The Allan McKay Podcast

Episode 77 - Interview with Action VFX NOTES   For complete show notes visit http://www.allanmckay.com/77/   ActionVFX (www.actionvfx.com) is a website that provides stock footage for visual effects, from smoke plumes to fire, from sparks to explosions. Before the company was launched in 2016, its CEO Rodolphe Pierre-Louis, along with Joe Camarata (Marketing Manager) and Luke Thompson (Operations Manager) conducted an extensive survey among visual effects artists, which determined the type of files the site would contain, and its content.   After only a year, ActionVFX’s footage has been used in television shows like Flash, Fear of the Walking Dead, Legends of Tomorrow, How to Get Away with Murder, Narcos, Series of Unfortunate Events; as well as in video games, music videos and the live Lady Gaga performance at this year’s Grammys.   In this Episode, Allan McKay interviews Rodolphe, Joe and Luke about the beginnings of ActionVFX, the challenges of starting a company, the strategies of fundraising and branding; as well as the experience of shooting actual pyrotechnics for their website. Hi, everyone!   This is Allan McKay. Welcome to Episode 77. I’m speaking with the guys from ActionVFX (https://www.actionvfx.com). Talking about shooting live action, pyrotechnics, lots of cool stuff.   So, let’s dive in! [-57:00] Hey! This is Allan. Just a quick thing to check out: www.vfxrates.com. This is a website that I created to solve a massive problem that we all have: What should we be charging? This is the giant mystery that we all have and most people feel very uncomfortable talking about is what we should charge as a freelance rate. And the worst part is when we go apply for a job, if we ask for too much, we risk alienating the employer and never getting that call back. Whereas we play it safe and ask too little, we not only get taken advantage of, but on top of that, we leave a lot of money on the table, which potentially over a span of a year, can add up to 10’s of thousands of dollars.   [-56:23] So this is chance for you to go to the website www.vfxrates.com. Put in bits of information, like your city, your experience, your discipline, software, little things that are important to figuring out what you should be charging as your base rate when you’re talking to an employer. This is based on a lot of research, but more importantly, it’s based on the braintrust of the industry experts from different fields that we’ve pulled together to collect a very accurate way to generate what you should be charging.   [-55:51] The best part is not just what you should be charging -- but what you could be charging by tweaking a few things: how you present yourself building a brand learning to negotiate better.   Also, there are factors like: building an irresistible reel learning to approach employers the correct way learning how to network.   I want to share all of this information for free! Go to www.vfxrates.com -- and find out what you should be charging for your hourly VFX rate. [-55:22] This is going to be a really fun Episode. I’m speaking with guys from ActionVFX.  They have the coolest job in the world: shooting a lot of pyrotechnics and stock footage for use in visual effects. There is a huge difference between simulating stuff and actually doing it in real life! They actually do that for a living.   [-54:46] So I’m speaking with Rodolphe Pierre-Louis (Founder and CEO), as well as Joe Camarata (Marketing Manager) and Luke Thompson (Operations Manager). This is a fun Episode, talking about how you wake up one morning and decide to go shoot explosions all day long. At the same time, we speak about a lot of cool behind-the-scenes stuff.   [-54:11] Some other stuff. Yesterday was my birthday. Next week, we’re going to be opening the doors to the FXTD Mentorship. This is the first time I’m mentioning it. It’s been a year and half since the last registration. I’m revamping a lot of the stuff, technology, software. (We have some cool software deals for the students!)   [-53:22] It’s going to be a little different in terms of registration. When you apply, it doesn’t mean you’re going to get in. We’ll be reviewing your applications. There are limited spots. I want to make sure that this Mentorship is right for everybody. Only a select amount of people will make it in. I’m excited to try this out! All the students who make it through the Mentorship, they’re the ones who have the biggest results.   [-52:11] If you do want to check that out, there will be a link in the show notes. Go to www.allanmckay.com/77. Otherwise, if you want to get on the inside circle and want to get alerted early, go to www.allanmckay.com/inside.   [-51:26] Also, the ActionVFX guys are doing a pretty big promotion this month: You’ll be able to get 50% off all their products. So go to www.allanmckay.com/77 to get more information. [-51:11] Allan: How would you describe ActionVFX?   Rodolphe: Basically, ActionVFX is the stock footage site for visual effects artists. The main vision that we had when we started [was that] we didn’t want to be a simple footage site (girls touching tall grass). But if you’re trying to blow something up, we’re your guys!   [-50:36] Allan: That’s awesome! I love that! I grew up in the 90s. Back then there was Pyromania and Artbeats. I always felt there was a lack of good content out there. Where are you based right now?   Rodolphe: We’re actually based in Johnson City, Tennessee.   Allan: I feel like these days you can be pretty much located anywhere. Are you originally from there?   Luke: I am. But these two guys aren’t.   Rodolphe: I’m originally from Haiti, actually. My family moved to Tennessee when I was 12. I went to college in Miami.   Joe: And I’m originally from Michigan. I moved here for school, then stuck around.   [-48:37] Allan: That’s awesome! Do you, guys, want to tell the story about how you got started? It sounds like you all knew each other. Were you sitting around and be like, “Let’s blow shit up for a living!”   Rodolphe: That doesn’t sound like a bad idea! The story got started in 2011. One summer during college, I started working with this new software called HitFilm. I thought I’d make tutorials for people. I started getting a following built up and realizing people really needed stock footage. If you had a more realistic element, you’d have a better result. I’ve always had an entrepreneurial spirit in me, so in October 2011, I released some gun effects. (If you compare it to what we do at ActionVFX now, it was pretty terrible. But it was enough to start with.)   [-46:42] As far as ActionVFX goes, the goal was always explosions. You have explosions -- you’re legit now. Easier said than done! The process actually started in May 2015. We started talking to some pyro-technicians (because we didn’t feel like killing ourselves on our first job). We were talking to some guys in Chicago. They did work for Chicago 5, Transformers 3. It was cool to get involved with them.   [-44:27] Allan: How was it, in terms of initially pulling the trigger, from the initial concept to making it official? Where there any hurdles?   Rodolphe: Oh yeah! Nothing in life is easy. After the Chicago shoot, looking at everything, you never get it right the first time. But that stuff was expensive (tens of thousands of dollars). After that, we thought about how to move forward. That’s when the two ideas that would change everything for us [happen]:   The first was if we’re making a product -- and people want it -- why wouldn’t they help us make it? And the second idea was to create a whole website with stock footage. It would have everything people would need and it would be of great quality.   [-42:22] Allan: That’s really great! So you, guys, decided to do a Kickstarter campaign? I was so excited to back you. What was your experience like doing a crowdfunding?   Rodolphe: First, thank you for backing our project! The funny thing about Kickstarter was the second I had that idea my mind started working overtime to convince myself of how bad of an idea that was. It was screaming: “No! That’s too much work!”   Luke: I was extremely intimidated by it. Being a videographer, I was transitioning over into the VFX industry. I wondered if people would laugh us out of the room.   Rodolphe: I feel like if you’re doing a movie on Kickstarter, you have some reference. Creating a campaign for stock footage was so new! Either we would be the guys people would follow. Or, we’d be the lesson on what not to do. It was super intimidating.   [-39:40] Allan: Do you think having that pressure of social accountability made you see it through? It can be pretty powerful.   Luke: Especially after the Kickstarter was finished, we raised just a bit shy of 60 grand. There were people waiting for us to deliver an awesome product. It pushed us that much harder and that much further.   [-38:35] Allan: How was the reception of the whole thing?   Rodolphe: It was really good! Even right now, most of the feedback we get is really positive. The VFX community has been very supportive from the very beginning. We tried to survey as many compositors and filmmakers. That works a ton: Because instead of assuming how it’s going to go down, why not talk to the people who would actually be using [the footage]: What to shoot, what not to shoot, how to shoot it. Without that feedback, this wouldn’t have been positive.   [-37:09] Allan: It’s so much smarter to actually talk to the people who will be using your product rather than assuming it. That’s what makes a great product! When you made the initial Kickstarter video, what was your experience like building that?   Rodolphe: I’ve always really liked the idea of selling things and try to reverse engineer a product. The first thing for that video was to pick out [the right] words because every word is a weapon. Really scripting everything out: that the goals were clear, the good length (30 seconds). At the end of the day, we had to just go through it.   Luke: And something else that helped us too: At this point, we had our Chicago shoot. We had a lot of behind-the-scenes footage. That was the main driving factor for our campaign being so successful.   [-33:51] Allan: I completely agree! Having that level of quality changed everything. Talk about that initial shoot, with pyro-technicians in Chicago. What was it like?   Luke: Going into it made me feel more comfortable about the whole thing. It was definitely a huge learning experience for myself: Just figuring out how we work together.   