer, educator, and speaker. His art has been shown in more than 150 exhibitions—nationally in many US cities, including New York, Boston, Washington, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Houston—and internationally in England, Japan, Hong Kong, Italy, Canada, and Israel. His artwork is featured in many public and private art collections including the Vatican Museum of Modern Religious Art in Rome; The Cincinnati Museum of Fine Arts print collection; The Grunewald Print Collection of the Hammer Museum, Los Angeles; DeCordova Museum in Boston; the Cape Ann Museum; and in many colleges and universities throughout the United States and Canada.Herman taught at Gordon College for nearly four decades, and is the founding chair of the Art Department there. He held the Lothlórien Distinguished Chair in Fine Arts for more than fifteen years, and continues to curate exhibitions and manage the College art collection there. Herman completed both BFA and MFA degrees at Boston University College of Fine Arts under American artists Philip Guston, James Weeks, David Aronson, Reed Kay, and Arthur Polonsky. He was named Boston University College of Fine Arts Distinguished Alumnus of the Year 2006.Herman’s art may be found in dozens of journals, popular magazines, newspapers, and online art features. He and co-author Walter Hansen wrote the book Through Your Eyes, 2013, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, a thirty-year retrospective of Herman’s art as seen through the eyes of his most dedicated collector.To learn more, explore A Video Portrait of the Artist and My Process – An Essay by Bruce Herman.Books by Bruce Herman*Makers by Nature: Letters from a Master Painter on Faith, Hope, and Art* (2025) *Ordinary Saints (*2018) *Through Your Eyes: The Art of Bruce Herman (2013) *QU4RTETS with Makoto Fujimura, Bruce Herman, Christopher Theofanidis, Jeremy Begbie (2012) A Broken Beauty (2006)Show NotesBruce Herman on Human Identity as MakersWe are created in the image of God—the ultimate “I Am”—and thus made to create.“We are made by a Maker to be makers.”To deny our creative impulse is to risk a deep form of spiritual unhealth.Making is not just for the “artist”—everyone is born with the capacity to make.Theological Themes and Philosophical FrameworksInfluences include Martin Buber’s “I and Thou,” René Girard’s scapegoating theory, and the image of God in Genesis.“We don't really exist for ourselves. We exist in the space between us.”The divine invitation is relational, not autonomous.Desire, imitation, and submission form the core of our relational anthropology.Art as Resistance to Consumerism“We begin to enter into illness when we become mere consumers.”Art Versus PropagandaCulture is sickened by passive consumption, entertainment addiction, and aesthetic commodification.Making a loaf of bread, carving wood, or crafting a cocktail are acts of cultural resistance.Desire“Anything is resistance… Anything is a protest against passive consumption.”Art as Dialogue and Submission“Making art is a form of prayer. It’s a form of entering into relationship.”Submission—though culturally maligned—is a necessary posture in love and art.Engaging with art requires openness to transformation.“If you want to really receive what a poem is communicating, you have to submit to it.”The Transformative Power of Encountering ArtQuoting Rilke’s Archaic Torso of Apollo: “You must change your life.”True art sees the viewer and invites them to become something more.Herman’s own transformative moment came unexpectedly in front of a Rothko painting.“The best part of my work is outside of my control.”Scandal, Offense, and the Cross in ArtAnalyzing Andres Serrano’s Piss Christ as a sincere meditation on the commercialization of the cross.“Does the crucifixion still carry sacred weight—or has it been reduced to jewelry?”Art should provoke—but out of love, not self-aggrandizement or malice.“The cross is an offense. Paul says so. But it’s the power of God for those being saved.”Beauty, Suffering, and Holy RiskEncounter with art can arise from personal or collective suffering.Bruce references Christian Wiman and Walker Percy as artists opened by pain.“Sometimes it takes catastrophe to open us up again.”Great art offers not escape, but transformation through vulnerability.The Fire and the Rose: T. S. Eliot’s InfluenceFour Quartets shaped Herman’s artistic and theological imagination.Eliot’s poetry is contemplative, musical, liturgical, and steeped in paradox.“To be redeemed from fire by fire… when the fire and the rose are one.”The collaborative Quartets project with Makoto Fujimura and Chris Theofanidis honors Eliot’s poetic vision.Living and Creating from Love, Not Fear“Make from love, not fear.”Fear-driven art (or politics) leads to manipulation and despair.Acts of love include cooking, serving, sharing, and creating for others.“The ultimate act of art is hospitality.”Media & Intellectual ReferencesMakers by Nature by Bruce HermanFour Quartets by T. S. EliotThe Archaic Torso of Apollo by Rainer Maria RilkeWassily Kandinsky, “On the Spiritual in Art”Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil PostmanThings Hidden Since the Foundation of the World by René GirardThe Art of the Commonplace by Wendell BerryAndres Serrano’s Piss ChristMakoto Fujimura’s Art and Collaboration

