
NextMeta
Crypto is a wild west - how do you keep up???
I‘ve been here for 8 years, and it‘s only gotten worse! So I interview big brain veterans, in attempts to find the meta.
Join us once a week for talks of onchain economies, decentralized societies and their impact on the real world.
https://linktr.ee/nextmeta
Latest episodes

Dec 9, 2021 • 60min
Frontiers of Coordination #1 with Richard D. Bartlett The Pre-DAO DAO OG
Richard D. Bartlett, aka “Rich dB”, has been working in pre-blockchain “DAOs” since the 2011 Occupy Wallstreet Movement. An engineer by training, Rich has merged his problem solving skills with his passion for compassionate, intelligent and inclusive ways of being together. He is the co-founder of Loomio and The Hum, and a director and longstanding member of Enspiral. Rich is rich with thoughts about “small-scale, high-trust cooperative organizing” and is now on a mission to fill in his knowledge gaps about what is happening at the cutting edge of DAO tech in web3.
In this episode, Peth picks Rich’s brain about pros and cons of decentralized orgs, pros and cons of hierarchical orgs, DAO benefits and drawbacks, common DAO misconceptions and... Wtf even are DAOs?! There is a huge focus on the core values and needs of members within decentralized groups, and how we can use these to create and scale projects.
Some of the Topics:
Occupy Wallstreet movement
Pros/Cons of Hierarchy
Scaling of leadership within armies
Leadership within decentralized orgs
Conflict Transformation & Reflection
Trusteless Orgs
Voting & Decision Making Processes
What makes a DAO?
How to create meaningful change
Peth & Rich explore a wide range of DAO concepts and perspectives. Rich explains some critical lessons learned from his experiences with decentralized orgs, in particular, the necessity of building and maintaining trust. When conflicts arise, there needs to be a process to resolve them and, better yet, reflect upon them to make organized change for the future.
The episode concludes Rich’s advice to metagamers to consider “the microscale”. Before completely redesigning society, consider the relationship between just two people: How can you increase mutual trust and support within that relationship?. “Organizations are just a big stack of human relationships,” so what you learn about trust and coordination between individuals can teach you a lot about organizing as a decentralized team.
References
Rich’s Site
Loomio
The Hum
Enspiral
Microsolidarity
Multi-stakeholder Cooperatives
Team of Teams Book
Agile Project Management
Emergent Strategy Book
The Tyranny of Structurelessness

Dec 3, 2021 • 60min
Humans of MetaGame #5 - Alec The Game B Builder
Alec is an experienced software developer, a parent and passionate about building a world on more resilient foundations. He currently lives in Salt Lake City and is a proud builder of MetaGame.
Alec had had a very successful career as a software developer for 15 years and worked on various challenging projects, but yearned for something more fulfilling. His experience as a developer however enabled him to set up a well-balanced life and have time for adventure and self-exploration. Growing older and wiser, he realized the value of "setting the ground for a more resilient future" which eventually led him to MetaGame. Alec is one of the few people that wasn't led to MetaGame by the usual crypto route. He came because he resonated with Game B values that MetaGame espoused.
He explains that Game B is a thought framework which takes a radical departure from the current socio-economic system and its predicaments, prioritizing meaning-making and impactful work. However, Alec expresses his frustration with Game B resources which are often too vague and offer no practical roadmap. Alec then reminds us that these revolutionary potentials of crypto are ultimately dependent to an infrastructure that the current failing system has made possible. In his words, "crypto is not the solution to everything."
Some of the topics that were discussed:
Collective Trauma, healing and the importance of mental health.
Non-specialized work, freelancing and UBI as stress relief.
Game B
The Metaverse as escapism from real world problems.
The challenges of intentional communities.
The problems of relying on investors in financing a cause
Finishing it off, the discussion turns to MetaGame, its evolution and its relationship to other DAOs. Peth and Alec agree on its goal of addressing crypto-newbies and functioning as a curator of web3 knowledge.
Alec is in it for the long run; his hopes and ambitions for the world are about long-term sustainability. He thinks that the degradation that the current system is bringing to the world to the world will only continue but a transition to an alternative need not be violent. This is where block-chain can shine! MetaGame is on the right path.
Resources:
Alec's Github
GameB
Future Thinkers
JRE #1736 - Tristan Harris & Daniel Schmachtenberger
Jordan Greenhall on Game B
MetaGame - A Game B of Sorts
Doomer Optimism
Liminal Village
The Commons Stack
Grassroots Economics Africa
The Free-rider Problem
The Tragedy of the Commons
Climate Change Conference

