Wealth Formula by Buck Joffrey

If you like these “Ask Buck“ shows, you’ve been enjoying the last few weeks. I would love to get some feedback from you as I’m always trying to improve the quality of my content. In the meantime, here is the third and last ask Buck episode of the summer! We will do it again sometime in the fall. Enjoy!

We do a lot of interview based content on Wealth Formula Podcast. However, the feedback I get is that the most learning happens during our “Ask Buck” episodes.   The good news is that we have a bunch of questions lined up so we will do a couple of “Ask Buck” shows in a row for the next few weeks starting with this one! I also encourage you to go back and listen to older “Ask Buck” shows as well. It’s probably the quickest way to get caught up with all of our lingo and the concepts we constantly go back to.   I hope you enjoy it!

“You’re nuts!” That’s what I would say to anyone a year ago who suggested that we would face a global pandemic that would put us in a recession magnitudes greater than 2008 (based on GDP), make all bars and restaurants shut down and cancel professional athletics. I would also think you were nuts if you told me that despite all of this financial destruction, our apartment portfolio would still be performing as well as it is. We truly are living in the Twilight Zone right now. So what happens in the next six months, a year or two years? Yogi Berra put it best, “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future”. So, no matter what anyone says right now it is probably akin to throwing darts. That said, let me make a couple of observations. First, apartment buildings are still doing very well. Interest rates will be artificially low for years to come. And there is a ton of money on the sidelines that must be deployed. What if we avoid the much predicted tsunami of defaults altogether and go straight from stable or slightly decreased rent growth for the next few months to massive demand and cap rate compression a year from now?  I would not have said this with a straight face a couple of months ago but now I can actually see that happening and not be surprised by it. Anyway, in the interest of continuously trying to understand the future of real estate investing, I am interviewing yet another economic sage this week. He’s a guy who specializes in apartments and actually spoke at our last Wealth Formula live event which now seems ages ago. His name is Ryan Davis and he’s a very smart guy. Make sure to listen to this week’s Wealth Formula Podcast to see what he has to say! Ryan Davis serves as Chief Operating Officer at Witten Advisors. In this role, Ryan provides fact-based research, analysis and discussion to help clients formulate their apartment market strategies.  This insight informs investment decisions for multifamily development and buy/sell opportunities. Shownotes: The great unknown is the pace of the recovery Can we expect to see a tsunami of defaults before the economy recovers? Is the worst behind us in terms of the economy? How has the current pandemic affected the lending market? wittenadvisors.com

There is a phenomenon in finance that I have witnessed first hand that I find fascinating. The best way to explain it is to tell you about a guy I know out here in California who has been very successful as a fund manager. I asked him once about the expectations of his investors and he quickly replied: “5 percent”. Knowing this guy was pretty savvy and could easily produce more than 5 percent for his investors, I said he must be making them pretty happy by outperforming that expectation on a consistent basis. “No way!” he said. “I’m not about to scare anyone off.” He continued to explain that his investors saw the money he was managing for them as safe money. If they got higher yields, they would start to think of themselves as doing something risky. So, instead of scaring people by giving them bigger returns, this fund manager was kind enough to spare them the scare and pocketed the spread himself. Of course he was not doing anything nefarious at all. The agreement he had with his investors was to deliver 5 percent. As a real estate investor you might be scratching your head right now but this phenomenon is real in the financial services world. Conventional financial wisdom trains us to believe that nothing profitable could be relatively low risk. And, to be clear, there is some truth to that when it comes to traditional bond markets etc. However, I can tell you that we see exceptions to this rule all the time in real estate. If you’ve been to our accredited investor club for long, you’ve seen this play out in apartment buildings over and over again. Is it possible to have a relatively safe asset that makes money in recessionary times and makes even more money when times are good? Well, I happen to know and have partnered with a top 25 operator in a category of real estate that seems to thrive no matter what the economy looks like. Of course all real estate is operator dependent. This particular partner raised net operating income across his portfolio by 9 percent in 2008 during the financial melt down! This operator has also seen an average project level annualized return of 64 percent on all divestments! In other words, during down times he has done very well and during thriving economies he has absolutely crushed it. And to be clear, this is not a mom and pop shop that got lucky. They are the 25th largest operator of self-storage in the country. Want to learn more? Listen to this week’s interview with Lew Pollack. And if you are an accredited investor, I would highly suggest you join our investor club ASAP! Lewis G. Pollack, operates the Reliant Delray Beach, Florida office, and has primary responsibility for equity investor relations. Mr. Pollack, a long-time corporate executive and entrepreneur, has been involved in the development and management of self-storage in excess of 30 years. Mr. Pollack is a graduate of Franklin and Marshall College, Trenton State College, and holds Ph.D. (ABD) from University of California at Los Angeles. Mr. Pollack is a former Trustee and President of the Florida Self-Storage Association. Mr. Pollack is also a Managing Principal of Midgard Self Storage and Store Smart brands. Shownotes: Lew talks about what makes self storage appealing as an investment How has Reliant’s portfolio performed through the current pandemic? What is an A-Class Self Storage facility? Lew talks about the typical value-adds in Self Storage

