Telling Jefferson Lies: Debunking the Myth that America was Founded as a Christian Nation

Send us a textSince the founding era, Christian nationalists have told and believed myths about the founders and their religious views.  Paul Matzko, historian and researcher with the Cato Institute and Anna Berkes, librarian at Monticello's Jefferson Library talk to me about the persistence of these stories throughout the history of the U.S. Then, I fact-check a fable involving Thomas Jefferson and Daniel Webster which has been lately told by Eric Metaxas and David Barton but has been around since 1858. This is an episode which demonstrates how to examine the context and facts of historical claims. Specifically, I address the claims that Thomas Jefferson told Daniel Webster, "I have always said, and I always will say, that the studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands."The next regular episode -- Whitewashing Jefferson -- will come out on February 21. There is much more about these fables in our book Getting Jefferson Right. More information about the book is at GettingJeffersonRight.com.Music for today's episode was provided by Jonathan Swaim, Greg Thornbury, the Columbia Quartet, and Warren Throckmorton. 

Send us a textWhat was so wrong with The Jefferson Lies that Thomas Nelson decided to pull the book from publication? In this episode, Michael Coulter and Warren Throckmorton start answering that question by pulling  material from their book, Getting Jefferson Right. In this episode, we take long looks into Barton’s handling of the Danbury Baptist letter to Thomas Jefferson, the Jefferson Bible, and a fable about Jefferson and church attendance.  We show how the use of ellipses, second and third-hand sources, and a creative imagination can make historical fiction out of history. SHOW NOTES:The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth (The 1820 Jefferson Bible)https://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdfLetter from the Danbury Baptistshttps://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-35-02-0331Letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptistshttps://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-36-02-0152-0006Telling Jefferson Lies is written and produced by Warren Throckmorton. Today’s installment was hosted by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter. The podcast is brought to you by the second edition of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson by Throckmorton and Coulter and available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or just about anywhere books are sold. For more information, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. The next episode Whitewash will post in two weeks on February 21. In the meantime, I plan a bonus episode for sometime next week. Stay tuned for that. Today’s closing song is "Ain’t It a Shame to Work on Sunday" by the Bethel Jubilee Quartet and written by T.H. Wiseman. Telling Jefferson Lies Theme song is "The World Awaits Us All" by Roman Candle. Background music was provided by Roman Candle and Warren Throckmorton.  I want to acknowledge Right Wing Watch for providing many video clips on YouTube.Please like the podcast and spread the word on social media. Every podcaster says that but it really does help and it makes us feel good too. 

Send us a textIn 2012, only four months after release, publisher Thomas Nelson removed David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies from publication.  Many people blamed or credited a book by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter titled Getting Jefferson Right for moving the publisher in that direction. What happened?Building on the foundation of the first two episodes, this installment in the Telling Jefferson Lies series provides the backstory to what was an unprecedented event for one of the largest Christian publishers in the nation. Warren Throckmorton interviews many of the people who were involved and supplies his perspective on what happened and why it happened. Interviews with historians Greg Forster, Glenn Sunshine, Gregg Frazer, Glenn Moots, Troy Jackson, David Austin Walsh, journalist Bob Smietana and Getting Jefferson Right co-author Michael Coulter pull back the curtain on an event that exposed the deficits in Christian nationalist story telling. Show Notes:For more information about Getting Jefferson Right, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. Telling Jefferson Lies is written and produced by Warren Throckmorton. Today’s installment was hosted by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter. The podcast is brought to you by the second edition of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson by Throckmorton and Coulter and available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop.org or just about anywhere books are sold. For more information, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. Today’s closing song is Sparkle by Dustin Blatnik. Telling Jefferson Lies Theme song is The World Awaits Us All by Roman Candle. Background music was provided by Jonathan Swaim, Dustin Blatnik, Larry Norman and Warren Throckmorton. For more information about Dustin Blatnik, go to www.DustinBlatnik.comFor more music from Roman Candle, go to Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3V65gQpFTfYzIOqjOf18eSAt the end of the series, watch for a playlist of as many songs from the series as I can compile on Spotify and Amazon. Dreams on a Grey Afternoon appears courtesy of Charles Norman and the Larry Norman estate. Please like the podcast and spread the word on social media. Every podcaster says that but it really does help and it makes us feel good too. 

