Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em Podcast

Mikhail Gorbachev’s passing reminds Sarah of one of the strangest assignments of her career: Interviewing the man who presided over the end of the Cold War … about his luggage. Meanwhile, Nancy is apoplectic about an uptick in Portland violence, including a tragic and preventable murder over the weekend.But the crux of this week’s episode is “Untold: The Girlfriend Who Didn’t Exist,” a two-hour Netflix documentary about the Manti Te’o catfishing scandal that hijacked the college linebacker’s career and reputation. This was one hell of a hoax, raising questions about con artists, our capacity for belief, and love in the age of social media. Nancy sees similarities in literary hoax JT Leroy. Sarah sees similarities in that dude from OKCupid who kept her on the phone for hours but canceled every date. Also discussed: A NYT opinion column on “the myth of maternal instinct” that places ideology over biological realities. Recommendations from the Hot Box include a podcast combining hair metal and CIA intrigue as well as a great book on the writing life, but Sarah’s ill-fated attempt to share an inspiring quote from that book includes the phrase “know your bone,” which goes over as expected ... This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Adventures in failing to become a movie star, from chocolate "blood" squirted onto peignoirs to having a Times Square "agent" ask me to stand on his chest. Next chapter of my book, FORTY BUCKS AND A DREAM: STORIES OF LOS ANGELES, being published on Substack This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Linda Evangelista’s appearance on the cover of British Vogue sparks controversy over beauty and fantasy. The ladies discuss "quiet quitting": Is it good, bad, a sign of progress, not a story at all? Is "House of Dragons" worth it? And how did Andrew Dice Clay get memory-holed? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

“I Regret Being a Slut” is the provocative title of an essay published this week by writer and podcaster Bridget Phetasy, who writes, of her earlier sexual adventurism: “At the time, I would have told you I was ‘liberated’ even while I tried to drink away the sick feeling of rejection when my most recent hook-up didn’t call me back. At the time, I would have said one-night stands made me feel “emboldened.” But in reality, I was using sex like a drug; trying unsuccessfully to fill a hole inside me with men. (Pun intended.)”Nancy and Sarah agree that random hook-ups can be the junk food of sex, if not exactly what drove each of them to try to do her own filling up. They do agree on how that worked out: kinda meh. They also agree that the recent spate of doomsday articles about the sexual revolution ain’t exactly bringing back the joy. Speaking of the joy of sex, two of America’s biggest movie stars could not apparently keep their hands off each other; had two doors on their bedroom to keep out little children’s prying eyes, and at one point built a fuck hut. But all was not romance or as it seemed, according to Sarah, who’s seen all six episodes of “The Last Movie Stars,” the docu-series that chronicles the decades-long careers and marriage of Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward. Nancy wonders if Ethan Hawke, who directed the series, is mining the complicated marriage of others’ in order to figure out his own former union with actress Uma Thurman. Spoiler alert from Sarah: May-be.Hat tips to authors Stephen King and Richard Ford, curiosity about whether safe-guarding anxiety works out in the long run, and fresh-and-toasty offerings from the Hot Box! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

We look at a post-Roe landscape, as Nancy talks about a recent reporting trip to Kansas to cover a surprising vote, where citizens affirmed the right for women to have access to legal abortion. Sarah updates us on what’s happening in Texas, including the rise of crisis pregnancy centers, how abortion providers might set sail on the “lawless oceans,” and a possible uptick in male vasectomies that makes her wonder: Will male contraception ever be a thing? They both discuss their mutual love of being on the road, of driving into the story and into the unknown. This week also marks the loss of a beauty with a clear voice, Olivia Newton-John: songbird, champion for breast cancer awareness, and certified babe. After the shock of finding out Nancy has never seen the movie Grease, Sarah serves up some hand-crafted Olivia Newton-John trivia. How will Nancy fare? (Not bad.) Sarah then dives into the 6,600 (!!) pages of unsealed Depp-Heard documents that have helped push public opinion toward the Heard camp, but are the revelations really so damning? Sarah’s not so sure … Plus: this week’s hot and tasty offerings from the Hot Box!This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this or get access to bonus episodes, visit https://smokeempodcast.substack.com/ This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