Rodolphe: You never know what you don’t know -- until you know it. The biggest thing was that I learned from that shoot was: You can never plan enough! We thought we were so ready. We officially met the pyro-technicians that same day, and that was just not enough. There were misunderstandings and mistakes.   Allan: Can you give an example?   Luke: I guess scheduling was the biggest hurdle in Chicago. There was some wild miscommunication, so we had to extend all of our shooting days.   Rodolphe: The pyro-technicians were supposed to take care of our night shoots. But we had to stop early, maybe because of the noise. Instead of 8 hours of shooting, we ended up having just 4; then ended up cramming the next night. Even the look of the effect, we just assumed they would know [what we wanted]. When we got there, we had to re-explain what we really wanted. It wasn’t their fault. It was a learning experience.   [-28:19] Allan: And since there, you’ve been shooting purely in Chicago or Tennessee?   Rodolphe: Since then, we primarily shoot in Tennessee.   Allan: And what’s your experience like now? Are the laws different?   Luke: Definitely! There is a hundred more permits in Chicago! In Tennessee it’s pretty much like: “Hey, just don’t kill anybody!”   [-27:36] Allan: That’s really cool! What about now: Is there a lot of planning involved? What’s the process like? Is there a production sheet?   Luke: Even in Chicago, we were passing out these binders of production shots. [In Tennessee], it’s not that we plan any less, we just know what to plan more.   Rodolphe: Just going out and shooting without planning, that’s when you end up shooting something wrong. Before we do the FX side, [you have to shoot] it right: the right framing, the right angle, the right lense, the different cameras and backdrops. It’s just spending days before shooting to make sure every little detail is right, before we hit record.   [-25:18] Allan: Are there any memorable stories of some of your favorite shoots?   Luke: I think the smoothest was our gun effects. We actually shot in this giant field behind my parents’ house.   Rodolphe: It’s crazy how accessible it is! Getting permits for guns! That’s Tennessee for you!   Luke: We had some people bringing specific guns. I was providing some food for them, just as a courtesy. (We just started live streaming too!) I heated up a grill by this tent. Everyone was trying to get my attention, and I look over -- and our grill is on fire! The whole thing is engulfed in flames and a huge bush behind it, too! I was still on the live stream and I thought, “This is it!”   Rodolphe: And memorable on the bad side, after the Kickstarter, we did our main shoot. It was a week straight, below zero weather, 15-hour days. After we got through that week, I knew we would “win”. If we can get through that, we can get through anything. Things are sometimes a lot harder than you expect. Are you going to keep going and persevere?   [-21:45] Allan: What platforms do you typically live stream to?   Luke: That’s when Facebook Live was available through an app.   Allan: I just started screwing around with it. I’m still figuring it all out. It’s pretty amazing how much reach it has! What cameras do you usually shoot on? I’m guessing like Sony 7, just because you’re doing night shoots?   Rodolphe: It kind of varies. The first big shoot we did, we used the Red Epic Dragon which was really good. Then we also used a Sony FX7. We mostly use that when we need multiple cameras [at the same time], like for a structure fire collection. It was better to shoot different angles. We do try to go to Red most of the time. Some users do prefer to have more control over their footage.   [-18:49] Allan: You actually provide raw files?   Rodolphe: Yes.   Allan: That’s sweet! I didn’t know that! You should check out the new Helium that just came out. It’s got a really amazing light. But I shoot everything on Red. How many people do you typically bring to a shoot?   Rodolphe: It’s usually, I would say, there are two main teams. Anywhere from 7 to 10 people at a time, especially for the bigger shoots. For sparks and embers, we used maybe 4 people.   Allan: That’s cool! In terms of hardware -- I’m always going to nerd out about this stuff -- is there any specific gear you rely on?   Luke: I think it really depends on the shoot.   Rodolphe: I’m trying to think. Obviously, we love our computers here. We have custom-built computers here, which is awesome, to get all the rendering done!   Luke: We usually drag one of these to set, to look at the footage.   Allan: What about software?   Rodolphe: Most of the processing happens in After Effects. That’s where we do our main keying, native resolution. After Effects plays a huge part in that: dumping it all in there -- and gold comes out.   [-15:33] Allan: In terms of customers, what are some of the biggest projects you’ve seen in which your products were used?   Luke: We’ve had a lot of stuff in video games cinematics, music videos, features and stuff. Flash, Fear of the Walking Dead. What else did we do?   Joe: Things like Legends of Tomorrow, How to Get Away with Murder, Narcos, Series of Unfortunate Events. This past Grammys, they used some of our fire elements on stage during the Lady Gaga performance.   Rodolphe: It’s always such a cool feeling to see our stuff being used. The goal from the beginning was to create a product that was good enough. The other day, I was watching Blindspot, I remembered the shoot.   [-13:59] Allan: Have you ever experienced when someone used your stuff that you never in a million years imagined being used? Any weird or creative ways in which your elements were being used?   Rodolphe: There have been a few. Recently, we released this blood mist collection and we decided to create a little contest. It’s a free collection on our website. Some of those were pretty creative. Someone created some nice motion graphics with a blood mist.   Allan: Do you get a lot of feedback from customers for future stuff?   Luke: I talk to 5-10 people a day, [telling us] what they would like to see. That’s something that we love because we try to better ourselves and our product!   [-12:20] Allan: Are there any elements that you have coming up, that you can talk about?   Rodolphe: Luckily for you, Allan, we set aside some things we can talk about here. This is our Allan McKay Exclusive! Currently we are working on creating some mid-air explosions (aerial explosions), more blood effects. We had some cool meetings with VFX Legion. They suggested some different blood elements they’d like to see. [Also:] Flamethrowers!   Luke: Recently, they’ve become more accessible. We are talking to a few companies that make them available for public use (like de-icing your sidewalk). I am extremely excited about that. You’re welcome to come down [to Tennessee], to play with our flamethrowers.   [-10:17] Allan: I’d love to come down! There is a guy who works at Blizzard. He was going through [U.S.] Customs and told them, “I blow stuff up for a living!” That didn’t go down too well. Mental note! You mentioned some challenges before...   Rodolphe: We used to do them more regularly. The feedback was really good. We had a lot of submissions. People really like getting involved. We’re at the right size, as a company, and we can be down to earth.   [-08:03] Allan: I feel like there are no good water elements, all those things you could use for textures. Zombies are the flavor of the year. At some point, do you, guys, plan to cut a reel to show off how your stuff has been applied?   Rodolphe: Right now, ActionVFX is still less than a year old. We’re waiting to get enough clips from our customers. Depending on the contract, people have been pretty nice about sharing [their footage].   [-06:44] Allan: You also do a lot of training and tutorial on how to use your footage. I thought that was really cool!   Rodolphe: People really respond to that. We have been working on more. They’ll be coming out pretty soon.   Luke: With so many different methods in our industry, just having those on hand makes it more on hand.   [-05:29] Allan: Last thing: How did you, guys, come up with the name?   Rodolphe: Funny story! It was going to be either ActionVFX or Action Legacy. Those were the titles in the mix. For some reason, www.liveactionvfx.com was taken. We thought that was a weird name to be taken.   Allan: I even didn’t connect the dots until about 30 minutes ago. I thought, that would be a cool name for you guys. Damn, I’m an asshole!   Rodolphe: How we came up with the name was, we ended up with ActionVFX to give people an idea what we were about. We also wanted a name we could build a brand around. It’s kind of catchy. It was a good balance between being unique and easy to understand.   [-03:15] Allan: I find it interesting that people will build their name around which domain they can get. Do you want to mention your website?   Rodolphe: Sure. Definitely check us out at: www.actionvfx.com. We’ve got a tons of stuff in the library.   Luke: At there is a ton of free stuff to download right now.   Joe: Be sure to hop in right now because we have a 50% sale going on for the month of May. You don’t want to miss out on that!   Allan: This pretty much it!   Rodolphe: Thanks for having us on the show! I’m going to leave it there. If you found it useful, please share this link around. If you want to leave an honest review, feel free to log into iTunes.   Thanks again to all the guys at ActionVFX. Go to www.allanmckay.com/77 to see show notes with links to their promos; or to get on my insider list.   Rock on! QUOTES   “Just going out and shooting without planning, that’s when you end up shooting something wrong,” says Rodolphe Pierre-Louis, the Founder and CEO of ActionVFX (www.actionvfx.com). “You have to shoot it right: the right framing, the right angle, the right lenses, the different cameras and backdrops. It’s just spending days before shooting to make sure every little detail is right, before we hit record.” To hear more about Rodolphe’s experience on set, as well as with launching ActionVFX, listen to this Podcast with Allan McKay: www.allanmckay.com/77.   When it comes to launching a new company, fundraising, branding or shooting on location, the Founder of ActionVFX Rodolphe Pierre-Louis knows a thing or two: “Things are sometimes a lot harder than you expect. Are you going to keep going and persevere?” For more awesome insight, tune into Allan McKay’s Podcast with guys from ActionVFX! (www.allanmckay.com/77).  