Fyodor Raychynets, a theologian and pastor from Kyiv, shares insights on living with courage amid the turmoil of war in Ukraine. He emphasizes the importance of confronting fear instead of avoiding it, arguing that embracing our fears leads to a more abundant life. Reflecting on hope and despair in conflict, he discusses personal grief, the emotional landscape of leadership, and the need for emotional expression in times of crisis. Fyodor encourages living in the moment and cultivating gratitude, reminding us that tomorrow is never guaranteed.

Mystics and prophets have reported receiving visions from the Divine for centuries—”Thus saith the Lord…”—Hildegard of Bingen, Teresa of Avila, Ignatius of Loyola, Catherine of Siena, or Julian of Norwich. The list goes on.But what would you think if you met a seer of visions in the present day? Maybe you have.What about a prophet whose visions came like a movie screen unfurled before him, the images grotesque and vivid, all in the unsuspecting backwoods setting of Lookout Mountain, deep in the south of Tennessee.Would you believe it? Would you believe him? The beauty of fiction allows the reader to join the author in asking: What if?That’s exactly what Jamie Quatro has allowed us to do in her newest work of literary fiction, Two-Step Devil.What if an earnest and wildly misunderstood Christian is left alone on Lookout Mountain? What if the receiver of visions makes art that reaches a girl who’s stuck in the darkest grip of a fraught world? What if the Devil really did sit in the corner of the kitchen, wearing a cowboy hat, and what if he got to tell his own side of the Biblical story?On today’s episode novelist Jamie Quatro joins Macie Bridge to share about her relationship to the theological exploration within her latest novel, Two-Step Devil; her experience of being a Christian and a writer, but not a “Christian Writer”; and how the trinity of main characters in the novel speak to and open up her own deepest concerns about the state of our country and the world we inhabit.Jamie Quatro is the New York Times Notable author of I Want to Show You More, and Fire Sermon. *Two-Step Devil* is her latest work and is the winner of the 2024 Willie Morris Award for Southern Writing, and it’s also been named a New York Times Editor's Choice, among other accolades. Jamie teaches in the Sewanee School of Letters MFA program.SPOILER ALERT! This episode contains substantial spoilers to the novel’s plot, so if you’d like to read it for yourself, first grab a copy from your local bookstore, then two-step on back over here to listen to this conversation!About Jamie QuatroJamie Quatro is the New York Times Notable author of I Want to Show You More, a finalist for the Los Angeles Times Art Seidenbaum Award and the National Book Critics Circle’s John Leonard Prize, and Fire Sermon, a Book of the Year for the Economist, San Francisco Chronicle, LitHub, Bloomberg, and the Times Literary Supplement. Her most recent novel, Two-Step Devil, is the winner of the 2024 Willie Morris Award for Southern Writing. It has also been named a New York Times Editor's Choice, a 2025 ALA Notable Book, and a Best Book of 2024 by the Paris Review and the Atlanta Journal Constitution. A new story collection is forthcoming from Grove Press.Quatro’s fiction has appeared or is forthcoming in The New Yorker, The Paris Review, Harper’s, the New York Review of Books, Ploughshares, and elsewhere. She is the recipient of fellowships from MacDowell, Yaddo, Bread Loaf, and La Maison Dora Maar in Ménerbes, France, where she will be in residence in 2025. Quatro holds an MA in English from the College of William and Mary and an MFA in fiction from the Bennington College Writing Seminars. She teaches in the Sewanee School of Letters MFA program, and lives with her family in Chattanooga, Tennessee.Show NotesGet your copy of Two-Step Devil by Jamie QuatroClick here to view the art that inspired Jamie Quatro’s Two-Step DevilProduction NotesThis podcast featured Jamie Quatro with Macie BridgeEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