Back in the early 1990s, I was a freshman at Columbia University in New York. Frankly, I wasn’t very interested in the academic part of college at the time. I was too busy doing what a college kid might do after being dropped into Manhattan after going to private school in the midwest. In fact, I realized that college courses were starting to interfere with my nocturnal lifestyle so I started taking an increasing number of evening courses. The evening courses had a lot of older students in them—many of them graduate students that took their studies pretty seriously. I recall taking a political science class one time where I am quite sure I was the only freshman there. The lecturer was some fancy academic guy who many thought would eventually run for office. The lectures often led to spirited discussions which I found intimidating for multiple reasons—one of which is probably because I rarely came to class having adequately prepared myself with assigned readings, etc. One evening a lecture stirred an interesting idea in me that I wanted to share but, again, felt too intimidated to share in front of this older, intellectually talented class. So, I decided to wait until a break we typically took midway through class and talk about it with the professor one-on-one.  To my delight, the professor called my idea interesting and spoke to me like a colleague rather than the 18-year-old punk that I was. Emboldened by my success, I awaited the next time that I could interject myself in class. On one occasion, the discussion turned towards the Clinton administration stance on gays in the military. There was lively discussion on this hot button issue primarily around the effect on morale. I didn’t get it—why did people care, I thought. So, I raised my hand and, in front of a classroom and stood up. I looked at the packed classroom of intellectual heavyweights and said, “Why do we even ask them if they are gay? Wouldn’t it make sense just not to ask?” There was an odd silence for a minute and then two or three students reminded me that the Clinton administration had just passed the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.  After an uncomfortable moment, I quickly sat down about as embarrassed as I had ever been. The class, briefly stunned by my profound ignorance of current events, continued their discussion where it had left off before I interrupted. I never did go back to that class. It wasn’t too late to drop it fortunately. Why did I tell you this story? Well, as you can probably tell from the frequent appearance of economists on my podcast, I really enjoy learning about macroeconomics. That said, with a medical background, trying to follow some of these theories can be kind of humbling. I’ve gotten better over the years but I am sensitive to the fact that you may be a super smart professional in your own field that knows little about how the economy works. Meanwhile, the alternative podcast ecosystem is talking non-stop about the fall-out of Covid-19 and the potential consequences of unprecedented fiscal and monetary policy interventions that we are seeing. One of the theories circulating out there is called the “Dollar Milkshake Theory”. It’s counter to some of the doom and gloom scenarios that are out there right now—at least for the next 2-3 years. It’s not the easiest thing to understand. So, I appreciated the fact that this week’s podcast guest, Brent Johnson, allowed me to dumb his theory down enough so even a surgeon could understand it! Let me know what you think! Brent Johnson brings over twenty years of experience in the financial markets to his position as CEO of Santiago Capital. Brent enjoyed more than nine years as a Managing Director at BakerAvenue, a $1.7Billion Asset Manager and Wealth Management firm, with offices in San Francisco, Dallas and NewYork.  He was the lead advisor for several of the firms largest clients. Before joining BakerAvenue, Brent spent nine years at Credit Suisse in their private client group. He got his start as part of the training program at Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette (DLJ) in New York prior to moving to San Francisco. He joined Credit Suisse in the fall of 2000 when the bank purchased DLJ. Earlier in his career, Brent was a financial auditor for Philip Morris Management Company in New York City where he performed audits at the company’s headquarters as well as subsidiaries in Germany, Hong Kong and Richmond, Virginia. Brent regularly gives interviews and speaks at conferences regarding precious metals, currency markets & macro-economic trends. His views have been quoted in numerous print, online and television outlets. He lives in San Francisco with his wife Mary and son Moses. Shownotes: Brent gives us a background on the current economic situation in the country Why does it matter if the dollar is strong or weak? What is the Dollar Milkshake Theory Can the value of gold and the dollar go up simultaneously? What are some of the key concepts to consider in your personal portfolio? Brent talks about asymmetric dollar trades: an opportunity to bet a little in order to make a lot. brent@santiagocapital.com santiagocapital.com @SantiagoAuFund