“I don’t need any more reasons to hate the human race,” a friend said, about his aversion of watching the new Netflix series “The Most Hated Man on the Internet.” Is its subject, Hunter Moore, who revels in posting revenge porn and tweeting things like, “Fuck bitches, get money, do blow,” easy to hate? That would be a resounding yes. And yet, as Nancy and Sarah discuss, the internet of the aughts was like opening a door on a cyclone, the people who stepped inside often having no appreciation for how their lives could be wrecked with one click. Oh how things have changed since 2012 …Or have we just stepped into a different sort of storm, one that does not carry us off but keeps us walking in place? After praising the crack writing of Allison P. Davis’s essay about her ten years on Tinder, Sarah wonders if dating apps keep people on “the hedonic treadmill,” Nancy questions whether engineering one’s choice of partner axiomatically cuts out the mystery, and both agree (hope?) the pursuit of love and/or sex might be hacked in one’s favor. The girls give their hotbox picks of the week before Nancy has to jet early to a very important hair coloring appointment.*Not here for hook-ups, but we do promise a deep and mutually beneficial relationship if you become a free or paid subscriber. Episode Notes:“The Most Hated Man on the Internet” official trailer“Hunter Moore: The Most Hated Man on the Internet,” by Alex Morris (Rolling Stone) “Rude, Crude, and Coming to a Theater Near You,” story about new Tucker Max movie by Dave Itzkoff (New York Times)“Paris Hilton’s sex tape was revenge porn. The world gleefully watched,” by Constance Grady (Vox)“Tinder Hearted: How did a dating app become my longest running relationship?” by Allison P. Davis (The Cut)“Meeting online has become the most popular way U.S. couples connect, Stanford sociologist finds,” by Alex Shaskevich (Stanford News) “1,232-Swiper Poll,” stats on Tinder by Paula Aceves (The Cut)That time Sarah matched with Beto on Tinder (true story, no idea why he was on that app, or if it was even him) …Thy Neighbor’s Wife, by Gay TaleseSo You’ve Been Publicly Shamed, by Jon RonsonMax Mosley, Formula One racer and son of fascist leader Sir Oswald Mosley and Lady Diana Mitford, “who won landmark privacy case against News of the World over masochistic orgy with five prostitutes.”Choosing The Sisters: The Saga of the Mitford Family by Mary S. Lovell as an entree into the Mitford sisters, “a close, loving family splintered by the violent ideologies of Europe between the world wars. Jessica was a Communist; Debo became the Duchess of Devonshire; Nancy was one of the best-selling novelists of her day; beautiful Diana married the Fascist leader Sir Oswald Mosley; and Unity, a close friend of Hitler, shot herself in the head when England and Germany declared war.” There are many others to choose from! What’s in your hotbox?Sarah: The Last Movie Stars about Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward, directed by Ethan Hawke… whose hirsute mug is the trailer’s screenshot, as opposed to Newman’s eye-melting beauty or the creamy lusciousness of Woodward, and might you change that, HBO?Nancy: The Baseball 100, by Joe PosnanskiOutro song: “The Things We Do For Love” by 10ccWe do this podcast thing for love. And for money! And thank everyone for their new paid and free subscriptions *smoke ‘em This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

As I wrote a few months ago, with regard to true crime books, "All stories are worth telling well, but especially the difficult ones, when we need the writer's assurance as we walk down the dark passage."As someone who occasionally takes on such stories, I'm interested in how and why other true crime writers approach the work. My lead-off interview is with Kathryn Miles, author of "TRAILED: One Woman's Quest to Solve the Shenandoah Murders," about the horrific unsolved 1996 murders of two young women with Shenandoah National Park.Miles does what the best true crime writers do. She takes on the awesome responsibility of explaining murder, with compassion and clear-eyes and deeply empathetic reporting.As she writes in TRAILED, "Maybe, just maybe, when two selfless, joyful, beautiful humans die in a place, what's left behind is not the agony of their deaths, but the brilliance of their lives."Miles is the author of Superstorm: Nine Days Inside Hurricane Sandy and Quakeland: On the Road to America's Next Devastating Earthquake, among other books. More about Miles at kathrynmiles.net - N.R.Trailed: One Woman's Quest to Solve the Shenandoah Murders, by Kathryn Miles. Shot in the Heart, by Mikal GilmoreLost Girls, by Robert KolkerBlood Will Out, by Walter KirnThe Adversary, by Emmanuel CarrereColumbine, by Dave CullenDown City, by Leah CarrollI’ll Be Gone in the Dark, by Michelle McNamaraSay Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern IrelandThe Journalist and the Murderer, by Janet MalcomHelter Skelter, by Vincent BugliosiIn Cold Blood, by Truman CapoteCrossed Over, by Beverly LowryUnder the Banner of Heaven, by Jon Krakauer This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