Andrew L. Schmidt is a Director of Trollhunter (DreamWorks Animation). With a 20-year experience in the industry, he has a long list of credits to his name: The Iron Giant, Monsters, Inc; Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, Ratatouille and many more. Andrew has worked at studios like Amblimation, DreamWorks, Warner Brothers and Pixar. Guillermo del Toro’s Trollhunters is his first directing credit.   For complete show notes visit http://www.allanmckay.com/76/   Andrew L. Schmidt on IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2112570/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 Trollhunters on IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1734135/ Andrew’s talk at IAMAG Master Class: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/iamagmasterclasses17/ Andrew Schmidt quoted in the New Yorker’s article The Fun House: Life at Pixar: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/05/16/the-fun-factory   Episode 76 - Interview with Andrew L. Schmidt NOTES     [-1:21:11] Hey! This is Allan. Just a quick thing to check out: www.vfxrates.com. This is a website that I created to solve a massive problem that we all have: What should we be charging? This is the giant mystery that we all have and most people feel very uncomfortable talking about is what we should charge as a freelance rate. And the worst part is when we go apply for a job and if we ask for too much, we risk alienating the employer and never getting that call back. Whereas we play it safe and ask too little, we not only get taken advantage of, but on top of that, we leave a lot of money on the table, which potentially over a span of a few years, can add up to 10’s of thousands of dollars.   [-1:20:32] So this is chance for you to go to the website www.vfxrates.com. Put in bits of information, like your city, your experience, your discipline, software, little things that are important, to figuring out what you should be charging as your base rate when you’re talking to an employer. This is based on a lot of experience, but more importantly, it’s based on the braintrust of the industry experts from different fields that we’ve pulled together to collect a very accurate way to generate what you should be charging.   [-1:20:00] The best part is not just what you should be charging -- but what you could be charging by tweaking a few things: how you present yourself, building a brand, learning to negotiate better. Also, there are factors like building an irresistible reel, learning to approach employers the correct way; learning how to network. I want to share all of this information for free! Go to www.vfxrates.com -- and find out what you should be charging for your hourly VFX rate.   [-1:19:31] Alright, welcome to a brand new Episode. It is with Andrew Schmidt who is a good buddy of mine. I’ve known him for three years. We met at the very first IAMAG Master Class in Paris. Andrew is a super great guy. I was really excited to do this because Andrew has a vast amount of experience within the industry at DreamWorks, [also at] Pixar for quite some years. Before that he worked on projects like one of my favorite movies The Iron Giant, Prince of Egypt. What I’ve loved is that each year that I’ve attended the IAMAG Master Class, Andrew’s talks have been some of my favorite because they have so much more substance. Usually, they take you on a bit of a journey through his career, his insights, but more importantly, a lot of the life lessons he’s learned on his journey. I thought it would be really great to talk to him because not only is he able to talk about his humble beginnings and how he got started but also about some of the transitions he’s experienced recently.   [-1:18:03] In case I haven’t mentioned it yet, he is one of the directors of Guillermo del Toro’s Trollhunters for DreamWorks Animation. He’s also worked on some of the amazing classics that we all love like The Incredibles, Finding Nemo; Monsters, Inc.,; Up and on, and on, and on. We also talked about Family Guy because he contributed to its Season 1. We talk about a lot of stuff. I knew this would be a killer!   [-1:17:29] One thing that I will mention is that the audio quality on this Episode isn’t the greatest, and I apologize for that. However, what I recommend to you is to not focus of the level of quality of the audio -- but focus on the level of quality of the content! I always take pride in having great quality to my Episodes.   [-1:16:53] If you enjoy this talk, I believe you can get Andrew’s IAMAG Master Class talk. I’ll leave a link if you want to access that. I think it’s $10. And of course, in the show notes, you can find more information about him: www.allanmckay.com/76.   [-1:16:31] Allan: Do you want to give a bit of a background, how you found your passion for animation?   Andrew: Yeah. I am not one of those people who watched cartoons thinking that’s what I want to do. I never studied it in school. My interest was in film and adventures: Frankenstein, Dracula. I wanted to get into visual effects. And that lead to a small college in Michigan. I didn’t do well academically in the beginning. And that lead to taking some art classes. That was in my late teens, early 20s. They had a fine arts program there, so I studied fine arts. I started taking film classes, matte painting and things like that. Touched on some animation. That was just the beginning.   I had a dear friend who had gone abroad. She was traveling in Scotland and came across a 2D studio which was starting called Amblimation, which was a Steven Spielberg studio. So I finished college with a visual arts degree. I did construction for a year. Then Jamie Bolio called saying, “Hey, I’m in London. I’m working at a studio here and I’m looking for people.” So I sent in my live drawing portfolio. So I packed two suitcases and moved to London and started working at A Amblimation.   [-1:13:29] That studio folded into DreamWorks. A bunch of people moved to LA and formed DreamWorks. That’s how I ended up in Los Angeles, back in ’96.   [-1:13:14] Allan: I’ve been doing a little of bit of 3D. I think I started doing my first big project in ’96. Such a long time ago! I love that. You were okay at Amblimation. That’s where a lot of the animators came from [at DreamWorks]. I’m just kind of curious, what’s the hierarchy like when it comes to in-betweeners and key framers? Back then, if you were more of an in-betweener, how many key framers were typically in the studio? Because typically, these days, a lot of them get outsourced.   Andrew: Yeah. There was typically a team for a character and a supervisor. So there was a supervising animator and several other animators. They handled the bulk of the work. I don’t know, maybe [there were] 5-6 in-betweeners.   [-1:11:31] Allan: Initially, for you to supply your live drawing portfolio, was it pretty easy to get your foot in the door that way? Or was it more luck? Let’s say for anyone else who was applying, what were the key things that got you in? Obviously, talent would be one of them.   Andrew: I think it’s a little bit of everything. It’s not going to be one thing. My live drawing portfolio was pretty strong. Also, this was at the time there some films [were doing really well]. So they were really looking for people from all over. So there was the luck of that. Then there was me, on top of being prepared, being persistent. And then there was knowing someone in the studio. He could say, “I know this guy. He’s pretty good.” So there were few different things.   [-1:10:05] Allan: And I think that you had a plan. Half the time, it comes down to that. Especially in animation! Especially back when things were booming. Getting some mainstream feature animation, with key players like Disney producing all the content. You never did any short films early on in your career, did you?   Andrew: No. I admire people who have done that. But I didn’t. I don’t know why. I’ve been in the industry and working non-stop soon after I got in.   [-1:09:16] Allan: That’s a good problem to have! What is your opinion: Do you think it’s a good idea for those starting a career to look into doing short films, as a way to build [it]? So not necessarily for the sake of passion but more because this is something that would help establish them?   Andrew: In my personal opinion, I think so, yes. I don’t know what Pixar’s hiring practices are now. I can talk about what they used to be. That’s what impresses me now: You have to show them some professional work or student work that’s quite strong. The level of dedication that it takes to do that -- it’s really impressive.   [-1:08:08] Allan: I think you’re right. From the hiring standpoint, it shows that they’re able to go through an entire production, wear many hats, and figure out what their strengths are. I definitely gives complete transparency about who they are and what they can do.   Andrew: You can even tell if they’re a strong storyteller.   [-1:07:23] Allan: Cool! This is such an open-ended question: What do you think the industry is like these days, compared to back then? What are some of the big difference you found, how much digital animation has changed from ’95 (which is Toy Story and that was a big establishment). Obviously, it’s boomed so much and changed so much over the years. How do you think it compares to now?   