“Be careful what you wish for…lest it come true!” -Aesop’s Fables I remember back in college going to the mail center daily in hopes of finding and acceptance letter to medical school. Back then, I really romanticized the idea of being one of those heroes in a white coat. Fortunately, I got what I wanted and was very excited. The next August I drove to Chicago from my parents home in Minnesota medical school orientation. On the drive, I heard a famous neurosurgeon on the radio (who is now HUD Secretary oddly enough). He was asked the question of how he knew that he was capable of something so delicate as brain surgery. He replied that he excelled at hand-eye coordination sports like table tennis as a kid. It was then that I knew that I belonged in neurosurgery. After all, I was great at ping pong! And…being a brain surgeon sounded kind of cool. So, I decided then and there that my goal was to get into a neurosurgical residency training program—no small feat in the competitive world of medical school. A few years later, not only did I get there, but I got into the program of my choice with the chairman that I envisioned being my mentor. Along the way, I even realized I liked neuroscience so it wasn’t entirely for my ego. But two years into neurosurgical training, I came to a stark realization. I didn’t like being woken up at night! That was a problem. I was getting woken up every night I was on call with snowmobilers being flown in with brain trauma from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. And while my fellow neurosurgical residents seemed to get an adrenaline rush out playing superman in the middle of the night, I was just tired and cranky. I wanted to sleep. I wanted a life. That wasn’t going to happen the way I needed to in neurosurgery. So…I quit neurosurgery and decided to switch into a surgical specialty that did not involve the brain. In order to do that, I headed out to San Francisco for a new residency program that left me, frankly, uninspired. I wrote academic papers at a feverish pace for recognition but my heart was not in it. By the time I finished training, I was just going through the motions with no passion at all. Now, if you had told that kid back in college hoping to get an acceptance letter to medical school that he would finish surgical training at UCSF (my prestigious alma mater), he would have been absolutely thrilled. So why wasn’t I? I guess the distant idea of an accomplishment or a kind of lifestyle is usually better than the achievement itself. After all, what you want in life is dynamic. Every time you get to a certain place in life, your desires have already moved on to the next thing. I think it is sort of inevitable to one degree or another for most people. The extent of the dissatisfaction with life varies of course. But the need to grow and be better in one way or another is always there in high performers. You are not alone. I am sort of the extreme example. I stopped practicing 8 years after surgical training. The 16 years of college, medical school, and post-graduate training could not convince me that I had to stay as it does to some of my colleagues. I’ve found a better fit for myself in entrepreneurship and education, but I’m still trying to fill needs all the time. In fact, my latest decision was to get a real estate license in hopes of getting involved with luxury real estate in my town. Why? Well, it’s not for the money. The amount of money I make that is essentially time independent makes just about anything that requires my time to seem like a poor financial decision. For me, it’s about getting out of the house! For the last three years since leaving Chicago, I have barely left my house. My work is online and in the podcast sphere. Sometimes I go a whole week without seeing anyone but my family. In the meantime, I gained weight, I let my beard grow uncontrollably to unabomber levels and I simply didn’t feel energized. What I was missing in my life was interacting with people! When I realized this, the old saying about choosing your profession based on what you do in your free time crossed my mind. Clearly it was a little late for me to get involved materially in the NFL. But I do spend a lot of time on Zillow and Trulia looking at luxury homes. So, putting together luxury homes and interaction with people as a job requirement—it just made sense to get my license and to go to work. Now don’t get me wrong. I am feeling very uncomfortable with this new identity so far. Right now, I’m the new guy who knows very little. It is a humbling experience that I have not felt for over a decade at least.  But sometimes radical change serves as a nice shock to the system and makes you feel alive. Who knows how this decision will play out but I’m excited. Want to buy a house in Santa Barbara? Let me know! Anyway, this idea of feeling restless in your skin is something that is common enough that my friend Michael Bernoff wrote a book about it. It’s called Average Sucks. That’s what we talk about on this week’s Wealth Formula Podcast! Michael is the President and Founder of the Human Communications Institute, a leader in the personal and professional development industry. He works directly with individuals as well as corporate executives who desire to transform their corporate culture in an ever changing marketplace. His passion for his work is limitless and his dedication to positively impacting the world by empowering every individual is uncompromising. During his own journey of self-discovery, Michael studied and modeled effective leaders recognized worldwide. He focused their philosophies, strategies, and techniques that have consistently produced rapid and lasting change. By combining a variety of these proven disciplines and his own strategies, Michael has created his own programs that have enabled both him and his clients to overcome limiting beliefs and achieve a life beyond limits.