Nov 7, 2021 • 44min
Share What You're Makin' w/ Chair & Bacon #4 - Dekan Brown
Dekan is a Solidity developer & web3 shadowy super coder extraordinaire. He’s a lead at DAOhaus, a project dedicated to giving people the functionality to make DAOs run. In this episode Chair, unfortunately with no side of pork, catches Dekan in the wake of MCON and the two discuss reflections on web3’s past, and expectations for the next 2 years.
Dekan is a beacon of knowledge and experience in web3 development. He’s been building since days when every app had its own wallet, and DAO memberships & ephemeral keys were kept in local storage. He watched as web3 development moved from a nerdy space of devs passionate about privacy, encryption & decentralization to the land of UI/UX design, NFTs, defi opportunities and expansive communities. Short & sweet, this conversation w Chair & Dekan dives into assessments of this evolution and the importance of preserving early web3 values.
Some of the topics:
Web3 app hiccups in 2018
DAO cultural shifts as UX designers & artists entering the space
Defi & apeing in
Spam NFT phishing
Non-technical roles
Encryption and privacy
Cross-DAO integration
As a well sought-after Solidity dev, Dekan emphasizes that the foundation of web3 is decentralization, encryption & privacy. We’re trying to build more than just “web2.5”, and he recognizes that “non-technical people still have to make a cognitive leap into this world of thinking about things using the blockchain and smart contracts”.
The conversation concludes with a discussion of DAO collaboration projects and awesome tech. They touch on instances of using sidechain vote logic and DAO membership to control mainnet funds and take advantage of massive liquidity. It’s an episode you don’t want to miss! Keep listening at the end for a DAO-for-beginners back-and-forth with Chair & Bacon.
References
Dekan Brown Twitter
Dauhaus
Ameen Soleimani
MCON
RaidGuild
Rainbow Rolls
Metagame
MetaFam Twitter

Nov 5, 2021 • 50min
MetaView #16 - Liminal Village with Roberto and Laura
Roberto and Laura are co-founders of Liminal Village - a living and co-creating space in the center of Italy. In part inspired by Jacques Fresco’s idea of a Resource Based Economy, Liminal, meaning “a place of transition” or “a place that occupies both sides”, aims to bring value-aligned people together to build networks and co-create the future. They aim to support people to create value for the world, heal themselves and heal the collective, emphasizing the balance of personal, local and global needs.
In September, Roberto & Laura have hosted the first MetaGame worktreat & Liminal Village has recently been onboarded as the first physical guild in MetaGame. In this episode, we get into the details of Roberto & Laura’s origin stories, the beginnings of Liminal Village and details and philosophies of the village hubs.
Some of the Topics:
Providing free access to networks
Personal, local and global needs
Emotions manifesting as physical disease
Syncing work with lunar and solar cycles
Cons of Hackathons
Upgrading society’s OS
Resource mapping & sharing
Peth, Roberto & Laura discuss using natural cycles to guide progress, and focus on the need to “upgrade the operating system of society”; transitioning from money-driven industry to community-driven resource sharing. They dive deep into the importance of cultivating personal growth and community support, and the profound impacts these philosophies can have on the build in web3.
Resources:
Liminal Village
Resource Based Economy
Zeitgeist
The Venus Project

Oct 4, 2021 • 51min
Share What You're Makin' w/ Chair & Bacon #3 - Ross From LexDAO
Ross Campbell is the self-described “summoner” of LexDAO - a group of “shadowy super lawyers” on a mission to “research, develop and evangelize first-class legal methods and blockchain protocols that secure rules and promises with code rather than trust”. He’s a corporate lawyer turned crypto enthusiast who found web3 through his job (of all places) when clients started asking questions about the legal status of bitcoin. In this episode, Chair & Bacon interview Ross about all things legal & crypto, from smart contracts to e-residency to questionable characters in web3.
Some of the Topics:
Working online and legal system compatibility
Improving the efficiency of financial agreements w Blockchain
Onboarding lawyers into web3
LexDAO offerings & support
Connecting politics & DAOs
The legal future of crypto
Revamping citizenship
In a conversation that is both technical and fun, they dive into questions about how to integrate law into web3, how much longer to expect the “crypto wild west”, and the pros & cons of geographically-tethered nations. They also touch on Indian tag-wrestling pro sports, questionable politicians and Satoshi impersonators. Ross is a beacon of legal knowledge in a space of grey areas, and this is an episode you don’t want to miss!
References:
LexDAO Site
Ross Campbell on Twitter
LexDAO Discord
Craig Wright & Satoshi’s Vision
Lex Friedman interviewing Vitalik
Gary Gensler Deliberately Misrepresenting Crypto
Estonian E-Residency
Tornado Cash
Professional Kabaddi League
LoveSocietyDAO
Tim Time on Twitter
Raidguild
Sushiswap
Sourcecred

