

Great Power Podcast
American Foreign Policy Council
Interested in defending America’s interests in an age of great power competition? Join host American Foreign Policy Council Fellow in Indo-Pacific Studies Michael Sobolik as he explores insights from foreign policy experts, journalists, and policymakers to help craft a solid foundation for America’s grand strategy.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 14, 2024 • 54min
What If America Can't Deter China?
Iskander Rehman, a Senior Fellow for Strategic Studies at AFPC, delves into the intricate dynamics of U.S.-China relations. He examines the historical context of protracted warfare and its implications for current military strategies. The conversation emphasizes the critical need for America to adapt its defense strategies to counter a rising China, particularly regarding Taiwan and the South China Sea. Rehman also discusses the dangers of domestic polarization on national security and the importance of unity in facing great power challenges.

Jan 26, 2024 • 1h 8min
Beijing Targets State Capitals
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik speaks with Jimmy Quinn about Chinese Communist Party (CCP) efforts to influence U.S. politics at the state and local level. Sobolik and Quinn assess Beijing's success, examine the pervasiveness of CCP malign influence in U.S. states and cities, and review Washington's responses.
Guest biography
Jimmy Quinn is the national security correspondent for National Review and a Novak Fellow at The Fund for American Studies.
Resources from the conversation
Pre-order Michael's forthcoming book about U.S.-China competition
Read Jimmy's extensive reporting about Beijing's state-level influence campaign in America (and other issues)
Read Michael's recent TikTok op-ed

Dec 29, 2023 • 51min
A Year-In Review of America's China Policy
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik flies solo and reflects on the highs and (mostly) lows of America's China policy throughout 2023. He addresses three topics: the spy balloon, Taiwan, and TikTok. The main takeaway: despite the pervasive rhetoric that America's policy toward Beijing has fundamentally shifted toward a more competitive stance, Washington continues to pull its punches and leave significant leverage on the table.
RESOURCES FROM THE CONVERSATION
Pre-order Michael's forthcoming book, Countering China's Great Game: A Strategy for American Dominance
Read reporting from Bloomberg on Beijing's spy balloon
Read reporting from NBC News about the Biden administration's response to the spy balloon
Read the referenced articles about Taiwan policy (NYT, Foreign Affairs, Foreign Affairs)
Read Michael's thread on Twitter/X about the probability of banning TikTok

Sep 13, 2023 • 1h 6min
The American Colossus
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik interviews Sean Mirski about America's path to regional supremacy, how to understand China as a rising power, and the future of global stability.
Guest biography.
Sean A. Mirski is a lawyer, historian, and U.S. foreign policy scholar who has worked on national security issues across multiple U.S. presidential administrations.A term member of the Council on Foreign Relations, he currently practices national security, foreign relations, and appellate law at Arnold & Porter Kaye Scholer LLP, and is also a Visiting Scholar at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. He previously served in the U.S. Department of Defense under both Republican and Democratic administrations as Special Counsel to the General Counsel, where he earned the Office of the Secretary of Defense’s Award for Outstanding Achievement. He has written extensively on American history, international relations, law, and politics, including as author of We May Dominate the World: Ambition, Anxiety, and the Rise of the American Colossus (PublicAffairs 2023), and as editor of the book Crux of Asia: China, India, and the Emerging Global Order (CEIP 2013). Earlier in his career, he clerked for Justice Samuel A. Alito, Jr. on the U.S. Supreme Court and then-Judge Brett M. Kavanaugh on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, and served as a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Named one of Forbes magazine’s “30 Under 30,” he graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School and holds a master’s degree in international relations from the University of Chicago.
Resources from the conversation
Read Sean's new book, We May Dominate The World: Ambition, Anxiety, and the Rise of the American Colossus
Read Sean's op-ed in The Washington Post about the Monroe Doctrine
Read the transcript of the U.S.-China 2021 summit in Anchorage, AK