It’s easy to forget how utterly scandalous the concepts of grace and forgiveness are. Grace is an absolutely unmerited, undeserved benevolence. Forgiveness is an intentional miscarriage of retributive justice, ignoring of the wrong by a wrongdoer.In Miroslav Volf’s understanding, forgiveness “decouples the deed from the doer.”Today’s episode features some highlights from Miroslav’s personal reflections about each chapter of his book Free of Charge: Giving and Forgiving in a Culture Stripped of Grace, including his thoughts about one of the most painful moments in his family’s history, the death of his 5-year-old brother Daniel when Miroslav was just a small boy.Free of Charge was published in 2006, and we just released a 10-video curriculum series through faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge. It also includes a 48-page discussion guide with new material to help facilitate not just deeper reflection about giving and forgiving, but a viable, livable path toward these core Christian practices.This series is free for Yale Center for Faith & Culture email subscribers. So head over to faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge to sign up today.Production NotesThis podcast featured Miroslav VolfEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett, and Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Femi Olutade, lead writer for Season 5 of Dissect, dives deep into Kendrick Lamar's political theology. He highlights Kendrick's Super Bowl halftime show as a striking commentary on race and injustice, suggesting it's more than just entertainment. Femi explores themes of pride, humility, and the historical weight of '40 acres and a mule' in Lamar's work. The conversation contrasts Kendrick’s moral depth with other artists, revealing how hip hop reflects broader societal challenges and the intricate dance of competition amidst cultural commentary.

Disaster preparedness is sort of an oxymoron. Disaster is the kind of indiscriminate calamity that only ever finds us ill-equipped to manage. And if you are truly prepared, you’ve probably averted disaster.There’s a big difference between the impact of disaster on physical, material life—and its outsized impact on mental, emotional, and spiritual life.Personal disasters like a terminal illness, natural disasters like the recent fires that razed southern Californian communities, the impact of endless, senseless wars … these all cause a pain and physical damage that can be mitigated or rebuilt. But the worst of these cases threaten to destroy the very meaning of our lives.No wonder disaster takes such a psychological and spiritual toll. There’s an urgent need to find or even make meaning from it. To somehow explain it, justify why God would allow it, and tell a grand story that makes sense from the senseless.These are difficult questions, and my guests today both have personal experience with disaster. Dr. Pam King is the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology, and the Executive Director the Thrive Center. She’s an ordained Presbyterian minister, and she hosts a podcast on psychology and spirituality called With & For. Dr. Jamie Aten is a disaster psychologist and disaster ministry expert, helping others navigate mass, humanitarian, and personal disasters with scientific and spiritual insights. He is the Founder and Executive Director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute Wheaton College, where he holds the Blanchard Chair of Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership. He is author of *A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and Resilience.*In this conversation, Pam King and Jamie Aten join Evan Rosa to discuss:Each of their personal encounters with disasters—both fire and cancerThe psychological study of disasterThe personal impact of disaster on mental, emotional, and spiritual healthThe difference between resilience and fortitudeAnd the theological and practical considerations for how to live through disastrous events.About Pam KingPam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. She hosts the With & For podcast, and you can follow her @drpamking.About Jamie AtenJamie D. Aten is a disaster psychologist and disaster ministry expert. He helps others navigate mass, humanitarian, and personal disasters with scientific and spiritual insights. He is the Founder and Executive Director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute and Disaster Ministry Conference and holds the Blanchard Chair of Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership at Wheaton College. And he’s the author of *A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and Resilience.