Built on Bitcoin with Jacob Brown

In a captivating debate, Harsha Goli, CEO of Magnolia and former engineer, argues for the Lightning Network's potential in streamlining Bitcoin transactions, highlighting its growing adoption. Conversely, Paul Sztorc, the creator of Drive Chains, raises alarms about custodial risks and scalability concerns, comparing it to past tech failures. The discussion dives into technical challenges, the hype surrounding innovations, and the regulatory landscape, questioning if the Lightning Network is indeed crucial for Bitcoin's future or an overhyped concept.

If you want to understand the forces shaping Bitcoin's future, this is the episode for you.The kickback crew is back after an 8-month hiatus to discuss:00:00 Running and Training for Marathons01:59 Reflections on Bitcoin Vegas05:52 The OP_RETURN Drama and Bitcoin Core12:08 Scaling Bitcoin: CTV and CheckSig from Stack24:52 Debating Bitcoin Upgrades30:01 The Rise of OdinFun33:11 Alkanes and Meta Protocols42:59 Nerdaxes and Open Source MiningFollow the crew on TwitterCharlie: https://x.com/cbspearsBob: https://x.com/BobBodilyDonny: https://x.com/itsdonnyokJake: https://x.com/JakeBlockchainFollow the Built on Bitcoin podcast on Twitter: https://x.com/builtonbtcpodCatch up on past episodes at https://www.builtonbitcoin.xyz/Subscribe to the newsletter:https://builtonbitcoin.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Kevin He, a seasoned blockchain architect with experience launching multiple L1s/L2s (including Huobi Eco Chain), joins the show to discuss Bitlayer. We explore his journey into crypto, the genesis of Bitlayer, and take a deep dive into BitVM technology - what it is, how it works, its current development status (BitVM 2, Alliance progress, auditing), and how Bitlayer is leveraging it to build trust-minimized Bitcoin L2 solutions, focusing on DeFi. Kevin shares insights on the Bitcoin opcode debate, the future of Bitcoin scaling, and reveals Bitlayer's upcoming BitVM bridge mainnet launch. What we talk about: 00:56 Kevin's Background: Building L1s/L2s & Early Lessons 10:36 The Genesis of Bitlayer & Addressing Bitcoin L2 Needs 18:00 Discovering BitVM: A Breakthrough for Bitcoin L2 Security 26:45 BitVM Explained: Verification, Not Just Computation 34:37 BitVM Development: V1 vs V2, ZK Challenges & Bridge Focus 41:30 Inside the BitVM Alliance: Technical Progress & On-Chain Impact 48:00 Alpha Leak: BitVM Auditing & Mainnet Progress 54:30 The Bitcoin Opcode Debate: Necessity and Impact on BitVM 01:04:00 Long-Term Bitcoin Sustainability: Fees vs Subsidy & Upgrades 01:08:00 Bitlayer's BitVM Bridge Mainnet Launch & Partnerships Follow Bitlayer on Twitter: @BitlayerLabs Learn more about Bitlayer: [https://www.bitlayer.org/](https://www.bitlayer.org/) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow me on Twitter: @JakeBlockchain Stay updated on everything Built on Bitcoin podcast: [https://www.builtonbitcoin.xyz/](https://www.builtonbitcoin.xyz/) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Building something amazing on Bitcoin? Connect with us at the Bitcoin Frontier Fund. We invest and assist the best early-stage founders building new user-cases for Bitcoin. Website: [https://www.btcfrontier.fund/](https://www.btcfrontier.fund/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/BTCFrontierFund](https://twitter.com/BTCFrontierFund) Love yall! See you in the next episode. Peace!

Is Lightning on its way out or primed for massive adoption? This is a question underlying so much of the discussion around Lightning on the timeline. So I sat down with Graham to discuss the state of Lightning in 2025. Recently they published a report in partnership with Fidelity Digital Assets and presented some great stats on the health of the network. This episode will make you bullish on Lightning. Check out this conversation with Graham Krizek - CEO & Founder of Voltage Cloud. Follow Graham on Twitter: https://x.com/gkrizek?lang=en Learn more about Voltage: https://www.voltage.cloud/

In this conversation, we sit down with Harsha Goli and delve into the complexities of Bitcoin compliance, exploring the challenges faced by startups in navigating regulatory landscapes. Harsha shares his extensive background in the Bitcoin space, highlighting the importance of compliance and the impact of regulations on innovation. We discuss the current state of regulatory uncertainty, the implications of KYC and AML requirements, and the evolving role of custodial and non-custodial solutions. The conversation also touches on the tax implications of cryptocurrency transactions and the future of stablecoins in the regulatory framework.Follow Harsha on Twitter: @_arshbotLearn more about Magnolia on their website: https://magnolia.financial/