Aug 28, 2023 • 1h 4min
China and Export Controls
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik chats with Nazak Nikakhtar about export controls and their role in U.S.-China competition. Nazak addresses specific U.S. export controls on Huawei, and also shares a creative idea to address the challenges TikTok poses to policymakers in Washington.
Guest biography
The Honorable Nazak Nikakhtar is a partner at Wiley. From 2018 to 2021, with unanimous confirmation by the U.S. Senate, Nazak served as the Department of Commerce’s Assistant Secretary for Industry & Analysis at the International Trade Administration (ITA). Nazak also fulfilled the duties of the Under Secretary for Industry and Security at Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS). In these roles, Nazak was the agency’s primary liaison with U.S. industry and trade associations, and she shaped major initiatives to strengthen U.S. industry competitiveness, promote innovation, and accelerate economic and job growth. As one of the key national security experts in the U.S. government, she developed and implemented innovative laws, regulations, and policies to safeguard strategically important technologies, strengthen the U.S. industrial base, and protect the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States. As the Department’s lead on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), she played a key role in shaping U.S. investment policy. As the head of the agency’s trade policy office, she advised the U.S. government on legal and economic issues impacting critical technologies, advanced manufacturing, financial services, e-commerce, data privacy, cybersecurity, critical minerals/rare earths, and energy competition. Finally, as the federal agency’s lead on supply chain assessments, Nazak spearheaded the United States’ first-ever whole-of-government initiative to evaluate and strengthen supply chains across all strategic sectors of the economy.
Resources from the conversation
Check out Michael's book announcement
Get to know Nazak better (full bio)
Read about Secretary Raimondo's trip to China (and Michael's commentary)
Read Nazak's interview with The Wire China

Jul 26, 2023 • 42min
Guardrails for Competition
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik chats with Mike Mazza of the American Enterprise Institute about America's China policy, what "responsible competition" actually looks like, and what it means for hot-button policy issues in Washington and throughout the country.
Guest biography
Michael Mazza is a nonresident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), where he analyzes US defense policy in the Asia-Pacific region, Chinese military modernization, cross–Taiwan Strait relations, Korean Peninsula security, and US interests in Southeast Asia. He is also a senior nonresident fellow at the Global Taiwan Institute (GTI).
Mr. Mazza writes regularly for the Global Taiwan Brief, GTI’s biweekly publication. He has contributed to numerous AEI studies on American grand strategy in Asia, US defense strategy in the Asia-Pacific, and Taiwanese defense strategy, and his published work includes opinion pieces in the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, and Foreign Affairs. He also writes often for the AEIdeas blog.
Mr. Mazza has an MA in international relations from the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University and a BA in history from Cornell University. He has lived in China, where he attended the Inter-University Program for Chinese Language Studies at Tsinghua University in Beijing.
Resources from the conversation
Read Mike's policy paper on U.S.-China competition
Read Mike's work at AEI
Follow Mike on Twitter (or X, whatever it's called now)

Jun 26, 2023 • 48min
Inaction Is Complicity
In this week's episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik interviews Julie Millsap about the last developments in the Chinese Communist Party's genocide of Uyghurs, the Biden administration's reprioritization of the issue, and what it portends for the future of US-China relations.
Guest biography
Julie Millsap serves as the Government Relations Manager at The Uyghur Human Rights Project. She became publicly involved in Uyghur advocacy in 2020, when she left China after 10 years residing and working in the Inner Mongolia region. She has also been a frequent collaborator with the World Uyghur Congress, Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project, and various other entities working on democracy promotion and human rights. During the course of her advocacy, she has met with government officials in Turkey, the United Kingdom, Lithuania, Canada, Germany, The Czech Republic, and the United States to raise the issues and discuss policy options to address the challenges posed by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and needed changes to stop Uyghur genocide. She is fluent in Mandarin and resides in the Washington D.C. area with her family.
Resources from the conversation
Read Julie's tweet that sparked this interview
Read Michael Martina's reporting in Reuters about the State Department's blocking of competitive actions targeting the CCP
Read Michael's coverage of the Biden administration's diplomatic sacrifices to secure Secretary Blinken's trip to Beijing
Follow Julie on Twitter
Follow the Uyghur Human Rights Project on Twitter