*Show NotesHumanitarian Disaster InstituteSpiritual First AidJamie Aten’s A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and ResilienceThe Thrive Center at Fuller SeminaryPam King’s personal experience fighting fires in the Eaton Fire in January 20255,000 homes destroyed55 schools and houses of worship are gone“Neighborhoods are annihilated …”Jamie Aten offers an overview of the impact of disasters on humanity, and the human response1985: 400% increase in natural disasters globallyJapan 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunamiHaiti 2010 earthquakePhysical, emotional, spiritualInfrastructural impacts that set up disastersUSAID supportJamie Aten’s experience during Hurricane KatrinaPersonal disastersJamie Aten’s experience with colon cancer“Evacuation Impossible”Impact of disaster on personal sense of thrivingThriving vs survivingUnderstanding traumaCollective traumatic eventsThe historically Black multigenerational community in AltadenaWhat constitutes thriving?Thriving as adaptive growth: with and for othersSelf-care is not just me-care, but we-care.Trauma brain and the cognitive impacts of disasterThe psychological study of disaster: grapefruit vs beachballHumanitarian Disaster InstituteSpiritual First AidA rupture of meaning makingPlace and spirituality and the impact of disaster on sense of placeBethlehem pastor Munther Isaac’s “Christ in the Rubble”Finding meaning in both the restructuring or rebuilding, but also in the rubble itselfHope embodied in serviceEverything is a cognitive loadMiroslav Volf and Ryan McAnnally-Linz’s The Home of God: A Brief Story of EverythingPsychological and trauma-informed care”One of the things that we found was that when people received positive spiritual support, that they reported lower levels of trauma, lower levels of depression and lower levels of anxiety.”Bless CPRBLESS: Biological, Livelihood, Emotional, Social, Spiritual“What’s the most pressing need?”Spiritual healthSpirituality and our ultimate sources of meaningTranscendenceLament as a practice for dealing with disasterPrayer or sacred readingsMeaning making and suffering:  Elizabeth Hall (Biola University) and Crystal Park (University of Connecticut)Baton Rouge Flood 2016Navigating sufferingReligion in disaster mental healthFaith as a predictor for resilienceMeaning making outside of religionMr. Rogers: “Look for the helpers”Best disaster preparedness: “Get to know your neighbor.”“Proximity alone is not what it takes to become a neighbor.”Neighbors helping neighborsManaging burnout in helpers“Spiritual self-aid” instead of “self-care”Self-care is like surfing“God holding the fragmented pieces of me”“God’s love is with me.”Spiritual fortitude in personal and natural disastersProduction NotesThis podcast featured Jamie Aten and Pam KingEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

How should we treat our one and only home, Earth? What obligations do we have to other living or non-living things? How should we think about climate change and its denial? How does biodiversity and species extinction impact human beings? And how should we think about environmental justice, the rights of animals, and the ways we consume the natural world?In this episode, Ryan McAnnally-Linz welcomes Ryan Darr (Assistant Professor, Yale Divinity School) to reflect on some of the most pressing issues in environmental ethics and consider them through philosophical, ecological, and theological frameworks.Together they discuss:What and who matters in environmental ethics: Only humans? Only sentient animals? Every life form? The inorganic natural world?The significance and difference between global and individual scale of climate issuesThe ethics of climate change denialEnvironmental justice and moral obligations to the environment—the question of what we owe to animals and the rest of the natural worldThe importance of biodiversity and the impact of species loss and extinctionThe ethics of eating animalsThe problems with human consumption of the natural worldAnd the impact of cultivating a wider moral imagination of our ecological futureAbout Ryan DarrRyan Darr Ryan Darr is Assistant Professor of Religion, Ethics, and Environment at Yale Divinity School. His research interests include environmental ethics, multispecies justice, structural injustice, ethical theory, and the history of religious and philosophical ethics. He is currently writing a book that defends an account of environmental and multispecies justice as a framework for thinking ethically about the crisis of biodiversity loss and mass extinction. He is also developing an ongoing research project exploring the relationship between individual agency and responsibility and structural justice and injustice with a particular focus on environmental and climate issues.His first book, The Best Effect: Theology and the Origins of Consequentialism, was published by the University of Chicago Press in 2023. The book offers a new, robustly