In this episode, we sit down with Dominik Harz, co-founder of BOB (Build on Bitcoin), to explore the cutting edge of Bitcoin scaling and interoperability. Dom dives deep into the challenges and opportunities of building on Bitcoin, focusing on Bob's innovative approach to bridging Bitcoin with other networks like Ethereum using BitVM. We discuss the importance of network effects, the intricacies of cross-chain security, and the practical considerations for users interacting with these technologies. Dom also shares his journey from academia to entrepreneurship and the unique hybrid L2 model Bob is implementing. This conversation provides a fascinating look into the future of Bitcoin and its potential to connect with the broader crypto ecosystem. What we talk about: Dominik's background and journey into the Bitcoin spaceThe evolution of Bitcoin and the need for scaling solutionsBob's approach to bridging Bitcoin with other chains using BitVMThe importance of network effects in cryptoChallenges and solutions in cross-chain securityPractical considerations for users and the future of BobThe hybrid L2 model and its implicationsTransitioning from academia to entrepreneurshipFollow Dominik Harz on Twitter: https://x.com/dominik0_ Learn more about Bob: https://www.gobob.xyz/

Today, Matteo & Raul join me to discuss how Fluid Tokens is revolutionizing decentralized finance (DeFi) on Bitcoin. As pioneers in leveraging Bitcoin’s UTXO model with Ordinals & Runes, they’re building innovative DeFi primitives like staking, lending, and decentralized exchanges (DEXs) in a trustless and permissionless way.In this episode, we explore:• [00:00] Surviving the Bear Market and Building in Web3• [07:00] Matteo & Raul’s Journey into Crypto• [13:00] Understanding UTXO: Why It’s Better for DeFi• [23:30] Fluid’s Current Products: Lending, Staking, and DEXs• [30:00] The Future of Bitcoin OS and ZK Bridges• [37:00] Pushing Bitcoin Script to Its Limits• [45:00] The Role of Account Abstraction in DeFi’s UX EvolutionFollow Fluid Tokens:• Website:https://fluidtokens.com/• Twitter: @FluidTokensXBTFollow me on Twitter: @JakeBlockchainStay updated on everything Built on Bitcoin podcast: https://www.builtonbitcoin.xyz/Building something amazing on Bitcoin? Connect with us at the Bitcoin Frontier Fund. We invest in and assist the best early-stage founders building new use cases for Bitcoin.Website: https://btcfrontier.fund/Twitter: @BTCFrontierFundLove y’all! See you in the next episode. Peace!

Jakob Schillinger, CEO and Founder of Hermetica, specializes in building a decentralized finance system on Bitcoin using stablecoins. He dives into the evolution of Bitcoin adoption and the rising role of stablecoins, especially in emerging markets. Jakob shares his entrepreneurial journey with Bitcoin, discussing the various types of stablecoins and how Hermetica aims to create value stability. The conversation also touches on the challenges and innovations within Layer 2 solutions and the practical applications needed for the future of decentralized finance.

Today we have Mithil Thakore, co-founder of Velar, on the podcast. Velar is a DeFi application focused on providing yield on Bitcoin. Mithil shares his journey in the crypto space, the vision behind Velar, and the importance of building on Bitcoin's secure infrastructure. The discussion delves into the differences between L1 and L2 solutions, the current product offerings of Velar, and an in-depth explanation of derivatives and perpetual contracts in the crypto market. The intricacies of perpetual decentralized exchanges (perp DEXs), their development, and the future of Bitcoin DeFi. He explains the differences between perpetual contracts and futures, the importance of liquidity and low latency in trading, and the trust assumptions involved in using Bitcoin Layer 2 solutions. Finally, he emphasizes the potential of decentralized finance on Bitcoin and his vision for it to surpass Ethereum DeFi in the coming years.Follow Mithil on X: @RainFire09Follow Velar on X: @velarBTCCheck out Velar on their website: https://velar.com/

The time to board the Ark is coming. Ark is a new off-chain scaling solution for Bitcoin that plays nicely with other off-chain protocols like Lightning. Alex is the Head of Ecosystem at Ark Labs, in this conversation, we discuss:The current landscape of off-chain protocolsHow does Ark work?What will the UX feel like for users?Wen live on mainnet?Alex’s background in BitcoinAnd much more.Follow Ark Labs on Twitter: @ArkLabsHQLearn more about Ark: https://arklabs.to/Best place to dive deeper:https://arkdev.info/docs/learn/intro