May 26, 2023 • 52min
The 38th Parallel
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik interviews Bruce Klingner about North Korea’s nuclear program, recent developments in the U.S.-South Korea alliance, and the outlook for stability in Northeast Asia.
Guest biography
Bruce Klingner specializes in Korean and Japanese affairs as the Senior Research Fellow for Northeast Asia at The Heritage Foundation’s Asian Studies Center. Klingner’s analysis and writing about North Korea, South Korea and Japan, as well as related issues, are informed by his 20 years of service at the Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Klingner, who joined Heritage in 2007, has testified before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. He is a frequent commentator in U.S. and foreign media. His articles and commentary have appeared in major American and foreign publications and he is a regular guest on broadcast and cable news outlets.
From 1996 to 2001, Klingner was CIA’s Deputy Division Chief for Korea, responsible for the analysis of political, military, economic and leadership issues for the president of the United States and other senior U.S. policymakers. In 1993-1994, he was the chief of CIA’s Korea branch, which analyzed military developments during a nuclear crisis with North Korea.
Klingner is a distinguished graduate of the National War College, where he received a master’s degree in National Security Strategy in 2002. He also holds a master’s degree in Strategic Intelligence from the Defense Intelligence College and a bachelor’s degree in Political Science from Middlebury College in Vermont.
He is active in Korean martial arts, attaining third-degree black belt in taekwondo and first-degree black belt in hapkido and teuk kong moo sool.
Resources from the conversation
Watch Bruce’s interview with PBS NewsHour
Read Bruce’s analysis of the recent U.S.-South Korea summit
Read Bruce’s publication about recent developments in North Korea’s nuclear program
Read Bruce’s white paper about challenges in the U.S.-South Korea alliance

Apr 19, 2023 • 35min
"Burn It Like a Witch": Can We Ban TikTok?
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik speaks with Sarah Isgur about the legal issues surrounding a possible TikTok ban, how different bills on Capitol Hill address these realities, and the merits of TikTok's possible legal objections.
Guest biography
Sarah Isgur is a senior editor of The Dispatch and host of the Advisory Opinions podcast. With experience on three presidential campaigns and all three branches, she knows how decisions in Washington get made., and former spokesperson in the United States Department of Justice. Isgur was campaign manager for the Carly Fiorina 2016 presidential campaign. She also worked for the 2012 Mitt Romney presidential campaign. In 2016, she was a fellow at the Harvard Institute of Politics.
Resources from the conversation
Read the Politico story about the legal challenges of banning TikTok
Read Sarah's recent analysis about the politics of banning TikTok
Check out Sarah's podcast, Advisory Opinions
Read Michael's recent op-ed about the politics of a TikTok ban
Read Michael's analysis of political opposition to banning TikTok on the Left and the Right

Apr 5, 2023 • 45min
Does Helping Ukraine Hurt Taiwan?
In this episode of GREAT POWER PODCAST, host Michael Sobolik interviews Rebeccah Heinrichs about the war in Ukraine and Taiwan's future, the limits and lengths of American power, and whether Washington has the strength to help both capitals.
Guest Biography
Rebeccah L. Heinrichs is a senior fellow at Hudson Institute and the director of its Keystone Defense Initiative. She specializes in US national defense policy with a focus on strategic deterrence.
Ms. Heinrichs currently serves as a commissioner on the bipartisan Strategic Posture Commission, which was created in the Fiscal Year 2022 National Defense Authorization Act. She also serves on the US Strategic Command Advisory Group and the National Independent Panel on Military Service and Readiness.
She is an adjunct professor at the Institute of World Politics where she teaches nuclear deterrence theory and is also a contributing editor of Providence: A Journal of Christianity and American Foreign Policy.
Ms. Heinrichs earned her MA in national security and strategic studies from the US Naval War College and graduated with highest distinction from its College of Naval Command and Staff, receiving the Director’s Award for academic excellence. She earned her BA in history and political science from Ashland University in Ohio, was an Ashbrook Scholar, and currently serves as a member of the University's Board of Trustees. She is enrolled at Missouri State University pursuing her doctorate of defense and strategic studies.
She lives in Virginia with her husband and their five children.
Resources from the conversation
Read Michael's op-ed about the New Right
Read Rebeccah's op-ed about American exceptionalism