Andrew: Some of the talent now is incredible! Just at a student reel level, it’s amazing how [talented] some people are! But that’s a good question. I was a junior artist back then.   [-1:06:30] Allan: I’ll say this, you’re right. You go to CG Talk or Art Station a few years ago and the stuff that people are putting out there as a student reel is depressing for me. It’s just like, “Holy crap!” When we were starting out, we would have, like, POV-Ray and these really crappy, difficult to use programs. These days, you can open the package and get the feel for it pretty quickly. Back then, you’d have to render something just to see what it would look like.   Animation, in my opinion, is such an oversaturated industry. And because of that, when you’re applying for work, you’re going to have to find some ways to stand out. Otherwise, you’re going to get lost in the noise of so many talented people. Earlier on, it was quite difficult to find where there was work. Obviously, now there is quite a lot of work. So that’s the advantage.   Andrew: Yeah. I think you make a really good point. There are some drastic changes. Nowadays, just a demo could look fantastic.   [-1:04:58] Allan: Touching on that subject, are there any major misconceptions that people have in their head. Like using the software packages that are the best and if you are not using those, you’re not going to do as well. Or, you have to go to school to get a job in the industry. Whatever kind of BS that people typically think is the way, and it’s completely opposite.   Andrew: It’s the person behind the camera who’s getting the shot. Obviously, they use some tools to get the shot.   [-1:04:08] Allan: There is a pretty famous story about Stephen King doing a Q&A after a presentation. Someone raised their hand and asked, “What pen do you write with?” Do you have any advice for people starting out? Ways to make themselves stand out?   Andrew: I think there is something to be said -- one of the things that I’ve discovered while at Pixar -- is finding your strength and building your reel with that strength: to a certain type of acting, or action shots, things like that. Back at Pixar, people had the breadth of knowledge and experience I haven’t had. You just need to have a talent. You need to be good at something. You need to keep finding your weaknesses and try to strengthen [in those areas].   I didn’t understand a lot about storytelling, so I took a course: about writing and building a scene. My art background was in fine arts. Then I started doing animation which is illustration. I didn’t know anything about illustration, so I took some courses to fill in those gaps. I think that’s something that you can do. You don’t need to be a jack of all trades. But if you’re trying to build a career, you’re going to need a lot of bricks.   [-1:01:31] Allan: I think that’s a very valuable advice. Lately, it’s been coming up a lot. I’m going to segue to a Tony Robbins’ conversation I heard the other day about growth and reciprocity; self growing and giving back. A lot of people learn a lot and they switch off: I’ve got my bag of tricks. And that’s where they stay. The ones who actually succeed, go through this ping-pong effect of growing then giving back [through] teaching ([which] is a form of processing information). Then growing again. If you keep looking for the next level, you stay hungry.   Andrew: I was thinking about the Michael Caine book. He talked about it. What we do as artists, we’re in a community, collecting things from other artists. But it’s a community. A community is not about taking things from other people. There is certain amount of sharing you need to do as well.   [-59:40] Allan: Absolutely! Looking at surrounding areas, I came up with a slightly tacky term: Your Trifecta. In other words, the three areas that compliment what you do the closest. If you do animation, you might want to look into comedy writing, acting, other areas. That’s exactly it. With effects, we say it’s scripting, lighting and compositing.   Andrew: Maybe life drawing to understand motion.   Allan: I even feel that with your career, it’s better to be at the bottom of the barrel. You have buddies who pump you up and tell you how great you are. I’d rather people around people who push me up.   Andrew: That’s what it’s about. There is a certain glass ceiling. The people are great, the projects are great. I just felt like I need to be out there. You’re not going to grow if you don’t push against your comfort zone. Sometimes, you just need to take a beating, figure out what you did wrong and not repeat the mistakes. You are not going to grow unless you get out there.   [-56:25] Allan: I was watching one of Anthony Buordain’s shows. He was back in San Francisco because he was finishing his Jiu-Jitsu training. Or it was BJJ. He decided to do a few episodes in that area. For you, you just decided you wanted to try boxing? How did that come about to be? I think it’s really important for you to have an inkling for something different.   Andrew: I’ve done martial arts throughout my life. I was a big Bruce Lee fan. A lot of that was from sitting at the computer a lot of the time. It was about this complacency in life and my career. I didn’t want to [hit fifty] and be out of shape. I’m not quite sure what drew me to boxing. I guess I’ve always been interested in it, but didn’t have the balls to go out and do it. I found a club that wasn’t hardcore. I didn’t want to take too many blows to my head. But part of that was about fear and facing that fear. And how I feel after I come out facing something I don’t enjoy to do. And after a while, the tension of fear goes away and you begin to enjoy yourself. You push yourself in ways you didn’t expect.   [-53:31] Allan: Were there any differences you’ve noticed like clarity of thinking or feeling more pushed at work, more energy?   Andrew: Well, I mean, I definitely got in shape. But there is also this mentality of this energy you get. You feel like you’ve accomplished something. Maybe it’s an ego thing. Things that bothered me, that worried me, why not just do it. It shuts down the voice in my head: “You can’t do that. You’ll never be good at that.” It’s easy to listen to that voice. Nothing bad is going to happen. It’s not that “nothing bad is going to happen”. Nothing is going to happen! That’s not a way to live a life.   [-52:00] Allan: I guess it’s a psychological wall that artists and entrepreneurs must face. You’re the one taking risks. Psychologically, you’re trained to stay with what’s safe. Anytime a great opportunity comes up, you might be excited but bit by bit you start convincing yourself to stay safe. Everyone I consider successful, every time I ask if there was a place of risk, when everything in your life starts changing -- everyone gets a smile on their face because they can relate to that. For you, were there any massive breaks, where you struggled a bit but then grew into a new place.   Andrew: Pixar definitely! It was heaven. It’s a great place to learn and explore and it’s very safe. I learned so much there. And I have friends there and I miss them! But then I was getting hungry. I think complacency is death to an artist. I was missing feeling challenged. I felt like a had a certain level of skills and I really wanted to put them to work. I was lucky that I didn’t have kids, so I wasn’t restricted financially. Someone gave me a really great advice: You need to find a pull, something that’s going to get you to the other side, not just a push.   That’s where luck stepped in. Rodrigo Blaas who’s been at Pixar for quite a while. He did a short film called Alma about a little girl and a doll short. Because of that film, Rodrigo got contacted by [Guillermo] del Toro. [Then] he asked me to go work with him. We jumped at the opportunity. He left Pixar to go to DreamWorks. That was my pull: It was my chance to work on something edgy, different stuff than what Pixar does. And I had a chance to direct! They were putting faith in me. I’ve directed some commercials. There was a chance I could’ve failed, but I couldn’t pass it up. I left a very high paying job with bonuses. I took a pretty hefty pay cut, just to move in Los Angeles. But I found the work much more fulfilling, much more challenging.   [-45:58] Allan: What was going through your mind at that time? I imagine it was pretty emotional.   Andrew: Something like, “WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!” Something like that.   Allan: Yeah. There is no undo button for decisions like that. Was there a moment you decided it was the right move?   Andrew: That was part of the thing that made make the move: I never had any doubt! I had some apprehension, I had some doubt. There was some nervousness about it. It was going to be a great project.   [-45:13] Allan: We’ll talk about DreamWorks in a moment. But I’d love to talk about some of the previous projects you’ve done. Prior to Pixar, you worked on Iron Giant. That was a classic and an important film.   