Entrepreneurs are just professional problem solvers who keep score by how much money they make. I know this because I am an entrepreneur at my very core. It’s not a choice I made, it’s the way I was born. Entrepreneurship is not usually glamorous as frequently depicted in the movies or on reality shows. Most of us have more failures than we have successes and the failures often create profoundly negative effects for the people around us. It can be a bit of a curse. But the high that an entrepreneur gets when identifying a problem and finding a solution is very strong. Being able to look at an inefficiency and realizing that it can be fixed by creating a business around it is exhilarating. And when is the best time to find inefficiencies in a business model?… When times are bad!  You see, when times are good, profitable businesses usually leave way too much meat on the bone because they are already fat and happy. Few people look at ways of doing things better when they are already making a good profit. Only when the tide goes out do you discover who’s been swimming naked. Profits get tight and businesses have to rely on becoming more efficient to survive. This is the perfect setting for the entrepreneurial mind who sees opportunity where others see crisis. My friend Jorge Newbery is the purest entrepreneur that I know. He is, of course, the founder of AHP Servicing and Debt Cleanse. He has been on Wealth Formula Podcast several times before. This week, we are going to talk about his latest business that stems from the embargo on foreclosures note holders are now facing in many states—specifically those who are trying to foreclose on vacant property. In usual Jorge style, it’s an elegant solution where everyone wins. The good news is that there is an opportunity for you to participate and get your own feet wet as an entrepreneur. Don’t miss this week’s episode of Wealth Formula Podcast as Jorge and I discuss the business he calls Pre-REO. Jorge Newbery is the Chairman and founder of American Homeowner Preservation, LLC, or “AHP.” Jorge was the President of Budget Real Estate Inc. from 1995 to 2008, where he brokered over 1,000 troubled Department of Housing and Urban Development and real estate owned properties and acquired, renovated and operated over 200 distressed multi-family, single-family and commercial properties. Prior to that, Jorge was the co-founder of Sunset Mortgage from 1992 to 1995. Barry is Vice President where he is part of the company’s Executive Committee and leadership team focusing on preREO and REO. Barry brings over 29 years of mortgage servicing and sales experience with a history of providing technology solutions that enable operators to perform at their peak. Barry was previously Vice President of Exceleras LLC and Senior Vice President of Business Development for OrangeGrid Empowering people in progress. Shownotes: What happens when a person defaults on a loan? How does Pre-REO turn dead money assets into monetized assets? Jorge talks about how people can use Pre-REO to acquire properties at a huge discount. Learn more abour PreREO: prereo.com (800) 555-1055

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If we follow that advice, what do we do in an economic environment like today? Austrian economists would tell us to stop printing money and to keep the Fed out of the bond market. If we did that, we would go into a depression. No one denies that—not even the Austrians. The disagreement is on whether or not it’s the right thing to do for the long term. The bad news for the Austrians is that they are grossly outnumbered and we do not live in a gold-backed world. We live in a Keynesian wet dream with essentially limitless money printing and government spending. For now, it’s keeping the economy alive. We did the same type of stuff in 2008 and it saved us then as well. Oh…by the way, we didn’t get the inflation that was predicted by the Austrians either. Instead, we shipped it off to the rest of the world without trade deficit. We could very well do the same this time around. It’s a bizarre economy that’s for sure. But don’t fight it. Just try to understand it and do as the Romans do. There may be a day of reckoning from this game we are playing but we need to ride this wave as long as we can. It’s the only thing we can do. But again, the first step is trying to understand what is going on. Understanding macroeconomics gives you a chance in a crazy financial climate. That’s what we are going to try to do again on this week’s episode of Wealth Formula Podcast as I once again interview economist Richard Duncan. Richard Duncan is the author of three books on the global economic crisis. The Dollar Crisis: Causes, Consequences, Cures (John Wiley & Sons, 2003, updated 2005), predicted the global economic disaster that began in 2008 with extraordinary accuracy. It was an international bestseller. His second book was The Corruption of Capitalism: A strategy to rebalance the global economy and restore sustainable growth. It was