Send us a text"You know, he is the where's Waldo of the movement. He's a little bit everywhere."  Katherine Stewart, author of Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Christian Nationalism.  "He's managed to create a kind of brand in a way for himself through Wallbuilders of being a trusted authority on the American past." Randall Stephens, professor of American Studies at the University of Oslo in Norway. In this episode, we examine how David Barton bounced back from his early problems and thrived by creating a brand as a trusted authority on American history. His packed schedule of activities and organizations made him indispensable to the Christian right. We also examine what makes the Christian nationalist message so attractive to evangelicals and why many may not care about allegations of bad history or faulty facts. This episode sets up the next episode, The Cataclysm, which will tell what happened to David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies, the book that was pulled from publication by Thomas Nelson after only being out for 4 months. SHOW NOTES:Separation of Church and State website:https://candst.tripod.com/tnpintro.htmA critique of David Barton's views of church and statehttps://bjconline.org/a-critique-of-david-bartons-views-on-church-and-state/Chris Rodda - Liars for Jesushttps://bookshop.org/p/books/liars-for-jesus-the-religious-right-s-alternate-version-of-american-history-vol-1-chris-rodda/7396939?ean=9781523284139Music:Roman Candle on Spotifyhttps://open.spotify.com/artist/3V65gQpFTfYzIOqjOf18eSTheme song: The World Awaits Us All by Roman CandleClosing song: The End of the Street by Roman CandleBackground music: Jonus Fair, Jonathan Swaim, Roman Candle & Warren Throckmorton

Prominent historian and author David Barton discusses the controversy surrounding his book on Thomas Jefferson, exploring historical revisionism and Christian nationalism. Expert historians provide insights on pitfalls of Christian nationalism and the importance of accurate historical representation. The episode features commentary from Julie Ingersoll, John Fea, Rob Boston, and Gregg Frazer.

Send us a textTelling Jefferson Lies not only documents the role of revisionist history in the maintenance of Christian nationalism, it addresses what Christian nationalism is about.  This weekend seems like a good time to preview that aspect of the series.  The series starts in two weeks with a look at the origin story of America's Premier Historian, followed by an examination of the cataclysm of The Jefferson Lies of 2012. Then we take a look at a brief year long window when evangelical leaders had a choice about what to do with Christian nationalist revisionist history. There always is a choice, but for a brief window of time, evangelical leaders actually took some steps to hold Christian story tellers accountable. However, almost as quickly as the opportunity came, it vanished into the conspiracy of silence that continues until today. The guest speakers on today's preview are Julie Ingersoll, Katherine Stewart, and Paul Matzko. I start us off and finish up. Julie Ingersoll is professor of religious studies at the University of North Florida. She is the author of Building God's Kingdom: Inside the World of Christian Reconstructionism.Katherine Stewart is an investigative reporter and author who has covered religious liberty, politics, policy, and education for over a decade. Her latest book is The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism.Paul Matzko is a historian and research fellow for media studies at the Cato Institute. He is the author of The Radio Right: How a Band of Broadcasters Took on the Federal Government and Built the Modern Conservative Movement.If you haven't listened to the first two trailers, go give them a listen and please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Background music "Debris" by Roman Candle - used by kind permission. 

Send us a textA brief preview of the upcoming series Telling Jefferson Lies. Telling Jefferson Lies chronicles how history can be hijacked for ideological and political purposes. We begin with the extraordinary story of how David Barton’s best-selling book about Thomas Jefferson was pulled from publication due to historical errors. After telling that backstory, some of which has never been disclosed, we described the reaction of the academic and church worlds. How Christian nationalists reacted moves us into a much broader story about the consequences of believing myths and failing to get history right. In the academic world, having a book pulled for reasons relating to errors would be a career-ending event. However, the Thomas Nelson episode barely hindered David Barton and Christian nationalist history. Why is that? In this series, we explore the differences and why the evangelical world can't seem to quit faulty history.  The podcast takes material from the new second edition of the book Getting Jefferson Right by Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter and available at online booksellers and gettingjeffersonright.com.  Subscribe today and watch for additional previews before the anticipated mid-January launch. SHOW NOTESJohn Stonestreet, "Getting Jefferson Right", The Point Blog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka0aFra8RfUMusic by Warren Throckmorton

Send us a textThis is the first teaser/trailer for the podcast series which begins in January, 2024. Show Notes:The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill by Christianity Today, hosted by Mike Cosper, from Episode 11, The Tempest. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/tempest-mars-hill-driscoll.html.Music by Warren ThrockmortonFor more information about Getting Jefferson Right: Fact-Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson, go to gettingjeffersonright.com. When you buy the book, make sure you get the second edition which just came out in 2023.