Andrew: I finished Prince of Egypt and I was preparing to work on The Road to El Dorado. There was some, I don’t know, some resistance. I thought I had a decent reel. But a friend who was working on Iron Giant called me up, “Hey, man. You want to do this film?” I got a chance to become an animator. That was another chance for me to work on something that really pushed me. I was able to get some good scenes to animate and make some good connections.   [-42:25] Allan: I have to say, I had no idea you worked on Family Guy. What was that experience like?   Andrew: It was bizarre and I enjoyed it too! The first season was interesting. At the time, the animation was getting sent to Korea to get animated. I’m guessing it’s easier at this time. It was fun.   [-41:28] Allan: Going on to Pixar, it’s a pretty monumental part of anyone’s work history. What was it like when you initially approached them? Because they’ve just finished Toy Story. Monsters, Inc was their next project, right?   Andrew: It’s so long ago, I’m trying to place it. I think Monsters, Inc was their third film, that’s when I came on. Also because I worked with Brad, he knew my work. I had my third rejection letter then I got a call from Brett Varon I sent some of my stuff. One thing I’ve learned sometimes “no” from a studio doesn’t mean “no”. The door is not open right now, but keep trying. I knocked again and this time the door opened. I didn’t have any CG experience. [In] Prince of Egypt, I has some. I went through a 10-week training program. It took me about three years to feel good about CG.   [-38:44] Allan: Yeah, what was it like for you to go from not having any CG experience at all to going into a whole new world? Once you learn one or two packages, you know all of them. For you, how intimidating was it?   Andrew: It was confidence shaking. I mean, I really felt I was going to be fired. Pixar has a different mentality than any different studio. It just shakes your skill when you feel like your skills have reached a certain level but then there is a whole new skill. “I know I can do better than this! How do I do that?” But everyone else is struggling, also going through the same thing.   [-37:04] Allan: And you said it took you three years to feel like you got it?   Andrew: Yeah.   Allan: During that time, was there a lot of friction?   Andrew: I had many, many days of frustration.   [-36:23] Allan: I think that’s such a critical thing when you get those rejection letters, no doesn’t mean you aren’t good enough. It means keep trying. For me, it means that I just need to keep getting better. Even when I had that persistence, there were times I was going to give up. If anything, it’s an endurance test for this industry. Because if you’re going to quit --  you’re just not right for this industry. This is a career, it’s not a job.   Andrew: You’re looking to build and grow and that takes persistence. The first thing that hits you is: “I’m not good enough. They don’t want me.” It brings up all that doubt. Sometimes it helps if the studio gives you some advice. Pixar used to do that.   [-34:08] Allan: That’s a good point. Were there any mentors that you’ve had around you? I feel that you can still get so much from those relationships. Are there people you look to for inspiration.   Andrew: Oh, yeah! Kristof Serrand, early on. Trying animation, I remember I’d bring some work and he’d just flip through it and throw it into the trashcan. It was painful. He was just being honest: You can do better. He didn’t just dismiss me. He gave me pointers.   [-32:30] Allan: One thing you mentioned is working abroad. You’re so well traveled. I think it’s a critical thing. It recalibrates you. What’s your opinion? How impactful is it on artists to travel and work in other cultures / countries?   Andrew: I think it’s vital. It’s vital for human beings to learn about cultures and stories. When I went to Amblimation, it was multi-cultured. People of different nationalities and it was an eye opening experience. You learn how different everybody is, but how everyone is pretty much the same. We have the same motivations and desires. We realize we can relate to each other. We can learn to communicate better. Communication is what we do. We communicate an idea to put it on the screen.   [-29:12] Allan: I think working in countries where your native language isn’t spoken, you learn how to communicate. You’ve got to start how you can say something and how it can be misunderstood. It alienates you and adapt. You grow as a human being.   Andrew:  You’re enriching yourself.   [-27:53] Allan: We’ve both read Creativity, Inc. It was a fascinating book to read. That did get me excited to learn more about the culture of Pixar. I remember Digital Domain let of a thousand people after Titanic was done in 1996. It reinforces the mentality that this is a service-based industry. You are supplying a service. Pixar is one the most profitable companies on the planet and they’re making their own content. ILM was a service providing industry. With you, guys, having that more family oriented mindset is really great. And that also means that every time the project is over, you don’t lose what you’ve learned when the new team gets built. It’s frustrating because you have to learn the same mistakes over and over and over.   Andrew: Yeah, when you work with people for a long time, you learn their strengths, you learn their weaknesses, where they need to grow, where they see you can grow. There is something about it that’s more efficient. I think it makes for better storytelling to keep people longer.   [-25:39] Allan: What do you think were some of the things you took from one of the leading animation studios in the world? Were there a lot of things that carved out who you are? I love the story of the braintrust. You’ve got a director but you also have a support team that isn’t going to tread on your toes; but they’re there to help your vision be as strong as you can be. What was some of the stuff you took after that experience?   Andrew: Ah, well, a lot of memories, of course, and friendships. Stayed in touch with a lot of people. Trollhunters is getting a lot of attention for its visual quality because it’s a tv show. A lot of that comes from Rodrigo and myself. He’s the showrunner and has done a lot of the shots. He wants to get good quality up there, not sell ourselves short. I can’t stand that “It’s good enough” mentality. I learned about getting good people around you, good team, and getting out of their way and allowing them to do what they do best. And giving them that support. You get a lot of friction jobs where people try to stop you from doing your best. Sometimes, the nature of production interferes with people getting stuff done. Pixar was about removing those roadblocks, so that creative people could do what they really do best.   Allan: Take pride in their work.   Andrew: Take pride in their work, and go the extra mile to get the ownership of what they are doing.   [-22:36] Allan: That’s always been my philosophy. Once the project is done, you can’t change it. Even for the crappiest tv commercials I’ve done, I’ll see stuff and be like, “Oh! They used the wrong element in comp!” Or they decided that would do. And I’ve gone through a phase too. It’s only in the last six years that I’ve gotten the passion back. Once it’s up there, you can never go back. It’s part of history. Especially, when it’s a project that’s going to affect people.   Andrew: It’s better when people care about what they’re doing. When they care, they put extra effort into it. I would get myself to care about it.   [-20:40] Allan: With Trollhunters, you’ve been tied to that project for a while. I like the fact that whenever we’ve hung out, things have changed drastically every time. Three years ago, you were at Pixar but thinking about other options. The next time, you were working at DreamWorks. For you now, having spent two years on the project, how do you feel now? What are some of the challenges you’re going through?   Andrew: It’s been great! I’ve learned so much! Yeah, constantly learning. I find that I am challenged. I get to use a lot of the skills that I’ve developed in writing, acting, animation, storytelling. I’ve never been admittedly a great decision maker. As a director, you’ve got no choice. You have to make decisions and there is a hundred of them. You have to get rid of the fear that you would be making a wrong choice, because chances are, you will. You have to learn to live with it, learn from it, correct it or let it go. It’s been a great learning process for me. I don’t work directly with Guillermo, he comes through and gives me some notes occasionally. I learn from my friend Rodrigo about camera, staging, composition. I view it as a chance to go to a directing school.   [-17:48] Allan: Why go to a directing school, if you can learn on the job? That’s great. With your team, what is it like having such a fresh new team of people to work on something as ambitious as this? Again, it’s Netflix.   