published by CLSA Books in December 2009. His latest book is The New Depression: The Breakdown Of The Paper Money Economy (John Wiley & Sons, 2012). Since beginning his career as an equities analyst in Hong Kong in 1986, Richard has served as global head of investment strategy at ABN AMRO Asset Management in London, worked as a financial sector specialist for the World Bank in Washington D.C., and headed equity research departments for James Capel Securities and Salomon Brothers in Bangkok. He also worked as a consultant for the IMF in Thailand during the Asia Crisis. Richard has appeared frequently on CNBC, CNN, BBC and Bloomberg Television, as well as on BBC World Service Radio. He has published articles in The Financial Times, The Far East Economic Review, FinanceAsia and CFO Asia. He is also a well-known speaker whose audiences have included The World Economic Forum’s East Asia Economic Summit in Singapore, The EuroFinance Conference in Copenhagen, The Chief Financial Officers’ Roundtable in Shanghai, and The World Knowledge Forum in Seoul. Richard studied literature and economics at Vanderbilt University (1983) and international finance at Babson College (1986); and, between the two, spent a year traveling around the world as a backpacker. Shownotes: How much money has the Federal Reserve printed since the Covid-19 Pandemic started? Why printing more money does not automatically cause inflation Does Globalization allow us to essentially export our inflation? Can we just keep printing more money forever? RichardDuncanEconomics.com

Robert Kiyosaki’s Real Estate Advisor, Ken McElroy, was kind enough to give his perspective on the current state of apartment investing on last week’s episode of Wealth Formula Podcast. Ken’s perspective on the state of the apartment market was pretty bleak. While there is no doubt I respect Ken’s views, I also think it is important to get the perspective of others to begin formulating your own opinions. Remember smart people can, and often are, wrong. The extreme example is someone like Peter Schiff. I think Peter Schiff is a very smart guy but he’s also wrong a lot. He’s doing an end zone dance right now about the economy going south, but he’s been predicting that for years. Even a broken clock is accurate twice every day. Ken is definitely not a zombie apocalypse guy, but he also stopped buying real estate 3-4 years ago and has been on the sidelines since. During those years, there was money to be made and others as smart as Ken did exactly that. Don’t get me wrong, I respect the hell out of the guy. I just think it’s important to not take any one person’s predictions as fact. That’s not fair to him either. Instead, let us do what any intelligent person should do. Let’s gather facts. Let’s talk and listen to people on the ground who are monitoring what’s going on in real time. It’s hard to do that when you are not in the business every day. The most successful operators are following everything in real time and, so far, what’s really happening may surprise you. One of those guys you should be listening to is one of my real estate partners, Dante Andrade. Dante is based in Dallas and is one of the most granular researchers of real estate that I have ever met. So, if you are one of the many apartment investors out there trying to get informed of what’s really going on, you will NOT want to miss this episode of Wealth Formula Podcast. Dante is a man of many multifamily real estate hats. He is a buyer’s broker in Dallas, meaning that he is dedicated to the buyer side of acquisition of large multifamily real estate. He’s been involved in just under a billion dollars worth of transactions, focusing again specifically in the Dallas/Fort Worth market. He’s also a real estate coach and mentor and finally, and probably most importantly, he is my partner in our group called Touro Asset Management Group as we acquire a cash flowing multifamily real estate in Dallas. Shownotes: What today has been the net result of this entire COVID-19 assault on multifamily? What’s going on with Texas? Dante talks about why there aren’t more discounted properties in the market right now Why are people still paying rent despite the pandemic? Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than smart

I have been on the record for a while now anticipating the “tsunami following the earthquake.” In other words, COVID-19 was a destructive economic force but the aftermath may be even worse. The theory is based on historical observations of how these things tend to play out. The problem and potential flaw in the rationale, however, is that there really isn’t a situation that is truly parallel to what we face now. When has the entire world shut down for business for months at a time before? Never. But when has a country with the economic might of the United States flooded the system with so much money and so many ways to keep businesses alive? When has a country paid some people more to be unemployed than to work? I can’t think of any time like this. Can