Sep 12, 2021 • 48min
Share What You're Makin' w/ Chair & Bacon #2 - Rambling w Yalor
Chair and Bacon are back! But not for long as they’re going on the roooad!! The road to MCON!
With them on this journey is one of the mangers of MCON, Yalor! Except…they don’t talk about MCON at all… Instead they have an interesting talk where they ramble through various topics surrounding governance and DAOs. Listen in for new insights and their opinions on the future of DAOs!

Sep 2, 2021 • 50min
MetaView #15 - Collaboration and Regenerativity with LuukDAO
Luuk is a Curaçao-born, Netherlands-dwelling, self-proclaimed “DAOist”. Starting his career learning administrative philosophy, he quickly fell down the DAO rabbit hole looking for ways to put abstract concepts into action. He is passionate about building organizations that leverage the efficiency, transparency and decentralization of web3 infrastructure and apply them to real-world problems.
In collaboration with DAOstack, Luuk started CuraDAO, a community-driven, blockchain-powered social impact project that provides financial resources, support and knowledge to the community of Curaçao. He’s heavily involved with Kolectivo, PrimeDAO and the DAOist and is constantly looking for better ways to use blockchain to create regenerative systems that empower people and change the world. In this episode, Peth & Luuk discuss all things DAO, sustainable, regenerative and economic.
Some of the topics:
CuraDAI and token engineering
Regenerative economics
Tokenizing physical spaces
Stimulating and incentivizing environmental regeneration
Challenges associated with using crypto in Curaçao
Contributor compensation
Scaling technology
DAO-to-DAO collaboration
Peth & Luuk get in-depth on the origin story of PrimeDAO and its evolution as a collaborative project of DAOs sharing resources and working together to advance Open Finance. Luuk remarks that, “it’s the embodiment of this positive sum game mindset. We don’t try to build much from scratch but try to connect the pieces that otherwise wouldn’t be connected.”
The episode concludes emphasizing the value of working together to build the infrastructure that ultimately provides the opportunity to regenerate the Earth and create more space for us all to live freely and apply ourselves to our passions.
References
LuukDAO on Twitter
DAOstack
CuraDAO
CuraDAI
PrimeDAO
The DAOist
Kolectivo
Grassroots Economics
Commons Stack
Blockscience
Defi Safety

Aug 17, 2021 • 31min
Share What You're Makin' w/ Chair & Bacon #1 - Penguin on Never Touch Fiat Again
Welcome to the inaugural episode of a new MetaGame Series called “Share What You’re Making” where our hosts, Chair and Bacon interview web3 people with innovative ideas and projects. In this episode, the benevolent flightless bird Penguin makes an appearance introducing his latest endeavour: NTFA.io.
NFTA, “Never Touch Fiat Again” is an exciting project that bridges crypto markets and traditional financial markets by creating and selling NFTs that actually own gold. When you buy an NFT from NTFA, you can connect to a local vault management application and request that your physical gold be delivered to you securely. When the gold is claimed and shipped, the NFT actually evolves - encouraging NFT owners to get their hands on that shiny metal.
Some of the Topics
Getting NTFA NFTs and claiming your gold
Dystopian Future NFTs
Wearables and bonuses
The efficacy of other precious metals
Supporting more artists
Why the name “Never Touch Fiat Again”
The power of gold
Penguin excitedly introduces three epic NFTs created with support from artists LKH, Mlibty and Misanth - all transformable, complete with music and 3D graphics, and featuring dystopian future themes. He talks about the future of NTFA, dreaming of streamlining the process of onboarding new artists and getting their work backed by real world assets.
When asked where the name NTFA came from, Penguin confesses that he loves the name. “The idea is that banks have a phobia of crypto, but they’re never going to close your account for selling gold.” Penguin is a revolutionary and has been consistently burning fiat and moving towards all-crypto over the last several years. With NTFA, there’s a way to exit crypto to gold without any off ramps or contact with the USD. Check it out today: https://ntfa.io/
References:
NTFA
Opensea Collection
MetaGame Wiki
Penguin
Mlibty
LKH
Misanth
Chair
Bacon

Aug 9, 2021 • 40min
Humans of MetaGame #4 - Dan The Ram
Dan is a software developer, born and raised in Bangalore, India, who jumped into MetaGame in the summer of 2020. In his former life, he studied mathematics and computing, and went on to join Flipkart as a full stack developer. Two years of working on the security team brought some interesting and valuable learning experiences, and a bit of an ominous forecast of what his future might look like - sitting in traffic for hours to suffer through corporate arguments while working on someone else’s ideas.
After a backpacking trek throughout India and a psychedelic adventure, Dan decided to live radically and commit to blockchain! He learned Solidity, joined a Gitcoin hack-a-thon and started making a living with his work in the cryptospace before discovering MetaGame & Raid Guild and fully immersing. In this episode, get up close and personal with Dan to learn all about his journey down the MetaGame rabbit hole and his perspectives on governments, DAOs, and the future.
Some of the Topics
Life in corporate India (spoiler: same as corporate anywhere)
Perspectives of Indian parents on work in the blockchain
Gamification and building operating systems for societies
Stabilizing Seed price
London hard fork
DAppNode and decentralized hardware
Avoiding burnout
Dan talks about how yes, the current global system isn’t working anymore but “there’s no point in saying that unless you are coming up with a new system. MetaGame may be an experiment, but it is building something new and that’s very exciting”. They discuss exciting projects within MetaGame and look to the future - working with Raidguild to combine Skill Trees and the content of Playbooks.
Finally, Peth and Dan talk about the passion and enthusiasm of contributors in the space - talking about great Players like Luxumbra and Penguin, and the inspiring and welcoming way of people in MetaGame. The episode closes with a reminder to take good care of yourself to avoid burnout, and not hesitate to reach out for support.
References
Flipkart
Gitcoin
Trojan DAO
MetaGame
Raid Guild
London Hard Fork
Arbitrum
DAppNode
Ethereum 2.0
Luxumbra from MetaGame
Penguin from MetaGame
DAOhaus
Aragon

Jul 7, 2021 • 60min
MetaView #14 - Building Decentralized Systems & Impact Pirates with Sebnem of TokenEngineeringCommons
Sebnem is a researcher, entrepreneur, computer scientist, systems thinker and all-around superstar who has been deep in the token engineering space since 2016. Before jumping into the space, she specialized in peer-to-peer energy sharing systems, and was interested in decentralized business models that would make these systems viable. Token Engineering offered the potential to build the infrastructure and tooling to manage decentralized organizations and provide resiliency to inherently complex and dynamic systems.
In this episode, Peth and Sebnem talk about some of the nitty-gritty elements of token engineering - cadCAD, systems modelling, incentivization, governance structures, etc. - with an emphasis on using this technology to create a better world for us all. They talk about using the cryptospace for value creation that can be shared globally to support a wide range of initiatives and communities.
Some of the Topics
A Hitchhiker’s Guide to Token Engineering
Impact Pirates bridging ecovillages & tech tools
MetaGame and the focus on community well-being
Benefits of being an early adopter
Game-based learning and systems thinking
The conversation covers a wide range of interesting resources (below!), ultimately focusing on the paradigm shift that we are bringing about through the technological build on the blockchain. “We should use all these technologies and capabilities to have more human space, to connect more with nature, to live more.”
There, she goes into her latest project called Impact Pirates which is all about connecting, cross-pollinating & supporting physical self-sustainable eco-villages & communities in a digital world.
Sebnem’s advice to MetaGamers is to acknowledge the speed of movement in the crypto space, know that there are many “low hanging fruits to be had” in the form of opportunity for profit, search for balance and resonance. As we collaborate to build out this infrastructure, keep doing what you are doing to excite participants into an awareness of what is possible for the world.
Resources
Rocky Mountain Institute
German Blockchain Association
A Hitchhiker’s Guide to Token Engineering
Invisible Economies from DADA.art
The Blockchain Man by Taylor Pearson
Donella Meadows Systems Thinking
Grace Rachmany - The Human Side of DAOs
The Venus Project
The Zeitgeist Trilogy
Impact Pirates