Andrew: It’s been a great experience. There is a certain excitement about the project. So people are pushing themselves to come up with great ideas. I like to keep those channels open. I work really closely with my editor Graham Fisher. From the beginning, I didn’t think I knew what the process would be like. I’ve established the grammar for it from DreamWorks. It’s not a dictatorship. It’s a team effort. And I think it makes the project more fun because everyone is in on it. It’s a small team, really. We have a small director team. But it’s not a huge crew, so everyone is involved in everything.   [-15:29] Allan: Yeah, I like that. When you have small teams, nothing gets lost in conversation. You’re in constant communication.   Andrew: And you can chat with someone quickly.   Allan: What are some of the challenges on a project like this?   Andrew: For me, it was switching from features, with big budgets, to tv which has much smaller budgets. And much more demanding schedule. And not just for one episode. When you finish one episode, there is another one after that. So you can’t get bogged down. It will throw the whole thing off. You’re juggling six or seven episodes at a time: reviewing the script, script analysis, getting ready to shoot it, reviewing animation. You’re jam-packed back to back and trying to make decisions that are smart but also economical.   [-13:39] Allan: I see Ron Perlman is doing a voice for one of the characters. That doesn’t surprise me at all. How well has it been received so far? The first season has been out for while.   Andrew: It’s been received well. Netflix doesn’t have numbers. They just have a general idea. Twitter has been exploding. The IMDb reviews have been great.   [-12:49] Allan: Who are all the directors besides yourself?   Andrew: Elaine Bogan, Rodrigo Blaas, Johane Matte.   Allan: In general what’s coming for you? Obviously, you’re going to be speaking in Paris pretty soon. What other stuff do you have coming up, other than getting into street fights and starting your own Fightclub.   Andrew: Don’t talk about Fightclub. That’s rule number one. We are buried in season two for Trollhunters. Definitely looking forward to Paris!   [-12:02] Allan: What’s your talk going to be on? Your first talk was on deconstructing a lot of great performances. I found that to be really original. The last talk was relaxed. But I loved that you could talk about your experience at Brick Lane, Pixar, then throw in some Bruce Lee in there as well. Everything you had to say was so relevant.   Andrew: This year will be on experience as a first-time director. Just that transition from my comfort zone to being very uncomfortable, learning lessons the hard way. A lot of the stuff I’ve talked about here.   [-10:17] Allan: I’m really looking forward to catching up. I think your talk is going to be amazing.   Andrew: I hope I can see [your talk]. We have to leave Sunday. That’s the other problem with working on television: getting time off.   [-8:41] Allan: I’m excited just because there are so many awesome people coming this year. Neil Blevins will be there. He’s bringing Kat [Evans]. I’ve been wanting to have her on the Podcast. She’s such a ballbuster. She’s in a male dominated industry but doesn’t take crap. And she’s really opinionated, so I think she’d have so much to say. Ryan Church, Dan Roarty, Mike Blum, Ash Thorp. Just in general, this time is going to be great! I’m psyched. I’m hoping to still be in LA, at least once a month. I want to drop by DreamWorks, when I do I’ll let you know I’m in the building.   Andrew: Please do.   Allan: I’ll see you in a few weeks. The audio is a bit iffy, but I’ll try to make it work. Do you have a personal website?   Andrew: I do not. It’s another thing I’ve got to do a bit: Do a bit of self-promotion.   [-5:11] Allan: I’m curious, is that something you want to do, establish your presence as a director?   Andrew: I think so.   Allan: It’s a critical part. I’d be happy to help any way that I can.   That is it. Again, I apologize for the audio quality but I hope you were still able to pull some diamonds in the rough from this Episode. I want to thank Andrew again. I personally found this talk to be really inspiring.   If you want information on Andrew’s links or the talk he gave at IAMAG Master Class, go to www.allanmckay.com/76.   I’ll have another Episode coming out next week. I’ll leave it to be a surprise. Also, I’ve started doing a lot of Facebook streams. I do a lot of career intensives online, but these are more off-the-cuff. So, to be a part of that, you need to follow my public Facebook page. I’ll leave a link for that as well.   I’ll be back with a new Episode next week. Until then -- rock on!

On this Podcast, Allan McKay interviews Jason Scheier, a Conceptual Illustrator who has worked with a number of studios including DreamWorks Animation, Warner Brothers Feature Animation and Walt Disney Imagineering. His projects include Kung Fu Panda, Rise of the Guardians, The Croods, Battlefield 4 and many others. A graduate of CalState, Fullerton, Jason has also studied media arts and animation at the Art Institute of California and entertainment design at the Art Center College of Design. He brings his strong instincts for design, composition, color, and lighting and his experience in cinematography to his passion for virtual environment creation. He has also taught at the Art Center College of Design, Brainstorm School, Concept Design Academy, Laguna College of Art and Design, and Computer Graphics Masters Academy.   For full show notes visit http://www.allanmckay.com/75/

In this Episode, Allan McKay interviews Joaquin Baldwin, a CG Layout Supervisor for the Walt Disney Animation Studios, as well as a photographer and animator (www.joaquinbaldwin.com/). Joaquin has been working for Disney since 2010 where he’s been a part of films like Zootopia, Moana, Frozen, Wreck-It Ralph and many more. Joaquin’s short animated short films Sebastian’s Voodoo and Papiroflexia have earned him over 100 awards in festivals such as Cannes, Student Academy Awards, USA Film Festival, Cinanima. Joaquin holds a Masters in Animation from UCLA. Complete shownotes can be found at http://www.allanmckay.com/74/

Pixologic are the developers of Emmy award winning Z-Brush, the industry standard for sculpting and surfacing in 3D. Throughout this episode Allan talks with Paul Gaboury and Sol Blair about some recent announcements from Pixologic, as well as much of the in-depth history of Z-Brush and the CG industry. Loads of great insights and core knowledge shared, as well as lots of great laughs!   For in-depth notes check out http://www.allanmckay.com/73/    

Allan McKay interviews Mike Blum, an Emmy-nominated director who has won awards as a director, writer and producer. Prior to opening his boutique animation studio Pipsqueak Films, Mike worked as an executive and a supervisor at Walt Disney Feature Animation for over a decade. His Disney animation credits include Chicken Little, Lilo & Stitch, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and many more. Mike’s current studio Pipsqueak Films has completed animation projects for clients like Comedy Central, Netflix, DreamWorks TV, MTV and others. Mike is currently in development on his original series Enko the Eskimo which he sold to Cartoon Network. At the same time, he is directing and Executive Producing the animated series Super Slackers with David Silverman (The Simpsons). He also runs a live-action production company, Blumayan Films and as well as Our Next 4 Years, a volunteer organization staffed by over 250 animation professionals that create animated PSA’s countering the regressive policies of the current administration. In this Episode, Allan and Mike talk about artistic paths, pitfalls and challenges in the industry, as well as what it takes to be a successful artist. Mike Blum’s IMDb Page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089692/ Pipsqueak Films: http://www.pipsqueakfilms.com Our Next 4 Years: www.ournext4years.org Check out the full show notes at http://www.allanmckay.com/72/

Some of us make the mistake of thinking we can just 'go it alone' and not need guidance from others. This episode we break down the importance of mentors, but also how to find them. In addition, going beyond this and starting to target mentors in many parts of our life and career, building a braintrust to help as stay motivated, and give key advice, as well as help us see when we're F!@#'ing up and maybe don't even know it..   Check out the in-depth show notes @ http://www.allanmckay.com/71/ Also check out the December Live Action FX challenge at www.allanmckay.com/challenge/  