theological story of the origin of consequentialism, one of the most influential views in modern moral theory. It uses the new historical account to intervene in contemporary ethical debates about consequentialism and about how ethicists conceive of goods, ends, agency, and causality.Prior to joining the YDS faculty, Ryan held postdoctoral fellowships at the Princeton University Center for Human Values (2019-22) and the Yale Institute of Sacred Music (2022-24).Show NotesGet your copy of Ryan Darr’s The Best Effect: Theology and the Origins of ConsequentialismComplex ethical questions about climate changeEnmeshed in environmental systemsA crash course in environmental ethicsWhich entities should we be thinking about ethically?Are human beings the most important morally and ethically speaking?What about animals, plants, or other kinds of life?What about other species of animalsAnthropocentrism: Only humans matter.Sentientism: Only sentient animals matterBiocentrism: Every life form mattersCan we apply justice and rights to animals?The polar bear on melting ice was the poster child for climate change; but this was a mistake because the effects on human beings is massive.“All of us are affected.”“We’re all vulnerable to climate change. …. kidding themselves and need to think more about this.”Global southClimate negotiations: Who needs to lower emissions and how? And how do we adapt?Massive overwhelm at the scope of environmental problems: “Only massive changes can make a difference.” But “I have to change my life.”How should we navigate the scale issue?Don’t let large scale or small scale issues or changes eclipse the other.Political action is crucial“We need people willing to respond in the ways they can, where they are.”Climate change denial“There’s a lot of money flowing here.” Fossil fuel interests and others muddy the waters and create conflicts“If it’s the case that millions of lives are at stake … I don’t see how some doubtReasons why people might deny climate change“It’d be nice if climate change wasn’t real, but …”Environmental justice and injusticeToxicities released into the natural environmentConservation and biodiversity lossApproximately 8 million species on earthIt’s standard to lose a handful per million per yearGenerally, you’re supposed to get more species on earth, short of a mass extinction eventBut extinction rate is something like 100x to 1000x fasterDefaunation—reduction of fauna on earthMeasuring the biomass of various species (Humans make up 30% of the world’s biomass.)Changes linked to colonialism and global capitalismWhy would God have created such a diverse speciesThomas Aquinas on why God created a world full of biodiversity: to reflect God’s extensive perfection“On this view, the world is show lessWhat are the ethics ofExample: Wolves were intentionally eradicated in America, because “who wants a wolf in their neighborhood.”Justice-oriented “Rights” and what we owe to each other, versus non-justiceDo we have obligations to animals?Example: Kicking a Cat“The Incredulous Stare”Jainism and “ahiṃsā” (non-injury, no-harm, or non-violence toward all life forms, down to microbes)“I’m inclined to think that I have obligations to almost all animals.”At least “animals who are sentient”—desires, frustration of desires, pain, etc.Is it permissible to eat meat?Factory-farmed meat (effectively tormented)Animal life has become commodity—valuable solely because of its use and with no regard for their well-being.Consumers, Producers, and Wendell Berry: How should social roles relate to each other?“Any question about justice have to begin from concrete social positions.”Maintaining action and creativityPractical recommendation for action to align our lives with our values“I read fiction and short stories that tell stories of human beings in futures drastically affected by climate change as a way to open up my imagination to what’s possible.”Dystopian narratives: leading to a sense of futility and hopelessness.“I don’t think we know where anything is headed.”“Humans have lived through upheaval so many times, and have found ways. … ‘People kept on baking bread as the Roman Empire fell.’”Yale Divinity School class: “Eco-Futures”—imagining lives lived well in painful situationsIf not hope, a sense of determination to do what can be done with the time that we have.Kim Stanley Robinson's The Ministry for the Future: a technocratic novel about politics and policy solutionsShort fiction on Grist—Imagine 2200: Write the FutureMargaret Atwood, Everything ChangeProduction NotesThis podcast featured Ryan Darr and Ryan McAnnally-LinzEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett, and Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

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