A New Yorker employee slags the company for lack of diversity on Twitter, and things get messy from there. Nancy and Sarah try to untangle the strange case of Erin Overbey, who was fired by the magazine earlier this week, following accusations that editor-in-chief David Remnick inserted errors into her own work. Nancy looks at a few other recent cases where attempts to oust the higher-ups have backfired, and we talk about how so many attempts at instant justice turn into circular firing squads. Also on deck: Is Twitter the new Gawker? Is the word “cocky” demeaning? Why does Sarah find middle names so interesting? And what up with all the last names ending in “-ola”? Sarah HepOLA shares her confused delight over Nathan Fielder’s “The Rehearsal” on HBO and Nancy ANN Rommelmann explains why baseball is America’s sport forever and always amen. But before we go, we must get to the bottom of why Adam Driver gets us so hot.Adam - we call him Adam - says he’ll buy you a drink if you become a paid or free Smoke ‘Em subscriberEpisode Notes:A list of Finnish last names, including many ending in “ola”Wilcox Park in Dutchess County, New York, also the site of Paloma Media north, a site you should peruse and subscribe to!“Small Business Owners Sound Off on Crushing Inflation,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Common Sense)“Hulk Hogan's Gawker lawsuit bankrolled by Silicon Valley billionaire” (CBS News)Nobody Speak official trailerSome corroboration that Twitter is the new Gawker, from Freddie deBoer“Rest in Power, White Ladies,” Sarah Hagi on the death of Joan Didion (Gawker)“Bloodbath at the New York Times,” Nancy Rommelmann on the defenestration of Donald McNeil Jr. “The New York Times Succumbed to Another Mob. Journalism Is Unrecognizable” and “Kids and Cowards: What Really Happened to Donald McNeil at the New York Times” by Nancy Rommelmann (Newsweek)“Words as Weapons: How Activist Journalists are Changing the New York Times,” by Nancy Rommelmann (The Dispatch)Erin Overbey June 19 tweet threadDavid Remnick, editor-in-chief of The New YorkerErin Overbey June 25 tweet threadPolitico follow-up on Overbey story confirms there were emails with Remnick that contained the two errors she was later dinged for“The NYT Enters The Youth Gender Fray And Philadelphia's Mina's World Coffee Shop Melts Down Spectacularly,” Blocked and Reported podcastDoc Marie’s bar in Portland closes in less than a week after employees demand owners turn over the business to them“The Rehearsal” official trailerNathan Fielder has job interview using 7-year-old's answers: “Why Baseball Fans Might Find the Hall of Fame Interesting!” Matt Welch and Nancy Rommelmann on Paloma Media YouTubeUnderworld and White Noise by Don DeLilloA robot-voiced trailer for White Noise film that features many images of Adam DriverOutro song: “Blue,” by The JayhawksAnd speaking of! Wonderful listener Dorothy made a Smoke ‘Em Spotify playlist! Share the Smoke with your peepsStudies show you are at least 75% more likely to be a free or paid subscriber if you sign up to be one This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