you? The point is that beyond my predictions and those of the other armchair economists whom you may follow lies a harsh reality—none of us really know what’s going to happen. Sure that tsunami I keep talking about seems likely but it may not happen because fiscal and monetary policy do their job and an earlier-than-expected vaccine saves the day. Alternatively, the tsunami could hurt selective parts of the economy and leave others relatively unscathed. So far, in multifamily real estate, our investor club is seeing asset performance matching if not exceeding pre-COVID levels across our portfolio! Our portfolio is a very specific niche, however. We focus on working-class apartment buildings in rapidly growing red state cities such as Dallas and Phoenix with relatively low cost of living index. The details matter. Being in Texas instead of California means we don’t have to worry about “rent strikes” and courts saying how much we can charge for rent. Population growth gives a natural benefit of increased housing demand. Being in working-class housing right now means two things. First, we have a lot more people moving down from  A to B and high C class housing then we have C class tenants moving down to the depths of D class hell. Our working-class tenants do appear to be working and those who are not are receiving unemployment benefits that are exceeding their typical salaries. These unemployment benefits are more than enough in low cost of living areas to buy food and pay the rent.  Conversely, people living in the A class apartments are losing jobs and unemployment doesn’t provide them with the ability to maintain the same lifestyle. Anyway, that’s what we are seeing right now. I should add that the demand of this housing has been such that we are continuing to raise rents. Crazy, isn’t it? Anyway, the point I’m trying to make here is that when you listen to anyone right now about what’s going to happen with the economy and with real estate, you have to listen to them in a nuanced context. You also need to remember that we have no idea what further fiscal and monetary policies will be unleashed in the next few months to further mitigate the damage to businesses. Listen to everyone who is worth listening to but make sure you identify the context and do a little thinking for yourself. Now, one of the guys that we should all listen to in the area of apartment buildings is Ken McElroy. Ken is probably best known as Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad advisor on real estate. However, I listen to Ken because he is a multifamily real estate syndicator who has had a lot of success for a long time. Ken’s niche is a little different than mine. He’s an A class and new construction guy but what he has to say in the context of what’s going on right now is important for all of us to digest. So make sure to listen to this week’s episode of Wealth Formula Podcast as Ken McElroy and I dive into the Post-Covid Real Estate Reality. Ken McElroy is the epitome of the word entrepreneur. For over two decades, Ken McElroy has experienced massive success in the real estate world-from investment analysis and property management to acquisitions and property development. With over $750 million investment dollars in real estate, Ken offers a unique perspective on how to get the biggest return on investments. Ken is the author of the best-selling books The ABC’s of Real Estate Investing, The Advanced Guide to Real Estate Investing, The ABC’s of Property Management, and most recently his book on entrepreneurship: The Sleeping Giant, where he shares his real-life examples and ideology of how to be successful in business and in life. As the Real Estate Advisor to Robert Kiyosaki of The Rich Dad Company, Ken is also a chapter contributor in the newly released Rich Dad book, More Important Than Money: an Entrepreneur’s Team. A champion and advocate for entrepreneurs and real estate investors, Ken has spoken worldwide at top industry events. With media appearances on television and radio, Ken also host Entrepreneur Magazine’s Real Estate Radio program, where he helps listeners navigate the financial and legal arenas of real estate. Never taking life for granted, Ken is active in the community. He has served on advisory boards for Child Help and AZ Food Banks where he conducted the largest food drive in the state of Arizona. Ken was the Walk Chair for Autism Speaks Arizona for both 2015 and 2016. He currently serves on the Board of Directors for the Southwest Autism Research and Resource Center (SARRC). Ken and his family reside in Scottsdale, Arizona. In the MC Family he is a strong advocate for The Sharing the Good Life Foundation allowing all MC employees the opportunity to join him in the pursuit of giving back to the community. Shownotes: How has the pandemic affected Ken’s business? Real estate fills a need for the people, not the other way around When will we know when it is time to buy? Ken’s latest book, “Return to Orchard Canyon” kenmcelroy.com mccompanies.com