Episode 70 - Ash Thorp Interview Allan McKay interviews Ash Thorp, a graphic designer, illustrator, artist, and creative director for a multitude of media, including feature films, commercial enterprises, and print.   Ash has worked on graphics for Ender’s Game and Total Recall, as well as contributed to the design concepts for Spectre, Prometheus, X-Men First Class, Call of Duty and others. His first directorial debut started with the assembly of an international team for his Ghost in the Shell tribute, as well as the main title for OFFF Barcelona 2014. In 2015, he was requested to assemble an international team of designers and create the title sequence for FITC Tokyo. Later that year, Ash co-directed “Ares -- Our Greatest Adventure”, a promotional trailer for the feature film The Martian. Alongside with co-director Anthony Scott Burns, Ash created a concept short film Lost Boy, based on Ash’s graphic drawings. In this podcast, Ash and Allan about the entire process -- from pre- to post-production -- “step by step, frame by frame”.   Show Notes: Visit http://www.allanmckay.com/70/     Links: Lost Boy: https://vimeo.com/188650521 Ash Thorp’s Website: http://ashthorp.com/info Ash Thorp’s IMDb Page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4500808/ Ash Thorp’s Company Learn Squared, Inc.: https://www.learnsquared.com/   [-1:40:29] Allan: The origins of Lost Boy. It’s been a long journey. Do you want to talk about how it actually began? Ash: It started about 3 years ago. ImagineFX Magazine reached out to me to do a piece in their magazine. I was flattered. It was reassuring that I was on the right course. I asked them what I should draw. The theme was superheroes. I wanted to do my own Punisher but my wife advised me to do my own idea. She is always pushing me. [-1:39:01] I created the name Lost Boy because there were only so few windows on the sign inside the drawing [for the length of the title]. I didn’t attach a story at that time. [-1:38:21] I like to work organically and use the muse and the inspiration from the things that I love. I’ll binge on all kinds of things -- comics, novels -- until my own thing comes out, and then I twist it. [-1:37:38] My career was becoming more successful by that time. I loved helping other people with their projects, but I felt that I was missing out on what I really wanted to do: which is make my own stuff. So I decided to make my own thing. [-1:37:10] I started drawing every night. I shared those drawings with [my friend] Anthony Scott Burns [who is a director and visual effects artist]. He thought it was awesome, so we started forming a narrative. It went crazy from there. [-1:34:34] Anthony suggested we make our own comic book. [-1:34:21] Then I started developing another film called Spiral. I was having my own artistic Renaissance. Then Mischa Rozema and Jules Tervoort (from PostPanic Pictures, in Amsterdam) reached out to me to help them with the title sequence for their short film Sundays. They asked if I was developing anything at that time. I said I was. [-1:33:20] They asked me to put something together and pitch it to them. Anthony and I put together a pitch packet for Lost Boy. Mischa and Jules basically signed the dotted line right there and became our partners.   [-1:32:15] Allan: As artists, we’re always intrigued about how people work, what kind of pitfalls they fall into. Ash: I’ll do my best to paint an honest picture. [-1:31:37] We had to get the legal involved. I’m very keen on keeping the rights to the IP (Intellectual Property). Amsterdam has a different legal ramifications, and this is an American property. We needed to make sure we spoke the same language. Anthony and I own the rights and are co-creators of Lost Boy together. [-1:31:01] For me, it’s important for us to retain the creative on everything! Not that anybody would have bad intentions. Even Anthony and I have a contract together.   [-1:29:50] Allan: I agree, it’s such a critical thing. No one thinks of the legal stuff until shit hits the fan. The more prepared you are in the beginning (even when you’re an artists and you don’t want to think about the business stuff), the better. I’ve seen so many friendships go to shit. You partner up but if you don’t have that comfortable conversation in the beginning, that means there are no bounds set. By having those discussions and setting the responsibilities between you, you’ll be very clear and feel good moving forward. [-1:27:49] Ash: I grew up studying George Lucas and all those guys. When you make your own world, you have to share it. But those boundaries are really important. It was very important that Anthony and I retained the artistic rights. PostPanic was going to produce and help facilitate all the things that are needed (and they did an amazing job!) and Anthony and I would work to get the film to the level it needed to be. [-1:26:05] “If I can give any advice to anyone that’s listening, make sure that you have a lawyer or someone who understands contracts and you be clear about what you want. But lawyers create their own work, and you’ve got to be very careful about that.” [-1:25:18] When you make these things, nobody knows the value of them. They’re just an idea in the beginning and a bunch of drawings. But I value it. [-1:15:51] “You need to be very clear from the beginning. And that’s just Business 101. Business is cut black and white.”   [-1:22:26] Ash: “What I want to do in life is do the things I enjoy, with the people I enjoy. Being good at business just facilitates the longevity of doing such a thing. As an artist, I’m not inspired by doing business; but business becomes the art.” [-1:22:04] When I was young, the business stuff would kill me. The legal stuff, if you’re looking to create your own IP, you need to take it seriously. [-1:19:49] So, we finally got past the legal stuff. A lot of it is just talking, “You’re human, I’m human.” We got to a great place. We all wanted the same goal. [-1:19:15] Anthony and I met up in New York, on a job. We spent a day to storyboard the sequence and took the previs to PostPanic. We started doing location scouts. We originally wanted to shoot in Scotland or Iceland but ended up shooting in Spain (where Sergio Leon shot a lot of his Spaghetti Westerns). [-1:16:43] Then we found our two of our actors, formed our crew. It was all hands on deck at that point. [-1:15:10] I’ve done a couple of smaller directing jobs by that point; but I felt, “Oh shit! This is getting real!” [-1:14:40] Allan: Did you have an AD? Did PostPanic bring on its own people? Ash: Yes, they brought their own people. Anthony and I are very controlling. We met the DOP and the AD. [-1:12:36] “It’s all so multilayered. There is so much stuff that goes into this. Film productions are just intense.” [-1:10:32] Filmmaking is high stress, you have to be so ready. The level of madness on set is crazy. “Learning to work with DOP and [making sure] they’re seeing what you’re seeing and you are aligned.” Anthony and I had to live with the responsibility of it.   [-1:11:44] Allan: How long was preproduction? Ash: Oh, man, we lost a couple of months in legal, but that needed to be done. And then a month or so of writing and storyboarding. We spent quite a bit of time working with VFX on location (prosthetics, etc.) So 3 months, maybe?   [-1:07:07] Allan: What about production? How long were you shooting for, including pick-ups? Ash: We had no time for pick-ups, so we had to get it when we had to get it. I believe it was 4, maybe 5 nights. [-1:06:10] I think the tendency with our film is to say “This is like Mad Max or Sin City”. It’s not that. Anthony and I put so many reference PDF’s together: costumes, visual effects, VFX.   [-1:05:26] Allan: How long was the turnaround for doing post? And also, how much was you and how much was PostPanic? Ash: The way it works for PostPanic, this is a passion project for them. They constantly had their own work, so post-production for Lost Boy took quite a long time, a year, I think, from start to finish. [-1:04:37] We had a very defined thing. So in getting there and figuring out every small detail, PostPanic would have to do several simulations in Houdini, and render those, and that all takes a long time. Their staff is anywhere from 15 to 40 people, depending on what they had going on. [-1:03:32] I stayed more hands-off than I usually would because PostPanic did such a great job. “As an artist, I’ve learned so much through this filmmaking process: of making something out of nothing, step by step, frame by frame.” [-1:02:27] Toward the end, Anthony ended up putting the film together. We stayed in my studio studio for six days nonstop, finishing the grade (using DaVinci) and visual effects. We even did sound design editions ([some in my garage, to my wife’s amusement]). But mostly, PostPanic cared for all of this stuff.   [-59:55] Allan: With casting, how easy or hard was it for you to find the right people? You’re so passionate, trying to find the right person -- how did that go? Ash: We had two rounds of casting and we found both of our actors after the two rounds. We wrote this thing keeping in mind that it wouldn’t require heavy acting because we knew we couldn’t afford well known actors. You start writing dialogue in there -- it starts getting very difficult. We wanted to minimize all the risk. [-58:49] For the character of Lost Boy, we were looking for a face we could light: The way the nose line connects and the way the bottom jaw area works, the way the light cascades. We wanted him to feel like a predator, a monster, a Frankenstein. For Xeh, she had to be a very beautiful person that you could sympathize with. [-58:10] “Casting is so unique. You have to really step outside your body and look at it from multiple different angles.” [-57:45] We saw hundreds of faces and we asked them to do the action and send us their tape. We met the actors over Skype. The beauty of casting these days, you don’t have to be there [in person]. They can send us videos and the proof is in the pudding. I know Ridley Scott has cast his films over Skype.   [-55:47] Allan: How did you typically break down each night on location? What shots were you doing on which particular night? Ash: We wanted to start with the harder stuff. It’s really hard to do action, especially action slow mo. We tried to do the harder stuff in the beginning, just in case we ran out of time. We started with Xeh’s running, which you get a bunch of flack for: “It’s too slow!” Allan: These days, the attention span to capture someone is 8 seconds. You’re making something that’s a filter. You’ve weeded out the people who aren’t your audience. Ash: Yeah, I don’t want them. It’s just about finding the tribe. [-53:00] We did the death scenes at the end.   [-52:07] Allan: Did you have any moment of self-doubt, those inner voices saying it wasn’t going to work out? Ash: Yeah! The whole project. The whole time. When I’m sitting at home drawing, I don’t have too much doubt because I can control it. But when I’m asking all these people to do this thing -- an image I have in my head -- it’s quite complicated. [-51:29] “It’s nerve wracking to make film. It’s not easy. It’s the hardest form of art because you’re doing all the things, it’s everything. It’s all visceral.” I was constantly doubting it, I just wouldn’t show it. [-43:05] You have to have a good crew to protect you and shield you. The process is so intense, it takes so much stamina. [-50:01] “Self-doubt is part of the art though. It keeps me grounded, it keeps me alert and aware.”   [-50:09] Allan: How do you deal with it? Ash: “You’ve got to let a little bit of it come in, deal with it but then move forward.” A director’s job isn’t being good at art: It’s about communicating your ideas and having a good taste; and facilitate the best abilities in your teammates. [-49:21] You get personally attacked for the final product. I wouldn’t have it any other way though. “I think great art comes from a freakout moment. That’s when great work is being made.”   [45:19] It’s a part of it. If you want to be a strong person, you’ve got to deal with both. “I love the idea of living a life that’s filled with challenges so that I can understand what I’m made of and how far to push myself. The struggle is part of it. It’s part of the journey I like the most, I think.”   [-43:20] Allan: “I truly believe you’ve got to get out of your comfort zone. If you’re always comfortable, then how are you going to grow?” [-42:06] Ash: Going to from drawing in my office to being to Spain with a bunch of people I’ve never met or worked with and trusting them; the level of chaos and level of the unknown -- I would never change any of it! This is all coming from inspiration of all these comic book artists. I feel very privileged to do so.   [-40:07] Allan: Do you want to talk about what’s happened since you’ve launched Lost Boy? Ash: Sure. At every stage, the film changes. The moment you release your film and release it to the world, it’s no longer yours. It’s a very sad time. You never know: You might think you have something special, but maybe you don’t. [-39:13] The overall response has been amazing, super positive. I find it interesting about some artists though: They are so shitty to one another. If they only knew how difficult it is to make this stuff, instead of making some stupid comment. [-37:54] Since releasing the film, we’ve done a ton of meetings, met a lot of interesting people. We wrote a treatment for an episodic treatment version. But part of what Lost Boy is that it’s about questioning our programming. It’s interesting to see the repetitious programing of Hollywood. They don’t know what to do with our film. [-36:06] “Trying to make something that’s different and unique, it just takes a lot more risk.” And no one can buy something they can’t see, so you have to sell it; and that takes a lot of money and effort. So, we’ll see who wants to invest and make something bigger. [-34:33] The goal for me is that if we’ve gone this far, there is no reason we can’t go further, especially with Netflix, and Amazon, [and even Kickstarter, for fundraising]. [-32:15] “What’s the point of making something if you can’t have creative control?” [-30:24] “If you want to do something, just go and do it! I’m so sick and tired of asking for, ‘Hey, can I go make my thing?’ Fuck that! Go DO it!” “So many directors get caught up in how complex it is -- in their career -- and all the layers of social bullshit that have to comb through.” [-29:15] “Be real with yourself that fact that tomorrow isn’t promised. The time that you have is the most amazing thing that you have and you can only enjoy it while you have it. So take that seriously. So, GO! Try it! Chase your dreams, don’t ask for permission!” [-27:57] It’s not easy but it is possible. [-25:41] When you say you’re going to do something, it often feels like you’ve already done it. But talk is cheap. When you actually make something, you can talk about it -- but then you actually have to go do it. That’s very difficult. [-25:08] “If at the end of the day, you don’t have something to show for it, then what are you doing?” [-20:05] “If you want to go somewhere in life, a place or a destination, you have to ride it out, be about it, talk about -- and back it up with your actions. It’s about triggering it and being action oriented.” [-22:09] [Also], Iron sharpens iron. I surround myself with people [who make me stronger]. I’ve been showing my friends Lost Boy -- for a year! -- and it’s blown them away with the amount of work it takes. They also help me see things differently.   [-17:21] Allan: Were you strategic with the launch? I have friends who are feature film directors, and the success [of their films] usually comes down to the execution. Ash: This has been my own design. Months back, I talked to my friends about designing the countdown, get a newsletter, get people aware. Lost Boy got launched on Vimeo, nothing crazy. [-15:03] I have a huge list of friends and artists I admire, so I sent them the link. I’ve shared it with people. The news spread naturally. [-14:01] “Again, you have to be really cognizant, you have to wear many hats. You have to be a business person. You have to be aware of the IP laws.”   [-13:17] Allan: You were shooting on a RED camera? Was it the DRAGON? Ash: Yes, I believe it was the RED EPIC, shot 4K at 120. We wanted to shoot with Anamorphic Lens because it’s the best. It just opens up everything. But as you know, it’s a pain in the ass with visual effects.   [-11:47] Allan: Where you shooting on 50 millimeter? Ash: I’m not a huge wide lens fan. I love 45 to 80, that’s my favorite range. I believe we used anywhere from 80 to 50 to 45-ish mil.   [-10:48] Allan: Any books that you could recommend that you’ve read? Ash: Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday. Robert Greene’s Mastery. I’m in need of some good fiction right now. I’ve finished Stephen King’s Black House. I’m going to read No Country for Old Men next, by Cormac McCarthy. (It’s my favorite Coen Brothers’ film.) Oh, and Eat that Frog: 21 Great Ways to Stop Procrastinating [by Brian Tracy] is great!   [-08:29] Ash: “It’s easy for me to say all these things. I’m skipping over a lot of hardship and a lot of pissed off times and anger. The overall experience was quite good. It’s easy to say, being done with it, “It’s so easy.” It’s not! It’s going to be very hard! You know you’re doing it right when it’s really frustrating and you are filled self-doubt, but you have an inkling of hope.” “Go try something different. Don’t do it for anyone else but yourself. Don’t ask for permission!”

Andre Cantarel is a LA based CG Supervisor originally from Germany, he's worked on films such as 2012, Whitehouse Down, Independence Day Resurgence and dozens of others. He has a ridiculous attention to detail in his work, and it shows on everything he touches. This episode discusses everything from Andre's work history, to behind the scenes on many of the projects he's worked on, his early career as well as personal projects and health. In general this episode has been a great insight into what's involved to pull off some of the biggest visual effect film projects. Check out the show notes at http://www.allanmckay.com/69/  

This episode dives deep into the topic of pricing and going after what you're worth. This is actually a snippet of a live webinar with the FX TD Mentorship which we touched briefly on the subject of pricing. This conversation started as a question proposed "How much money could I expect to make in Los Angeles?" and grew into a much bigger topic about pricing and getting what you're worth. This episode was not intentionally made for release to the public and covers a lot of subjects no holds barred. Check it out and share this around with those who you think will benefit from this episode! Check out the show notes at http://www.allanmckay.com/68/ Don't forget to also sign up for the live career intensive December 7th! Where we will hold a live webinar and go over many core subjects as well as talk live with Allan McKay about many career related material that will push our careers into overdrive as we prepare for 2017!