It’s mid-July. Sarah’s sizzling in the hell mouth that is Dallas, Nancy’s mired in NYC’s hot human grime, and both think it’s a really good idea to stay inside and watch some television. “The Bear” on FX/Hulu turns out to be the distraction they need, a high-octane but humane adventure set in a Chicago kitchen. Nancy is moved to tears by the sight of broken people trying to be better. Sarah gets sucked in by the characters learning from each other and finding self-respect in their work. And both Nancy and Sarah are captivated by the making of a cake. Another treat turns out to be “How to Change Your Mind,” a four-part docu-series about psychedelics based on the 2018 Michael Pollan book that Sarah kept meaning to read. (Thank you, Netflix.) We learn under-the-radar histories about LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, and mescaline, and hear from folks who say these long-vilified drugs can alleviate suffering, ease trauma, and evoke wonder. Sarah wonders if a sober life includes room for psychedelics. Nancy wonders if that amazing drug she once took was actually mescaline. Also discussed: men and crying, fear of death, and keg stands.A very under-appreciated intoxicant is becoming a free or paid subscriberEpisode Notes:NOMA, in Copenhagen, often named best restaurant in the world“The Bear” official trailerDavid Chang, chef and founder of the Momofuku restaurant chain and all-around interesting person, including on his podcast, The Ringer. Nancy finds Chang a very human guy, very ready to admit the hardships and show the love. He also let his pastry chef Christina Tosi, who later created Milk Bar Bakery, go wild, including coming up with the gooey crunchy butter bomb that is Crack Pie. Here’s the written recipe and, food porn alert, a video so you can watch the buttery deliciousness in action.“Ugly Delicious” official trailerKitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly, by Anthony Bourdain, which Nancy recommends reading out loud to someone, as it will make both of you laugh and go, “Whoa…”Before his death in 2018, Bourdain hosted four TV series — “A Cook's Tour” (2002–2003); “No Reservations” (2005–2012), “The Layover” (2011–2013) and “Parts Unknown” (2013–2018) — and appeared on countless others. Love and miss him.Roadrunner: A Film About Anthony Bourdain official trailerEighth Grade official trailerEbon Moss-Bachrach, who plays Richie on “The Bear,” is so expressive and wounded even his eye-bags speak to the mistakes and tumult of his life“Colin the Chicken,” PortlandiaAl-Anon website“How to Change Your Mind” official trailerDEA Say No to Drugs ads 1980s compilation“An Alcoholic’s Savior: God, Belladonna, or Both?” by Howard Markel, MD (New York Times)“The Science Behind Why Women Cry More Than Men,” by Liz Newman (Thrillist)Comedian Michael Ian Black talks about a different kind of “wet dream” (NPR’s Fresh Air)“Taking My Ex Back In (for His Own Good),” Modern Love essay in which Nancy tells the story of Tim crying (New York Times)David Levine caricature archive at The New York Review of BooksAfter wrapping, Nancy and Sarah realized they did not discuss how amazing the music is in “The Bear,” including songs by Wilco, Budos Band, AC/DC, The Breeders, the Beach Boys and others; full list is here, including…Outro song: “Chicago” by Sufjan Stevens“Magic 8-Ball, will Nancy bake Crack Pie for those who sign up as Smoke ‘Em founding members?” “Signs point to yes!” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Does college need to be reimagined? A new experimental university committed to free speech called the University of Austin drew mockery on Twitter when it was first announced, but the place is no joke: The college got 3,500 inquiries from professors in its first week, and has since raised $100 million dollars. Nancy and Sarah can’t help feeling invigorated by this kind of innovation (even if Sarah is confused by the name, since it’s pretty close to her alma mater, the University of Texas at Austin). We share our admiration for a recent speech given by founding trustee and journalist Bari Weiss at the university’s inaugural event, where she diagnoses our current malaise and dares to be optimistic — even patriotic — about what comes next. How do we conserve the best of American values while creating new things? Speaking of innovations, we discuss a recent New Yorker essay about a “hook-up app for the emotionally mature,” which caters to alternative sexualities, ethical non-monogamy, and kink. Nancy is reminded of Sarah’s observation that each generation tries to hack sex; Sarah is fascinated by the popularity of the app’s “Fantasy Bunker,” exclusively for virtual sexting and folks who prefer the safe sex of the cloud to IRL action. As technology gives us more choices for expressing our desires, we wonder: Can pleasure really be engineered? And whatever happened to making out?The summer heat is unbearable, but things get cooler when you consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Episode Notes:“Dr. Jill's Taco Gaffe, and Narrative vs. Truth, with Kmele Foster, Michael Moynihan, and Matt Welch,” The Megyn Kelly Show“The Evil of Banality,” by Jake Siegel (Tablet)“‘Are You Are Becoming A Republican Or Something?’ Sarah Hepola On Letting Down The Left Without Ever Leaving It,” The Unspeakable Podcast with Meghan Daum“Why Republicans Shouldn’t Want Donald Trump to Run Again,” by Ben Dreyfuss (Substack)…… and one more from Ben, who’s on a roll this week: “If you think Jon Stewart should run for president, you should go to a mental asylum.”All you might ever want to know about Peter Boghossian, except maybe that the first time he and Nancy met they ate barbecue and the conversation was so intense, the meat was flying! Peter later asked Nancy to make videos about her experience covering antifa in Portland summer 2020. There are ten (!). Here’s one and the link to the series.“The New Founders America Needs,” Bari Weiss speech to incoming class at UATX, audio (Honestly podcast) “The New Founders America Needs,” written version (Common Sense)“A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost’” by Douglas Belkin (Wall Street Journal; may be paywalled)Blackout: Remembering the Things I Drank to Forget, by Sarah HepolaSt. John’s College curriculum “focused on the most important books and ideas of Western civilization”Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has one of the most devastating and interesting histories of any living person, including having to go into hiding after Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who’d worked with Hirsi Ali on a short film (“Submission”), was assassinated by an Islamic extremist.1883 official trailer“The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake,” by David Brooks (The Atlantic)Gratuitous but super-cool interactive graphic showing the evanescence of internet superiority“The Hookup App For the Emotionally Mature,” by Emily Witt (The New Yorker)Outro Song: “Light and Day,” The Polyphonic SpreeOK, people, you won’t find this anywhere else: Nancy’s cookies might be your reward when you become a paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe